AMD's Piledriver And K10 CPU Architectures Face Off

[MasterMace]

especially looking at the Athlon processor, I feel that the reviewer wasn't overclocking to maximize the overclock. You would find the Athlon overclocking much better by lowering the multiplier and finding the high end FSB overclock (which is over 300mhz), and then adjusting the multiplier back up until you faced stability issues. A 40mhz overclock is just on the low end of overclocking.

 

[bob sander]

Listen children: AMD led the way in IPC back in the beginnings of the x64 era and clearly saw the diminishing returns in OVERALL COMPUTE PEFORMANCE on the horizon. They made a clear and conscious decisions to pursue the path that lead to the greatest possible overall compute performance. One takes serious engineering, the other requires your own fab and the ability to delude children into believing that software, as a whole, isn't incredibly dated and poorly optimized. A certain company has not given up on the idea that IPC is an unlimited frontier, even though they require counter-productive measures such as 'hyper-threading' to even begin to utilize the pipeline effectively.

Please, go educate yourselves on how to compile a program properly, then come back and tell me what happened to intel's fma4 implementation and explain how hyperthreading increases overall compute performance if the primary thread is already able to utilize the pipeline as effectively as realistically possible.

Oh, wait, 99% of the gamer 'enthusiast' children who talk of IPC don't actually have a damned clue what their talking about? You don't say.... You kids have held back the advancement of desktop and even server class ARCs with your gullible idiocy and complete inability to grasp the actual relevance of extra instructions that cannot even be utilized effectively without specifically de-optimizing code and thereby hurting physical core performance.

Anyways, decent review but you need to drop titles like skyrim and replace them with software that properly understands the concept of multiple cores, x87 is depreciated... and that engine is pretty much rubbish, regardless of whatever the perceived quality of the actual game may be.

Additionally, does whetstone actually have any understanding of a FPU that is capable of either 2x128 or 1x256? No, I don't believe whetstone does, so it actually has no relevance except to illustrate how easy it is to present flawed comparisons between arcs. I suggest moving on to software that actually bothers with things like 'updates' and actually cares about making valid comparisons.

 

[Novuake]

Listen children: AMD led the way in IPC back in the beginnings of the x64 era and clearly saw the diminishing returns in OVERALL COMPUTE PEFORMANCE on the horizon. They made a clear and conscious decisions to pursue the path that lead to the greatest possible overall compute performance. One takes serious engineering, the other requires your own fab and the ability to delude children into believing that software, as a whole, isn't incredibly dated and poorly optimized. A certain company has not given up on the idea that IPC is an unlimited frontier, even though they require counter-productive measures such as 'hyper-threading' to even begin to utilize the pipeline effectively.

Please, go educate yourselves on how to compile a program properly, then come back and tell me what happened to intel's fma4 implementation and explain how hyperthreading increases overall compute performance if the primary thread is already able to utilize the pipeline as effectively as realistically possible.

Oh, wait, 99% of the gamer 'enthusiast' children who talk of IPC don't actually have a damned clue what their talking about? You don't say.... You kids have held back the advancement of desktop and even server class ARCs with your gullible idiocy and complete inability to grasp the actual relevance of extra instructions that cannot even be utilized effectively without specifically de-optimizing code and thereby hurting physical core performance.

Anyways, decent review but you need to drop titles like skyrim and replace them with software that properly understands the concept of multiple cores, x87 is depreciated... and that engine is pretty much rubbish, regardless of whatever the perceived quality of the actual game may be.

Additionally, does whetstone actually have any understanding of a FPU that is capable of either 2x128 or 1x256? No, I don't believe whetstone does, so it actually has no relevance except to illustrate how easy it is to present flawed comparisons between arcs. I suggest moving on to software that actually bothers with things like 'updates' and actually cares about making valid comparisons.

So your a fanboy AND insulting?

Performance is determined as much by the software as by the CPU.
Hell if AMD optimized for the wrong future, then what does it matter!?

The outcome and choices made are the same! Intel comes out ahead, why? Because they make the RIGHT choice...

So please, how about not insulting the whole forum?

 

[ingtar33]

Listen children: AMD led the way in IPC back in the beginnings of the x64 era and clearly saw the diminishing returns in OVERALL COMPUTE PEFORMANCE on the horizon. They made a clear and conscious decisions to pursue the path that lead to the greatest possible overall compute performance. One takes serious engineering, the other requires your own fab and the ability to delude children into believing that software, as a whole, isn't incredibly dated and poorly optimized. A certain company has not given up on the idea that IPC is an unlimited frontier, even though they require counter-productive measures such as 'hyper-threading' to even begin to utilize the pipeline effectively.

