Anti-Anti-Virus Software

[Guest]

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"Jonathan Wolfson" <jon3825@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119623872.766594.324600@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Me and my friend were trying to set up our laptop so that it could play
> some mpeg file I made to memorialize someone. It had Windows Media
> Player, so all was fine, and there were some issues regarding setting
> it up to play in a digital projector. But every 20 seconds, an urgent
> reminder kept appearing about how I need to update my Norton Antivirus
> file. Every 20 seconds! Because of that, there was a chance that would
> appear every 20 seconds during the presentation, so me and my friend
> uninstalled the Norton Antivirus software. After all, my friend did not
> purchase this or even download it for free- it came with the Compaq.
> The only way to eliminate this problem is to get rid of the software.
> Mo did not care, after all, he has never had a virus in his life. The
> extent of his computer issues relate to spyware, spam, pop-ups, and an
> undefragmented hard drive. Who the hell has ever had a virus anyway?
> Anyone?
>
> These evil companies like Norton and McAfee are far, far worse as
> infectant programs and as time-wasting pieces of memory than I can
> imagine any virus to be. Shame on them! They are far worse than any
> virus that the media dreams up and invents.
>
> Don't you people understand? The whole virus phenomenon is a sham, is a
> way to get you to spend money on anti-virus software, which runs every
> 18 seconds reminding you to download new anti-virus software because
> even though you did not get a virus the last 47,820 times, you might
> get one now.
>
> -Jonathan Wolfson

Troll.

Norton anti-virus may have some issues, but you would be daft to connect to
the internet without anti-virus (and firewall).

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On 24 Jun 2005 12:56:02 -0500, Lou <none@example.org> wrote:

>On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:13:19 -0700, "Kerry Brown"
><kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote:
>
>>Nice troll, should hook a few.
>>
>>Kerry
>
>I give it a 3.5. Far better was "noise as a snore in memory when computer is in
>idle" in mpsv recently, a 7.

It may have been a sincere post, or maybe not. I've certainly heard
similar sentiments before. I think there is a certain amount of
witch-doctor in the approach of certain 'AntiSpy' software
manufacturers. Less so among antivirus companies, but that still
fuels conspiracy theories.

The 'memory snore' is indeed a catchy subject line. Perhaps "Norton's
Nodoz" would work.

What is mpsv? I've recently found this group via google hits on some
problems I was trying to resolve (great group here!). Are there other
similar newsgroups?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"_RR" <_RR@nomail.org> wrote in message
news:gf1pb19m6e4e15unvilaare47rbju5l7uq@4ax.com...
> On 24 Jun 2005 12:56:02 -0500, Lou <none@example.org> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:13:19 -0700, "Kerry Brown"
>><kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote:
>>
>>>Nice troll, should hook a few.
>>>
>>>Kerry
>>
>>I give it a 3.5. Far better was "noise as a snore in memory when computer
>>is in
>>idle" in mpsv recently, a 7.
>
> It may have been a sincere post, or maybe not. I've certainly heard
> similar sentiments before. I think there is a certain amount of
> witch-doctor in the approach of certain 'AntiSpy' software
> manufacturers. Less so among antivirus companies, but that still
> fuels conspiracy theories.
>
> The 'memory snore' is indeed a catchy subject line. Perhaps "Norton's
> Nodoz" would work.
>
> What is mpsv? I've recently found this group via google hits on some
> problems I was trying to resolve (great group here!). Are there other
> similar newsgroups?
>

Set your news server to msnews.microsoft.com There are a plethora of groups
to choose from. It's quicker posting direct to the ms server rather your
isp's and waiting for it to propagate.

Kerry

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in message
news:Os6rv7NeFHA.3012@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
| Jonathan Wolfson wrote:
| > Again, what about pc's that only one person uses? Intrusive AV
| > software should be installed only on PC's that are going to be
| > shared. Companies should sell personal PC's as well as public-used
| > PC's as a distinct category, and only the latter should be equipped
| > to a massive extent with AV software.
| >
|
| LOL! Any PC that is on the net without AV is a likely shared
computer,
| it is just the owner is unaware that it is being shared.

I have a tendency towards a proper education on the use of a computer
than AV software. I do use an online scan every once in a while. I
have
never had a virus or spyware. _EDUCATION_ The OP did state that
the AV was calling home, many of them do.

| If you want a computer built to your specs, then deal with small local
| OEMs, not multinational corporations, or build it yourself.

