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You heard it here first: Black Friday 2024 has arrived!
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alextheblue
Distinguished
- Apr 3, 2001
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Absolutely. Those are much better comparisons and would show that AMD is saving you another $30 roughly for a decent aftermarket cooler. Wraith is good enough for anyone that isn't overclocking or going for a silent build (for silence I went all-Noctua myself, but long-term reliability played a role in that choice too).
Granted AMD invited the tougher comparison on themselves but it still held it's own. I wish they would bump the quality of the fan up a bit but I understand they still have to hit price points. Maybe they'll offer different variants of Wraith in the future, and stick a better fan (with an improved bearing design) in their higher-end models (such as Zen FX). Offer OEM models without heatsinks for a little less to please enthusiasts who are going high-end cooling.
I'm working with a very expensive special paint to have always a fixed emissive factor on each surface (seen as lighter points on the measured area). It can be be black but it must not, if you have the right paint
This paint was tested from factory and it is matte AND transparent (to prevent my samples, black color is bad for electrical circuits). I know the emissive AND transmissive of this paint to get exact results. This camera and equipment is also used in Globalfoundries process monitoring and I got a lot of technical and theoretical help from the manufacturer
I wrote a longer review about infrared measuring with all this basics and background info and hope it will be translated sometime. You have always four or five factors: emissive, angle, possible reflections, temperature and optional also transmissive. Alls this FLIR pics out of the box on a few sites are funny, but mostly unusable
For example:
I used a special tape with known emissive factor, the right factor for the metal at the current temperature (it is changing a lot between 20°C and 100°C!) and the factory default of 1.0 (like in 99% of all other reviews) for better comparision:
All this results with the wrong emissive are useless und mostly too low
The idea behind the Macho was Don's statement about the price range of comparable products, not more.
The Hyper 212 is only one cooler one of tons of other very similar coolers.
Especially in Europe we have a very big selection of such mid-range coolers.
The Hyper 212 is only one cooler one of tons of other very similar coolers.
Especially in Europe we have a very big selection of such mid-range coolers.
Much closer is relative, between the Macho and the EVO are only 9 EUR difference in Germany and the Macho is a lot quieter. The 212 EVO is bad for his price in Europe or better: not attractive enough.
Thermalright Macho Revision B > 40 EUR
Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO > 31 EUR
AMD Wraith Cooler < 10 EUR (OEM price for AMD)
This isn't direct comparable in both cases.
techgeek
Splendid
- Apr 11, 2004
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FormatC :
Much closer is relative, between the Macho and the EVO are only 9 EUR difference in Germany and the Macho is a lot quieter. The 212 EVO is bad for his price in Europe or better: not attractive enough.
Thermaright Macho Revision B > 40 EUR
Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO > 31 EUR
AMD Wraith Cooler < 10 EUR (OEM price for AMD)
This isn't direct comparable in both cases.
Wow that is a terrible price for the Hyper 212 EVO. Here in Canada it's $39.99 right now, but I've seen it for $34.99. Even at $40 that amounts to 26 EUR.
I've got a few Hyper 212 EVO's on various systems, and though subjective (ie: not measured), I find them very quiet.
As for comparing the Wraith versus price, that's not really fair either. You are comparing estimated OEM cost versus retail cost. If you were able to just purchase the Wraith it'd probably have at least a 100% mark up putting it in direct competition cost wise with the Hyper 212 EVO.
And (I know, don't start a sentence with and) lastly the reason I thought the Hyper 212 EVO would make a good comparison is it's popularity. I've recommended it and seen it recommended on these very forums hundreds of times. Since there are so many owners of this cooler, they could make a direct correlation between their own experience and what they could expect if they were to switch to the Wraith (assuming they have an AMD system of course).
Until this article, I'd never even heard of the Macho and I used to be a huge Thermalright fan. I've still got an original Thermalright Ultra, XP-90 and XP-120. All of which were excellent coolers in their own right at the time. However I wouldn't have thought to use them to compete against an OEM cooler like this due to their cost.
Anyway it was still a good article. It'll be nice to see a cooler bundled with a CPU that isn't garbage. Though they've been engineered to be sufficient, there is rarely and headroom and they are extremely noisy. Hopefully this will be the start of a trend and Intel will follow suit.
cst1992
Splendid
- Nov 8, 2013
- 3,903
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No worries.
