Anomen: cleric or fighter?

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Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

"Kish" <Kish_K@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:cyXec.22236$Ow1.4229@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com...
> John Salerno wrote:
> > Gwalchgwynn wrote:
> >
> >> I wouldn't replace Anomen. He does make a good tank, even in ToB
( I have
> >> him dual wielding the Flail of the Ages and Storm Star) and his
base
> >> THAC0
> >> is the same as Korgan and Sarevok because THAC0 stops improving
once
> >> it hits
> >> 0.
> >
> >
> > Ok, so my original party sounds good then?
> >
> > Salastus, Imoen, Anomen, Minsc, Jaheira, Yoshimo (and probably
Keldorn
> > until I get Imoen back).
>
> Yes, that's a strong party.

As I said before - When you get Imoen back, it'll be Keldorn that
you're keeping. You'll know exactly why... because you'll find out,
about halfway through Chapter 4, and shortly before you get Imoen
back. Enjoy playing until then.

Jonathan.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

John Salerno wrote:

> Jonathan Ellis wrote:
>
>> Actually, the trouble with THAT is, that as Imoen levels up, the rest
>> of the group levels up at the same pace... so if Imoen is behind,
>> she'll always be behind.
>
>
> Thanks for all that info! As far as the above quote, won't it be the
> case that she gains faster than the others, since they will be higher
> than her?

How would that follow?

Suppose your PC has 10,000 xp, and Imoen have 5,000.

You both gain 20,000 xp.

Now your PC has 30,000, and Imoen has 25,000. The gap hasn't closed a bit.

>
> Ok, so before going on to chapter 7, I'll be able to do everything in the game, and with my full party?

Unless you want to trade a party member out for the NPC who offers to
join at the beginning of Chapter Eight. I'd suggest leaving Watcher's
Keep to Chapter Eight, in any event.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

"Gwalchgwynn" <Gwalchgwynn@donotsendspamtome.net> wrote in message
news:etWec.15880$1U2.15080@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> I wouldn't replace Anomen. He does make a good tank, even in ToB

It appears that we've been blessed with the overly ham-fisted
version of Anomen, eh? 🙂
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

"John Salerno" <johnjsalNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:407c5c42$0$2796$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
> Jonathan Ellis wrote:
>
> > Actually, the trouble with THAT is, that as Imoen levels up, the
rest
> > of the group levels up at the same pace... so if Imoen is behind,
> > she'll always be behind.
>
> Thanks for all that info! As far as the above quote, won't it be the
> case that she gains faster than the others, since they will be
higher
> than her? So she should catch up to them?

No. Once you get above level 9 or 10, XP is *constant* to the next
level - not increasing from level to level. The only difference is by
class - and, in fact, mages have it worse on that score: it takes a
larger (but CONSTANT) sum of XP to increase a mage's level, for any
level higher than 10, than it takes to increase a fighter's level. So,
if you are a mage, and Imoen is behind you when you recover her, she
and you will always be EXACTLY the same distance apart in XP. It's
just that, as you get to higher and higher levels, the *difference*
will matter less and less.

It's like, if somebody is 4 years older than you, then they stay 4
years older than you for the rest of their lives. But when you're a
kid, four years is a lot - when you're thirty, four years age
difference is nothing.

Jonathan.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

Jonathan Ellis wrote:

> No. Once you get above level 9 or 10, XP is *constant* to the next
> level - not increasing from level to level.

Ah, that's what I didn't know. I was thinking it mattered by level, so
eventually they'd even out. Well, I'm going to work toward getting her
back then. It's sort of an odd gameplay decision to take away a member
of your party, given that it can have this drawback of her missing all
the XP from the Ch. 2-3 quests.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

John Salerno wrote:

>
>
> Jonathan Ellis wrote:
>
>> No. Once you get above level 9 or 10, XP is *constant* to the next
>> level - not increasing from level to level.
>
>
> Ah, that's what I didn't know. I was thinking it mattered by level, so
> eventually they'd even out. Well, I'm going to work toward getting her
> back then. It's sort of an odd gameplay decision to take away a member
> of your party, given that it can have this drawback of her missing all
> the XP from the Ch. 2-3 quests.

It's not that much of a drawback if you haven't removed the experience
cap or installed ToB, as she will can reach level 17 before the end even
if you do every Chapter 2 quest before you leave.

--
"Who is Mos Eisley?"
--Anton Pollinger
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

Graeme Dice wrote:


> It's not that much of a drawback if you haven't removed the experience
> cap or installed ToB, as she will can reach level 17 before the end even
> if you do every Chapter 2 quest before you leave.