The above is a very astute statement. Spend a few more bucks and save
tons of grief.

 

[moimeme]

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

And :
- never connect to the web
- never read any mail
- never put in any drive any diskette / CD / suuport that you have not
cretade yourself
- never go WiFi

Any of these actions can get you a virus. Viruses do not alert you before
destroying.
If you get one chances are you loose data - if not backup : gone it is
forever and that can be dramatic ( professionally or emotionnally ( photos
for example)). Or it can transmit personal data or monitor your typed keys
and and and : no limit.

There are many antivirus softwares : on ewill surely work well for you and
not enough interfere with daily work. All are available as try-and-buy : so
no reason to not try.
Just do a backup before, so reverting will be fast and easy as well.

Phil

"kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> a écrit dans le
message de news: Os6rv7NeFHA.3012@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Jonathan Wolfson wrote:
>> Again, what about pc's that only one person uses? Intrusive AV
>> software should be installed only on PC's that are going to be
>> shared. Companies should sell personal PC's as well as public-used
>> PC's as a distinct category, and only the latter should be equipped
>> to a massive extent with AV software.
>>
>
> LOL! Any PC that is on the net without AV is a likely shared computer, it
> is just the owner is unaware that it is being shared.
>
> If you want a computer built to your specs, then deal with small local
> OEMs, not multinational corporations, or build it yourself.
>
> --
> Peace!
> Kurt
> Self-anointed Moderator
> microscum.pubic.windowsexp.gonorrhea
> http://microscum.com/mscommunity
> "Trustworthy Computing" is only another example of an Oxymoron!
> "Produkt-Aktivierung macht frei"
>

 

[Lou]

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:22:49 -0400, _RR <_RR@nomail.org> wrote:

>On 24 Jun 2005 12:56:02 -0500, Lou <none@example.org> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:13:19 -0700, "Kerry Brown"
>><kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote:
>>
>>>Nice troll, should hook a few.
>>>
>>>Kerry
>>
>>I give it a 3.5. Far better was "noise as a snore in memory when computer is in
>>idle" in mpsv recently, a 7.
>
>It may have been a sincere post, or maybe not. I've certainly heard
>similar sentiments before. I think there is a certain amount of
>witch-doctor in the approach of certain 'AntiSpy' software
>manufacturers. Less so among antivirus companies, but that still
>fuels conspiracy theories.
>
>The 'memory snore' is indeed a catchy subject line. Perhaps "Norton's
>Nodoz" would work.
>
>What is mpsv? I've recently found this group via google hits on some
>problems I was trying to resolve (great group here!). Are there other
>similar newsgroups?

MPSV is Microsoft public security virus - it's available on most news servers.

It may be a sincere post, but I doubt it. I sincerely hope nobody is as stupid
as the OP sounds. You absolutely should NOT connect to the internet without a
good layered security, including antivirus.

If your computer labours to run with protection like antivirus, antispyware, and
hardened software, your computer is either already serving software that you
don't know about (ie infected thru lack of security), or it's so feeble that
it's not worth using. With all of the protective software that I consider
necessary, my computer runs maybe 5 - 10% CPU use when idle, and maybe 25 - 30%
when in use, and half of THAT is NOT security software either - its not at all
strained.

Arguing that one should use a computer on the internet, without protection,
because the load of protective software is too onerous to one's computer is just
like someone wanting to disable the brakes on their car because the drag from
the brakes puts a stain on the engine. And as a legal user of the highway would
object to someone tooling down the highway with no brakes, any protected user of
the internet should object to anybody connecting to the internet without any
protection. What the OP does affects all of us.

