AMD's Future Chips & SoC's: News, Info & Rumours.

[jaymc]

This thread is for any news, speculation or rumours on AMD's Future Chips. Raven Ridge, Naples, Zen+ & SoC's.

Please stick to TomsHardware rules and conduct, no personnel attacks please.
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/20984-9-read-first?_ga=1.8489468.890824788.1487294553

Updated 20/6/2018...
AMD’S EPYC RETURN TO THE DATACENTER RING:

https://www.nextplatform.com/2018/06/20/amds-epyc-return-to-the-datacenter-ring/

How Has The AMD Epyc Server Processor Done In Its First Year?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/patric...rocessor-done-in-its-first-year/#635de622d314

32C/64T AMD Ryzen Threadripper Cinebench scores surface:

32C/64T AMD Ryzen Threadripper Cinebench scores surface

And in a CPU-Z screenshot the CPU is described as the 'Ryzen Threadripper 2990X'.

www.hexus.net

AMD Ryzen 2 vs. Intel Coffee Lake: What's the Best CPU Platform?
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-coffee-lake-ryzen-2,5615.html

PlayStation 5 will use AMD’s Zen CPU, Navi GPU – report ?

PlayStation 5 will use AMD's Zen CPU, Navi GPU - report

More reports have emerged about which CPU and GPU architecture Sony will be using with the upcoming PlayStation 5.

www.vg247.com

Also check this out AMD buys wireless VR startup Nitero:
In a forward looking move AMD has bought this startup an are striving to achieve wireless VR.
https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/techandscience/amd-buys-wireless-vr-startup-nitero/ar-BBzH0UB


It's been a wild ride an it looks like the battle for the server market is only really starting to hot up..

Just as AMD threatens to give Intel the old one-two. Everything seem's to be falling into place for AMD at long last and Intel's luck seem's to be running out as 10nm is delayed even still and Intel's CEO is forced to step down. It's better than any soap opera at the moment. Things appear to be unfolding so far anyway, just as so many people have said they would it almost seem's inevitable at this point in time dare I say the words but "A tectonic shift is taking place in the IT Industry"

 

[Eximo]

If someone has gotten far enough into a system for the contents of the ram to be a concern, well there are other issues... But I suppose in a virtual environment it would be bad for an authorized user to be able to snoop at the memory of other VMs running on the same system. I don't believe static RAM is often used anywhere, let alone servers. Systems using solid state storage as memory is another matter, and that is likely encrypted through other means.

AMD will have to get hardware contracts, and right now Intel has that market pretty well cornered for high end x86 servers. If the price is low enough, new facilities might opt for AMD, but existing infrastructure would probably stick with Intel due to existing commitments. AMD is still quite popular with research where cost is a concern over performance.

 

[jaymc]

They already have contracts with Google / Alibaba.. If they are a cheaper option than Intel.. with added built hardware security that Intel simply doesn't offer at this time..

They will also soon be able to offer a full package.. I.e. Server CPU's and also GPU's which I'm sure will both come much cheaper than if purchased separately from Intel and Nvidia. This should encourage company's to make the change.

Here's an article with some leaked benchmarks from our friends at wccftttch so as with the usual disclaimer, maybe don't take everything said as law:

http://wccftech.com/amd-zen-naples-32-core-cpu-benchmarks-leaked/

 

[jaymc]

More info on Naples:
http://wccftech.com/amd-zen-naples-server-cpu-vega-gpu-platform/

An Raven Ridge:
According to this article (which may not be 100% accurate) There will be a version made especially for notebooks that will not have any HBM memory.
http://wccftech.com/amd-raven-ridge-apu-vega-zen-hbm-2017/

 

[Eximo]

Seems like some smart moves for placing themselves as an option at least.

I wonder how Optane and FPGA onboard will affect company decisions.

The APUs are mildly appealing, though at a certain point I would just want a mobile CPU with a discrete GPU.

 

[jaymc]

Naples is rumoured to be using a New Memory Interconnect from the Gen-Z Consortium, these are a non profit and open source organization.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3158919/servers/amd-talks-tough-as-it-drums-up-support-for-32-core-zen-server-chip.html

And here's an article on the Gen-Z Consortium from Anandtech:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10751/gen-z-consortium-formed-developing-a-new-memory-interconnect

"Any which way you cut it, it represents a lot of the industry, except one major player at least – Intel."

AMD appears to be a member they are the first name on the list here...
http://images.anandtech.com/doci/10751/Gen-Z%20Consortium%20Briefing%20Deck-2.png?_ga=1.27937275.654102032.1487992126
Although they are not mentioned in the list of company's involved in the article on Anandtech.

