AMD's Future Chips & SoC's: News, Info & Rumours.

[Gon Freecss]

@8350rocks;

AMD supplies coolers rated >140W+ with their 2700X, and that doesn't even let it hit its optimal temperature of <62 degrees (number coming straight from AMD) at stock. This leads to the conclusion that their TDP is actually way higher than 105W.

 

[goldstone77]

Why I No Longer Accept Review Samples From AMD!
Tech of Tomorrow
Published on Apr 23, 2018
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Qflrf6UiWk&feature=youtu.be
[video="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Qflrf6UiWk&feature=youtu.be"][/video]
Wow AMD! Not smart to piss off a YouTuber with 557K subscribers!

 

[-Fran-]

Why I No Longer Accept Review Samples From AMD!
Tech of Tomorrow
Published on Apr 23, 2018
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Qflrf6UiWk&feature=youtu.be
<VIDEO>
Wow AMD! Not smart to piss off a YouTuber with 557K subscribers!

Indeed. AMD needs to approach this guy and get the story straight. This is flat out bad publicity they don't need now. I wonder who that guy that was in touch with him was. Sounds like most of the problems stemmed from that guy and the lack of a good relations team.

That being said, weird timing from his part. Well, I guess now is as good as yesterday was. I'd also like for a time frame of events.

Cheers!

 

[juanrga]

It's amazing the improvement you get when programs are adapted for Ryzen! Now just 3% instead of 30%!

It doesn't look as adapting to RyZen, but more like the former version broken somewhat. Something similar happened with a former version of CPU-Z which was broken in Intel chips with 256KB L2.

 

[juanrga]

In the mean time, please, for the love of whatever deity (or lack there of) you believe in, stop confounding Watts and Volts. It makes this engineer ready to rip the grey hair I have left out of my head.

Obviously I am not confounding anything of that.

NOTE: unit names are singular. It is volt and watt.

 

[juanrga]

AMD supplies coolers rated >140W+ with their 2700X, and that doesn't even let it hit its optimal temperature of <62 degrees (number coming straight from AMD) at stock. This leads to the conclusion that their TDP is actually way higher than 105W.

First, we have the small Wraith Stealth (65W TDP) which is bundled with the Ryzen 5 1400 processor, then there's the Wraith Spire (95W TDP) which comes with the Ryzen 5 1500X, 1600 and Ryzen 7 1700, and finally, we have the top-of-the-line Wraith Max (140W TDP) which is included with the Ryzen 7 1700X and 1800X.

The real TDP of the 1700 is 90W, so it is bundled with a 95W cooler.
The real TDP of the 1700X/1800X is 128W, so it is bundled with a 140W cooler.

I couldn't find still the wattage of the new Wraith Prism cooler included with the 2700X.

 

[goldstone77]

volt
vōlt
noun
plural noun: volts
the SI unit of electromotive force, the difference of potential that would drive one ampere of current against one ohm resistance.

watt
wät
noun
plural noun: watts
the SI unit of power, equivalent to one joule per second, corresponding to the power in an electric circuit in which the potential difference is one volt and the current one ampere.

 

[-Fran-]

AMD supplies coolers rated >140W+ with their 2700X, and that doesn't even let it hit its optimal temperature of <62 degrees (number coming straight from AMD) at stock. This leads to the conclusion that their TDP is actually way higher than 105W.

First, we have the small Wraith Stealth (65W TDP) which is bundled with the Ryzen 5 1400 processor, then there's the Wraith Spire (95W TDP) which comes with the Ryzen 5 1500X, 1600 and Ryzen 7 1700, and finally, we have the top-of-the-line Wraith Max (140W TDP) which is included with the Ryzen 7 1700X and 1800X.

The real TDP of the 1700 is 90W, so it is bundled with a 95W cooler.
The real TDP of the 1700X/1800X is 128W, so it is bundled with a 140W cooler.

I couldn't find still the wattage of the new Wraith Prism cooler included with the 2700X.

