Apple Forecasted To Become 5th Largest PC Brand in 2013

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Actually, there is no $2500 Mac Pro that includes a display. Here are the spec sheets:
Click to expand...

As a mac fan, even I disregard the Mac Pro, I built my own hackintosh that will out perform for comparative pennies. They haven't really tried to keep that competitive imo.
 
[citation][nom]kinggremlin[/nom]Actually, there is no $2500 Mac Pro that includes a display. Here are the spec sheets:http://store.apple.com/us_smb_7831 [...] ly/mac_proThere is absolutely no way possible to argue that you are getting what you pay for here. None whatsoever.Single quad core Xeon, 6GB RAM, Radeon 5770, 1 TB SATA HD, NO DISPLAY.A 5770 in a $2500 computer? You want to splurge and get upgrade to a 5870? $200 $200 to UPGRADE from a 5770! Or for only $250, you can add a 2nd 5770.You are absolutely out of your mind if you think Apple computers are anything but horrendous value for your money.[/citation]


We are obviously talking about different machines. I'm talking about Macbook Pro laptops that go for $2500 and you're talking about desktops. Notice I ask for PC laptop comparisons and give price ranges for 1080p PC laptops. I was asking where you could find a comparable display for a PC laptop that is $1000, answer is you can't. Not talking about desktops at all.
 
[citation][nom]BulkZerker[/nom]Much as i dont care for apple this is probably going to hold true thanks to win 8. Unless generak consumers actually like the metro ui, which i honestly cant see happening thanjs to most users being used to the start button...[/citation]

Most users in work use the start button for one thing... shutting down. Their application shortcuts are on the task bar and they usually open files from with the application itself. Most consumers don't even know where to find Office once the shortcuts are in place.

 
[citation][nom]damianrobertjones[/nom]Most users in work use the start button for one thing... shutting down. Their application shortcuts are on the task bar and they usually open files from with the application itself. Most consumers don't even know where to find Office once the shortcuts are in place.[/citation]
Well.... I use the Start button for just about everything. The only icon on my desktop is the Recycle Bin, and the only three programs pinned to my task bar are Chrome, Outlook, and Explorer.

[citation][nom]freggo[/nom]I work IT since the late 70s. Back then the Apple II and later the IIc where to replace the C-64s etc.Never happened of course.The MacIntosh was supposed to take on the PC market; never happened.and this will not change. Apple is not going after the low margin mass market, they aim for high markup products; also the Mini iPad may tempt them to try otherwise.Kinda like Mercedes did with the 190 Series or Porsche with the 924s; what a mistake that was.High end and mass market simply do not mix.[/citation]

True, in order to become as large as Windows is, they have to appeal to the lower-end market, which they really haven't done since the Apple II days.

And to be fair, I do not think Mac will ever be the backbone of the IT world. The backbone (aka: servers) will belong to Linux/Windows for the foreseeable future. Apple seems to be making no attempt to go after servers, especially after they canceled the Xserve a couple of years ago, and have stopped releasing major updates to the server version of Mac OS X.

That said, I think we will be seeing many more Macs on office desks in the future than we have in the past--especially since Apple support for Exchange and Active Directory has greatly improved over the years.

BUT, could be totally wrong.
 
[citation][nom]itsnotmeitsyou[/nom]assuming you are referring to the MB retina, you do realize the cheapest monitor you can but with 2,560 x 1,600 res is over $1100 yeah? make sure you ad a premium mobo with Thunderbolt, a custom battery pack, and a machined aluminum case. etc...I think if you look more closely at what you are getting, design and form-factor included you will find its not that bad of a deal. Surely you could build a machine cheaper. but OEM comparisons are rather modest differences, arguably made up in the build quality.but haters gunna hate i s'pose.[/citation]
The only laptops that Apple has that there is no alternative is the ones with the retina display. All others we can find a cheaper alternative with equal build quality.
 