It all comes down to demand and supply. Here in India the price of the 212 Evo is INR 2899 at the lowest, which comes down to $43 and CAD$59. That's because very few people(less than 1% of the people in the US) would go for this particular cooler. The market for gaming CPUs is very narrow and even narrower for high end motherboards and overclockable CPUs with aftermarket coolers.
I think in the UK as well prices are very high. That must be due to high import duty though.
techgeek
Splendid
- Apr 11, 2004
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I used to work overseas (Yemen) and worked with many Indians. I was surprised to find how little there is available for computer enthusiasts in India. Also it was very surprising to find out how difficult it is to get legitimate Windows licenses there. Many of my Indian friends told me that most software (including Windows) is pirated software. I don't know how many Windows CD/DVD/Product keys I purchased and gave them.
From what I understand though, things are changing now. There is more demand for quality computer parts in India so things are changing there slowly.
The 212 EVO isn't popular here. As you see: other markets, other coices and naturally other prices.
I had two reasons to select the Macho (I'm doing all with a reason or an idea behind )
- It was an exact landing on this 50 Dollar point from Don's presentation
- This design is perfect to show the difference between an asymetric and BIG tower cooler and a top-down-blower
Since all this asymetric designs are so popular, nobody is thinking about the mainboard compoments! The memory modules mostly blocks each airflow and all this low-speed fans are not producing enough airflow for VRM and component cooling. I've discussed this (and the water cooling trend) with a few mainboard designers and got some internal info about the follows. I can't publish internal numbers of RMA issues but the MTBF of all related components is decreasing dramatically due such constructions. It makes no sense to buy a cheap mainboard and cover all this cost-down components with a big (and expensive) tower cooler. Personally I like big top-down-blower coolers or better a real water cooling solution of all related components plus a minimum of airflow in the case. I'm proofing each build with the IR cam to prevent me before unawaited damages
I had two reasons to select the Macho (I'm doing all with a reason or an idea behind
)- It was an exact landing on this 50 Dollar point from Don's presentation
- This design is perfect to show the difference between an asymetric and BIG tower cooler and a top-down-blower
Since all this asymetric designs are so popular, nobody is thinking about the mainboard compoments! The memory modules mostly blocks each airflow and all this low-speed fans are not producing enough airflow for VRM and component cooling. I've discussed this (and the water cooling trend) with a few mainboard designers and got some internal info about the follows. I can't publish internal numbers of RMA issues but the MTBF of all related components is decreasing dramatically due such constructions. It makes no sense to buy a cheap mainboard and cover all this cost-down components with a big (and expensive) tower cooler. Personally I like big top-down-blower coolers or better a real water cooling solution of all related components plus a minimum of airflow in the case. I'm proofing each build with the IR cam to prevent me before unawaited damages
Non-Euclidean
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- Nov 5, 2009
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I think you are dead on, and most people were only thinking about protecting the CPU.
Its going to take a series of MB failures for things to change, and for top-down coolers to get popular again.
Your IR pictures have opened a bunch of eyes on heat/cooling issues.
So it sounds like you have 2 types of articles you could follow up on:
1) an article with different design coolers, to see their impact (WC/top-down/tower/other).
2) an article comparing popular coolers, to see how peoples favorites really perform. For both water and air cooled.
Its going to take a series of MB failures for things to change, and for top-down coolers to get popular again.
Your IR pictures have opened a bunch of eyes on heat/cooling issues.
So it sounds like you have 2 types of articles you could follow up on:
1) an article with different design coolers, to see their impact (WC/top-down/tower/other).
2) an article comparing popular coolers, to see how peoples favorites really perform. For both water and air cooled.
Casecutter
Distinguished
- Jan 15, 2010
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I to would say I'd rather have seen it go against $25-30 coolers, like a Hyper 212 Evo (tower) and a Cryorig C7 (flat). I also would said a little general OC add in to see if the Wraith has any room to stretch it legs as it has a fixed fan speed. But from what I see here there not much reason to use a aftermarket cooler in most general builds.
techgeek
Splendid
- Apr 11, 2004
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FormatC :
The 212 EVO isn't popular here. As you see: other markets, other coices and naturally other prices.