If he's serious, he's the best case in favour of licensing internet usage, that
I have seen this year. His ISP should be contacted, and he should be
quarantined. He's a bot member in the making, and to not object to his assinine
attitude is irresponsible. If he's simply trolling, and some clueless and naive
person should take him seriously, that would be equally as unacceptable.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

OK, I'll install a freeware AV that was recommended in the thread, if
it is true that my attitude affects other people. I certainly do not
want to harm others. My point was that I have never had a virus even
though I never had AV software. I download lots of things from the
internet and from LimeWire, and I simply do not open suspicious
software or Spam. How else can I possibly get a virus? Whatever, if it
makes you all feel happier and more secure, I will install AV software-
I don't want people angry at me. When I was making a memorial
presentation for a friend who passed away, it was a solemn time, and
Norton AV update reminder kept making loud nolises and interrupting my
effort, every twenty seconds. Can't you understand how I feel that is
more intrusive than a virus can be?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"Jonathan Wolfson" <jon3825@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119706778.136184.247710@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> OK, I'll install a freeware AV that was recommended in the thread, if
> it is true that my attitude affects other people. I certainly do not
> want to harm others. My point was that I have never had a virus even
> though I never had AV software. I download lots of things from the
> internet and from LimeWire, and I simply do not open suspicious
> software or Spam. How else can I possibly get a virus? Whatever, if it
> makes you all feel happier and more secure, I will install AV software-
> I don't want people angry at me. When I was making a memorial
> presentation for a friend who passed away, it was a solemn time, and
> Norton AV update reminder kept making loud nolises and interrupting my
> effort, every twenty seconds. Can't you understand how I feel that is
> more intrusive than a virus can be?
>

Yes we understand that was a problem. It is not normal for NAV to do this.
Something was setup wrong. If you don't test for the presence of something
how do you know it doesn't exist? Downloading from limewire is a sure way to
get a virus. Many criminals setup servers for p2p with the explicit purpose
of taking over computers for criminal activity. I see at least two or three
computers a month with malware contracted from p2p sharing. Most of them
with a root kit installed.

I still think is a troll trying to extend the thread but just in case I've
answered.

Kerry

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

I guess because I am an educated user, I need no AV protection. I guess
I imagine the masses to be educated users as well. It is frankly
difficult to imagine people uneducated, since proper computer usage
seems very intuitive- simply do not open things that look unfamiliar.
What else is there?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Maybe it was McAfee that had the twenty second update reminder, and my
friend and I could not figure out, in the span of an hour or so, how to
remove that message, so the only thing to do was to uninstall it.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On 25 Jun 2005 01:00:03 -0500, Lou <lour0314@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:22:49 -0400, _RR <_RR@nomail.org> wrote:
>>It may have been a sincere post, or maybe not. I've certainly heard
>>similar sentiments before. I think there is a certain amount of
>>witch-doctor in the approach of certain 'AntiSpy' software
>>manufacturers. Less so among antivirus companies, but that still
>>fuels conspiracy theories.
>>
>>The 'memory snore' is indeed a catchy subject line. Perhaps "Norton's
>>Nodoz" would work.
>>
>>What is mpsv? I've recently found this group via google hits on some
>>problems I was trying to resolve (great group here!). Are there other
>>similar newsgroups?

>MPSV is Microsoft public security virus - it's available on most news servers.

Thanks, I'll look.

>It may be a sincere post, but I doubt it. I sincerely hope nobody is as stupid
>as the OP sounds. You absolutely should NOT connect to the internet without a
>good layered security, including antivirus.
>
>If he's serious, he's the best case in favour of licensing internet usage, that
>I have seen this year. His ISP should be contacted, and he should be
>quarantined. He's a bot member in the making, and to not object to his assinine
>attitude is irresponsible. If he's simply trolling, and some clueless and naive
>person should take him seriously, that would be equally as unacceptable.

So he's playing the part of John Hurt in the Alien. Hurt won't be
poking at any more alien pods.

Seriously, I wish the legal system would aggressively change the
current situation. Until there are significant penalties, viruses
will proliferate and there's no practical way to guard against every
single one.

