AMD XP 3000+ Benchmarks

slvr_phoenix · Feb 12, 2003

knownalien, where the heck do you get your prices? They're all nuts. So let's turn your insane numbers into something more realistic (and use more realistic parts):
(Using all retail parts with prices from pricewatch...)

A7N8X + AXP2800 + 2x256MB Corsair CAS2 PC3200 = $666
$113 + $387 + $166 = $666
(Freaky! It's the PC of the beast!)

P4T533-C + P4 2.8GHz + 2x256MB Samsung 32ns PC1066 = $710
$155 + $379 + $176 = $710

For a difference of a whole wopping $44.

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Or we can go the extreme high-end route:

A7N8X Deluxe + AXP3000 + 2x256MB Corsair CAS2 PC3200 = $903
$135 + $602 + $166 = $903

P4G8X + P4 3.06GHz + 2x256MB Corsair CAS2 PC3200 = $1012
$216 + $630 + $166 = $1012

For a difference of only $109. (And considering the review at ExtremeTech, that P4 system is well worth the price difference.)

What I found really sad when looking these things up is that the retail P4 2.8GHz costs less than the retail AXP 2800+. Ouch. That's gotta hurt AMD fanboys.

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slvr_phoenix · Feb 12, 2003

I'm having trouble believing that I just read four pages of posts in this thread and no-one has commented about this.

That's because we aren't just talking about THG's review. Go check out the review at <A HREF="http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,873603,00.asp" target="_new">ExtremeTech</A>.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The vast majority of P4 buyers are buying DDR systems (I'm a system builder/retailer in Australia). P4 buyers who read an article like this and then go out and buy a P4 DDR system thinking that they're are buying the superior CPU are being misled; albeit by their own lack of understanding of the situation.

I disagree with your use of the word 'misled' at all. It is not the responsability of a reseller to educate consumers. Their responsability is only to provide products and services. It is the responsability of the consumer to make sure that they understand the products and services. I the consumer shirks their responsability to make an educated purchase, than they deserve what they get. There is no misleading. There is only an act of stupidity on the consumer's part.

You don't buy a house without researching and comparing houses. You don't buy a car without researching and comparing cars. And you don't buy a computer without researching and comparing computers. It's just that simple. Yet way too many PC consumers who would research and compare houses and cars won't take the time to research and compare computers. It's a strange phenominon, but it's hardly misleading on anyone's part.

And really, someone could just as easily come along and pick up a really cheap AXP2200+ system, running on a motherboard with CAS3 PC100 RAM and an onboard video decelerator. I've seen tons of crappy systems like this for sale online. (Both Intel and AMD really.) So it's not even an Intel phenominon. Per PC purchase AMD suffers from it just as badly, just not as many people buy AMD PCs, so you hear about it less from AMD purchasers. Percentage-wise though, it's really about the same amount of consumer stupidity as far as I can figure.

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knownalien · Feb 12, 2003

i used newegg.com's prices. pricewatch may get you a low price, but you have to go to it to actually see what you are getting. Newegg had an asus board for $113, but it was refurbished. Besides, pricewatch may find the lowest price but not everyone shops that way (some of us have nice paying jobs and can afford quality retailers vs. someone who "will get back to you in a week"). some of us prefer established online retailers, and not some shack that just started last night! Your post was a joke. gee, why not just go to ebay and do all your shopping!!! I'm sure you'll get a low price. They have a "Buy Now" feature so that you don't have to compete with anyone. You might like that. :lol

p.s. god2u, seems like you insist on making my own points your own. I fail to understand the points of your posts. Reading your posts was like listening to the Bush/gore debates. How are you differing from what I am already saying??!!! Here's a little clue about the real world: benchmarks are only the beginning. Real life might give different numbers all together. so measuring up even occasionally very nearly means real world equality. You see, the hottest chick (or if you like, man) may actually make the worst wife.

slvr_phoenix · Feb 12, 2003

knownalien, go cry me a river. Obviously you're not capable of using something as simple as <A HREF="http://www.resellerratings.com" target="_new">ResellerRatings</A> to check up on the quality of a vendor from pricewatch. Here's a little clue, Newegg.com is not the only quality retailer to ever exist. But if you want to throw money away, that's your choice. Some of us are smart enough to do a little research and save a little money. And then there's you.

That aside though, you still haven't managed to actually refute my post in any way, shape, or form. Casually tossing it aside as 'a joke' stands up in a debate about as much as Rosie Odonnell stands up for the NRA. The only thing that's been a joke so far have been your pathetic attempts at rebuttals. So do please try explaining just why you think that an AXP2800+ is not comparable to a P4 2.8GHz, that is, if you can. It's okay if you can't. We'll understand. We know it's hard for you.

Speaking of jokes, "Here's a little clue about the real world: benchmarks are only the beginning." was a real laugher. I know it's hard for you to understand, knownalien, so I'll make it easy for you. You know those benchmarks with names like "Quake 3 Arena", "mp3 Makers Platinium", "Pinnacle Studio 8.3.18", and "3D Studio Max 5.1" (to name a few)? Guess what...they are 'real world' programs, not synthetic benchmarks. So maybe the next time you go to say something that you think is intelligent, you should first stop to actually think.

