News AMD working with law enforcement after reports of massive data breach — hack may have uncovered future product details

[COLGeek]

Folks, please stay on topic. Thank you.

 

[bit_user]

When you are in the same business many things can be inferred by what your competitors are ordering at your mutual suppliers / partners, how much they are paying for it, what new infrastructure they are building out, what patents they have submitted, what permits they applied for, etc. You don't really need to actually spy on them to get this info.

Other than patents and possibly permits, none of the rest is public information.

I expect big customers have NDAs with their suppliers not to share that info with their competitors. Definitely, customers and partners will not be privy to things like roadmaps without having to sign a NDA. Obviously, that doesn't prevent 100% of leaks from happening, but it does a good enough job that these companies at least find it worth the trouble.

 

[PEnns]

So, exactly what are you saying?


Again, the legal liability they would face from having anything to do with it isn't worth any possible advantage they could gain by it.

You live a dream world where industrial espionage never happens. Time to wake up and take off the pink glasses.

 

[bit_user]

You live a dream world where industrial espionage never happens. Time to wake up and take off the pink glasses.

If you're so sure it happens, where's your evidence?

 

[CmdrShepard]

If you're so sure it happens, where's your evidence?

It is in his government's top secret drawer, filed under "$ForeignCountry bad, trust us, we are the good guys".

 

[PEnns]

If you're so sure it happens, where's your evidence?

Seriously? Are you really implying no company ever spied on / stole trade secrets from another?? What do you think the majority of cases of companies suing each other are about??

Have you heard of Google? Use it!

 

[bit_user]

Seriously? Are you really implying no company ever spied on / stole trade secrets from another??

I didn't say it never happened. You seemed to imply that it's happening all the time, which is a very different claim.

What do you think the majority of cases of companies suing each other are about??

Patent infringement, breach of contract - that sort of thing. I'm not a corporate lawyer, but I haven't really heard much about corporate espionage.

The only case that sticks out in my memory is when some employees got busted for taking IP with them when they switched jobs, but there was never any evidence it happened under the direction of their new employer, as opposed to simply being a way they were trying to gain some advantage at their new job. If they were being advised on it, in any way, they sure did a bad job of covering their tracks. Also, you'd think they would've thrown the new employer under the bus, because it fired them and they no longer had any reason not to put the blame on it if they could've.

Have you heard of Google? Use it!

Tell us a few of your favorites, then.

 

[PEnns]

Glad to oblige, since you don't want to put a hole in your own arguments by searching online. Here are just a few from the first 10 search results:

Lawsuit accuses Nvidia of stealing trade secrets — perpetrator busted with a screenshot of stolen code

Tesla takes legal action against former supplier over theft of trade secrets

Lawsuit over theft of UnitedHealth’s trade secrets settled out of court

Huawei accused of stealing trade secrets, spying in Pakistan

 

[bit_user]

Here are just a few from the first 10 search results:

Please don't waste my time & yours by making such a faithless effort that you don't even read your own points.

Lawsuit accuses Nvidia of stealing trade secrets — perpetrator busted with a screenshot of stolen code

I outlined exactly this type of case, above. There's no evidence Nvidia knew he was bringing stolen IP, when they hired him.

Tesla takes legal action against former supplier over theft of trade secrets

This is a case of NDA violation, not industrial espionage. Tesla provided access to the IP to the supplier, who then made improper use of it by embodying it in equipment they sold to other customers and incorporating some of it in their own patents.

Lawsuit over theft of UnitedHealth’s trade secrets settled out of court

Again, we have a case of employees that allegedly left a company with some of its IP. In this case, they happened to be executives, but a key difference is that they founded their own company rather than going to work for a competitor.

Huawei accused of stealing trade secrets, spying in Pakistan

This is a weird case, because the complaint is between Huawei and one of its subcontractors:

The eight software systems BES developed for the project included proprietary code, designs, diagrams and other information that are "valuable trade secrets at the core of BES's business," the complaint said.

Huawei officials allegedly demanded that BES send this information to the company in China for testing, and BES said it agreed to the demand but terminated its authorization to use the technology after Huawei revoked its access to the testing laboratory.

The complaint said Huawei has yet to return any of the confidential software design tools or uninstall the software, as BES said it had agreed to.

BES said Huawei later demanded it install its data-aggregation software - used by Pakistani law enforcement to collect and analyze "sensitive data from different sources and government agencies" - in its Chinese lab, "this time not merely for testing purposes but with full access to data at the Lahore Safe City project." BES said it agreed, under threat of termination and withheld payments, after Huawei said it had approval from the Pakistani government.
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It sounds like a subcontractor dispute where there was a mismatched set of expectations over who would own and control the resulting IP. It's made more salacious by the involvement of geopolitics and a 3rd country.

There's still not one clear example here of corporate espionage, where one competitor tries to steal information about another. I expect most cases that exist are transnational and involve a certain country we can probably all guess. That's really more of a case of international espionage, since it involves a government.

Since you cannot provide even a single clear example of company A spying on company B, as you alleged Intel or Nvidia are doing to AMD, it seems you don't actually know of any.

Again, please don't waste my time & yours on such faithless claims and arguments.

 

[PEnns]

I knew it was a bad idea discussing anything with people who have no clue and can't admit they're wrong and wish to remain steeped in ignorance.

You're a master at splitting hairs and obfuscation. Have a good day

 

[bit_user]

I knew it was a bad idea discussing anything with people who have no clue and can't admit they're wrong and wish to remain steeped in ignorance.

If you had a clue, you did a lousy job of demonstrating it. Blame yourself, not me.

You're a master at splitting hairs and obfuscation.

Nope. The topic was corporate espionage. The context was AMD getting hacked and you suggesting one of their competitors was behind it. That's not something you can just pivot away from. It demands supporting examples, which you utterly failed to provide.

 

[COLGeek]

We're done here now folks. Thanks to those who stayed on topic.

As a reminder, civility and respect for others is expected of all members.

Thank you.