I thought AMD offered them as an additional and not included them. Just like Intel has had their own "special" cooling solution as optional for the K lines.

 

[goldstone77]

It's amazing the improvement you get when programs are adapted for Ryzen! Now just 3% instead of 30%!

It doesn't look as adapting to RyZen, but former version broken.

It wasn't broken for Ryzen, it did work, but it was outdated. The program was modified to better utilize Ryzen with an update, hence adapted for Ryzen.

Edit:
a·dapt
əˈdapt
verb
past tense: adapted; past participle: adapted
make (something) suitable for a new use or purpose; modify.

 

[juanrga]

I thought AMD offered them as an additional and not included them. Just like Intel has had their own "special" cooling solution as optional for the K lines.

It doesn't change my point.

 

[juanrga]

volt
vōlt
noun
plural noun: volts
the SI unit of electromotive force, the difference of potential that would drive one ampere of current against one ohm resistance.

watt
wät
noun
plural noun: watts
the SI unit of power, equivalent to one joule per second, corresponding to the power in an electric circuit in which the potential difference is one volt and the current one ampere.

The standard names for the units are "volt" and "watt". There are at least three reasons for not using plural: one technical, one of consistency, and one linguistic. A measurement is a relational correspondence between the systems being measured and one reference. The abbreviation for volt is V and W for watt. "volts" and "watts" would be abbreviated as Vs and Ws, which would be ambiguous symbols (e.g. is Vs volt times second or not?), so it is always V and W. The linguistic reason is that adding a "s" to form plurals is an English rule, not a universal rule for all languages.

 

[-Fran-]

I thought AMD offered them as an additional and not included them. Just like Intel has had their own "special" cooling solution as optional for the K lines.

It doesn't change my point.

It does, since it's not part of the cost of the CPU and, well, technically a lie.

Also, I don't think the Wraiths are more than 125W rated. Where did you find that information? I haven't seen any diagrams for them. Maybe I missed them? =/

 

[juanrga]

I thought AMD offered them as an additional and not included them. Just like Intel has had their own "special" cooling solution as optional for the K lines.

It doesn't change my point.

It does, since it's not part of the cost of the CPU and, well, technically a lie.

Also, I don't think the Wraiths are more than 125W rated. Where did you find that information? I haven't seen any diagrams for them. Maybe I missed them? =/

AMD offered the coolers as part of bundles. But this is irrelevant. My point was about how AMD relates its own coolers to the real TDPs of the chips, aka a 95W cooler with a 90W chip as the 1700 or a 140W cooler with a 128W chip as the 1800X.

The wattages of the coolers can be found in any part.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-ryzen-wraith-max-cooler,35098.html

 

[-Fran-]

I thought AMD offered them as an additional and not included them. Just like Intel has had their own "special" cooling solution as optional for the K lines.

It doesn't change my point.

It does, since it's not part of the cost of the CPU and, well, technically a lie.

Also, I don't think the Wraiths are more than 125W rated. Where did you find that information? I haven't seen any diagrams for them. Maybe I missed them? =/

AMD offered the coolers as part of bundles. But this is irrelevant. My point was about how AMD relates its own coolers to the real TDPs of the chips, aka a 95W cooler with a 90W chip as the 1700 or a 140W cooler with a 128W chip as the 1800X.

The wattages of the coolers can be found in any part.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-ryzen-wraith-max-cooler,35098.html

Considering they were advertising them as "OC friendly" cooling solutions, why do you think they support 140W? It's like complaining Amazon bundles the Noctua D14 with the i7 8700K and blaming Intel saying "yeah, the 8700K is not a 95W part because you see bundles with a 200W capable cooler!". Like you say, nonsense.

EDIT: https://twitter.com/jkampman_tr/status/988528269883596800

The reverse is also, funnily, true!

 

[juanrga]

Considering they were advertising them as "OC friendly" cooling solutions, why do you think they support 140W? It's like complaining Amazon bundles the Noctua D14 with the i7 8700K and blaming Intel saying "yeah, the 8700K is not a 95W part because you see bundles with a 200W capable cooler!". Like you say, nonsense.

