Another i7 4790K Temp Reading Question

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the Tom's Hardware community: where nearly two million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Zi1ian

Reputable
Jan 14, 2015
6
0
4,510
I'd like to preface this by saying my knowledge of computers is fairly limited. I've put together a computer before by following step by step instructions. For the most part, including the PC I am writing about, I have a friend help build for me.

I recently upgraded my computer's CPU and Motherboard to an Intel i7 4790K and the ASUS Maximus VII Hero. I also changed my CPU fan to the Corsair H100i. My question involves the i7 4790K's temperature readings. Most commentators recommended RMA, but some of those still had the same issues after RMA. I've found a few posts and comments on various forums, this one included, that noted that Intel has claimed that most programs are unable to accurately assess the i7 4790K's true core temperatures. And I'm hoping to see if anyone can either share with me a source or a similar experience to confirm that what I am experiencing (described below) is not an actual, functional issue.

After I upgraded to the CPU, mobo, and fan, I did not notice any functional problems. It ran and continues to run amazingly well. However, the reason for my upgrade was because my 13-month old Antec Kuhler 650 stopped working and fried my old CPU. So I've become a little paranoid about temperature. I installed Dragon Age Inquisition and played for about an hour. Not a single ounce of a problem- completely smooth, flawless, no lag, or any other concerns. However, before I exited, I figured I'd give RealTemp 3.70 a look to see the temperature and, to my surprise, all cores were listed in the 90's and apparently had been sitting there for probably the entire time (based on the timestamp for maximum temp).

Naturally, I started freaking out a bit trying to figure out what the problem was. Across my hours of Google searches, I came across varying stories of recent bad batches of the i7 4790K or other people posting about cheap components. But a small strain of posts described my scenario perfectly (like http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2375114/corsair-h100-4790k-bad-temp-reading.html). Although RealTemp immediately reports drastically higher temperatures when under load and my CPU fan immediately kicks into overdrive, nothing else actually happens.

I ran two tests. First, I opened up my tower while the PC was running. I loaded up Dragon Age with Real Temp up. Immediately the temperature jumps from the high 30's to the 90's and up. However, my well-secured CPU fan is blowing cold air. It was still blowing cold air after 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 20 minutes, and even 30 minutes. All the while, I had no problems with the computer lagging even a fraction of a second. And previously when I was playing for an hour, I also had zero issues.

Next, I downloaded SpeedFan 4.50 and opened both Real Temp 3.70 and SpeedFan 4.50 to compare. At idle, Real Temp reported 39, 37, 38, 37 C temperatures @ Load <1%. SpeedFan reported CPU 37 C with 2012 RPM CPU fan, 670 RPM Aux Fan, and 959 RPM Aux 2 Fan. Sure enough, when I opened Dragon Age, Real Temp's numbers spiked to 95, 96, 98, 90 @ 54% load. However, Speedfan reported CPU 54 C. The CPU Fan, Aux Fan, and Aux2 Fan increased to 2818 RPM, 918 RPM, and 2642 RPM, respectively. The remaining increases for SpeedFan, if any, were negligible. SpeedFan also did note a change in the VcoreRef-Vin4 value from 0.35V to 0.62 V. None of the other Vcore values changed.

A lot of the posts I've seen have quickly dismissed SpeedFan's results over Real Temp's. Unfortunately for me, SpeedFan's results are the only ones that make sense. Any help in confirming or pointing me in the right direction would be greatly appreciated!
 
Solution
Guys,

The reason why there are so many conflicting reports of different temperatures, is that everyone tests their rigs with different stress tests, clock speeds, Vcore, coolers, ambient temperatures and measuring utilities that read two different types of processor temperatures.

Add to that the fact that almost no one bothers to look up Intel's specs, which aren't written to make any sense to anyone anyway. Then there's the term "load" that gets tossed around like gorilla poo in a cage. Load? Which load? What load? Load is a very subjective term.

Applications, rendering, encoding and gaming are partial workloads with fluctuating temperatures, and aren't suitable for thermal testing or comparing temperatures, but they're great...
To be frank, i'm more confused than i started - went and did another video file, about a 58 minute transcode time, and when i was thru (i'd left the XTU utility open) i selected 1 hour for review and holy moly, temps had hit 99-100C for most of the time, with cpu useage at 100% - doesn't make sense as windows task manager has never shown 100% in the program i was running. Intel's xtu showed memory useage at close to 8GB (out of 16), where windows task manager has only shown 4.93 - 6 gb, so i'm not sure which program is reporting correctly.

my setup is in a SFF case, so ventilation is an issue, but i've got six fans blowing fresh air in, and one double fan exhausting. But my intel box cooler is sitting literaly 1 & 3/16" below the PSU's intake fan, so that psu fan has got to be stealing air from the cpu fan (or creating a negative pressure air zone above it, ie a vacuum). I've ordered some heatsink paste and when it comes in, i'll remove the intel cooler, clean and re-apply with new thermal paste.
I've got an idea for a baffle that will force the psu fan to take it's air from outside, and then i'll run xtu again - if i see high temps still, i'll either go with a water cooling system (putting the radiator outside the computer case) or call intel and see about a RMA.

If you go the RMA route, would love to know if it corrects your situation.