[citation][nom]Ragnar-Kon[/nom]Well.... I use the Start button for just about everything. The only icon on my desktop is the Recycle Bin, and the only three programs pinned to my task bar are Chrome, Outlook, and Explorer.[/citation]
So install Stardock or whatever the app is called that gives you start menu. I honestly dont' get that complaint...the switch to the new UI is fluid, very fast and doesn't interrupt any of your work (even when gaming)
 
[citation][nom]wemakeourfuture[/nom]We are obviously talking about different machines. I'm talking about Macbook Pro laptops that go for $2500 and you're talking about desktops. Notice I ask for PC laptop comparisons and give price ranges for 1080p PC laptops. I was asking where you could find a comparable display for a PC laptop that is $1000, answer is you can't. Not talking about desktops at all.[/citation]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834152339

$939
 
While you're trying to come up with some BS to counter that. Compare it to this base configuration 15" MBP w/out retina display:

http://store.apple.com/us_smb_78313/configure/MD103LL/A?=

Same CPU
MBP has more RAM (8 vs 6GB)
same video card except MSI has 4x more RAM (2GB vs 512MB)
MSI has larger and faster HD (750GB 7200RPM vs 500GB 5400RPM)
MSI slightly larger display (15.6 vs 15)
MSI has higher resolution as well (1920x1080 vs 1440x900)
Shipping is free for both

Now factor in that you have to pay taxes on the Apple and you will find that the MBP cost more than TWICE as much as the MSI while having inferior specs almost across the board.
 
[citation][nom]kinggremlin[/nom]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6834152339$939[/citation]

1. Over 5 pounds, yikes! 1 pound heavier, not in the same class
2. Using crappy plastic, that's why Dell and Sony aluminum ultrabooks are all over $1500 bucks with an decent specs, not even close in terms of build materials
3. Thickness of it is nearly 80% more than the 15" retina 0.71 inches compared to 1.27" and gets to be even more at 1.46 inches (I guess when closed, so that's 100% thicker)

Next will you show me a 17 inch monster laptop at $1000 and say its the same?

An MSI is like comparing a KIA to Lexus and BMW. Different build quality, design, materials used

By the way, closer competition are:

Sony Z series 13.1 inches start at $1549
( http://store.sony.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=100803&storeId=20153&langId=200&identifier=S_Laptops_Z )

Dell's XPS15 is $1700, again over 5 pounds (pound heavier), display resolution is less, but has Blu-Ray and 2GB video.

( http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=btct52c&model_id=xps-15-l521x&c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04 )


* Note: none have the PPI quality of the Macbook Pro Display

 
The only laptops that Apple has that there is no alternative is the ones with the retina display. All others we can find a cheaper alternative with equal build quality.
Click to expand...

interesting, I did a search on Amazon for a windows laptop with thunderbolt. The average msrp is around $1200. Macbook airs start at $999.
 
The greatest mistake for windows laptops is that OEM's should have made regular laptops with thunderbolt ports in them for around $600-$800 range, now the only windows laptops that have thunderbolt ports in them are a few ultrabooks that cost more than the Macbook air! And, now, people that want thunderbolt's speed, and soon to be laptop external GPU devices, are going with Apple computers! Apple's exclusive thunderbolt agreement with Intel has been over for almost a year, and yet thunderbolt is mostly no where to be seen on windows PCs! People are reading the reviews of the Lucid external GPU boxes and thinking wow, I can have a laptop and a desktop GPU, But I'll need a laptop with a thunderbolt port, What? I have to pay more for a windows laptop with with thunderbot, than an Apple? I'll just get an Apple and run windows and apple's os on it on it, And plug my thunderbolt external GPU box into it. Great, now I can go to college, and just bring my laptop and external GPU thunderbolt box and leave the clunky desktop at home, and play all the video games with my desktop's GPU!
 
[citation][nom]kinggremlin[/nom]While you're trying to come up with some BS to counter that. Compare it to this base configuration 15" MBP w/out retina display:http://store.apple.com/us_smb_7831 [...] D103LL/A?=Same CPUMBP has more RAM (8 vs 6GB)same video card except MSI has 4x more RAM (2GB vs 512MB)MSI has larger and faster HD (750GB 7200RPM vs 500GB 5400RPM)MSI slightly larger display (15.6 vs 15)MSI has higher resolution as well (1920x1080 vs 1440x900)Shipping is free for bothNow factor in that you have to pay taxes on the Apple and you will find that the MBP cost more than TWICE as much as the MSI while having inferior specs almost across the board.[/citation]
Even if you downgrade the MacBook Pro 15" it still costs more, lol.
 
Apple uses the same components as a regular pc, so i dont see how that comes off as having better hardware. These days you slap an Apple sign on it and people will buy it out of stupidity. Do your research. 30 dollar OS and same hardware specs should'nt come out to that price. The crazy thing is if Apple switches to AMD that the price will probably increase for an inferior product. If Apple says it then it must be true. They have 95% of the population brainwashed into their way of thinking. Its crazy how many people cant think for themselves. They need a multi-billion dollar company telling them to spend more on the same hardware, because in some way the hardware is better. That's just unfathomable.
 
