Anand speaks of the HAMMERS POWER

[spud]

Then they will have commercials and advertisement that doesnt include fagboy fanboys and dudes on the net that create bogus scores of chips that dont exist to the market yet. Go IBM...

-Jeremy

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[eden]

I am not saying this is a literal situation. I am saying they are TRYING to reduce competition. Do you know that Intel can at anytime rush new products and squash AMD?

Let's face it, at the moment, the highest and strongest CPU they can have is a 2.4GHZ A64 and that is pushing it. Intel can rush their 0.09m, albeit hot, and get the Prescott out. Now I don't think anyone can disagree that Intel CAN at anytime rush out a lot of products and beat AMD. That is what they did in the past year. In the past year the P4 got over 50% more clock speed, AND got a good 20% IPC boost that doesn't come so infrequently btw. The rush from the 2GHZ Wilamette to the 1.6A-3.2GHZ NW C was fast and strong.
The only thing Intel is doing now is SLOWING DOWN. The last CPU before the 3.2GHZ was a 3GHZ, and the one before it, the 3.06GHZ, came out in NOVEMBER LAST YEAR, while the 3.2GHZ came out not so far away from the 3GHZ. Surely you noticed they slowed down?
They had nothing to do lately in fact, until Sept. 23rd. The P4Cs simply arse-screw the AthlonXPs, there is NO competition. Why should Intel continue releasing?

As it is, they ARE slowing down for AMD. If they do too much, their revenues go down on each processor that COULD'VE yeilded more revenue with an extended period of market availability, if they do too much with price drops, they also finish AMD off with even more value. Then AMD has little to offer, Intel dominates. I don't want that to happen.
And therefore they HAVE to slow down and keep a steady pace.

Sorry, but if you want a nice budget and well performing PC, it's gonna be an AMD.

That applies to LOW-END. Mid-end now is owned by Intel. A P4 2.4C at 160$ which can outperform even the 3200+ which costs more than twice, and has more value with HT, is a HUGE VALUE over whatever AMD is offering in the mid-to-high-end.
So you don't entirely have a point here.

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[eden]

Intel being the only player just because AMD screws themselves.

Intel is doing that right now: slowing down and keeping the courts out just because AMD screws themselves.

And yes if they went too far they WOULD have court cases. A monopoly causes too much problems. Think back to the P2 days and the CPU Prices. No one here wants to ever return to that era and since we have become to sensible to CPU prices, we would definitely boycott 1000$ CPU prices. Intel at the moment seems smart and realizes that, so they don't overdo prices. At best, they'll let the inflation rate do the job.

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[kinney]

Wow some nice logic coming from eden this time.

As far as maximum profitability, without removing the competition which would be disasterous.. Intel is at the peak of its game. I'd have to agree.

Of course a $1K CPU sounds like GREAT profit. But that might last about 6months before they end up in court.

Your theory sounds right. But we really don't know.

If AMD IS holding up as well as they appear (not financially of course), it would be quite the feat and thus far wouldve been a huge accomplishment for AMD.

I lean towards that direction as I don't know if large corporations play such games with companies who at the slightest sign of weakness will attempt to destroy the competition.
Like that other guy said.

Look at ATI, large "VPU" maker who was around long before NV.. probably would highly regret any "playing" they did with NV. Just an example

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[eden]

I lean towards that direction as I don't know if large corporations play such games with companies who at the slightest sign of weakness will attempt to destroy the competition.
Like that other guy said.

Look at ATI, large "VPU" maker who was around long before NV.. probably would highly regret any "playing" they did with NV. Just an example

I am a bit confused as to what you are trying to say. Could you restate that please?

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[kinney]

Well, eden.
Like that other guy said, I doubt that intel would purposely do such a thing.. a great example are those headlines he posted.

The rise of Nvidia was in the presense of many old, respectable chipset makers. Though none had the advantage Intel does.
If they wouldve, it would be much to their dismay to let NV or another successful company climb to the top.
The tech business isnt one that you generally play like that.

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[eden]

Still, I don't see many reasons why Intel slowed down releasing CPUs, other than because they got nothing to get ahead of.

I would believe the physical limit issue, but I think that wouldn't explain the long period before the 3GHZ was out.

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[kinney]

It costs money to put things out. Like you said, no need to pull out the stops when theres no competition.
Whilst AMD partnered with NV to do whatever it took to gain more performance (400FSB) and of course, the venerable NF2.
Acts of competition, but not enough to take the crown.

The yields were probably not only low on 3ghz parts.
You raise an interesting question though.


I am waiting and hoping the day comes when IBM buys out AMD. Then we'll see some REAL competition to Intel.
It already appears as if its a IBM/Nvidia/AMD faction versus Intel/ATI.

