Any one here like win8 besides me?

[qwertyu8]

it feels like all i read about is how it sucks. but i actually enjoy the new UI. its faster to get around then 7 and one you get use to it and set it up to the way you like it its amazing. then again i honestly think its just win 7 but a little faster and a diffident approach. also i love win7 too. anyone else feel the way i do? i cant be the only one can i?

 

[qwertyu8]

well the new ui may be awful to you but it isnt awfull for a lot of people apparently. i expected making this forum for everyone to hate on me ( like people always do when i post something) but i actually got very positive feedback from a lot of people. so just keep that in mind. there are and will be a lot of people that actually enjoy it. FYI: i use a desktop. not that anyone cares to know. im just saying that even desktop users can like it even if it may be few. Also its good that your not pushing for win7 onto customers. just let the user chose what they want not what you think they need.

 

[MidnightDistort]

1) Your blaming Microsoft for your printer manufacturers lack of driver support
2) Consumer grade printers are cheap

Bin your prehistoric OS its long dead, dont blame something thats not at fault.

Every day of the week i push my customers off XP and onto 7, i dont allow XP its my rule.

Prehistoric is windows 3.1.

Why buy a new printer when XP works fine. I"m not blaming MS for lack of printer support.

I find nothing wrong with Windows 7, but when i want to print something i just use XP. Some people have to upgrade/get a new system. Maybe they don't want to spend the money in getting a new OS and a new PC. I even find buying a retail PC a waste of money when i could build my own system. Windows XP is perfectly usable and other then it not looking as pretty as Windows 7. In fact i do recommend that people get Win 7 but if they need XP for drivers or compatibility they may as well stick with what works. I have 4 systems, 1 laptop and 3 desktops. The desktop and 2 of the systems has Win 7 and 2 of the systems have XP (one of them is a dual boot).

I don't even need to be connected to the internet to use my printer, worst case scenario i just use a flashdrive to copy what i want to print on one of my XP systems and print. I have no need or desire to get a new printer at the moment. Otherwise it's just wasted technology.

 

[MidnightDistort]

Hi

Sorry but the last couple of answers about XP are rubbish...

There is NOTHING wrong with XP as an operating system...with SP3 its as reliable as they come....

Customers come into my shops all the time with XP.... they DO NOT want to learn another operating system, especially when there is nothing wrong with theirs....

I dont push them onto 7 or any other OS....most of them are pensioners (over 65) and I would be ashamed if anyone in my shops pushed them onto 7 purely for profit...

As far as 8 is concerned, we wont be pushing that either, nor will any of my shops be using it, even though as an MS Partner we get free copies...once its stabilised and that awful Metro UI has either vanished or can be altered ...maybe...but not for a long while yet....

All the best Brett

Agreed XP is still good for about another couple years. If i just had one system compatible with only XP i'd take that over having to buy a new system right away. And just because something is old doesn't mean it's useless. Next thing i'll hear is Win 7 is old, upgrade to Win 8. People on a tight budget won't be upgrading much and they have to think about whats best for them with how much they can afford. If Win 95 or Win 98 was as good as XP is those OS's may have lasted longer then they did. XP is reliable and stable, why upgrade if it still performs well. I have a system that had Win 98 on it and even after support was dropped from that OS i still continued to use it.

 

[apache_lives]

"Every day of the week i push my customers off XP and onto 7, i dont allow XP its my rule."

Haha .. that is true. I have been doing that as well. I have to remind people that XP is 11 years old. In the computer world that is quite amazing.

I find it amazing how people went from XP to Vista/Win7 and hated it. Then after a few weeks of using it they say how badly XP sucked.

As far as Vista sucking.. I had no issues. The issues were that manufacturers were sticking the "Made for Vista" logo on their XP machines which only had 512MB ram, a slow single core CPU and integrated graphics. The other thing that hurt Vista was the drivers. Microsoft had released preview and development versions of "Longhorn (Vista)" for how many years?? When it finally was released, HP and other companies didn't have drivers for anything. Not Microsoft's fault. These companies knew what was coming and had more than adequate time to get things right.