I had two reasons to select the Macho (I'm doing all with a reason or an idea behind )
- It was an exact landing on this 50 Dollar point from Don's presentation
- This design is perfect to show the difference between an asymetric and BIG tower cooler and a top-down-blower
Since all this asymetric designs are so popular, nobody is thinking about the mainboard compoments! The memory modules mostly blocks each airflow and all this low-speed fans are not producing enough airflow for VRM and component cooling. I've discussed this (and the water cooling trend) with a few mainboard designers and got some internal info about the follows. I can't publish internal numbers of RMA issues but the MTBF of all related components is decreasing dramatically due such constructions. It makes no sense to buy a cheap mainboard and cover all this cost-down components with a big (and expensive) tower cooler. Personally I like big top-down-blower coolers or better a real water cooling solution of all related components plus a minimum of airflow in the case. I'm proofing each build with the IR cam to prevent me before unawaited damages
I had two reasons to select the Macho (I'm doing all with a reason or an idea behind
)- It was an exact landing on this 50 Dollar point from Don's presentation
- This design is perfect to show the difference between an asymetric and BIG tower cooler and a top-down-blower
Since all this asymetric designs are so popular, nobody is thinking about the mainboard compoments! The memory modules mostly blocks each airflow and all this low-speed fans are not producing enough airflow for VRM and component cooling. I've discussed this (and the water cooling trend) with a few mainboard designers and got some internal info about the follows. I can't publish internal numbers of RMA issues but the MTBF of all related components is decreasing dramatically due such constructions. It makes no sense to buy a cheap mainboard and cover all this cost-down components with a big (and expensive) tower cooler. Personally I like big top-down-blower coolers or better a real water cooling solution of all related components plus a minimum of airflow in the case. I'm proofing each build with the IR cam to prevent me before unawaited damages
I remember back in the day (cause I'm old), motherboards came with small clip on fans for cooling the VRM's if you chose to go with water cooling. I also liked the top down coolers, again back in the day, I purchased (as I said before) the Thermalright XP-90 and XP-120. Both excellent coolers though I liked the 120 more, bigger fan. However the trend now is tower coolers and AiO (or closed loop) water cooling.
I now have a Glacer 240L from Cooler Master. I have a decent case (original Cosmos) with good airflow and a motherboard (ASUS Maximus Hero VI) with good heatsinks/heatpipes on the VRM's so my VRM's are cool to the touch even when stressed.
My question is this:
How many Gamers run their systems day to day as in your test environment?
I run SETI on 5 cores which leaves the other 3 for whatever. SETI also processes data using the Video card, which generates more heat. I have 32gb of Mem. On a typical day I run 2 instances of World if Warcraft ON TOP of SETI so I'm pushing some serious heat. I'm always looking for better cooling but so far have not been able to keep it consistent.
My temp monitor shows I'm running around 36 c just running SETI and browsing online. When I add WoW to the mix it jumps about 10 - 15 degrees depending on the room temp. I'm still looking at water cooling, but even after buying everything but tubing and connectors, I'm still leary.
How many Gamers run their systems day to day as in your test environment?
I run SETI on 5 cores which leaves the other 3 for whatever. SETI also processes data using the Video card, which generates more heat. I have 32gb of Mem. On a typical day I run 2 instances of World if Warcraft ON TOP of SETI so I'm pushing some serious heat. I'm always looking for better cooling but so far have not been able to keep it consistent.
My temp monitor shows I'm running around 36 c just running SETI and browsing online. When I add WoW to the mix it jumps about 10 - 15 degrees depending on the room temp. I'm still looking at water cooling, but even after buying everything but tubing and connectors, I'm still leary.
cub_fanatic
Honorable
- Nov 21, 2012
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If they would have made it a more standard 120mm, it would have definitely competed in noise vs a $30 or $40 cooler but the 80mm cuts down on shipping and storage space. As it is, it is a great freebie if they put them in all their CPUs of the next gen architecture. One of the things that sucks about the little round Intel cooler is that you can't upgrade the fan. On this, you can spend a few extra bucks on a real nice aftermarket 80mm fan like the NF-R8 from Noctua (~$10) if the noise really bothers you and probably knock a few dbs off right there while still getting decent OC headroom. A $10 upgrade to this cooler is a much better value than buying another entire $25-30 cooler.
Michael Bednarz
Reputable
- Mar 24, 2014
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I swear that cooler is the same as the one included with my old socket 939 Opteron 64 Dual Core 165 I just listed on ebay this week. Great cooler for a stock cooler, but I went to a Rosewill 90mm fan cooler and got quieter and cooler. BUT, did overclock that 1800mhz Opty on it to 2850 stable. Noisy, but stable.
Benjiwenji
Distinguished
- Dec 8, 2013
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