Apple Admits to Using Factories That Employ Kids

[zelannii]

[citation][nom]steddy[/nom]Isn't the title of the article a bit harsh? It was the suppliers that were hiring underage workers, not Apple itself. Also, congrats to Apple for cracking down on this sort of thing.[/citation]

Especially congrats since Apple is virtually the only manufacturer that even does these audits. All the other companies use a "don't ask, don't tell" policy when it is in regards to illegal hiring and worker safety. We all know what these companies do when not being watched. Apple bothers to check in, holds companies accountable, and in many cases holds back payments, demands refunds, and several times has dumped suppliers (including leaving them holding lots of un-paid for inventory, over employment violations. They also voluntarily report their findings to the public.

 

[JackNSally]

[citation][nom]chomlee[/nom]but there are some countries that already have a decent education system and they are still borderline 3rd world countries because of the corruption/poverty levels.[/citation]

Like Egypt?

 

[ubercake]

Does anyone really care about the workers? We rely on state owned Chinese employees to produce most of everything we use daily.

I thought it was fashionable to not care about workers anymore if it benefits the corporations' bottom lines?

 

[victomofreality]

[citation][nom]Kelavarus[/nom]I pretty much laugh at anyone complaining about child labor after having traveled the world for 5 years. 90% of the time, they NEED those jobs. They're not (technically) being forced into it, they don't have a choice because they need the money for their family. Then the Western world gets involved and takes their job away from them and only puts them into more poverty while saying "Hey, look, now we've saved you!"[/citation]

+1million!

I get so sick and tired of listening to people sitting cozy in first world nations saying child labor is wrong. Child labor is infinitely better then child prostitution, criminal activities or starvation! So every time you boycott a company for child labor you are taking food from a child's mouth.

 

[zelannii]

[citation][nom]snurp85[/nom]slymaelstrom - 60 hours a week is alot. 10 hour days 6 days a week for less than minimum wage and no overtime. Not to mention, 60 hour weeks for teenagers?!??! The fact that apple charges so much for their computers and yet their pays their employees so little is outlandish.steddy - Apple clearly is not doing anything about this problem despite knowing about it. These reports are published every year and have consistently shown the have recurring problems. It would seem that Apple is okay with workshops.[/citation]

Read the article next time, or better yet, the source material. The 60 hours is the CAP and INCLUDES overtime pay. All workers must be paid not less than the legal minimum age of the region and a premium rate is required for overtime. They also require vacation, holiday, sick leave, and other wage concessions typically unheard of in the 2nd and 3rd world. Further, they disallow wage deduction as a disciplinary measure.

Here's a nice link for you to make it even easier:
http://images.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/pdf/Supplier_Code_of_Conduct_V3_2.pdf

Apple IS doing something about it. These inspections occour REGULARYLY, there are stiff penalities for failed compliance, and Apple has canceled contracts in the past, left firms with large inventories, demanded payback to them for breach of contract and payment to employees for uncredited wages. They also report these findings to responsible local government.

Other companies (Dell, HP, Sony, Samsung, the list goes on) don;t even do this. They're policy is "we only report what we know about" where apple at least make the effort to be informed, and then voluntarily releases this information to the public annually! Doesn't do anything about it? They do MORE THAN ANY OTHER you moron!

 

[babybeluga]

[citation][nom]zelannii[/nom]Especially congrats since Apple is virtually the only manufacturer that even does these audits. All the other companies use a "don't ask, don't tell" policy when it is in regards to illegal hiring and worker safety. We all know what these companies do when not being watched. Apple bothers to check in, holds companies accountable, and in many cases holds back payments, demands refunds, and several times has dumped suppliers (including leaving them holding lots of un-paid for inventory, over employment violations. They also voluntarily report their findings to the public.[/citation]

Software development and manual labor are two completely different things...

 

[itadakimasu]

If they built their products in America, we wouldn't have this issue. I'd hate to see what the price gouging would be like though, if they weren't doing the 50 cent hour, 60 hour weeks overseas.

 

[megamanx00]

But "interrogating" possible leaks is acceptable practice.

Oh yeah, Apple cares for it's sweatsho... I mean factory workers.