As for Win8. The start-up and shutdown times are incredible with a mechanical HD. At my shop I built two identical systems. One with Win7 and an SSD and the other with Win8 on an SSD and a mechanical HD (to show the difference between SSD/HDD). The start-up times between the Win7/SSD machine are about equal to the Win8/HDD in boot times. Win8/SSD boots within a few seconds of hitting the power button. About twice as fast as the Win7/SSD machine. It's really incredible how much quicker it is knowing that it's built on the same platform as Vista. For the normal user, Win8 is awesome. All your programs are their on your desktop. Click the icon and go. Can't find what your looking for, start typing the name of it and it will be one of the first things that shows up. It's pretty slick no doubt.

I have already had a few people come in and test out the Win8 machine and immediately fell in love with it. Just last week I had an older gentleman come into the store. He is 93 and served in WWII. He has never owned a computer in his life. He came in and wanted to look at a few systems because he was going to give one to his wife for their anniversary. He sat down at the Win7 machine and hated it. So I showed him the Win8 machine. He immediately figured it out and was on his way within just a few minutes. It was perfect for him. Unfortunately I couldn't sell him the Win8 machine and told him this. He has already paid for his system and is waiting for Win8 to hit retail so we can install it and get it setup at his house. So apparently Win8 is pretty easy to use if you have never used a computer before.

Amen brother

 

[apache_lives]

Prehistoric is windows 3.1.

Why buy a new printer when XP works fine. I"m not blaming MS for lack of printer support.

I find nothing wrong with Windows 7, but when i want to print something i just use XP. Some people have to upgrade/get a new system. Maybe they don't want to spend the money in getting a new OS and a new PC. I even find buying a retail PC a waste of money when i could build my own system. Windows XP is perfectly usable and other then it not looking as pretty as Windows 7. In fact i do recommend that people get Win 7 but if they need XP for drivers or compatibility they may as well stick with what works. I have 4 systems, 1 laptop and 3 desktops. The desktop and 2 of the systems has Win 7 and 2 of the systems have XP (one of them is a dual boot).

I don't even need to be connected to the internet to use my printer, worst case scenario i just use a flashdrive to copy what i want to print on one of my XP systems and print. I have no need or desire to get a new printer at the moment. Otherwise it's just wasted technology.

Its absolutly stupid to buy half a new system and use old rubbish with it, just like using an i7 and and SSD with XP thats just idiotic.

I can think of 1000 reasons to NOT use XP, heres some valid reasons for me why i cant use XP daily:

2tb (partition) limit
3gb limit is insufficient for anything i run (Photoshop etc)
Cant play Battlefield 3
Cant run my Vmware machines with a rubbish 3gb/32-bit limit
No DirectX 11 support
Its slow and boring
It will not allow roll out/automation with drivers (dpinst issues, no pnputil)
No trim support for my SSD
My customers will look at me funny because its so old
Touchscreens suck with XP, next to hopeless

need i add more?

I would be so happy if Microsoft would kill the XP activation servers - so i wouldn't have to deal with XP legacy rubbish.

 

[apache_lives]

Agreed XP is still good for about another couple years. If i just had one system compatible with only XP i'd take that over having to buy a new system right away. And just because something is old doesn't mean it's useless. Next thing i'll hear is Win 7 is old, upgrade to Win 8. People on a tight budget won't be upgrading much and they have to think about whats best for them with how much they can afford. If Win 95 or Win 98 was as good as XP is those OS's may have lasted longer then they did. XP is reliable and stable, why upgrade if it still performs well. I have a system that had Win 98 on it and even after support was dropped from that OS i still continued to use it.

Nope it works the other way around, in the early days of XP it was all "XP is too heavy" "i prefer 98/95" "my games dont work with XP" "my hardware doesn't work with XP" - sound familiar? or are you too young and never went through/experienced that?

Its the same for every major release, vista/7/8 are different - there all NT6 core based aka if you bash vista your bashing 7/8.

Why don't you all use Windows 2000 over XP? Its NT5 like XP, same driver support but 1/2 the bloat of the XP color crap shell? Why don't you use it instead? By your logic that's what you should be using? Or does it feel to "old" and "prehistoric" for you? That's the same when i look at XP for me - its a dead OS like 2k.

My old customers come in with old dead XP computers i offer them a new system package, they take it - Theres zero choice to stick with XP your a poor technician to offer such rubbish to a customer who knows very little, people who use 7 love it as they will 8, most customers dont even ask about what OS and never complain, there happy everything works and is smooth and fast.

 

[Guest]

Hi

There is NOTHING wrong with XP as an operating system...with SP3 its as reliable as they come....