They didn't bundle the 90W chips with a 95W stock cooler because OC.

The Noctua D14 is not a stock cooler. It is not even an Intel socket exclusive cooler!!!

 

[-Fran-]

They didn't bundle the 90W chips with a 95W stock cooler because OC.

The Noctua D14 is not a stock cooler. It is not even an Intel socket exclusive cooler!!!

I think I'm understanding what you're trying to get at now. AMD including the Wraith Prism (Max + LED?) and that HSF having 125W+ thermal conductance rating is a "deceiving practice" because the CPUs are rated for 105W TDP.

Yeah, I still think it's nonsense.

AMD could have asked CoolerMaster for the Wraith to have 200W thermal conductance and it won't be deceiving, but actually nice of them. Most of the "bulk" cost gets eaten by AMD and we would get a nice cooling solution for less money or still get it on its own (although it's kind of a bad idea). The fact that the Noctua is not included with any CPU brand, is because neither AMD nor Intel has asked them to make exclusive models for them, but I do know there are some cooling solutions exclusive for certain platforms on the Intel side. Let me try and remember (plus finding) the HSF I'm thinking of.

EDIT: Might be related to this: https://www.kitguru.net/components/cooling/anton-shilov/intel-rolls-out-its-most-advanced-air-cooler-to-date-ts15a-for-lga1151-processors/
EDIT2: Looking for more information, it's kind of funny how everyone complains about the bundled coolers from Intel in the Haswell-E era and when they bundled them for K processors. Most posts I read, pointed at throttling under stress almost right away.

 

[juanrga]

They didn't bundle the 90W chips with a 95W stock cooler because OC.

The Noctua D14 is not a stock cooler. It is not even an Intel socket exclusive cooler!!!

I think I'm understanding what you're trying to get at now. AMD including the Wraith Prism (Max + LED?) and that HSF having 125W+ thermal conductance rating is a "deceiving practice" because the CPUs are rated for 105W TDP.

Yeah, I still think it's nonsense.

AMD could have asked CoolerMaster for the Wraith to have 200W thermal conductance and it won't be deceiving, but actually nice of them. Most of the "bulk" cost gets eaten by AMD and we would get a nice cooling solution for less money or still get it on its own (although it's kind of a bad idea). The fact that the Noctua is not included with any CPU brand, is because neither AMD nor Intel has asked them to make exclusive models for them, but I do know there are some cooling solutions exclusive for certain platforms on the Intel side. Let me try and remember (plus finding) the HSF I'm thinking of.

EDIT: Might be related to this: https://www.kitguru.net/components/cooling/anton-shilov/intel-rolls-out-its-most-advanced-air-cooler-to-date-ts15a-for-lga1151-processors/

The problem isn't on using the official cooler, which is already designed for the real cooling requirements. Also besides having the proper cooler, the higher TDP implies higher power consumption.

 

[-Fran-]

The problem isn't on using the official cooler, which is already designed for the real cooler. Also besides having the proper cooler, the higher TDP implies higher power consumption.

Strictly speaking, no. It could have worse thermal performance due to other factors (tooth paste; not AMD's case). Badly applied paste/grease can also make the CPUs consume way more due to not being able to transfer energy outside, etc. We all just assume everyone can apply thermal paste/grease correctly, but it's harder than it sounds.

Also, and probably related: see Turbo behaviors for both AMD and Intel with better performing cooling solutions. TDP nowadays means little thanks to them. I do believe they need to re-define them. I wish they went back to pure power consumption, but it also has it's own problems for OEMs, I guess. Also thanks to better thermal monitoring from the CPU side, they can hide some of the implicit problems we used to see as well.

EDIT: Tag shenanigans.

 

[jdwii]

Just going to drop this here.

TDP != Power Consumption.

TDP = sustained power consumption

A processor with a TDP of 140W should, in general, consume 140W of power (plus some efficiency losses).