Please, go educate yourselves on how to compile a program properly, then come back and tell me what happened to intel's fma4 implementation and explain how hyperthreading increases overall compute performance if the primary thread is already able to utilize the pipeline as effectively as realistically possible.

Oh, wait, 99% of the gamer 'enthusiast' children who talk of IPC don't actually have a damned clue what their talking about? You don't say.... You kids have held back the advancement of desktop and even server class ARCs with your gullible idiocy and complete inability to grasp the actual relevance of extra instructions that cannot even be utilized effectively without specifically de-optimizing code and thereby hurting physical core performance.

Anyways, decent review but you need to drop titles like skyrim and replace them with software that properly understands the concept of multiple cores, x87 is depreciated... and that engine is pretty much rubbish, regardless of whatever the perceived quality of the actual game may be.

Additionally, does whetstone actually have any understanding of a FPU that is capable of either 2x128 or 1x256? No, I don't believe whetstone does, so it actually has no relevance except to illustrate how easy it is to present flawed comparisons between arcs. I suggest moving on to software that actually bothers with things like 'updates' and actually cares about making valid comparisons.

wow dude, really? you need to make it personal for what reason exactly?

I HAVE an AMD cpu. I like to think of myself as an advocate of competition, not a fanboy. I have plenty of good memories of AMD cpus, plenty of awesome overclocking experiences. The one thing I am not is blind to reality.

Reality is intel cpus are BETTER then amd cpus in most situations that are relevant to most users. Reality is 99% of people can't tell the difference between either companies cpus in 95% of daily use, and the last 1% is lying. Reality is the bottleneck in 95% of your daily computer use is your hard drive or video card.

Sadly AMD isn't the performance champ any more, they're the "good enough" budget champ right now. This won't change until they can produce a better chip AND convince the market their chips are as good or better then an intel. That's the reality.

I fail so see the need for you to come in here throwing around a pejorative like "children", denigrating a whole bunch of rather smart people who seem to have a pretty solid grasp on reality and the facts of the situation, just because you don't like those facts.

 

[RedJaron]

Oh boy, another AMD fan yelling that Tom's unfairly slights AMD of its rightful place on the throne because of a heavily biased benchmark suite. So instead it needs to be made up of only apps that show AMD in the best light? Do you not see your hypocrisy?

What software or games woulda/coulda/shoulda done is irrelevant here. Right now, consider current software. Why should Skyrim or StarCraft be pulled from the benchmark suite? Regardless of how well or poorly they're coded, they're incredibly popular titles. That means it's quite likely that a consumer will play them. If one type of CPU handles a very popular task or game poorly, why shouldn't it be penalized?

Let me guess, you're still mad that Betamax lost to VHS, right?

 

[silicondoc_85]

So much BS, the old Phenom II X4 and X6 BE are still really competitive after all these years. Yet, if they bother to update the instruction set, and just shrink the thing, then change it to AM3+ socket, that would be great...
K10 has so much more potential...

Yep, well that's why an unavailable 965BE is lauded on the last page.
If it was an nVidia product, it would have been declared dead and out of production, but with AMD the endless tokus smooching must go on forever.
One line about $100 "availability" is all we get for detraction...

So of course, the OTHER massive amd advantage, the REAL ONE,is missing.... it's like the braindead amd fanboy can't keep things straight with all the liesand frauds and half truths and exaggerations and special test tweakings needed to make the turd shine...

JUST BUY A 500 SERIES BLACK EDITION DUALCORE AMD PHENOM 2 AND UNLOCK AND OVERCLOCK IT - IT HAS THE 6 MB L3 CACHE SO YOU'VE GOT A PHENOM2 4X 980 ON YOUR HANDS !
DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess amd fanboys even have an ee-pinprick teensy weensy budget shame issue, even though it's all they ever whine about....

Yep, ph2 555be (550 560 565) cored to 4 and oc'ed STILL IS NEAR THE KING OF THE AMD PILES OF CRAP.
So for $33 on ebay YOU CAN HAVE THE TOP AMD GAMING PROCESSOR.

There's reality for the penny pinching amd fanboy.

You're welcome.

I just did it myself for a 6th screw around gaming system with striped raid 0 ssd's... I wasn't impressed at all but then again I detest the dark cloud of constant lies surrounding amd... so maybe there's a bit of denial.. I doubt it after the 21 sec superpi but ya never know...

So just take your am2/am3/am3+ board and unlock any of the numerous 500/600 series BE phenom 2's for dirt cheap and then OC...

stock amd boxed heatsink 4 cores 3,800mhz not a voltage touched...

 

[logainofhades]

Super pi, seriously? You mention a benchmark that AMD has NEVER been good with. Even when AMD was kicking crapburst all over the place, AMD was worse in Super Pi.