All the best Brett

Compared against non MS OS's .....nah. As an MS OS ..agreed.

 

[mayankleoboy1]

even with the classic shell installed on Win8 RP , i really hate the popups that come from the "hot corners" and the "charms bar" .
I hate when something slides in my view.

 

[pjmelect]

Windows 8 is tolerable with classic shell installed, but Metro is a complete waste of space, not one of the supplied apps does anything that I couldn't do better in a browser.

 

[Guest]

You don't need to use *Metro* when you use Windows 8. If you don't like that UI, then you don't use it even if you upgrade to Windows 8. I simply used Classic Shell to get a start menu and not need to click on the desktop view when I log in once I got a little sick of not having those two options.'

So in order to regain the functionality of previous operating systems I have to install a third party application that could present unknown issues into a production environment of over 500 users spread over 20 sites, or face the wrath of unhappy users who now have to use over twice the amount of screen-estate to launch applications. As a home user desktop I'm sure it will be loved and loathed.

Under the monstrosity that is *metro* or whatever they want to call it, I am sure it is a faster more secure OS than its predecessors, but I just can't see the uptake of it in corporate environments, with Windows 7 supported till 2020 and 8 not really bringing anything new apart from the UI I certainly won't be recommending it.

 

[sscultima]

So in order to regain the functionality of previous operating systems I have to install a third party application that could present unknown issues into a production environment of over 500 users spread over 20 sites, or face the wrath of unhappy users who now have to use over twice the amount of screen-estate to launch applications. As a home user desktop I'm sure it will be loved and loathed.

Under the monstrosity that is *metro* or whatever they want to call it, I am sure it is a faster more secure OS than its predecessors, but I just can't see the uptake of it in corporate environments, with Windows 7 supported till 2020 and 8 not really bringing anything new apart from the UI I certainly won't be recommending it.

i do agree with not having win8 in a production environment for hundreds of employees that require nothing more than the bare essentials of programs. it would be pointless, especially when an OS still has support. with my current employer it would be stupid to upgrade the OS and waste thousands of dollars on all that just to use the same programs that were specifically programmed on NT5 and i bet would not even work on NT6.

It wouldnt hurt them to at least upgrade their servers some more (hardware end). the amount of system issues we have im amazed they have not hired a new IT team.

But back to win8, I like it, works for me, i know some others prefer older OS' i dont blame them, its what they are used to and it works for them. as for third party add-ons to make the OS look older, thats preference. i prefer whatever works, and win8 works for me, have had no issues with yet, same with 7 never had issues, i just like to be up with the times, if win8 didnt work as good as 7 i would stick with 7.

 

[MidnightDistort]

Its absolutly stupid to buy half a new system and use old rubbish with it, just like using an i7 and and SSD with XP thats just idiotic.

I can think of 1000 reasons to NOT use XP, heres some valid reasons for me why i cant use XP daily:

2tb (partition) limit
3gb limit is insufficient for anything i run (Photoshop etc)
Cant play Battlefield 3
Cant run my Vmware machines with a rubbish 3gb/32-bit limit
No DirectX 11 support
Its slow and boring
It will not allow roll out/automation with drivers (dpinst issues, no pnputil)
No trim support for my SSD
My customers will look at me funny because its so old
Touchscreens suck with XP, next to hopeless

need i add more?

I would be so happy if Microsoft would kill the XP activation servers - so i wouldn't have to deal with XP legacy rubbish.

A bunch of lulz here. Yes XP does not support new hardware, software and basically Win 7 is current while XP is outdated, blah blah blah but it doesn't mean XP is useless. If your running on older hardware that XP supports, im not going to tell people well you should upgrade to Win 7 unless everything that they use is supported by Win 7 or they want a new machine. I know someone who still uses Win 95, they don't need to connect to the internet with it and they're quite happy with the way it works. Not able to watch HD movies with that but then again if they wanted to do that then they would get a system that would support HD.

I don't care if Win 8 runs the latest and greatest compared to Win 7, it's not worth the upgrade. It's the same for some people with Win XP not wanting to upgrade to 7 for whatever reason. I told my dad that XP is going to lose it's support within a couple years but i'm not going to tell him that well you should upgrade to Win 7, when the time comes he'll have a choice between getting whatever OS he wants to and i wouldn't even bother to recommend Win 8 to him because he would be totally lost and would not want to relearn how to use an OS.

