Apple Asked Microsoft to Stop Laptop Hunters

[aracheb]

[citation][nom]zelannii[/nom]OK, first, you better cite a source. Then, cite a source showing PC users have a better level of technology education.Also, customers don;t get to see the box, except from a distance, until; they make a purchase decision. All the technical detail and pricing is displayed on the card in front of the displayed machine, and is exactly identical in content for both PCs and Macs. What's it issue is that little card only sais Processor speed (not type/model), RAM size (not speed), HDD size (and typically not speed), Optical drive type, and wireless card type. It lacks inclusions about backlit keyboard, 7 hour battery, graphics adapter (sometimes included), web cam, bluetooth, aluminum construction, firewire, and other hardware features nearly every mac has that few PCs in the same processor and size class come equipped with. It;s simply not a fair comparrison of specs.Go to Apple.com, pick almost any model, then go to Dell and try to configure a machine to match the specs, same or better on all counts (i'll even let you exclude the battery life, SD reader, and backlit keyboard, and i'll even let the Dell weigh up to 2 lbs more)... Good luck. Get a gaming notebook from dell under $1500, a video editing notebook under $1000, a 24" anything, an 8core Xeon for even CLOSE to the PowerMac's price and features, a battery lasting more than 3 hours that's not in a netbook that offers a GPU and and even half the value adds of the macbook pro, they simply don't have it.Yea, if you're looking for a generic POS to do little more than surf the web, email, and blog, absolutely there are cheaper machines out there, I'm not contesting that. That's not Apple's market, and they really could care less. Apple is only interested in selling machines to poeple who want to do something with media, like manage tens of thousands of pictures, edit video, or run higher end software. Look at their adds, short of the whole "OS X doesn't crash" thing, it's all about doing things el-cheapo PCs can't do at all, or do so aggrivatingly slowly.[/citation]

so you are saying that if you buy a regular mac you are able to edith professional video and do 3d animations and many other professional stuff, in el cheapo way?
or i'm wrong..
because as far as i know, the mac that i own, macbook pro "Was a gift from my sister" does not perform in a professional way when i'm about to render some 3d graphics. instead, if i want to render something 3d i have to buy a 3,000 usd mac workstation, and beside buy the video card, that they will sell to me for 2500 to 3000 more, because they have certified, when i buy the same workstation video card for a little bit more than 1000.00 in the market, and put a better spec workstation, with some opteron for half the price they are trying to shove into me.

sorry to open your eyes, if you want to do some professional work on mac, you have to spend, the double or triple in hardware and buy your professional applications. It just happens to be a lot cheaper on a pc.

 

[captaincharisma]

they all suck but dell laptops are definitely way better than the crap laptop's/ PC's HP puts out there

 

[AlphaOmegaX]

@zelanni:

Since you posted a bunch of useless crap this is what caught my interest most...

"Apple is only interested in selling machines to poeple who want to do something with media, like manage tens of thousands of pictures, edit video, or run higher end software."

First: I know plenty of pc users who manage thousands of pictures. I've got well over sixty three. Yes 6-3 thousand pictures that I manage. The fun fact is that now, Macs aren't the super exclusive media producing power houses that they used to be. Bands and Media creators use Pc's too. Look at workstations. You can dump less money into a pc workstation that performs better than any mac on the market. Last, what exactly is "high end software"? OS X? Must be, because there isn't much else that you can't get on pc...besides what, GarageBand? When there is a multitude of programs on pc that handle music production better given you take the time to learn it.

You know what else tom's? Nobody talks about the horror's of mac's repair process because everyone thinks it's great. How's this for you. Sister buys a new macbook against my wishes, Hard drive fails and shorts inside the damn thing. All kinds of crap goes wrong. She ships it off to Apple and four months later, FOUR MONTHS, mind you it was about one month old, she gets it back. They were busy apparently.

 

[fulle]

@Zel

You're so full of shit, its just sad to see how brainwashed people can get.