An I'd say the security in this Interconnect is probably the same hardware security that's built into Naples.

It looks like everyone is teaming up here, well except Intel that is of course.

 

[-Fran-]

Is there a way to change the thread type to something that doesn't show the "pick as solution" thingy?

Cheers!

PS: Another shameless tracking post!

 

[jaymc]

Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. (AMD) Announces Collaboration with Microsoft (MSFT) to Advance Open Source Cloud Hardware:

https://www.smarteranalyst.com/2017/03/08/advanced-micro-devices-inc-amd-announces-collaboration-microsoft-advance-open-source-cloud-hardware/

 

[jaymc]

Forrest Norrod, senior vice president and general manager of the Enterprise, Embedded, and Semi-Custom group at AMD:

"In some ways, the push for both ARM and Power is our fault. AMD stopped having credible, high performance, alternative processors to Intel. If we show up again with a high performance, high quality proc, there is such a lower barrier to adoption of an alternative X86 than to a new architecture that I think it will be welcomed with open arms."

“If you take a look at the performance that we will be able to span in the Intel two-socket space, and if you look at general integer performance levels, particularly on throughput, we think that on a SPECint_rate we will be able to match Intel on the highest bin Skylake part,” Norrod says. “Which I do not think they are expecting.”
We do not think FP16 half precision floating point is supported on the Zen core, but then again, AMD has “Vega” GPUs for offloading math from its CPUs.

Full article can be read here:
https://www.nextplatform.com/2017/03/07/naples-opterons-give-amd-second-chance-servers/

 

[jaymc]

AMD Zen 2 Based CPU Family is Called Pinnacle Ridge – Successor To Summit Ridge Arrives on AM4 in Early 2018:
http://wccftech.com/amd-pinnacle-ridge-cpu-zen-2-core/

AMD Pinnacle Ridge CPUs and Raven Ridge APUs Detailed – High-Performance Pinnacle Ridge To Feature 8 Zen 2 Cores, Raven Ridge Comes With 4 Zen and 11 Vega GPU Cores:
http://wccftech.com/amd-pinnacle-ridge-raven-ridge-processors-confirmed/

 

[juanrga]

Forrest Norrod, senior vice president and general manager of the Enterprise, Embedded, and Semi-Custom group at AMD:

"In some ways, the push for both ARM and Power is our fault. AMD stopped having credible, high performance, alternative processors to Intel. If we show up again with a high performance, high quality proc, there is such a lower barrier to adoption of an alternative X86 than to a new architecture that I think it will be welcomed with open arms."

“If you take a look at the performance that we will be able to span in the Intel two-socket space, and if you look at general integer performance levels, particularly on throughput, we think that on a SPECint_rate we will be able to match Intel on the highest bin Skylake part,” Norrod says. “Which I do not think they are expecting.”
We do not think FP16 half precision floating point is supported on the Zen core, but then again, AMD has “Vega” GPUs for offloading math from its CPUs.

Full article can be read here:
https://www.nextplatform.com/2017/03/07/naples-opterons-give-amd-second-chance-servers/

It is very funny that Norrod mentions ARM, because just a pair of days after that interview Microsoft announced that will start replacing its x86 servers by ARM servers, and then another other two big datacenters have announced will use ARM.

I wonder who will use Naples, because up to now not a single design win has been announced.

 

[juanrga]

AMD Zen 2 Based CPU Family is Called Pinnacle Ridge – Successor To Summit Ridge Arrives on AM4 in Early 2018:
http://wccftech.com/amd-pinnacle-ridge-cpu-zen-2-core/

AMD Pinnacle Ridge CPUs and Raven Ridge APUs Detailed – High-Performance Pinnacle Ridge To Feature 8 Zen 2 Cores, Raven Ridge Comes With 4 Zen and 11 Vega GPU Cores:
http://wccftech.com/amd-pinnacle-ridge-raven-ridge-processors-confirmed/

WCFTECH is making stuff again. The official slides clearly mention that Pinnacle Ridge uses Zen cores, not Zen2.

 

[-Fran-]

AMD Zen 2 Based CPU Family is Called Pinnacle Ridge – Successor To Summit Ridge Arrives on AM4 in Early 2018:
http://wccftech.com/amd-pinnacle-ridge-cpu-zen-2-core/

AMD Pinnacle Ridge CPUs and Raven Ridge APUs Detailed – High-Performance Pinnacle Ridge To Feature 8 Zen 2 Cores, Raven Ridge Comes With 4 Zen and 11 Vega GPU Cores:
http://wccftech.com/amd-pinnacle-ridge-raven-ridge-processors-confirmed/

WCFTECH is making stuff again. The official slides clearly mention that Pinnacle Ridge uses Zen cores, not Zen2.