[citation][nom]thomron1977[/nom]Apple uses the same components as a regular pc, so i dont see how that comes off as having better hardware. These days you slap an Apple sign on it and people will buy it out of stupidity. Do your research. 30 dollar OS and same hardware specs should'nt come out to that price. The crazy thing is if Apple switches to AMD that the price will probably increase for an inferior product. If Apple says it then it must be true. They have 95% of the population brainwashed into their way of thinking. Its crazy how many people cant think for themselves. They need a multi-billion dollar company telling them to spend more on the same hardware, because in some way the hardware is better. That's just unfathomable.[/citation]

The OS is only $30 because they charge so much for their hardware.
Windows obviously is not making money on the hardware from Desktops and Laptops, hence why their operating system costs so much more.

They (Apple) do initially put different hardware in their products. If someone wanted thunderbolt in their laptop (ultrabook) they had no option basically but to choose Apple. If someone wants beyond 1080p resolution (Retina) / twice the PPI, again no option but Apple.

When the Macbook Air came out, there was no Aluminum (Metal) based ultrabook, that thin and light. Hence why it was quite a popular product. At the time is was actually cheaper than 13" PCs in that class. Most of the time Macs as you mentioned are significantly more.

Me personally, I don't value these things enough to justify the cost, plus I like Windows better.

Do not forget, when someone has an issue they can just pop into their mall that has an Apple Store, get their problems addressed. Some users feel comfort with this, especially if they have little technical expertise. There's no real good PC comparison. If you buy extended warranties from your retail seller you can get a similar service I suppose.
 
1. Over 5 pounds, yikes! 1 pound heavier, not in the same class
Click to expand...

Seriously? You're complaining about 5 lbs? What are you an anorexic 14 year old girl? And just to add insult to injury, here are the specs of the MBP from Apple's own site:

"Height: 0.95 inch (2.41 cm)
Width: 14.35 inches (36.4 cm)
Depth: 9.82 inches (24.9 cm)
Weight: 5.6 pounds (2.56 kg)3
"

So, the 15.6" MSI weighs 5.28 lbs, and the 15" MBP weighs 5.6 lbs. So what was your over 5 lbs complaint about again?

2. Using crappy plastic, that's why Dell and Sony aluminum ultrabooks are all over $1500 bucks with an decent specs, not even close in terms of build materials
3. Thickness of it is nearly 80% more than the 15" retina 0.71 inches compared to 1.27" and gets to be even more at 1.46 inches (I guess when closed, so that's 100% thicker
Click to expand...

Don't care. You're not even comparing the same laptops I linked to.

Fact: The MSI laptop I posted has better specs and will perform better than the MBP I linked to. The MBP does have 2GB more RAM, but moving from 6 to 8GB will have negligible performance in pretty much all cases.

Fact: Shipped to my door price for both

MSI: $939.99
MPB: $1920.43

That's $980 more for the MBP.

So the gist of the argument here, is that you are trying to convince others that the MBP is a good value for money because it only costs $980 more (105% increase) than a better spec'd Windows laptop because the Apple uses less plastic in the case and and is 1/2 an inch thinner (1.46in vs .95in).

And you claim you aren't an Apple fan? Good luck trying to convince anyone of that.
 
[citation][nom]itsnotmeitsyou[/nom]interesting, I did a search on Amazon for a windows laptop with thunderbolt. The average msrp is around $1200. Macbook airs start at $999.[/citation]
Apparently, thunderbolt is end all be all of computer specs. You also forgot to mention that the Macbook Air you're referring to is the 11 inch version, while the laptop that you saw with thunderbolt that has the price of $1200 is most likely a 13 inch laptop. But let's do a comparison, at the same store the ASUS Zenbook Prime UX31A-DB51 costs about the same as a entry line MacBook Air 13 inch. They have basically the same specs, the difference is that the Air had thunderbolt which the Zenbook doesn't have, but the Zenbook has a 1920x1080 IPS screen while the Air has 1440×900 TN screen. Now I wonder which of the two has the best feature.
 