A Baseline Macbook Pro 13" costs $1200...
It has only 2.26GHz Core2Duo, 2GB of 1066MHz DDR3, a 160GB Serial ATA Drive @5400 rpm. The screen and videocard are OK... (9400M integrated, kinda low res LED screen covered in glass with "meh" view angles). Build quality is pretty good, and its a nice aluminum case.

The closes thing Dell has is a XPS M1330. It comes stock only a 2.1GHz T8100 (slightly weaker CPU), but 4GB of RAM, and 250GB HD. Upgrading to a 2.4GHz CPU comparable to what's in the Apple raises the price to $900. Upgrading to a 320GB 5400rpm HD costs nothing or 250GB 7200rpm HD is also a free upgrade (regardless the HD is better than Apple's).

So, basically for 900 dollars you can get a system that is pretty much on par with a $1200 Macbook. And thats with pretty minimal edge going to Apple on things like support and build quality (I think Apple support is a joke, but that's another rant). For a the 300 dollar difference, a college student could add a larger battery and TV tuner to the dell, and still have enough to upgrade to a better processor... making the machine easily superior.

There are Gaming notebooks for under 1500, they just are usually a little bulky, or require compromises. The NP8662, my personal favorite, has a starting price of right about 1500 depending on where you buy. Several Asus, MSI, and Gateway gaming laptops are well under 1500, or even have dropped below the 1k mark at times.

Apple computers are still priced a few hundred dollars too high. Their prices are at least within the realm of reality now, but still somewhat unreasonable in this type of a global recession.

 

[rocman3001]

[citation][nom]zelannii[/nom]OK, first, you better cite a source. Then, cite a source showing PC users have a better level of technology education.Also, customers don;t get to see the box, except from a distance, until; they make a purchase decision. All the technical detail and pricing is displayed on the card in front of the displayed machine, and is exactly identical in content for both PCs and Macs. What's it issue is that little card only sais Processor speed (not type/model), RAM size (not speed), HDD size (and typically not speed), Optical drive type, and wireless card type. It lacks inclusions about backlit keyboard, 7 hour battery, graphics adapter (sometimes included), web cam, bluetooth, aluminum construction, firewire, and other hardware features nearly every mac has that few PCs in the same processor and size class come equipped with. It;s simply not a fair comparrison of specs.Go to Apple.com, pick almost any model, then go to Dell and try to configure a machine to match the specs, same or better on all counts (i'll even let you exclude the battery life, SD reader, and backlit keyboard, and i'll even let the Dell weigh up to 2 lbs more)... Good luck. Get a gaming notebook from dell under $1500, a video editing notebook under $1000, a 24" anything, an 8core Xeon for even CLOSE to the PowerMac's price and features, a battery lasting more than 3 hours that's not in a netbook that offers a GPU and and even half the value adds of the macbook pro, they simply don't have it.Yea, if you're looking for a generic POS to do little more than surf the web, email, and blog, absolutely there are cheaper machines out there, I'm not contesting that. That's not Apple's market, and they really could care less. Apple is only interested in selling machines to poeple who want to do something with media, like manage tens of thousands of pictures, edit video, or run higher end software. Look at their adds, short of the whole "OS X doesn't crash" thing, it's all about doing things el-cheapo PCs can't do at all, or do so aggrivatingly slowly.[/citation]

Well, at the very least I think the spell check on my PC works somewhat "aggrivatingly" fast-ish.

Also, I suppose I tend to run middle-end stuff. So I see your argument there. Although I have to confess, sometimes I give in to my urge for some highest-end fun!

I do have a question - do excuse me since I am easily confused - are you saying the specification card in front of apple machines do or don't include the info as you pointed out? I don't know about you, but CPU model/type, RAM & HD speed are all kinda important, at least to me. I would hate to buy a machine speced at say 3GHz only. Is it AMD? Intel? *gasp* PowerPC?

 

[pug_s]

I don't see what is so bad about these commercials. Apple has been bashing Microsoft with their "I'm a mac and I'm PC" for years. If Apple's 'impeccable' brand can't stand the heat, maybe they should stay out from the kitchen.