I think that might be a typo in the slide instead... Otherwise they would be the same exact product according to the slide?

But yeah, it is WTFBBQTech we're talking about here... Not sure to be honest.

Cheers!

 

[juanrga]

AMD Zen 2 Based CPU Family is Called Pinnacle Ridge – Successor To Summit Ridge Arrives on AM4 in Early 2018:
http://wccftech.com/amd-pinnacle-ridge-cpu-zen-2-core/

AMD Pinnacle Ridge CPUs and Raven Ridge APUs Detailed – High-Performance Pinnacle Ridge To Feature 8 Zen 2 Cores, Raven Ridge Comes With 4 Zen and 11 Vega GPU Cores:
http://wccftech.com/amd-pinnacle-ridge-raven-ridge-processors-confirmed/

WCFTECH is making stuff again. The official slides clearly mention that Pinnacle Ridge uses Zen cores, not Zen2.

I think that might be a typo in the slide instead... Otherwise they would be the same exact product according to the slide?

But yeah, it is WTFBBQTech we're talking about here... Not sure to be honest.

Not a typo because other slides show the same: "Zen"

So far like I know Pinnacle Ridge is just Summit Ridge with higher clocks. Somewhat as Richland was a higher clocked Trinity.

 

[-Fran-]

Not a typo because other slides show the same: "Zen"

So far like I know Pinnacle Ridge is just Summit Ridge with higher clocks. Somewhat as Richland was a higher clocked Trinity.

That is a tad disappointing, but makes sense. I would imagine they'll just improve the lithography before Zen+.

Cheers!

 

[jaymc]

It looks like this move by Microsoft is putting even more pressure on Intel without declaring all out war that is.. but still Microsoft porting its Windows Server operating system to the Qualcomm Centriq – a 64-bit ARM-compatible server-grade system-on-chip, is a declaration of war in itself and doesn't say much for relations between Microsoft and Intel:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/03/08/microsoft_windows_server_qualcomm/

Furthermore Microsoft only recently announced an alliance with AMD...
Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. (AMD) Announces Collaboration with Microsoft (MSFT) to Advance Open Source Cloud Hardware:
https://www.smarteranalyst.com/2017/03/08/advanced-micro-devices-inc-amd-announces-collaboration-microsoft-advance-open-source-cloud-hardware/

It does look like Microsoft is changing teams alright.. while they seem to be pretty clever in the sense of keeping in with everybody else, Qualcomm's ARM and to a lessor extent AMD !!

One things for sure Intel is not invited to the party.. In fact they seem to be on everyone's naughty list..
This how an ever does not mean that Naples or AMD will succeed in the Data Centers..
But it does look like the time's they are a changing...

I do think that AMD may be kept alive by such company's on purpose to keep Intel at bay (Samsung included who licensed Globol Foundries the 14lpp process an also SK Hynix springs to mind who seem's to be making sure AMD get HBM2 first, separate war I suppose) or until they are usurped from their position of power in the data center.. That's one thing that looks pretty clear at the moment.

Also can't help thinking why Microsoft would make such a move (or moves even) that's bound to upset Intel considering the relationship they have when it comes to x86 an Windows sales.. Microsoft certainly don't seem worried about upsetting them... an all the while collaborating with their nemesis AMD (and ARM for that matter)..
It certainly does look like the time's are changing alright. An Intel seem to be short on friends, for the moment that is anyway.

 

[saintsfan0990]

[...]

This is where the money is and this is AMD's best chance of clearing the company's outstanding debt and surviving in the long term.

[...]

If you bought stock in AMD last year you could be looking at %875+ returns right now. Bid averages have gone up and almost equal with asks prices. Just 1 cent difference, right now could still be an alright time to buy as a day trade option but I would be weary or hesitant to pay anything upwards of $13.00 - $13.50, but I think the stock still has some room to grow and If you can hold a stake I see positive returns in the intermediate to long term, I wish I had more to spend on its stock. I personally am selling my shares now to up my capitol though. But, also to consider, AMD really sucks as a long term holding with very little dividend yield to brag about.

[...]

It's something Intel quite simply hasn't got.. The actual ram in the server is encrypted, an the key to decode is stored on the server in question (prevents ram being hacked or even stolen from the machine, certain types of ram hold there info even with no power.. ie solid state I suppose)
This is something Intel has nothing to compete with it and will should AMD an edge in the battle for server market share.