AntiVirus has become an industry unto itself, like > 640K managers
were 10 years ago. At this point, I don't see antivirus software
alone overcoming it. It's playing constant defense.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"_RR" <_RR@nomail.org> wrote in message
news:7pgqb1psdoko1kcgk0hh99nbumin5gcflr@4ax.com...
> On 25 Jun 2005 01:00:03 -0500, Lou <lour0314@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:22:49 -0400, _RR <_RR@nomail.org> wrote:
>>>It may have been a sincere post, or maybe not. I've certainly heard
>>>similar sentiments before. I think there is a certain amount of
>>>witch-doctor in the approach of certain 'AntiSpy' software
>>>manufacturers. Less so among antivirus companies, but that still
>>>fuels conspiracy theories.
>>>
>>>The 'memory snore' is indeed a catchy subject line. Perhaps "Norton's
>>>Nodoz" would work.
>>>
>>>What is mpsv? I've recently found this group via google hits on some
>>>problems I was trying to resolve (great group here!). Are there other
>>>similar newsgroups?
>
>>MPSV is Microsoft public security virus - it's available on most news
>>servers.
>
> Thanks, I'll look.
>
>>It may be a sincere post, but I doubt it. I sincerely hope nobody is as
>>stupid
>>as the OP sounds. You absolutely should NOT connect to the internet
>>without a
>>good layered security, including antivirus.
>>
>>If he's serious, he's the best case in favour of licensing internet usage,
>>that
>>I have seen this year. His ISP should be contacted, and he should be
>>quarantined. He's a bot member in the making, and to not object to his
>>assinine
>>attitude is irresponsible. If he's simply trolling, and some clueless and
>>naive
>>person should take him seriously, that would be equally as unacceptable.
>
> So he's playing the part of John Hurt in the Alien. Hurt won't be
> poking at any more alien pods.
>
> Seriously, I wish the legal system would aggressively change the
> current situation. Until there are significant penalties, viruses
> will proliferate and there's no practical way to guard against every
> single one.
>
> AntiVirus has become an industry unto itself, like > 640K managers
> were 10 years ago. At this point, I don't see antivirus software
> alone overcoming it. It's playing constant defense.
>

In one sense the OP is right. The antivirus companies can't react until they
see a new virus. How fast they react and how the update gets to the end user
is the key at this point. An antivirus app is one part of the defense. End
user education is the first line.

Kerry

 

[Lou]

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 07:42:40 -0400, _RR <_RR@nomail.org> wrote:

>On 25 Jun 2005 01:00:03 -0500, Lou <lour0314@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:22:49 -0400, _RR <_RR@nomail.org> wrote:
>>>It may have been a sincere post, or maybe not. I've certainly heard
>>>similar sentiments before. I think there is a certain amount of
>>>witch-doctor in the approach of certain 'AntiSpy' software
>>>manufacturers. Less so among antivirus companies, but that still
>>>fuels conspiracy theories.
>>>
>>>The 'memory snore' is indeed a catchy subject line. Perhaps "Norton's
>>>Nodoz" would work.
>>>
>>>What is mpsv? I've recently found this group via google hits on some
>>>problems I was trying to resolve (great group here!). Are there other
>>>similar newsgroups?
>
>>MPSV is Microsoft public security virus - it's available on most news servers.
>
>Thanks, I'll look.
>
>>It may be a sincere post, but I doubt it. I sincerely hope nobody is as stupid
>>as the OP sounds. You absolutely should NOT connect to the internet without a
>>good layered security, including antivirus.
>>
>>If he's serious, he's the best case in favour of licensing internet usage, that
>>I have seen this year. His ISP should be contacted, and he should be
>>quarantined. He's a bot member in the making, and to not object to his assinine
>>attitude is irresponsible. If he's simply trolling, and some clueless and naive
>>person should take him seriously, that would be equally as unacceptable.
>
>So he's playing the part of John Hurt in the Alien. Hurt won't be
>poking at any more alien pods.
>
>Seriously, I wish the legal system would aggressively change the
>current situation. Until there are significant penalties, viruses
>will proliferate and there's no practical way to guard against every
>single one.
>
>AntiVirus has become an industry unto itself, like > 640K managers
>were 10 years ago. At this point, I don't see antivirus software
>alone overcoming it. It's playing constant defense.

Antivirus is an industry because thuggery on the Internet is big business.
There's money there - and the bad guys are all over it.

The bad guys have the advantage - plenty of clueless advertising firms are
willing to pay them to provide an advertising advantage for their products.
<http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=528&e=3&u=/ap/20050624/ap_on_hi_te/spyware_s_advertisers>

And the bad guys own lawyers - lots of them.
<http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,13144805>
<http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,12962998>

But you're right - antivirus software won't stop the problem. Neither will
having an airbag in your car prevent you from having an accident. But an airbag
may save your life - and antivirus software, along with other components in a
layered defense, may keep your computer from providing yet another bot to the
botnets of the world.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