 

[captaincharisma]

I do have a question - do excuse me since I am easily confused - are you saying the specification card in front of apple machines do or don't include the info as you pointed out? I don't know about you, but CPU model/type, RAM & HD speed are all kinda important, at least to me. I would hate to buy a machine speced at say 3GHz only. Is it AMD? Intel? *gasp* PowerPC?

I don't know but if they didn't it must have been a real mess buying a mac the year they started rolling out the Intel macs. they all look the same but you don't know if you have a powerpc or intel inside when you go buy it

 

[mdillenbeck]

I can believe they didn't write a script for these commercials. However, that doesn't mean the people were not carefully selected to have a certain set of results. You find people who want to spend under $1000 and you make a big cut into who will be buying a Mac. You find people looking for a large range of games and you make a big cut into who will be buying a Mac. You find people who already have a Windows desktop system at home and you will make a big cut into who will be buying a Mac. Then you edit, edit, edit!

Voila! No script needed, because with the right people and enough footage, you can easily create a pre-planned message. Try it some time - pick your favorite hated figure on TV and get about 100 hours of tape on them, then edit clips to make them seem like a stupid idiot.

As to the whole "Mac is easy, even a moron can use it" - well, it took my mom a few months to learn to use both the Mac and the PC. Occasionally, she messes both systems up and I have to come fix something. Sometimes the issue isn't even related to the computer (such as her email service goes down temporarily). She is totally computer illiterate. To work on her mac (and linux), I still rely on the web because I have no familiarity with its guts - I'm a Windows person. Based on this experience and conversations with other hybrid users, I'd say that there is really no difference in the ease of use of either system. Its just the baby duckling syndrome (where what you use first is what you'll follow around in your buying life). This is called creating brand loyalty. Apple is way better at doing this than Microsoft, but Microsoft still knows how to do it also.

Getting back to this article, if true there is one easy solution. On the laptop hunter commercials, all they have to do is add a disclaimer text on the bottom stating when the hunts were conducted. That way people know they are talking about past pricing, and that it may have changed - but that the general trend is still true. Macs tend to be more expensive than many (not all) people's desired budgets. Windows based laptop will fall inside that budget.

 

[producepete]

Unless I hear a recording of this phone call, I don't believe it for a second. I'm sure Apple is not very fond of the laptop hunter commercials, but I can't imagine they would actually call Microsoft over it.

 

[nicklasd87]

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=macs_cant

This sums up what I would have to say...What isn't covered in this though is that if you want the latest and greatest hardware, you won't find it on a Mac. Show me a custom built mac...and then show me a custom built mac running an i7...I think Asus will steal the crown from Mac when it comes to asthetically pleasing and simple to use products with their EeePc hackbooks. I have one, and I love it almost as much as the i7 system I built a few months ago.

 

[Guest]

To respond to this

"I don't buy it, personally I think that Microsoft is taking cheap shots at Apple with these adds. In one of them a kid is looking for one for "gaming" and he spends under 800$, not possible if this kid is playing anything REMOTELY recent."

WRONG, utterly completely wrong.

Best Buy has the Asus G50Vt-X5 for $850
15.6" 720p display
Core 2 Duo at 2.13ghz
4gb DDR2
320gb 7200rpm hard drive.
Nvidia 9800m GS with 512mb Gddr3

Tell me what games this system CAN'T play?

For $150 more you can also step up to the G51VX-RX05 which gives you a speedier Nvidia GTX 260m with 1gb of video memory.

What specs does a macbook have at $1000?
13.3" 1280x800 display
2.13GHz
Intel Core 2 Duo
2GB DDR2 Memory
160GB hard drive at 5400 rpm.
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M graphics
Standard keyboard

Which system would you rather have for gaming?

 

[TEAMSWITCHER]

I've got five bucks that Microsoft will pull at least some of the ads. Apple dropped prices recently and the information quoted in the commercials is now inaccurate. They can't afford a trial over the next two years, they are getting sued for false advertising. That would completely undermine any success that these commercials might have had. I also saw a picture if this Microsoft guy, and can tell you for sure, that he cannot do a single cart-wheel.