[...]

.
I don't really know about the encryption. But, the ram on the other hand is probably made with silicone. Manufacturers are experimenting with the use of newer technologies as we speak to create even smaller and faster ram than is possible with the current manufacturing processes of DIMM and SO-DIMM but in these rams that we still use today the design is usually a purpose built transistor composed of a variety of silicone elastomers. It is really on a matter of slightly changing the order and configuration of a few components to give your ram the ability to store charges without active electricity present for the circuitry to consume. Silicone is a semi-conductor and the unique properties of such is that when arranged properly a silicone circuit can function as a transistor or capacitor or both at the same time, usually each physical byte is designed with a switch and bait to re-write each byte as it is accessed and output is drawn from the circuit. Technically speaking this is done by creating a loop at each byte that loops the output of the gate once it is open back through the transistor from which was being read, once this happens, the transistor gets stuck holding the charge again until it is either accessed again or written over. If it is written over by a zero it is drained. So, even if the power if removed from the ram at this point it really doesn't matter, the circuit will still hold the charge, unless over written or hardware, basic binary logic etc.

 

[saintsfan0990]

I heard they are requesting AMD for build hololens, you hear this?

 

[jaymc]

I heard they are requesting AMD for build hololens, you hear this?

I'm afraid I can't say I've heard that.. I read that Intel cancelled the Atom they were supposed to use for it. An that they may consider using ARM instead. But I haven't seen anything so far suggesting they have approached AMD.

 

[juanrga]

It looks like this move by Microsoft is putting even more pressure on Intel without declaring all out war that is.. but still Microsoft porting its Windows Server operating system to the Qualcomm Centriq – a 64-bit ARM-compatible server-grade system-on-chip, is a declaration of war in itself and doesn't say much for relations between Microsoft and Intel:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/03/08/microsoft_windows_server_qualcomm/

Furthermore Microsoft only recently announced an alliance with AMD...
Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. (AMD) Announces Collaboration with Microsoft (MSFT) to Advance Open Source Cloud Hardware:
https://www.smarteranalyst.com/2017/03/08/advanced-micro-devices-inc-amd-announces-collaboration-microsoft-advance-open-source-cloud-hardware/

It does look like Microsoft is changing teams alright.. while they seem to be pretty clever in the sense of keeping in with everybody else, Qualcomm's ARM and to a lessor extent AMD !!

One things for sure Intel is not invited to the party.. In fact they seem to be on everyone's naughty list..
This how an ever does not mean that Naples or AMD will succeed in the Data Centers..
But it does look like the time's they are a changing...

It is not only Qualcomm but Cavium as well. And Microsoft and other two big customers switching to ARM will only hurt Naples sales. It said it years ago: Naples will be crushed by both sides, x86 (Intel) and ARM... and it is already happening.

Microsoft will continue giving support to x86, but what you say Intel is "not invited to the party" is plain wrong:

The Project Olympus standard will support the next generation Intel Xeon processors (Skylake) and AMD's next-generation processor, which it has dubbed "Naples." There was also an announcement about NVIDIA and support for GPU-based processing, which is most often associated with artificial intelligence computations.

Microsoft didn’t abandon Intel either, and they announced close collaboration with Intel as well. This will be not only for Intel’s general purpose CPUs, but also for Intel’s FPGA accelerators and Nervana support. Microsoft already has FPGAs in Azure, so adding them to Project Olympus is a no-brainer.

http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/cracking-open/microsoft-project-olympus-sets-the-standard-for-future-cloud-hardware/

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11187/microsoft-details-project-olympus-open-compute-standard

 

[-Fran-]

Windows servers are a small fraction of the world. I wouldn't even consider them a threat to the ecosystem from any camp.

Cheers!

 

[Eximo]

Wikipedia claims almost exactly 1/3 of web servers are Windows, seems a little high actually.

My company is about 50/50 it seems, but I would say the big budget systems are running Linux or some enterprise flavor of Unix, and the rest are Microsoft servers or minor Application servers.

But some other sources are definitely skewed by their clientele. Spiceworks, an open source ITSM/SAM/HAM tool has the Windows numbers over 80%.

Several other sources claim Windows servers are still the majority.

But I guess it really comes down to who is volunteering information.

I would be curious if any of the cloud services even have such statistics.

 

[-Fran-]

Wikipedia claims almost exactly 1/3 of web servers are Windows, seems a little high actually.

My company is about 50/50 it seems, but I would say the big budget systems are running Linux or some enterprise flavor of Unix, and the rest are Microsoft servers or minor Application servers.