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b00ga · Feb 12, 2003

Earlier today in another forum I debated this same topic. Everyone likes to say and act like the AMD can match the P4 in most tests at equal ratings. Well, I did this for Anands review - Taking into account the benches WON and by HOW MUCH 😉

AMD
General Usage/Office Performance = 10% faster
General Usage Performance = 1% faster
Unreal Tournament 2003 = 5% faster
Unreal Tournament 2003 = 5% faster
Lightwave 3D 7.5 - sunset = 20% faster

P4
Content Creation Performance = 20% faster
Internet Content Creation Performance = 25% faster
3DMark 2001 SE = 1% faster
Quke III Arena = 10% faster
Jedi Knight = 3% faster
Comanche 4 = 9% faster
MPEG-4 Video Encoding Performance = 35% FASTER
Windows Media 9 Encoding Performance = 23% faster
Quicktime 6.0 Pro Encoding Performance = 1% faster
3DSMAX R5 - SinglePipe2.max = 35% FASTER
3DSMAX R5 - Underwater_Environment_Finished.max = 30% FASTER
3DSMAX R5 - 3dsmax5_rays.max = 2% Faster
3DSMAX R5 - CBALLS2.max = 30% FASTER
3DSMAX R5 - vol_light2.max = 26% FASTER
Maya 4.0.1 - rendertest.ma = 5% Faster
Lightwave 3D 7.5 - raytrace = 35% FASTER
Lightwave 3D 7.5 - radiosity_reflective_things = 83% FASTER!!!

I mean, Damn! P4 stomps it. Sure its clocked faster, but as someone said already what is it 40 to 100 bucks more? And to me there are more things than Speed to look at, stability, compatibility, how software devs respond to new CPUs, hell even HEAT! The P4 wins all of those categories.

The rating of this CPU should at a max have been 2800+

knownalien · Feb 12, 2003

knownalien, go cry me a river. Obviously you're not capable of using something as simple as ResellerRatings to check up on the quality of a vendor from pricewatch. Here's a little clue, Newegg.com is not the only quality retailer to ever exist. But if you want to throw money away, that's your choice. Some of us are smart enough to do a little research and save a little money. And then there's you.

That aside though, you still haven't managed to actually refute my post in any way, shape, or form. Casually tossing it aside as 'a joke' stands up in a debate about as much as Rosie Odonnell stands up for the NRA. The only thing that's been a joke so far have been your pathetic attempts at rebuttals. So do please try explaining just why you think that an AXP2800+ is not comparable to a P4 2.8GHz, that is, if you can. It's okay if you can't. We'll understand. We know it's hard for you.

I have no idea what the point of the first part of your post was meant to say. I'll go to Cambodia and pull out an XP2800 from some idiot's computer for you and sell it to you for $10 bucks, so meet me at Ebay: username "I Might Sell Crap, and Maybe Not". What's your point?? Of course newegg aint the only horse out there.

Now his the ripper for the 2nd part of your post: I already think the XP2800 is comparable to the P4 2.8!!! Have you read nothing that I have posted previously in this thread?! In fact, i was making a slim argument to god2u that the XP2800 is at times equal to the P4 3.06. And as for those benchmarks, I don't use any of those programs . . . so somehow I have a computer before me and yet it somehow manages to not be "doing anything" even as I type this to you. Explaining this to you again is insulting to the both of us, so I will leave it at that. Benchmarks are nice to look at, but they don't mean everything and certainly are not the sole basis on which one makes a decision as far as the next computer purchase is concerned.

b00ga · Feb 12, 2003

Well, If performance, cost, heat, stability, and industry support arnt issues for buying a CPU - what is?

slvr_phoenix · Feb 12, 2003

I have no idea what the point of the first part of your post was meant to say.

Well I'm sorry that you can't follow a simple conversation. I'll try to lay it out for you so that even you can follow it.

I said that your prices were too high. You said that my post was a joke because Pricewatch is only full of rip-off artists and the only reputable merchant is newegg. I called you on it, pointing out how the simple use of resellerratings can weed the rip-off artists from the reputable resellers and thus get you better prices than just always sticking with newegg. Now you, completely stuck for any response other than "Duh, me no understand." try to weasel your way out of the shat that you've been flinging.

Now his the ripper for the 2nd part of your post: I already think the XP2800 is comparable to the P4 2.8!!! Have you read nothing that I have posted previously in this thread?!

No, so far all that you keep saying is that the AXP2800+ is comparable to a P4 3.06GHz and exceeds the P4 2.8GHz. You can't evade a real answer that easily. So explain just exactly why the AXP28000+ exceeds the P4 2.8GHz and is in fact comparable to a 3.06GHz. Or if you can't, then admit it.

Explaining this to you again is insulting to the both of us, so I will leave it at that.

Do please explain it to me again, because so far you haven't made a single bit of sense.

Benchmarks are nice to look at, but they don't mean everything and certainly are not the sole basis on which one makes a decision as far as the next computer purchase is concerned.