Well, I have installed ToB, but I'm guessing it's still not *that* big
of a deal.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

"John Salerno" <johnjsalNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:407c1fea$0$2752$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
> Wim Dekker wrote:
>
> > He's a good tank: he can absorb a lot of damage because of
> > his high hit points and good AC. But he's a lousy fighter when
> > it comes to dealing damage, because of his bad THAC0.
>
> The main reason I wanted him was because I'm always convinced I need a
> cleric. (I had the same issue in BG1, even though I decided to use
> Jaheira as my healer, and that was no problem.) So would you say I don't
> really need a cleric, if I have Jaheira? Maybe I can replace Anomen with
> Keldorn or Valygar.

A cleric is very handy for a couple of reasons. When comparing
to a druid, a cleric can do things a druid can not. The most
important in my opinion are:
- Turning undead (high level clerics even destroy a lich)
- Raise party members (Jaheira can do that too).
- Protection from Evil 10' radius, which gives
the party a 2 bonus to saves and the enemy a 2
penalty to attack rolls. Has a long duration.
- Holy Smite: party frienly area damaging spell
(unless you have evil party members).
- Remove Paralysis, also an area spells
- Sunray, can destroy multiple undeads.

Anomen is a pretty good cleric and can get better,
depending on the outcome of his major quest. When
you find him, he is not really good, because his
WIS is not high enough to give him bonus spells.

Wim
 
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"Wim Dekker" <a@b.c> wrote in message
news:407cfa21$0$559$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>
> "John Salerno" <johnjsalNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:407c1fea$0$2752$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
> > Wim Dekker wrote:
> >
> > > He's a good tank: he can absorb a lot of damage because of
> > > his high hit points and good AC. But he's a lousy fighter when
> > > it comes to dealing damage, because of his bad THAC0.
> >
> > The main reason I wanted him was because I'm always convinced I
need a
> > cleric. (I had the same issue in BG1, even though I decided to use
> > Jaheira as my healer, and that was no problem.) So would you say I
don't
> > really need a cleric, if I have Jaheira? Maybe I can replace
Anomen with
> > Keldorn or Valygar.
>
> A cleric is very handy for a couple of reasons. When comparing
> to a druid, a cleric can do things a druid can not. The most
> important in my opinion are:
> - Turning undead (high level clerics even destroy a lich)
> - Raise party members (Jaheira can do that too).
> - Protection from Evil 10' radius, which gives
> the party a 2 bonus to saves and the enemy a 2
> penalty to attack rolls. Has a long duration.
> - Holy Smite: party frienly area damaging spell
> (unless you have evil party members).
> - Remove Paralysis, also an area spells
> - Sunray, can destroy multiple undeads.
>
> Anomen is a pretty good cleric and can get better,
> depending on the outcome of his major quest. When
> you find him, he is not really good, because his
> WIS is not high enough to give him bonus spells.

Actually, the bonus spells don't matter all that much, as the only
bonus spells he would get are *low level* spells. You can always
sacrifice a Cure Light Wounds or two from first level, if you want to
keep whatever you decide is the right number of Bless, Entangle,
Remove Fear or Armor of Faith: and second level is perhaps the most
useless level of cleric spell, Draw Upon Holy Might notwithstanding
(Anomen is one of the few clerics that *that* spell is actually useful
for: since neither Aerie nor Viconia is going to be doing much in
melee combat.)

With spells of 3rd or higher levels, with turning undead, and with
fighting ability, Anomen is just as good before his knighthood (or
after he has failed his knighthood test) as afterwards.

Of course the real reason why many don't like him is that he's
perceived to be an arrogant, pompous twit...

Jonathan.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

Jonathan Ellis wrote:

> Of course the real reason why many don't like him is that he's
> perceived to be an arrogant, pompous twit...

Well, if I could make it through BG1 with Khalid's whining, this
probably won't be much worse. :)

Not that I'm happy about what happened to Khalid...
 
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"Bob" <virtualgoth@die_spammer.com> wrote in message
news:407c3d71$0$3714$45beb828@newscene.com...
> John wrote variously:
>
> > Imoen and Jaheira can attacked with bows,
>
> Jaheira can't use a bow, just darts or a sling.
>
>
> > Jaheira as my healer, and that was no problem.) So would you say I don't
> > really need a cleric, if I have Jaheira? Maybe I can replace Anomen with
> > Keldorn or Valygar.
>
> Jaheira can't turn undead; Anomen can. I generally include a "real"
> cleric -- either Anomen or Aerie -- for that ability.
>
> If I keep Jaheira in a party, it's for the side-quests associated with
her,
> rather than because her character is an effective addition to the party.
> The most useful things I get out of her are Insect Plague (or its
beefed-up
> brother, Creeping Doom) or Summon Fire Elemental (or at higher levels,
> Summon Elemental Prince).
>
Try using her as a tank. With her low AC (when using
full plate and shield) and Iron Skins she holds on very
long. Let her lead the formation and attrack all enemies
while she's casting Insect Plague or Call Lightning.
Because of the Iron Skins, the casting will not be
interrupted most of the times. Give her a good club or
scimitar and let her fight in melee.