Then it would be more even, IBM/NV vs. Intel/ATI... a better matchup for the consumer.
But probably not desirable for Intel.

Then a 3rd party would make life even better!
Maybe VIA/S3.. haha... VIA, I <b>HATE</b> that companys products. Though coming from a AMD user, of course.

Speaking of the VIA/S3 conglomeration, I havent heard much of new S3 chipsets...

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[Groveling_Wyrm]

The only problem with the IBM buying AMD out thing.....is that IBM is NOT in a position to buy AMD out right now, nor will be within the next 5 years.

How do I know this? I own shares of IBM, and I keep track of IBM.

Here's some numbers...

<A HREF="http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=AMD" target="_new"> AMD's Balance Sheet </A>

<A HREF="http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=IBM" target="_new"> IBM's Balance Sheet </A>

As you will see, it would take massive amounts of money to purchase AMD. This would jeopardize IBM's whole operations, and would extremely decrease IBM's liquidable assets, almost to the point that IBM could end up getting hurt BAD in the world economy if the economy took yet another downturn.

Can IBM afford this, even though they are posting 1 Billion dollar profits? No, they won't risk it. Will they partake in joint AMD-IBM ventures? Yes, and they already are doing a few, which, like a symbiotic relationship, help both companies without hurting either one.

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[slvr_phoenix]

As you will see, it would take massive amounts of money to purchase AMD. This would jeopardize IBM's whole operations, and would extremely decrease IBM's liquidable assets, almost to the point that IBM could end up getting hurt BAD in the world economy if the economy took yet another downturn.

No no no no no.

IBM would not buy out AMD the company.

IBM would buy out AMD's x86 processor intellectual properties. (And maybe their FAB space and engineers.)

Every other department of AMD does just fine. It's only their processor division that's screwing them up. And IBM would have no real use for any other part of AMD anyway. So it'd make far more sense for AMD to just give up the processor business before it drags them down too far than to run themselves into the ground and never do any business ever again.

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[slvr_phoenix]

And as for Intel purposefully restraining themselves so that AMD has enough time to do things right, and Intel <i>wanting</i> AMD to gain more market share, Eden is spot on.

If Intel gains much more of the x86 processor market then government anti-monopoly regulations would be thrown at them and likely so would many lawsuits. In the long run it would actually cost Intel more money to crush AMD than it would to let AMD gain a little more market share.

Intel slowing down allows them to slow down speed ramps without changing prices much so that they make a lot more money per sale than they would in a highly-competetive market. Furhter, it allows Intel to cut back on R&D costs and again, to make more money per chip which improves their margins. And better margins make their stock portfolio look better, which earns them more money. And of course there is, as I said, the avoidance of being hit by anti-monopoly jurisdiction by the government and anti-competetive lawsuits that would only cost them money.

So in other words from a financial standpoint Intel has every reason to <i>not</i> compete and in fact to even give AMD as much time as they possibly can so that AMD <i>can</i> gain more market share. It might seem crazy, but it's true.

And as Eden pointed out the only reason that VIA even has a processor division still is because Intel want's them to gain market share too. The Ultra-Low Voltage Mobile Celeron just totally kicks the pants off of VIA's 'low power' CPUs in performance, heat output, and low power usage. I suspect that a PentiumM has the potential to rock that world even further being a hybrid between the P3 and the P4 with some sweet little mobile power-saving tricks. If Intel wanted to, they could <i>easily</i> compete against VIA's dinky little CPUs and totally crush them. The simple fact is that they have absolutely nothing to gain and raise their risks of loss considerably if they were to do so.

So truly, Intel has become uncompetetive (not anti-competetive) because with as much market share as Intel has, it just makes good business sense to stop trying to crush the competition. They have everything to lose and nothing to gain by fiercely competing.

<pre><A HREF="http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20030905" target="_new"><font color=black>People don't understand how hard being a dark god can be. - Hastur</font color=black></A></pre><p>

 

[kinney]

Thats interesting. I'd never checked up on IBM before.
Maybe if AMD goes broke they can buy them out. I'd just like to see some large corporation like IBM firing AMDs cannons at intel.

I do a little dabbling in the stock market, nothing serious. Just a little Ameritrade account, I've bought and sold enough in the last 4 years that I've turned $2000 into $4000 though.
Postin' a profit!

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[eden]

Just so I don't sound like the smart businessman, I admit I got both of the things you agree with, from you. So you owe yourself your own credit.

But yeah, you did raise the right points and I made sure I learned from that.

Actually wait, <b>I</b> came up with the VIA Intel argument, OMG. Heheh. 😎

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