 

CompuTronix

Intel Master
Moderator


Correction ... do NOT use any versions of Prime95 later than 26.6. Here's why:

Core i 2nd, 3rd and 4th Generation CPU's have AVX (Advanced Vector Extension) instruction sets. Recent versions of Prime95 such as 28.5 run AVX code on the Floating Point Unit (FPU) math coprocessor, which produces unrealistically high temperatures. The FPU test in the software utility AIDA64 shows the same results.

Prime95 v26.6 produces temperatures on 3rd and 4th Generation processors more consistent with 2nd Generation, which also have AVX instructions, but do not suffer from thermal extremes due to having a soldered Integrated Heat Spreader and a 35% larger Die.

Please download Prime95 version 26.6 - http://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=15504

Run only Small FFT’s for 10 minutes.

Use Real Temp to measure your Core temperatures: Real Temp - http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/2089/real-temp-3-70/

Your Core temperatures will test 10 to 20C lower with v26.6 than with v28.5.

CT :sol:
 

The Orig Ralph

Distinguished
Aug 13, 2011
44
0
18,540
I think i found the answer in this post over in the intel communities forum re the overheating i-74790(k) CPUs. And it ties in with melonhead's stmt about a lot of the issues seem to be occurring with ASUS boards - apparently ASUS sets the power settings (turbo boost max power, turbo boost short max power and processor current limit, to unlimited by default (mine were at 4096W, 4096W and 1090A)

when i brought them down to 96W, 107W and 63A, my temps fell way down - i'm now kissing 80C with no thermal throttling, from 100C with 41-44% throttling before. My higher cpu frequency was limited some to only 3.47Ghz but i believe with the heat sink cleaned and new thermal paste applied, and a better cooler (i'm still using the intel box cooler) i'm thinking a small radiator unit, I should be able to raise the current value some more and bring temps a bit lower as well.

for whatever reason, i couldn't find them in the UEFI Bios, so i assume the OP in the thread below used the other version of bios, but it was actually easier to adjust them in the XTU utility under "Manual Tuning"

here's his post, link to the original thread is at the very bottom


435. Re: How best proceed with overheating i7-4790K?
Tman222 Acolyte
Tman222 Jan 11, 2015 8:39 PM (in response to boolybooly)

Hi All,

Another i7 4790K owner here. My setup includes the i7 4790K processor with Noctua NH-D14 cooler on an Asus Sabertooth Z97 Mark 1 motherboard. This thread has been very helpful to me and I thought I would share my experiences below:

Idle Temps are around 26 - 27 degrees C.

Running the XTU available memory and CPU stress tests results temps close to 70 degrees C @ 4.4GHZ max turbo frequency. Prime 95 has been another story. If I do not limit my turbo boost power max, short power max, and current values, the latest version of Prime 95 (v28.5) works the CPU hard enough that it will reach close to 100 degrees C and begin to thermal throttle almost immediately (this is with the CPU running again at 4.4GHz). Prime95 v27.7 will result in the processor running close to 90 degrees C at 4.4GHz. Prime95 v26.6 results in the temps less than 75 degrees C at 4.4GHZ. Prime95 v28.5 uses FMA extensions and v27.7 uses AVX - both tax the CPU more heavily than v26.6 (which uses neither).

Like many of you above, I got around this by adjusting the turbo power max, turbo short power max, and current values. My motherboard essentially had these values set to unlimited in the BIOS by default. I ended up going with values of 128, 152, and 257 for turbo power max, turbo short power max, and current respectively. Like another Asus motherboard user above, I had to divide my target power values by 8 and put these in the BIOS (i.e. 128 became 16, and 152 became 19) - I believe this might be a bug in Asus' BIOS. Doing so now keeps the temp of the CPU around 75 degrees or better running any kind of stress test, as the Noctua cooler can dissipate a lot more heat than the stock Intel HSF (so I knew I could go above the default 88 TDP value in Intel docs before limiting power). Prime 28.5 now runs at 4.01GHz, and 27.7 at 4.2 GHz - at those levels both are hitting the 128W power limit with temps around 75 degrees. All other stress/load tests run below that power limit @ 4.4GHz with temps less than 75 degrees C. I'm generally very happy with this performance - if it helps any, my chip is of a batch that was made in Vietnam. I'm not thrilled that I had to make these manual adjustments, but might be a motherboard BIOS issue.

It is important to note that both Prime 95 28.5 and v27.7 work the CPU hard enough that it its TDP is higher than 88 Watts at stock speeds (4.0GHz). If you are using the Intel stock cooler, I recommend using an older version of Prime95 to test. I don't think the Intel stock cooler was built around FMA and AVX workloads, but please someone correct me if I'm wrong. In my opinion, at the end of the day, an i7 4790k should be able to run the Intel XTU memory and CPU stress tests close to the 88 Watt TDP at stock speeds (4.0GHz), and with reasonable temperatures, otherwise something is wrong with the cooling setup and/or CPU. It doesn't make sense that Intel would claim an 88 Watt TDP and then provide stress tests that push the CPU much beyond, especially if the stock cooler is designed around that value (I assume it is; someone please correct me if this is incorrect).

I hope this helps some of you out - thank you to everyone again who contributed to this thread, you certainly helped me.

A more detailed writeup of my experience can be found here:

http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=233698



and the link to the thread: https://communities.intel.com/message/273360#273360
 
Status
Not open for further replies.