She also combines very well with a kensai: the kensai
attacks without being attacked and Jaheira can cast
Bark Skin on the kensai on forehand for a little AC
bonus. This makes good use of the otherwise mostly
useless level 2 druid spells and releases a level 4 mage
spell (Spirit Armor).

Wim
 
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John Salerno:
> I haven't encountered him yet, but I'm thinking about who I want my
> party to be. I'd like to have a cleric, but I was wondering if he dualed
> to a cleric, or if he's a fighter now.

It might be worth noting you can make either cleric or fighter of
Anomen. Or indeed both. 🙂


With warm regards,
Scobin
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

Scobin wrote:

> John Salerno:
>
>>I haven't encountered him yet, but I'm thinking about who I want my
>>party to be. I'd like to have a cleric, but I was wondering if he dualed
>>to a cleric, or if he's a fighter now.
>
>
> It might be worth noting you can make either cleric or fighter of
> Anomen. Or indeed both. 🙂

What do you mean?
 
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John Salerno <johnjsalNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<407d3093$0$2790$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>...
> Jonathan Ellis wrote:
>
> > Of course the real reason why many don't like him is that he's
> > perceived to be an arrogant, pompous twit...

Perceived?

>
> Well, if I could make it through BG1 with Khalid's whining, this
> probably won't be much worse. :)

I don't recall Khalid ever whining in BG1, unless you consider
st-st-stutter-er-ring to be whining. In any even, Anomen is far worse
than anything you could imagine, even in the worst Harlequin romance
novel. Not that I would know anything about that 🙂

>
> Not that I'm happy about what happened to Khalid...
 
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"John Salerno" <johnjsalNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:407d86d5$0$2816$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
>
>
> Scobin wrote:
>
> > John Salerno:
> >
> >>I haven't encountered him yet, but I'm thinking about who I want
my
> >>party to be. I'd like to have a cleric, but I was wondering if he
dualed
> >>to a cleric, or if he's a fighter now.
> >
> >
> > It might be worth noting you can make either cleric or fighter of
> > Anomen. Or indeed both. 🙂
>
> What do you mean?

In fact his advice is true but misleading.

You can *consider* him to be a fighter who casts cleric spells. In
which case you load him up with spells that boost his own fighting
ability - things that increase his strength, hitting power, that kind
of thing - and give him Grand Mastery in a weapon as you level him up,
and get him to buff himself up BEFORE a combat. Which means that you
need to prepare in advance before any given combat - scout out areas,
know where the enemies are, and attack them when YOU are ready.
Classic spells are such as Draw Upon Holy Might, Righteous Magic,
Blade Barrier, Harm (and all the other Cause Wounds spells), Holy
Power - all of these spells are far less useful to a non-fighting
cleric such as Aerie or Viconia, as neither is ever going to hit
anything in combat or have more than one attack per round, and both
have few hit points.

Or you can *consider* him to be a cleric who can fight a bit. In which
case the spells you load him up with are the Healing-type, or the
"party buffing" type - Remove Fear, Bless, Chant, Negative Plane
Protection (which he can use on himself or an ally), Chaotic
Commands - or on combat spells such as Flame Strike and Holy Smite.
And when you don't want him casting spells, you can either throw him
into the front lines, albeit with a slightly lesser effect than if he
was boosting his own fighter ability with divine power - or you can
having shooting from the back lines with a *sling* - in this case,
specifically, the Sling of Seeking (buy it from Bernard after you have
investigated the Copper Coronet's back rooms), because that will get
the to-damage bonus from Anomen's high strength. It's wasted on a
slinger with low strength.

The beauty of this is, you can switch between either of the different
ways of using Anomen, over any given eight-hour rest as long as you
prepare before resting - to memorise the different set of spells. Work
out what you want to do with him, and select spells to complement it.

And he can turn undead. He is the very best undead-turner in the
entire game - he is the only one who can destroy high-level undead
outright while still in the main game.