"BBUNNY" <bbunny@bqik.net> wrote in message
news:uftv0LReFHA.3040@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>
> "kurttrail" <dontemailme@anywhereintheknowuniverse.org> wrote in message
> news:Os6rv7NeFHA.3012@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> | Jonathan Wolfson wrote:
> | > Again, what about pc's that only one person uses? Intrusive AV
> | > software should be installed only on PC's that are going to be
> | > shared. Companies should sell personal PC's as well as public-used
> | > PC's as a distinct category, and only the latter should be equipped
> | > to a massive extent with AV software.
> | >
> |
> | LOL! Any PC that is on the net without AV is a likely shared
> computer,
> | it is just the owner is unaware that it is being shared.
>
> I have a tendency towards a proper education on the use of a computer
> than AV software. I do use an online scan every once in a while. I
> have
> never had a virus or spyware. _EDUCATION_ The OP did state that
> the AV was calling home, many of them do.
>

The description given, "every 20 seconds", is what the MS Security Center
may ask if it has doubts of the AVs virus definitions. NAV update itself
defaults to 4 hours generally speaking.

I read all the replies down to yours so far. No one seems to be aware of
that. Or, wants to fess up as its an MS Security Center prompt, not NAV
update prompting every 20 seconds or so.

Lots of NAV haters and MS lovers here.

> | If you want a computer built to your specs, then deal with small local
> | OEMs, not multinational corporations, or build it yourself.
>
> The above is a very astute statement. Spend a few more bucks and save
> tons of grief.
>
>

 

[Lou]

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On 25 Jun 2005 06:39:38 -0700, "Jonathan Wolfson" <jon3825@gmail.com> wrote:

>OK, I'll install a freeware AV that was recommended in the thread, if
>it is true that my attitude affects other people. I certainly do not
>want to harm others. My point was that I have never had a virus even
>though I never had AV software. I download lots of things from the
>internet and from LimeWire, and I simply do not open suspicious
>software or Spam. How else can I possibly get a virus? Whatever, if it
>makes you all feel happier and more secure, I will install AV software-
>I don't want people angry at me. When I was making a memorial
>presentation for a friend who passed away, it was a solemn time, and
>Norton AV update reminder kept making loud nolises and interrupting my
>effort, every twenty seconds. Can't you understand how I feel that is
>more intrusive than a virus can be?

Yes, we do understand how annoying obtrusive software reminders can be. I doubt
anybody here hasn't experienced something that frustrated us beyond belief, and
temporarily un installing software is a frequent diagnostic step.

Just don't confuse temporary diagnostic procedures with permanent solutions.

And for the record, I hate the whiny tricks that McAfee and Norton use. But you
need to fix the problem, not just eliminate the symptoms.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

Jonathan Wolfson wrote:
>
> How come that has never happened to me? I do not run AV software. Also,

If you never run antivirus software than you have NO idea if you are
infected or not.

> I am not a corporation. So why do AV programs get pre-installed on user
> systems? And can't computer makes make them a lot less intrusive and

Because they want their customers to at least use the systems for a
month or so before they call tech support.

> much more in the background? By default they should be way in the
> background, not in the forefront. Another thing is the loud noises the
> software makes when demanding an update. To fix this problem for my
> aunt who was complaining, I simply uninstalled her two antivirus
> programs on her new PC. She will not be infected, I bet.

--
http://www.bootdisk.com/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general (More info?)

On 25 Jun 2005 07:21:45 -0700, "Jonathan Wolfson" <jon3825@gmail.com>
wrote:

>I guess because I am an educated user, I need no AV protection. I guess
>I imagine the masses to be educated users as well. It is frankly
>difficult to imagine people uneducated, since proper computer usage
>seems very intuitive- simply do not open things that look unfamiliar.
>What else is there?

There was apparently a hole in IE that allowed spyware to load when
the user simply *passed their cursor over* an area on the screen. No
clicks required. This has been fixed long ago, but that's the type of
thing that no one can be expected to know about or guard against.

There will always be holes in any operating system (I don't go for
hype about Macs or Linux...if there was money in it, their security
holes would be well exploited).

The fact that there are lawyers working in defense of slimeware says
it all; there are legal loopholes that give them leverage. They
should be closed and violators should be actively pursued. That would
not prevent all trojan/spyware development, but it should at least
take it to the point where it's not as leucrative.

I saw an announcement from download.com that they will no longer post
programs that incorporate spyware. The surprise is that this implies
that they knowingly did this in the past. Makes you wonder...