 

[zak_mckraken]

The way I see it, the story probably unfolded like this :

Apple inspector:, it turns out our suppliers are violation rules.
Steve Jobs : Hmmm... it's sad because it does help us make a better profit. We're gonna look bad if this slips out to the media. I know, let's bring the news ourselves so we look like heroes trying to save third-world countries!
Apple inspector: Brilliant sir!

I always chuckle a bit when I see an Apple retail box : "Designed in California". Weird, they're not advertising the "Made in Malaysia, China, Korea, etc."

BTW, don't think I have a grudge against Apple. I know most (if not all) eletronics companies have the same practices.

 

[tommysch]

Lets them work, but I boycott apple do the effeminate nature of their products. At least the children are eating something.

 

[STravis]

[citation][nom]Dirty Durden[/nom]WTF Toyota makes their cars in America. So a Jap company can make cars in America but Ford or GM cannot make car here. Why, because Japan has the highest Corp. tax rates in the World, who is next the good ole U.S.A. We have the second highest corp tax rate in the world. Why because of the E.P.A. & the tree huggers. The EPA wants to regulate everything & if they cannot regulate them they will tax them out of the Country.[/citation]

Would you care to elaborate (you contradict your own argument in the above quote). If the EPA and the so called tree huggers are so bad for corporations in the US, why are companies like BMW, Toyota, KIA and others building plants here?

 

[STravis]

[citation][nom]slymaelstrom[/nom]Really? Perhaps we have different work experiences... In software development, I've logged 100+ hour weeks multiple times and during busy parts of the year it's not uncommon to log 70-80 hours each week. That, by the way, is not overtime for me because I'm on salary and am exempt from overtime pay. In my business, working the standard 40 hours a week probably means you aren't working enough.Like I said... it's a crazy sounding thing out here to think of teenagers working 60 hour a week... but visit half of the countries in the list at the end of this article and I'm sure you find most of the working teenagers log that much time regularly.[/citation]

I know many people in your boat. 60-70 hr weeks are not uncommon. This is usually because of piss poor planning, emergencies or management wanting to squeeze more work out of the same amount of employees (usually with veiled threats that they might have to offshore some of the development because the locals can't keep up). BTW, what quality of work is expected after a certain amount of time. 100hrs/week is roughly 14 hour days (assuming 7 days a week) and most people burn out way before they hit that mark.

As a software developer and electrical engineer I can tell you that at most I would hit 50 hour weeks and that would be infrequent. I regularly work 40-42 hour weeks and I can also tell you that if I was expected to work 1.5 - 2x that, they would be looking for a new engineer, because I can do the math. I negotiated my salary based on a 40hour week. If I double that 2 things happen: a- I work for half the amount (per hour) and b) my personal life suffers.

Neither of that is acceptable - last I checked I'm an employee of the company not a slave.

 

[Dirty Durden]

[citation][nom]victomofreality[/nom]+1million!I get so sick and tired of listening to people sitting cozy in first world nations saying child labor is wrong. Child labor is infinitely better then child prostitution, criminal activities or starvation! So every time you boycott a company for child labor you are taking food from a child's mouth.[/citation]

What I love is when say they care about the poor of the world. I do not care about the poor of the world, they need to rise up & take control of the their Government. They need to make their country more business friendly. We have people starving in America because we are not a business friendly country anymore. In the next couple years Americans we will have to make some very extreme cut backs on all those cozy sits we all have. Possibly start growing are on food. China will be the superpower & America will be China 50 years ago with a Mao so a leader (go ahead & say it cannot happen). We are giving China are future & are kids future.

 

[JohnnyLucky]

it is quite obvious from reading individual comments that a majority of those individuals do not have a clue what Apple does.

Read this:

http://images.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/pdf/Supplier_Code_of_Conduct_V3_2.pdf

 

[STravis]

[citation][nom]Dirty Durden[/nom]What I love is when say they care about the poor of the world. I do not care about the poor of the world, they need to rise up & take control of the their Government. They need to make their country more business friendly. We have people starving in America because we are not a business friendly country anymore. In the next couple years Americans we will have to make some very extreme cut backs on all those cozy sits we all have. Possibly start growing are on food. China will be the superpower & America will be China 50 years ago with a Mao so a leader (go ahead & say it cannot happen). We are giving China are future & are kids future.[/citation]

Couple of points.