(Aerie only gains cleric levels at half the rate - she is gaining mage
levels at half-speed too - so she can only destroy high-level
vampires, mummies and liches near the end of the expansion set - while
Viconia, who is evil, controls undead instead of destroying them.
Controlling them would be cool if you could take them with you and set
them on non-undead enemies: but typically undead and non-undead
enemies don't mix often, and you can't take controlled undead between
areas - and they will be waiting for you, hostile again, when you come
back, so controlling undead with an evil cleric is only of use if you
intend to have the rest of your party hack them to death without the
undead fighting back.)

Jonathan.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.baldurs-gate (More info?)

Jonathan Ellis wrote:

> having shooting from the back lines with a *sling* - in this case,
> specifically, the Sling of Seeking (buy it from Bernard after you have
> investigated the Copper Coronet's back rooms), because that will get
> the to-damage bonus from Anomen's high strength. It's wasted on a
> slinger with low strength.

Does this particular sling use STR? Because don't most only rely on DEX?

Anyway, thanks for all that advice about how to use him. It seems like a
pretty hand guy to have around. Right now I'm headed to the De'Arnise
keep so I can help Nalia with her quest, then I'm going to head back and
pick up Keldorn (and drop Nalia), then investigate the Trademeet
problem. Depending on how much gold I have after that, I'll see if I can
help Imoen yet. I'll also spend some time exploring Athkatla.
 
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"John Salerno" <johnjsalNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:407db179$0$2769$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
> Jonathan Ellis wrote:
>
> > having shooting from the back lines with a *sling* - in this case,
> > specifically, the Sling of Seeking (buy it from Bernard after you
have
> > investigated the Copper Coronet's back rooms), because that will
get
> > the to-damage bonus from Anomen's high strength. It's wasted on a
> > slinger with low strength.
>
> Does this particular sling use STR? Because don't most only rely on
DEX?

Yes, this particular sling gives you a bonus to damage based on high
strength - something that is normally limited to melee weapons only.
Missile-launcher weapons (bows, slings, crossbows) normally DO NOT get
any bonuses to-damage at all, apart from the enchantment on the
missile and the enchantment on the launcher - dexterity only helps out
with the to-hit. The Sling of Seeking is the exception. With Anomen's
strength, he will get an extra +4 damage points per strike with that
sling - Jaheira would get nothing by comparison.

(Of course, if you have the sling wielded by somebody wearing a Girdle
of Hill Giant Strength, which gives you 19 strength and can be bought
from Ribald Barterman, that person would get +7 damage per strike with
the sling. But the girdle is wasted on a non-melee character, and
Anomen barely needs it - Jaheira needs it much more, when you buy it.)

Other things you may find useful:

(1) magical blunt weapons - some things are immune to slashing or
crushing damage.
(2) +2 weapons - some things are even immune to normal +1 magic
weapons.
(3) +3 weapons - there are a VERY few enemies in the game that are
even immune to a +2 weapon.
(4) weapons that provide elemental damage: these can disrupt an
enemy's spell even when they have cast Stoneskin.

There's a weapon that fulfils all four criteria, to be found (in
several pieces), in De'Arnise Keep itself... and you'll be pointed to
it by an NPC in-game, as a hint as soon as you get inside the castle.
After you have killed the final boss, do not leave the castle unless
you have found all three pieces and completed the weapon - you will
not be able to get back in.

Oh, and look out for the other magic blunt weapon and a pair of other
+3 weapons (in the same place as one of the three parts of the above
artifact), but be prepared for some TOUGH fights to get them. Don't
try to grab the loot all at once in this case...

Jonathan.
 
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Jonathan Ellis wrote:

> Oh, and look out for the other magic blunt weapon and a pair of other
> +3 weapons (in the same place as one of the three parts of the above
> artifact), but be prepared for some TOUGH fights to get them. Don't
> try to grab the loot all at once in this case...

Thanks again, I'll keep an eye out. I'm about to go there now.
 
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"Wim Dekker" <a@b.c> wrote in message
news:407cfa21$0$559$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>
> "John Salerno" <johnjsalNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:407c1fea$0$2752$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
> > Wim Dekker wrote:
> >
> > > He's a good tank: he can absorb a lot of damage because of
> > > his high hit points and good AC. But he's a lousy fighter when
> > > it comes to dealing damage, because of his bad THAC0.
> >
> > The main reason I wanted him was because I'm always convinced I need a
> > cleric. (I had the same issue in BG1, even though I decided to use
> > Jaheira as my healer, and that was no problem.) So would you say I don't
> > really need a cleric, if I have Jaheira? Maybe I can replace Anomen with
> > Keldorn or Valygar.
>
> A cleric is very handy for a couple of reasons. When comparing
> to a druid, a cleric can do things a druid can not. The most
> important in my opinion are:
> - Turning undead (high level clerics even destroy a lich)
> - Raise party members (Jaheira can do that too).
> - Protection from Evil 10' radius, which gives
> the party a 2 bonus to saves and the enemy a 2
> penalty to attack rolls. Has a long duration.
> - Holy Smite: party frienly area damaging spell
> (unless you have evil party members).
> - Remove Paralysis, also an area spells
> - Sunray, can destroy multiple undeads.