Oh yea and one more thing. My MacBook Pro running Mac OS X is far, far better than any Windows PC laptop that I have ever owned. I won't be switching back any time soon. FWIW.

 

[AlphaOmegaX]

I found this on Apple's site:

Every new iMac includes high-performance NVIDIA graphics standard. Now games run smoother, photos load faster, and pro applications have even more power. The 20-inch iMac with the NVIDIA GeForce 9400M integrated graphics processor delivers up to 2.3x faster graphics performance.1 The 24-inch iMac gives you even more graphics options. The NVIDIA GeForce 9400M integrated graphics processor makes viewing web pages and searching through your iPhoto library smoother and more efficient. Or you can choose NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 discrete graphics to take 3D graphics up a notch. For 3D graphics-intensive games or pro applications like Aperture and Motion, the NVIDIA GeForce GT 130 and ATI Radeon HD 4850 processors deliver the fastest graphics performance yet.

You've got to be kidding me right?

That last sentence slays me.

/end discussion

 

[zelannii]

@rocman3001

The card does indicate processor (as in CoreDuo 2.4GHz), but that's acctualy not good information... Is it a 65 or 45 nm chip? How much cache does it have? does it have VM technology support, emt64, etc? Is it even a laptop chip or a desktop chip?

As for RAM, it will say "2GB" sometimes it will even say "DDR3" but rarely is any infomration obout bus speed or RAM speed in GHz provided except in the technical specifications online.

I can find you 2.4GHz notebooks with DDR3 that will be TROUNCED in performance by 2.0GHz machines that cost the same or less but have better underlying support components or specs.

 

[mebadandy]

zelannii :
OK, first, you better cite a source. Then, cite a source showing PC users have a better level of technology education.Also, customers don;t get to see the box, except from a distance, until; they make a purchase decision. All the technical detail and pricing is displayed on the card in front of the displayed machine, and is exactly identical in content for both PCs and Macs. What's it issue is that little card only sais Processor speed (not type/model), RAM size (not speed), HDD size (and typically not speed), Optical drive type, and wireless card type. It lacks inclusions about backlit keyboard, 7 hour battery, graphics adapter (sometimes included), web cam, bluetooth, aluminum construction, firewire, and other hardware features nearly every mac has that few PCs in the same processor and size class come equipped with. It;s simply not a fair comparrison of specs.Go to Apple.com, pick almost any model, then go to Dell and try to configure a machine to match the specs, same or better on all counts (i'll even let you exclude the battery life, SD reader, and backlit keyboard, and i'll even let the Dell weigh up to 2 lbs more)... Good luck. Get a gaming notebook from dell under $1500, a video editing notebook under $1000, a 24" anything, an 8core Xeon for even CLOSE to the PowerMac's price and features, a battery lasting more than 3 hours that's not in a netbook that offers a GPU and and even half the value adds of the macbook pro, they simply don't have it.Yea, if you're looking for a generic POS to do little more than surf the web, email, and blog, absolutely there are cheaper machines out there, I'm not contesting that. That's not Apple's market, and they really could care less. Apple is only interested in selling machines to poeple who want to do something with media, like manage tens of thousands of pictures, edit video, or run higher end software. Look at their adds, short of the whole "OS X doesn't crash" thing, it's all about doing things el-cheapo PCs can't do at all, or do so aggrivatingly slowly.

4 months ago I bought a HP entertainment laptop with a 18.4" 1080p display, T9600 2.8ghz Core2 Duo, 2GB of DDR2(DDR3 was available at no extra charge but it costs more to upgrade later)Nvidia 9600M GT 512mb video card, 320gb hard drive, web cam, wireless n, Blu-Ray super multi drive, Vista ultimate 64bit, web cam, fingerprint reader, and the list goes on. I paid $1279.99 directly from HPs website. I dare anyone try to find something with those specs at the Apple store for that price. Feel free to use a 17" display in your pricing because Apple does not have a 18.4. By the way, I replaced the 2GB of DDR2 with 4GB of faster OCZ memory from NewEgg for $40. I just checked the Apple store and found similar but slower memory for $200! That is 5x the price! I wish you Apple guys the best of luck with your finances. Money is too tight for me to flush mine down the toilet.