I would only recommend he upgrades his OS if his PC is un-repairable like the motherboard dies or a component that isn't cost effective to replace. The whole point is if it's not broken, don't fix it. Not let's recommend upgrading everything when something does not work with new technology if they are not even going to use that functionality. It's like buying an i7 CPU system with a 4TB hard drive and 32GB of Ram and all you use it for is ancient DOS programs. Maybe not to that extent anyway but if a system works fine for someone i'm not going to tell them to upgrade if they're not going to need it.

 

[djscribbles]

So, personally, I liked it well enough at first but I've noticed a number of things that have irked me enough that I doubt I'll be buying the release before SP1.

First: The hot corners/edges. I've found when I play games in a borderless window (a nice way to play with dual monitors) I hit the hot-corners/edges and bring up menus or switch into the start menu. Not something that's unfixable but it's annoying as hell, and I encounter it enough that I am going to put 7 back on my PC for this reason alone.

Getting stuck in metro. On my dual monitor setup, it's fairly easy to shift back to desktop by clicking the other monitor, however I've found that if I open a metro app then metro will stay open when I click off screen, even if I go back to the main menu. It's annoying (especially when combined with the above issue with hot corners).

I really can't say I've used the metro UI much, but I don't find it useful, and it limits multitasking capability of the computer to use the metro apps. For me, it's just an extra click between me and using the computer. I find when I open a file that pops up in a metro app (such as an image) I would rather just close it and open it in something else, and closing the metro app is a multistep process that isn't really natural to me (especially after the context shift from desktop land).

It crashes alot more in games, which is almost certainly due to drivers, however it's pushing me back to windows 7 now, rather than keeping me on windows 8.

I do really like the boot time. It boots faster from a 7200RPM hdd than Windows7 from my SSD, (though apps aren't ready right away).

Overall, the OS is quite snappy and all that; I just find it to be a pain to use, despite trying my best to like it. Sure, i could probably work around some of my issues, but there isn't much of a payoff in the end so why bother.

 

[sumesh]

The sole purpose of new windows 8 seems like to outgrade all the old hardwares systems and get control of hardware market too... but it definitly seems like start of a new ERA... and we all have to accept it... My last point is that all gona be under the grid of MS.. Matter of privacy!

 

[sscultima]

could you imagine, if this touch era takes off and lasts for years, and companies have to start implementing this. I work in a call center currently, so for me to imagine everyone using a touch display would be a strange sight indeed, in my line of work to type fast is a must. on the other hand, this would make a huge upgrade for our systems (which we need so bad) doesnt matter what day, slow day, busy day, our systems get so slow its crazy, crashes left right and center.

and when you think of it, with every update to windows OS some stuff gets left behind, or new hardware required to use the new OS to its potential, but is that not the way everything seems to go with PC's? so no matter how much people hate to use win8 now, or any future OS, eventually they will have to migrate unless they wish to be left behind with no support.

 

[apache_lives]

A bunch of lulz here. Yes XP does not support new hardware, software and basically Win 7 is current while XP is outdated, blah blah blah but it doesn't mean XP is useless. If your running on older hardware that XP supports, im not going to tell people well you should upgrade to Win 7 unless everything that they use is supported by Win 7 or they want a new machine. I know someone who still uses Win 95, they don't need to connect to the internet with it and they're quite happy with the way it works. Not able to watch HD movies with that but then again if they wanted to do that then they would get a system that would support HD.

I don't care if Win 8 runs the latest and greatest compared to Win 7, it's not worth the upgrade. It's the same for some people with Win XP not wanting to upgrade to 7 for whatever reason. I told my dad that XP is going to lose it's support within a couple years but i'm not going to tell him that well you should upgrade to Win 7, when the time comes he'll have a choice between getting whatever OS he wants to and i wouldn't even bother to recommend Win 8 to him because he would be totally lost and would not want to relearn how to use an OS.

I would only recommend he upgrades his OS if his PC is un-repairable like the motherboard dies or a component that isn't cost effective to replace. The whole point is if it's not broken, don't fix it. Not let's recommend upgrading everything when something does not work with new technology if they are not even going to use that functionality. It's like buying an i7 CPU system with a 4TB hard drive and 32GB of Ram and all you use it for is ancient DOS programs. Maybe not to that extent anyway but if a system works fine for someone i'm not going to tell them to upgrade if they're not going to need it.