Don't forget Chaotic Commands. Provides immunity against Psonics. Don't
leave home without it--and only cleric's have it. With Chaotic Commands and
a good melee fighter, you can take out quite a number of psonic enemies.

Gary



>
> Anomen is a pretty good cleric and can get better,
> depending on the outcome of his major quest. When
> you find him, he is not really good, because his
> WIS is not high enough to give him bonus spells.
>
> Wim
>
>
 
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"Gary Lee" <GaryLeeB@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:ullfc.25141$K_.653625@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> "Wim Dekker" <a@b.c> wrote in message
> news:407cfa21$0$559$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
> >
> > "John Salerno" <johnjsalNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:407c1fea$0$2752$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
> > > Wim Dekker wrote:
> > >
> > > > He's a good tank: he can absorb a lot of damage because of
> > > > his high hit points and good AC. But he's a lousy fighter when
> > > > it comes to dealing damage, because of his bad THAC0.
> > >
> > > The main reason I wanted him was because I'm always convinced I need a
> > > cleric. (I had the same issue in BG1, even though I decided to use
> > > Jaheira as my healer, and that was no problem.) So would you say I
don't
> > > really need a cleric, if I have Jaheira? Maybe I can replace Anomen
with
> > > Keldorn or Valygar.
> >
> > A cleric is very handy for a couple of reasons. When comparing
> > to a druid, a cleric can do things a druid can not. The most
> > important in my opinion are:
> > - Turning undead (high level clerics even destroy a lich)
> > - Raise party members (Jaheira can do that too).
> > - Protection from Evil 10' radius, which gives
> > the party a 2 bonus to saves and the enemy a 2
> > penalty to attack rolls. Has a long duration.
> > - Holy Smite: party frienly area damaging spell
> > (unless you have evil party members).
> > - Remove Paralysis, also an area spells
> > - Sunray, can destroy multiple undeads.
>
> Don't forget Chaotic Commands. Provides immunity against Psonics. Don't
> leave home without it--and only cleric's have it. With Chaotic Commands
and
> a good melee fighter, you can take out quite a number of psonic enemies.
>
Yep, an important spell, but druids have it too.

Wim
 
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Jonathan Ellis wrote:

> Of course the real reason why many don't like [Anomen] is that he's
> perceived to be <snip>

a sanctimonious hypocritical racist low-life sleazebag.

--
Arian

Address me by name at North-net (with no hyphen), a 3-letter company
trading in the great south land.
 
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"Arian" <h7zfu9202@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:c5kv81$31r0f$1@ID-92952.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Jonathan Ellis wrote:
>
> > Of course the real reason why many don't like [Anomen] is that he's
> > perceived to be <snip>
>
> a sanctimonious hypocritical racist low-life sleazebag.
>
> --
> Arian

But some of us love him anyway. :)

Cyn
 
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Cynthia Crise wrote:

> "Arian" <h7zfu9202@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
> news:c5kv81$31r0f$1@ID-92952.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
>>Jonathan Ellis wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Of course the real reason why many don't like [Anomen] is that he's
>>>perceived to be <snip>
>>
>>a sanctimonious hypocritical racist low-life sleazebag.

> But some of us love him anyway. :)

We've had this conversation before. :-D

--
Arian

Address me by name at North-net (with no hyphen), a 3-letter company
trading in the great south land.
 
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"Arian" <h7zfu9202@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:c5l6v6$2ujgf$2@ID-92952.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Cynthia Crise wrote:
>
> > "Arian" <h7zfu9202@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
> > news:c5kv81$31r0f$1@ID-92952.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> >>Jonathan Ellis wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Of course the real reason why many don't like [Anomen] is that he's
> >>>perceived to be <snip>
> >>
> >>a sanctimonious hypocritical racist low-life sleazebag.
>
> > But some of us love him anyway. :)
>
> We've had this conversation before. :-D
>
> --
> Arian
>
> Address me by name at North-net (with no hyphen), a 3-letter company
> trading in the great south land.
>
LOL, yes we have, but then, we've all had every conversation already. :)

Cyn
 
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