 

[jgiron]

LOL!
I love this! The basic user wants to send mail, do documents and minor things. Why pay twice the amount for basic usage? Besides after a few months the computer depreciates in price and in a couple of years you get a new one. This comment is for the basic computer usage person, not the high end gamers, video editors etc...

 

[AlphaOmegaX]

I lied. It's not over.

Apple's "Beast" Mac Pro has an...AWESOME GT 120! You can have FOUR for 450 dollars more! Too bad the GT120 is worse than the 8600gt's of...last...last year?

They're charging 200 dollars for a 65 dollar hard drive and ONLY. You ready for it? No included software

 

[purplerat]

[citation][nom]elrabin[/nom]To respond to this "I don't buy it, personally I think that Microsoft is taking cheap shots at Apple with these adds. In one of them a kid is looking for one for "gaming" and he spends under 800$, not possible if this kid is playing anything REMOTELY recent."WRONG, utterly completely wrong.Best Buy has the Asus G50Vt-X5 for $85015.6" 720p displayCore 2 Duo at 2.13ghz4gb DDR2320gb 7200rpm hard drive.Nvidia 9800m GS with 512mb Gddr3Tell me what games this system CAN'T play?For $150 more you can also step up to the G51VX-RX05 which gives you a speedier Nvidia GTX 260m with 1gb of video memory.What specs does a macbook have at $1000?13.3" 1280x800 display2.13GHzIntel Core 2 Duo2GB DDR2 Memory160GB hard drive at 5400 rpm.NVIDIA GeForce 9400M graphicsStandard keyboardWhich system would you rather have for gaming?[/citation]
Absolutely correct. I bought the G50Vt-X5 a couple months ago and there isn't a game out there you can throw at it and give it any trouble. I consider it a very good gaming laptop and it's barely over $800. For $650-$800 you can easily get a laptop that will handle most games at average-high settings. You'd be surprised what a mid-range IGP can handle in a laptop with 4GB of RAM and C2D for gaming.

 

[hakesterman]

I'll take a Imac over a PC any day of the week. I don't have all
those software crashes and memmory crashes and Virus invasions that
i use to have on a PC. As far as the comercial goes i have to agree
with most people above me who simply state the cheap laptops they are
buying. If you want garbage than buy it. But with that said if you buy
a PC, which i won't anymore but if i did it wouldn't be a cheap one like
they advertise in the Microsoft comercials, their garbage.

 

[hakesterman]

I'll take a Imac over a PC any day of the week. I don't have all
those software crashes and memmory crashes and Virus invasions that
i use to have on a PC. As far as the comercial goes i have to agree
with most people above me who simply state the cheap laptops they are
buying. If you want garbage than buy it. But with that said if you buy
a PC, which i won't anymore but if i did it wouldn't be a cheap one like
they advertise in the Microsoft comercials, their garbage.

 

[Guest]

"I've got five bucks that Microsoft will pull at least some of the ads. Apple dropped prices recently and the information quoted in the commercials is now inaccurate. They can't afford a trial over the next two years, they are getting sued for false advertising. That would completely undermine any success that these commercials might have had. I also saw a picture if this Microsoft guy, and can tell you for sure, that he cannot do a single cart-wheel.

Oh yea and one more thing. My MacBook Pro running Mac OS X is far, far better than any Windows PC laptop that I have ever owned. I won't be switching back any time soon. FWIW."

Regardless of of individual preferences...this does seem to be related to false advertising. The point is not one of comparability, but simply one of a changing price point for a mac which is no longer accurately presented in the commercial. I think it is a fair for the MS employee to interpret the price change as a success, but it could be a spurious one given the current economic climate. Regardless of the reason for the price drop, if I worked in advertising for Microsoft and would sure as hell interpret this as a win.