[citation]They need to make their country more business friendly[/citation]
I don't think one can make a country more business friendly than providing them with slave labor. I'm not sure what the next level would be.

[citation]We have people starving in America because we are not a business friendly country anymore. [/citation]
That's a load of crap. We are the world's largest consumer of goods and as such we should have the ability to determine where our products come from. However, we as individuals, are ok with companies using slave labor in other countries as long as we can get our goods for the lowest possible price. Unfortunately that is a recipe for disaster; you can try debating tax cuts with me but you'll be wrong. Just ask the good folks at Whirlpool (1100 employees) who are seeing the plant shut down and moved to Mexico - AFTER Whirlpool got $20M from the Stimulus bill.

[citation]China will be the superpower & America [/citation]

Too late. China already owns all our IP and our manufacturing. They can at a moment's notice bootleg anything and everything we make. Our corporations are focused on the short term and haven't noticed that they have forfeited all their designs to the Chinese.

It's easy enough to crush that type of operation (offshoring all our plants and engineering) but none of our politicians have the balls to pull the trigger do it.

 

[Dirty Durden]

[citation][nom]stravis[/nom]I know many people in your boat. 60-70 hr weeks are not uncommon. This is usually because of piss poor planning, emergencies or management wanting to squeeze more work out of the same amount of employees (usually with veiled threats that they might have to offshore some of the development because the locals can't keep up). BTW, what quality of work is expected after a certain amount of time. 100hrs/week is roughly 14 hour days (assuming 7 days a week) and most people burn out way before they hit that mark.As a software developer and electrical engineer I can tell you that at most I would hit 50 hour weeks and that would be infrequent. I regularly work 40-42 hour weeks and I can also tell you that if I was expected to work 1.5 - 2x that, they would be looking for a new engineer, because I can do the math. I negotiated my salary based on a 40hour week. If I double that 2 things happen: a- I work for half the amount (per hour) and b) my personal life suffers.Neither of that is acceptable - last I checked I'm an employee of the company not a slave.[/citation[citation][nom]stravis[/nom]Would you care to elaborate (you contradict your own argument in the above quote). If the EPA and the so called tree huggers are so bad for corporations in the US, why are companies like BMW, Toyota, KIA and others building plants here?[/citation]

Trade unions, the south does not have unions & the north does. Unions, taxes & the EPA makes this country very unfriendly to business & will be our down fall. I do not want to pollute streams & knock down the mountains, but we are losing are edge to the Chi-Coms b/c of the regulations.

Are you an American? If so imagine this, America went to a flat tax 15% on all consumption, personal & Corp. This would do away with the IRS & the Progressive income tax. The world will flood the U.S.A with money & Companies would be beating down our doors to get in. That is how we can turn this around, not with more regulations, unions & taxes.

Then the States demand the Fed. government to balance the budget & payoff all of the debt we owe, meaning we do not owe any other country money. Then the history books will look to us as the GREATEST GENERATION EVER & not 20's or the 40's.

 

[Dirty Durden]

[citation][nom]stravis[/nom]Couple of points.[citation]They need to make their country more business friendly[/citation]I don't think one can make a country more business friendly than providing them with slave labor. I'm not sure what the next level would be.[citation]We have people starving in America because we are not a business friendly country anymore. [/citation]That's a load of crap. We are the world's largest consumer of goods and as such we should have the ability to determine where our products come from. However, we as individuals, are ok with companies using slave labor in other countries as long as we can get our goods for the lowest possible price. Unfortunately that is a recipe for disaster; you can try debating tax cuts with me but you'll be wrong. Just ask the good folks at Whirlpool (1100 employees) who are seeing the plant shut down and moved to Mexico - AFTER Whirlpool got $20M from the Stimulus bill.[citation]China will be the superpower & America [/citation]Too late. China already owns all our IP and our manufacturing. They can at a moment's notice bootleg anything and everything we make. Our corporations are focused on the short term and haven't noticed that they have forfeited all their designs to the Chinese.It's easy enough to crush that type of operation (offshoring all our plants and engineering) but none of our politicians have the balls to pull the trigger do it.[/citation]