But some other sources are definitely skewed by their clientele. Spiceworks, an open source ITSM/SAM/HAM tool has the Windows numbers over 80%.

Several other sources claim Windows servers are still the majority.

But I guess it really comes down to who is volunteering information.

I would be curious if any of the cloud services even have such statistics.

All companies have email servers that they need to host Outlook 😀

MS is like the perfect trojan when they sell their OS. If you want to use Office stuff, you *need* a Windows Server, or they won't cover you with their warranty. So yeah; most companies just use them for email server at worst and exchange servers at best. We have some running dotNET parsers, because they're useless for anything else XD

Cheers! 😛

 

[jaymc]

It looks like this move by Microsoft is putting even more pressure on Intel without declaring all out war that is.. but still Microsoft porting its Windows Server operating system to the Qualcomm Centriq – a 64-bit ARM-compatible server-grade system-on-chip, is a declaration of war in itself and doesn't say much for relations between Microsoft and Intel:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/03/08/microsoft_windows_server_qualcomm/

Furthermore Microsoft only recently announced an alliance with AMD...
Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. (AMD) Announces Collaboration with Microsoft (MSFT) to Advance Open Source Cloud Hardware:
https://www.smarteranalyst.com/2017/03/08/advanced-micro-devices-inc-amd-announces-collaboration-microsoft-advance-open-source-cloud-hardware/

It does look like Microsoft is changing teams alright.. while they seem to be pretty clever in the sense of keeping in with everybody else, Qualcomm's ARM and to a lessor extent AMD !!

One things for sure Intel is not invited to the party.. In fact they seem to be on everyone's naughty list..
This how an ever does not mean that Naples or AMD will succeed in the Data Centers..
But it does look like the time's they are a changing...

It is not only Qualcomm but Cavium as well. And Microsoft and other two big customers switching to ARM will only hurt Naples sales. It said it years ago: Naples will be crushed by both sides, x86 (Intel) and ARM... and it is already happening.

Microsoft will continue giving support to x86, but what you say Intel is "not invited to the party" is plain wrong:

The Project Olympus standard will support the next generation Intel Xeon processors (Skylake) and AMD's next-generation processor, which it has dubbed "Naples." There was also an announcement about NVIDIA and support for GPU-based processing, which is most often associated with artificial intelligence computations.

Microsoft didn’t abandon Intel either, and they announced close collaboration with Intel as well. This will be not only for Intel’s general purpose CPUs, but also for Intel’s FPGA accelerators and Nervana support. Microsoft already has FPGAs in Azure, so adding them to Project Olympus is a no-brainer.

http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/cracking-open/microsoft-project-olympus-sets-the-standard-for-future-cloud-hardware/

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11187/microsoft-details-project-olympus-open-compute-standard

Appreciate your input Juan and as always I'm not taking it lightly... But can I ask you with Microsoft developing Windows Server to run on ARM processors Qualcomm and Cavium is that not a major change in Microsoft's agenda... I've never known them to do something like this. Is this not going to look like a threat to Intel ?? An AMD to a lessor extent. They can announce projects with everyone if they want but this looks bad for x86... Especially Intel.. as they have majority of the market share in the data centers... Maybe ARM is the future as you say.. but Microsoft doing deals with Intel's biggest threats in the data centers has to be news ?

"These ARM design are part of Microsoft’s next generation of server hardware, intended to cut operational costs. New hardware is being developed with a number of companies under the name Project Olympus. Other designs include systems running on AMD’s Naples processor, and on a variant of Intel’s own Skylake chips. Bloomberg reports that some of this new hardware will make its way into Microsoft’s data centers “later this year.” However, it’s not clear if this refers to the designs using ARM processors."

It looks like they are trying to cut costs (by buying ARM instead of Xeons) and reduce market on Intel at the same time. Will they be selling this solution ? Does this not make them enemy's ?

Cavium latest ARM chip is being made on 10nm process node... I believe they and Qualcomm are licensing the architecture.. does this mean that Intel or AMD can do the same ?

It looks like Microsoft are ensuring their future in the Data Center.. But it also looks like they are putting pressure on Intel to drop prices and loosen their grip on the server market. As stated in Anandtech's article.

While AMD's market share in the server market can only go up from where it is now, it looks like an attempt to push Intel's down. Along with their prices.

 

[Eximo]

Switching to ARM is more about handling lots of small jobs at very low power rather than using powerful cores to do single tasks or multi-task. So they aren't quite a one-one comparison.

They'll both have their place. AMD even got into the ARM segment themselves some years back and failed spectacularly at adoption.