 

[ingtar33]

So much BS, the old Phenom II X4 and X6 BE are still really competitive after all these years. Yet, if they bother to update the instruction set, and just shrink the thing, then change it to AM3+ socket, that would be great...
K10 has so much more potential...

Yep, well that's why an unavailable 965BE is lauded on the last page.
If it was an nVidia product, it would have been declared dead and out of production, but with AMD the endless tokus smooching must go on forever.
One line about $100 "availability" is all we get for detraction...

So of course, the OTHER massive amd advantage, the REAL ONE,is missing.... it's like the braindead amd fanboy can't keep things straight with all the liesand frauds and half truths and exaggerations and special test tweakings needed to make the turd shine...

JUST BUY A 500 SERIES BLACK EDITION DUALCORE AMD PHENOM 2 AND UNLOCK AND OVERCLOCK IT - IT HAS THE 6 MB L3 CACHE SO YOU'VE GOT A PHENOM2 4X 980 ON YOUR HANDS !
DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess amd fanboys even have an ee-pinprick teensy weensy budget shame issue, even though it's all they ever whine about....

Yep, ph2 555be (550 560 565) cored to 4 and oc'ed STILL IS NEAR THE KING OF THE AMD PILES OF CRAP.
So for $33 on ebay YOU CAN HAVE THE TOP AMD GAMING PROCESSOR.

There's reality for the penny pinching amd fanboy.

You're welcome.

I just did it myself for a 6th screw around gaming system with striped raid 0 ssd's... I wasn't impressed at all but then again I detest the dark cloud of constant lies surrounding amd... so maybe there's a bit of denial.. I doubt it after the 21 sec superpi but ya never know...

So just take your am2/am3/am3+ board and unlock any of the numerous 500/600 series BE phenom 2's for dirt cheap and then OC...

stock amd boxed heatsink 4 cores 3,800mhz not a voltage touched...

ugh... not sure what's worse... blind fanboyism or uninformed trolling.

I think in this case the uninformed trolling is more obnoxious. Some small points of contention...

1) core unlocking is not guaranteed. many 2 and 3 core phenomIIs were binned out of the quad core lineup due to faulty cores. Obviously not all 2 or 3 core phenomIIs have bad cores but a sizable minority did.

2) Bulldozer hype was unfortunate. tragic really. Almost as tragic as the actual performance of bulldozer. Generally speaking that was the only time i can recall any "hype" or outright "lies" coming from AMD... so your "stench" of fraud is a nasty bit of a hyperbole that really has no place here.

3) Not sure why nvidia is part of a talk about AMD cpus.

4) part of the reason a nearly 4 year old cpu is still relevant is because improved performance hasn't really yielded any significant advantages. Speaking strictly as a tech, apart from system load times i can't tell you what the advantage of haswell intel quad core is over a nearly 4 year old phenom II. Stick an SSD on that phenom II and i dare anyone to tell me which system is running an intel and which is running an amd... i'd be willing to bet people will be picking the amd thinking it's the haswell.

CPUs are crazy fast... and while there are a select few places where having a more powerful intel will yeild noticeable results, for 99% of users in 99% of their daily life those situations simply aren't in play.

Frankly, the reason why the computer industry is struggling to move units (apart from universal rejection of windows 8 and the rise of tablet/smartphone computing) is because an 8 year old core2duo or dual core athlon 64 is more then enough computer for the VAST majority of computer users out there. And until day to day programs start to challenge those old machines we won't see a huge rush to update.

Hell, most office computers out there are STILL old p4s on the netburst architecture, which can comfortably run windows 7 and Microsoft office 2007.

Until the software side catches up those old phenomIIs will remain attractive alternatives to more expensive (and powerful) dual core i3s and Pentiums. Throw in the fact that piledriver is at best a draw with those old phIIs in terms of IPC, and there is no motivation to buy a fx 43xx over an older quad core phenom. The only motivation currently for someone to reach above that phenomII is if someone has a monitor with greater then 60hz refresh rate, or multiple monitors or is planning to play in 4k resolution.

That's not propaganda... that's just the depressing facts of the industry... where a chip manufacturer can produce a chip with 66% of the per core performance of it's only competitor (piledriver vs haswell) and remain relevant because that 66% performance is GOOD ENOUGH for almost everyone with a computer, gamer or otherwise.

5) superpi? really? AMD hasn't supported the x87 floating point language in a LONG time... frankly the industry hasn't outside of a few lazy game manufacturers for over a decade. About all superpi is good for is benching memory speeds. if you're using it for something else then you might as well be quoting other questionable benches like cinebench.

 

[Novuake]

These fanboys are getting too much!

 

[ingtar33]

These fanboys are getting too much!

next thing we'll be getting overrun by people sporting cute pony avatars. gotta watch out for that type. seriously shady.