 

[jdwii]

Spoiler

Audacity MP3 Encode

MP3 Encoding with Audacity using the LAME plugin is a media creation workload that depends on single-thread performance. We see a stark performance difference here between Zen+ and Coffee Lake. The Ryzen 2000-series parts are around 30% slower than their Intel counterparts in this test.

The new Zen+ parts provide an 8% improvement in encoding time over the previous Zen CPUs.

Editor's Note: Shortly before the publication of this review, AMD contacted us about improvements to the LAME plugin for Audacity. We tested with the LAME 3.99.3 plugin, which has been the widely available plugin for Audacity for many years and is based on a LAME release from 2011.

AMD has worked with the developer of this plugin, and as a result, there is now a newer version (3.100). This plugin is based on a more modern release of LAME from 2017 and is compiled with a modern toolchain. Improvements include a move to native x64 binaries and SSE2 support. This new plugin has been officially released by the developer on their website. Here's a quick preview of testing on this new plugin:

As you can see, while AMD still loses this performance comparison, the gap is now around 3% instead of 30%. Additionally, the performance of both the AMD and Intel processors improved. This is a more accurate reflection of relative performance, and we will be using the LAME 3.100 plugin in all CPU testing going forward.

It's amazing the improvement you get when programs are adapted for Ryzen! Now just 3% instead of 30%!

https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Processors/Ryzen-7-2700X-and-Ryzen-5-2600X-Review-Zen-Matures/Media-Encoding-and-Rendering

Should probably emphasize this part of the article:

This plugin is based on a more modern release of LAME from 2017 and is compiled with a modern toolchain. Improvements include a move to native x64 binaries and SSE2 support.

Long overdue to be honest that piece of software needed that badly

 

[goldstone77]

I wish more reviews tested noise from the Wraith Prism. I haven't found any reviews other than Tom's Hardware's one that even mention it.

https://youtu.be/zCkS77QUreQ?t=287

He claims the prism is more quiet than the other coolers.

 

[randomizer]

https://youtu.be/zCkS77QUreQ?t=287

He claims the prism is more quiet than the other coolers.

Thanks. That seems contradictory to TH's review, but with a sample size of two it's a stretch to conclude that you've got a 50/50 chance of having a leaf blower.

 

[jdwii]

https://youtu.be/zCkS77QUreQ?t=287

He claims the prism is more quiet than the other coolers.

Thanks. That seems contradictory to TH's review, but with a sample size of two it's a stretch to conclude that you've got a 50/50 chance of having a leaf blower.

It can get loud i watched jayz video on it.

I have a solution get the 2700X sell the Prism cooler on ebay for 30$ get a nice budget heatsink and the noise issue is solved haha.

No i'm seriously considering on getting one of these for fun probably just sell my 1700 and my non touched switch(work all the time and when i get home i'm basically on my PC).

Love playing around with benchmarks and tweaking on my off time. Like to test the latency between the core complexes or the duct tape as Intel would put it

 

[aldaia]

Summary of Ryzen 2000 series reviews.

https://www.3dcenter.org/news/ryzen-2000-launchreviews-die-testresultate-zur-anwendungs-performance-im-ueberblick

The site has compiled most of the Ryzen 2000 series reviews, so far 26 reviews present.
The interesting part is the average of those reviews: 2700X is 8% faster than 8700K while 2600X is 13% faster than 8600k.

 

[-Fran-]

Summary of Ryzen 2000 series reviews.

https://www.3dcenter.org/news/ryzen-2000-launchreviews-die-testresultate-zur-anwendungs-performance-im-ueberblick

The site has compiled most of the Ryzen 2000 series reviews, so far 26 reviews present.
The interesting part is the average of those reviews: 2700X is 8% faster than 8700K while 2600X is 13% faster than 8600k.

Oh, that's nice. I hope they update the page when TR and AT do their own updates. TR will be adding the gaming data either today or tomorrow and Ian is still working through the data and repeating tests it seems.

Interesting times!

Cheers!