Poor sales and marketing skills? All i see here is all excuses zero facts.

 

[Brett928S2]

Poor sales and marketing skills? All i see here is all excuses zero facts.

Hi

From your attitude . I suspect your "marketing skills" equates to ripping off old people who know nothing about computers...

In my shops, we are HONEST with customers (old fashioned maybe , but I am ancient..)
if a customer has a pefectly good XP machine that maybe needs a gb of ram to add to the 256 it already has, then thats what we sell them... IF they want it after we have explained and demonstrated why it will be faster etc...

We do NOT sell them a Windows 7 machine, which they will NOT understand how to use, and usually of no benefit to them for the odd email to their grandkids or maybe a webcam call...

I have been in business a LONG LONG time and I will predict something here....your business will not last and eventually Karma will catch you up....

I can sleep soundly at night, and have a drawer full of letters from customers thanking us for our honesty and helpfulness.... (and yes I did say letters, not emails)

All the best Brett

 

[MidnightDistort]

Poor sales and marketing skills? All i see here is all excuses zero facts.

It sounds like every time a customer comes in with a problem with their PC you wanna sell someone a new system. If i came to your shop explaining that my IDE hard drive got corrupted & didn't know the problem your response most likely would be, upgrade to SATA when all you had to do is replace a faulty cable ribbon and the hard drive works fine again. Charge them $40 for the repair and you just saved your customer from having to buy a new hard drive. Unless you get all your parts for dirt cheap your more then likely not going to get much more out of selling someone a new hard drive.

Computers in general are not dirt cheap and rather then asking someone to get a whole new system just to upgrade the OS when it doesn't warrant it just costs more for the customer in the long run. Most of the time people will come to me instead of going to a shop because they know i'm not going to rip them off or tell them they need a new machine because the PSU or graphics card failed or they can't use Win 7 due to insufficient hardware capabilities.

Even if i did have my own computer business i wouldn't be ripping people off and it's up to the customer on what they want, not what the market wants or has. It'll be enough to pay the bills, having a mansion and 10 luxury cars isn't required in life and neither is having excess amount of profit where you wouldn't know what to spend your money on. You can only make so much profit because you'll end up taking every last scrap of money from everyone in the end.

 

[MidnightDistort]

We do NOT sell them a Windows 7 machine, which they will NOT understand how to use, and usually of no benefit to them for the odd email to their grandkids or maybe a webcam call...

Actually Win XP and 7 isn't all that different. At least during my experience, a few things changed some things tweaked but the basic is still there. Hardly took me any time to learn it. But i can understand some people who are computer illiterate (or just don't have enough energy to learn anything more) that might not know the changes are really minor, or they see a few things out of place and they automatically become less interested in giving it a chance. Overall though most people i know that liked XP liked Win 7 even better.

A jump from Win 7 to 8 is very different and for someone who is used to the Windows interface may not like the changes. I for one don't like it and MS may have to try something else out. Giving what the consumer wants will keep them coming back again. Giving them something that is forced upon, eventually they will start to turn elsewhere.

And even if someone needed my help with their 1960 typewriter, im not going to tell them, you should upgrade that to a computer bro, no i'd try to fix it first if it's not fixable i'd look for something cheap for them to use.

 

[apache_lives]

Pffftt is what it is, all XP machines are slow buckets, customers want nice fast machines i give them what they want its not a rip off when they get a decent machine rather then some half ass sloppy old bucket.

Most people are moving to laptops anyhow - they ALL come pre-loaded with Windows 7 are they all a rip off too?

You all talk as if Windows 7 is worth $1000 its not its $100 or less - cheap.

I give my customers options to repair old buckets and a price for a new system - i don't hold a gun to there head they pick the better option, i provide it.

I work in the biggest computer shop in the area there's a reason were the biggest - were the best, no backyarder rubbish half assed anything, i wont allow it. We look after our customers, they look after us.

 

[MajinCry]

Pffftt is what it is, all XP machines are slow buckets, customers want nice fast machines i give them what they want its not a rip off when they get a decent machine rather then some half ass sloppy old bucket.

Most people are moving to laptops anyhow - they ALL come pre-loaded with Windows 7 are they all a rip off too?

You all talk as if Windows 7 is worth $1000 its not its $100 or less - cheap.

I give my customers options to repair old buckets and a price for a new system - i don't hold a gun to there head they pick the better option, i provide it.