Now you're really trying to evade your own faulty logic by blowing things far past the extreme. No one ever said that they were the 'sole basis on which one makes a decision as far as the next computer purchase is concerned'. That aside, good benchmarks make up about 85% of my considerations into my next PC purchase. The majority of bechmarks that are used (at least at THG) are real applications, not synthetic. They tell me exactly how this new hardware will run specific genres of software. I'd be foolish not to look at what genres of software I intend to use and use those relating benchmarks as a strong basis for my decisions. And that is the point. Benchmarks not only tell us how well a certain type of application will run, but if we happen to be using the exact same software, we know exactly how well it will run for us if we get that same hardware. It is a direct correlation to real-life usage to anyone who's intelligent enough to use them to make these comparisons correctly. I wonder what that says about you that you get so little out of them, hmm?

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eden · Feb 12, 2003

stability, compatibility, how software devs respond to new CPUs, hell even HEAT!

Then an AMD should not even have been scratched off your list.

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b00ga · Feb 12, 2003

AMD has those things, just NOT to the degree intel has. Many problems come not from the chip itself but supporting chipsets and such. But, even most reviewers say in testing nothing is more stable than an intel platform.

I personally have had compatiblity issues with some of the earlier systems in the athlon line, but have never had one with an intel board.

The dev support is an obvious intel win, just look at all the apps that are adding SSE2 for example.

And Heat? do you really even need an a reason

Yes this is negative, but true none the less. AMD was a cheap alternative with really good performance, but many things in that product are not near the intel level of quality. Which to me was the sole reasoning behind having a lower price.

Now the prices are damn near equal, I see 0 advantages with going with AMD, and there losses each quarter suggest others are having the same feelings.

knownalien · Feb 13, 2003

*this is getting old***

you're right, i'm wrong. how's that?Edited by knownalien on 02/12/03 07:01 PM.

lhgpoobaa · Feb 13, 2003

You're from australia too? coool!

Anyone claiming they can see the difference
between 450 and 500 FPS in Quake3 deserves to
be severely beaten with a rock.

eden · Feb 13, 2003

Heat is no longer an issue in the last revisions.
MetalRocker has an AthlonXP 1800+ Tbred B at 1.66GHZ, with a hybrid Volcano 7/7+, running FULL LOAD at 32ºC. Is that hot? No P4 on air, let alone an AMD system, ever did that last I checked, especially at the same level of performance as a 1.66GHZ AthlonXP.
Most recent CPUs are getting temps around 40, if not less, rare are the days of 50+. The highest Barton was fairly overclockable, and some claimed 2GHZ was the end of the line.

Stability wise, I agree, however the nForce 2 continues to improve stability. My KT266A is stable, no probs.

Price wise, high and middle end is no longer AMD's reign, low end, it will remain for a LONG TIME. I don't even imagine Intel would one day have P4s at under 60$. AMD does. Especially when you compare the XP2000 price to the 2GHZ P4, major difference.
And in the low end, generally you have money tight consumers, so the AMD system almost always wins.
But, lack of any support has indeed made it only value oriented. SSE-2, is for the K8, a new breed we are anxiously awaiting to see, whether it will form AMD once back, or fold it.

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Edited by Eden on 02/12/03 10:48 PM.

b00ga · Feb 13, 2003

Actually, I run several P4 Xeons at 2.8 Ghz with the basic intel cooler that shipped with it, and they are always around the 30* C. Not to mention that I dont have to worry about the system starting on fire if the heatsink loses contact

My P4 at home (a 2.0 Ghz) runs at or below 30 as well. But I find the Xeons more impressive, again Stock cooling.

I agree with you on price though, AMD does still hold the low end.

juin · Feb 13, 2003

They price is on part with the celeron ligne

Just next to the lab and the bunker you will find the marketing departement.

eden · Feb 13, 2003

I'll have to play hard headed by debating you further

:
My friend's P4 2.4B runs at a supposed 30-34ºC idle, and over 45ºC on LOAD. Your system should yeild over 40 or near it when on LOAD. Can you attest that Xeons on LOAD still run at a low 30ºC? I'd be very doubtful of the diode's accuracy if so.

As for the fire caught by HS contact, remember that the new AMDs are all ready for thermal shut off procedures, and some have claimed Barton has a CPU throttle feature, though I am not very believing so far.

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Makaveli · Feb 13, 2003

I'm running palomino XP1800+ 35c Idle and 40c full Load
And its overclocked to 1.67GHZ on a 166fsb.

Volcano 7+ HSF at medium fan speed.
4 80mm TT Case fans.

b00ga · Feb 13, 2003

Yep, The Xeon is cool as hell. I too was worried about the heat it would spit out. But, at 2.8 (Running MS SQL, and Dynamics (A rather hard hit accounting system that uses SQL) Load is more spiky than constant, however when doing some database tasks that eat up the CPU it spiked at 32* C. Also note these systems have been on for about a month (just got the new E7501 systems) and the temp of the CPU (now being in an enclosed rack) is watched rather frequently. The average is always low low 30s. Again, simply stock cooling. Nothing special.

And I was refering to the older Athlons being a fire hazzard, but I still dont know If I would trust it to be honest.

AMD XP 3000+ Benchmarks

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