 

[zelannii]

Here's a comparrison for you:
Dell Studio 14z: same specs across the board as Apple base "white" macbook: (ok, the dell has 1GB extra ram, but slower bus speed) 2.13GHz, 250GB 5400, Wireless n, bluetooth, larger battery, Vista ultimate (lets be fair)CDRW. What I can't match, NO firewire, still less battery life with expanded cells, CD is EXTERNAL!, no video editing suite, no web publishing suite, no PDF writer, no photo management software.

That said, dell is $1129, Mac is $999...

Don't even ask for a comparrison on the Pro line. Dels closest machine that touches either the look/feel of the design is $2000 (Adamo) and the closest thing that touches the video performance and gaming potential (you're clearly looking at high end machines if the white macbook isn't powerful enough) is an alienware 17 monster weighing 11 lbs.

Microosft's success with their shopper line is in people who are picking machines simply underclassed to handle the expected (stated in commercail) tasks. An $800 machine for an amature videographer??? (has she ever connected a camera to a PC before, or read the specs on the software package she'll use) A $600 machine for a college student??? (did they check their college's enrollment guide and system requirements)

These are stupid people (one confirmed to be an actress btw), who don;t know WHAT they're buying. Apple doesn't WANT uninformed buyers, they cost too much to support and suck off all the profits.

Oh yea, for those uninformed, Apple support DOES assist with software issues under the waranty, Dell does not, they reference you to microsoft, who charges $199 to open a ticket per incident before they even ask what the "incident" is... Put a value on that...

 

[zelannii]

Whoever is comparing Apple's prices against the "basic user" STOP. That's complete bullshit. If you want to argue that, go ask a BMW salesman why anyone walks in their showroom. Apple does NOT sell or market "basic" user machines. They are UNINTERESTED in the basic user market. They PURPOSELY do not sell a machine in that class.

If they wanted to, it would be EASy for them. Just take the white macbook, remove the webcam, drop wireless n to wireless g, remove the backlight, firewire, bluetooth, drop the screen res, shorten the battery life, and it would easily be a $500 machine... Using OS X is about the EXPERIENCE of the OS GIU, and the management of all your stuff. If all you do is surf the web, and don't have lots of stuff and dont do home movies, then you don't have a use case for OS X, SO DON'T BUY IT!

Compare the specs of any machine Apple sells to any machine Dell, HP, or the other major vendors sell, in the same class of components, Apple bounces between $100 more and $200 less per model. Even subtract the "gimmick" features like webcams, backlit keyboards, etc, and simply focus on the core components of screen res, CPU performance, RAM size and speed, HDD size and speed, wireless capabilities, and bluetooth, and Apple is RIGHT IN LINE with the PC pricing (and throws in the equivalent of hundreds of dollars in software free, and will actually SUPPORT the software and not redirect you to microsofts fee based and unfriendly services).

 

[DjEaZy]

... it is all oranges and apple's...

 

[Miharu]

[citation][nom]pug_s[/nom]I don't see what is so bad about these commercials. Apple has been bashing Microsoft with their "I'm a mac and I'm PC" for years. If Apple's 'impeccable' brand can't stand the heat, maybe they should stay out from the kitchen.[/citation]

It's really kinda funny.
"I'm a Mac and I'm PC"... but you can't actually tell you paid too much for your Mac...

Beg Apple beg... but the fact is 1499$ (2.53Ghz) for a 13' screen... it's totally over priced.

I read someone bashing about ram speed, processor,... hes said "it's too hard to understand."
Totally right but if you don't do it you buy a 1499$ Mac thinking you have a great and powerful machine. In fact is... it's just a normal machine with an old Intel Duo core...
[citation]It has only 2.26GHz Core2Duo, 2GB of 1066MHz DDR3, a 160GB Serial ATA Drive @5400 rpm. The screen and videocard are OK... (9400M integrated, kinda low res LED screen covered in glass with "meh" view angles). Build quality is pretty good, and its a nice aluminum case.
[/citation]
The screen is small... you can't play an med Blue-ray quality (1650x1050)..
There is an option on Apple website.. Apple LED Cinema Display (24” flat panel) [Add $899.00]!!!!!!!!

Great look... but if I feel... I won't paid 1199$+tax( Mac 2.2Ghz model) for something like a netbook (300$+tax).............