I work in the biggest computer shop in the area there's a reason were the biggest - were the best, no backyarder rubbish half assed anything, i wont allow it. We look after our customers, they look after us.

You work in a computer shop? Huh. That surprised me.

Well, I found that my Pentium D with an 8600GT on XP worked just fine. No hang ups or anything on XP. Smooth as butter.
Same for Windows 7 on that machine.

Then my core 2 duo e6700 with an HD 6670 worked just as smooth with XP as the previous system. Same for Windows 7.

Now, my 965 with my 6670 is still as smooth as my Pentium D on Windows XP and on Windows 7. Not that that's a bad thing; everything is silky smooth.


You really, REALLY don't know a thing.
If all someone wants to do is send the odd email or watch a Youtube video (which an old Pentium III would do fine with.), why would you sell them a computer that is many times more expensive, which will do OTHER things better, but won't see an improvement in what they want to do?
That is just typical marketing BS.

Your customers may look after you, but you just swindle them.

 

[apache_lives]

You work in a computer shop? Huh. That surprised me.

Well, I found that my Pentium D with an 8600GT on XP worked just fine. No hang ups or anything on XP. Smooth as butter.
Same for Windows 7 on that machine.

Then my core 2 duo e6700 with an HD 6670 worked just as smooth with XP as the previous system. Same for Windows 7.

Now, my 965 with my 6670 is still as smooth as my Pentium D on Windows XP and on Windows 7. Not that that's a bad thing; everything is silky smooth.


You really, REALLY don't know a thing.
If all someone wants to do is send the odd email or watch a Youtube video (which an old Pentium III would do fine with.), why would you sell them a computer that is many times more expensive, which will do OTHER things better, but won't see an improvement in what they want to do?
That is just typical marketing BS.

Your customers may look after you, but you just swindle them.

Why don't you use Windows 3.1? would run much smoother and take a lot less ram? Why not just dump your system and go back to an abacus?

I'm sorry but its you who doesn't know much about anything, you seem to forget 99% of computers out there come pre-installed/bundled with Windows 7 and soon Windows 8, only a small fraction of systems are custom built which means theres is no option to skimp on a few $$$ and stick with XP, on top of that 99% of Windows licences are OEM which means once that system dies you should not be transferring it to a new rig unless your a shonky backyarder who does, or your using an illegal pirated copy, and i doubt more then a few of your customers actually own any retail copys of the OS.

I know your kind.

 

[MajinCry]

Not really. I never mentioned once that I own a computer repair/service/retail shop. Not like I do, anyway.

Why not use windows 3.1? Only 256 colours (iirc), won't make full use of my 8GB RAM, doesn't support multi-core processors, none of my programs work on it, I lack a floppy drive, nobody sells copies of it anymore, none of the games I play work on it...You know, the usual.

I do wonder where you get your statistics from. You really like the number 99.

Last I knew, you didn't need a pirated version of Windows to re-install windows. I have plenty of OEM XP install discs kicking about, got two Windows 7 OEM discs in a drawer somewhere.


You know my kind? Eh. Burden of proof. Show me some.

 

[nbelote]

Windows 8, like Windows 95 before it, will be met with A LOT of skepticism. I know half of you here were in diapers during the transition from Windows 3.1 to Windows 95 so you probably don't remember the amount of crap the Win95 UI met. MUCH more than Windows 8 is meeting now. Back then, Microsoft took a risk and it paid off. Something tells me that, since they've been here before, they know what they're doing. This small amount of resistance is hardly enough to throw them off.

Good luck to you, as a user supporting the old interface. Your Windows 7 is the new Windows 3.1. Don't give it up, it's all you'll ever need. Ease of access and speed aren't key in the computing world. Adaptability doesn't matter. You'll be fine with your Windows 7 and your soon-to-be aging WDDM 1.1 driver platform. All those new features that hit Windows 8 will be something you can live without. It's okay.

 

[sscultima]

im just following this thread now to watch these guys go back and forth, amusing read while at work.

this should be left at personal oppinion and no point in bickering back and forth. some people have different views at what people need, especially in different areas across the contry. i know that living in my city, its back and forth with was people wants, either very cheap or very expensive, move down to my home town and everyone wants very basic, XP works fine for them they dont use PC's all that much everyone is outside, lol. then move more in to other towns more north of where i am now, they all what newest and best, so its all very different where you come from and what people really need as well.