[citation]We have people starving in America because we are not a business friendly country anymore. [/citation]
That's a load of crap. We are the world's largest consumer of goods and as such we should have the ability to determine where our products come from. However, we as individuals, are ok with companies using slave labor in other countries as long as we can get our goods for the lowest possible price. Unfortunately that is a recipe for disaster; you can try debating tax cuts with me but you'll be wrong. Just ask the good folks at Whirlpool (1100 employees) who are seeing the plant shut down and moved to Mexico - AFTER Whirlpool got $20M from the Stimulus bill.

Their is big difference between a government hand out & the government cutting your tax. Just like tax returns you spend that money & it is gone. But if the Fed. cut your taxes that will continue for years to come & you would up grade your life according. Think of it this way, a Stimulus is short term & tax cuts are long lasting. I do not blame Whirlpool & you should not ether. WE NEED TO BLAME OUR GOVERNMENT, they are the ones that jack up the taxes & regulations up on businesses. The businesses are reacting & voting with their feet.

 

[azgard]

[citation][nom]slymaelstrom[/nom]This is lame... so they were underage when they were hired but aren't underage, now, which likely means they were hired maybe six months to a year before they reached legal age. It's not like we're talking about little eight year old soldering resistors onto motherboards 15 hours a day... we're talking about a manager hiring a teenage off the books so he can pay for clothes or school supplies.Also, sixty hours a week isn't an overwhelming amount of time... granted that "forcing" people to work that amount of time is pretty uncouth in the USA and most modern civilization, but it's pretty common practice in your poorer countries to work long hours in order to pay the bills.I'm not trying to say that these aren't bad things, but clearly Apple is taking an initiative on fixing them which is pretty noble when you consider that companies like Nike have employers in India that literally OWN the children that work for them and are treated like slaves while the corporate side just denies it all.[/citation]
Apple also found more than 50 factories that forced employees to work longer than Apple's maximum 60-hour weeks.

 

[maydaynomore]

I knew it! Its children's blood and tears that make Apple products so special.

 

[seantm]

Apple should just produce all its products in the US and Canada. I'm sure if you are willing to pay the extra 500-1000 dollars now you can pay the extra 500 on top of that for having it made in America not by slave labor.

 

[grieve]

[citation][nom]slymaelstrom[/nom]Really? Perhaps we have different work experiences... In software development, I've logged 100+ hour weeks multiple times and during busy parts of the year it's not uncommon to log 70-80 hours each week. That, by the way, is not overtime for me because I'm on salary and am exempt from overtime pay. In my business, working the standard 40 hours a week probably means you aren't working enough.Like I said... it's a crazy sounding thing out here to think of teenagers working 60 hour a week... but visit half of the countries in the list at the end of this article and I'm sure you find most of the working teenagers log that much time regularly.[/citation]
Do you get days owed?

I am also on Salarie... I work 40hr weeks. If i work 1hr over 40 i bank it, when i get 8hrs banked i take a day off. I have had 50hr weeks and generally the week after i take an extra day off.

If those extra hours you work are just 'given" to the company i would look long and hard @ your working conditions!

 

[anamaniac]

Making sure stuff is done right. Good job Macintosh.
Don't think I've said that before. =)

 

[buwish]

Just one of the many problems with international economies. We may have laws against it, but many other countries, especially those that cannot be considered modern do not.

 

[rajaton]

[citation][nom]dman3k[/nom]Boycott Apple[/citation]

Yes because that will totally help everything...if people don't buy computers, the business lays people off. Better to work for below minimum wage than not work.

 

[Guest]

Please stop looking at this through American colored glasses. What were these kids doing before they were hired? Ask yourself this question: Which is worse - every 14 year old in the country working 60 hours a wk, or no 14 year old working at all. Seems to me you stop being a 3rd world country by working. The more that work the better. Children working 60 hr /wks is not the end goal; but it sure beats the alternative: Children working the street corner.
So relax. Enjoy the cheaper product. and be thankful that a family today is better off than they were yesterday. (Do you really think the family is better off when Apple fires the 14 yr old?)