[citation][nom]UltraCostBooks[/nom]The greatest mistake for windows laptops is that OEM's should have made regular laptops with thunderbolt ports in them for around $600-$800 range, now the only windows laptops that have thunderbolt ports in them are a few ultrabooks that cost more than the Macbook air! And, now, people that want thunderbolt's speed, and soon to be laptop external GPU devices, are going with Apple computers! Apple's exclusive thunderbolt agreement with Intel has been over for almost a year, and yet thunderbolt is mostly no where to be seen on windows PCs! People are reading the reviews of the Lucid external GPU boxes and thinking wow, I can have a laptop and a desktop GPU, But I'll need a laptop with a thunderbolt port, What? I have to pay more for a windows laptop with with thunderbot, than an Apple? I'll just get an Apple and run windows and apple's os on it on it, And plug my thunderbolt external GPU box into it. Great, now I can go to college, and just bring my laptop and external GPU thunderbolt box and leave the clunky desktop at home, and play all the video games with my desktop's GPU![/citation]
May I ask what is the percentage of people using thunderbolt? Does it even reach 1%.

Also could you please state the windows ultrabook with thunderbolt that is more expensive than the Macbook Air?
 
[citation][nom]kinggremlin[/nom]Seriously? You're complaining about 5 lbs? What are you an anorexic 14 year old girl? And just to add insult to injury, here are the specs of the MBP from Apple's own site:"Height: 0.95 inch (2.41 cm) Width: 14.35 inches (36.4 cm) Depth: 9.82 inches (24.9 cm) Weight: 5.6 pounds (2.56 kg)3 "So, the 15.6" MSI weighs 5.28 lbs, and the 15" MBP weighs 5.6 lbs. So what was your over 5 lbs complaint about again?Don't care. You're not even comparing the same laptops I linked to.Fact: The MSI laptop I posted has better specs and will perform better than the MBP I linked to. The MBP does have 2GB more RAM, but moving from 6 to 8GB will have negligible performance in pretty much all cases.Fact: Shipped to my door price for both MSI: $939.99MPB: $1920.43That's $980 more for the MBP.So the gist of the argument here, is that you are trying to convince others that the MBP is a good value for money because it only costs $980 more (105% increase) than a better spec'd Windows laptop because the Apple uses less plastic in the case and and is 1/2 an inch thinner (1.46in vs .95in).And you claim you aren't an Apple fan? Good luck trying to convince anyone of that.[/citation]


LOL you're not even comparing the 15" Retina Macbook Pro:

http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs-retina/


Height: 0.71 inch (1.8 cm)
Width: 14.13 inches (35.89 cm)
Depth: 9.73 inches (24.71 cm)
Weight: 4.46 pounds (2.02 kg)

My numbers are correct not yours.

Again, that MSI laptop closed is TWICE the thickness of the Retina 15" and you think that's the same class of product? Its like comparing a 3" thick laptop against the MSI.

Of course a laptop with plastic and crappy build quality is going to be less. Aluminum is more of a premium material than plastic. It adds to the cost, hence why I was showing a lot closer PC competitors in Sony and Dell.

Simple, find a laptop that's 1080p or more (again Retina is higher), aluminum or better build material, less then 5 pounds, ultabook thickness 0.8 inches or less for $1000, then we can have a real conversation.

By the way, the 2.3 GHz CPU on a 15" Retina has the price of $2199 (256GB flash memory) whereas the 2.6 Ghz with a 512GB Flash memory is the one that is priced at $2799.99

Please do find this $1000 laptop, my wife is looking for a great machine and we don't mind spending up to a $1000, and considering I've only been purchasing windows machine for the past 20 years.

Your comment of: "And you claim you aren't an Apple fan? Good luck trying to convince anyone of that." Doesn't make a lot of sense.
 
Follow the conversation wemakeourfuture.

Your own words:

"A high-end 1080p PC laptop is still at least +$1500-$2000 and that does not have the same display but usually more storage capacity. "

Well, I found one for well under $1000 at $939.

And to drive home the point of how wrong you were I continued by telling you:

"Compare it to this base configuration 15" MBP w/out retina display:"

It's right there in bold that I was linking to the MBP WITHOUT the retina display.

Why did I do that?

Because the differences between the retina display model and the regular model spec wise are the retina display (obviously), the addition of a 256GB SSD instead of the 500GB 5400RPM drive and a bump in video RAM to 1GB (MSI has 2GB, so MBP still inferior).

All that for "only" $400 more. Since the MSI does not have the retina display I chose the regular MBP because it brought the prices closer together which HELPED Apple in this comparison.

You, however, were to dumb to figure that out and went off rambling about meaningless junk that did nothing but make the point you were trying to make look more idiotic.

Your comment of: "And you claim you aren't an Apple fan? Good luck trying to convince anyone of that." Doesn't make a lot of sense.
Click to expand...

Only a fan of Apple products would try to argue that cosmetic touches and functionally irrelevant physical differences are worth a 100%+ markup on price. But again, Apple users aren't generally known for their smarts, so I'm not suprised you have such a poor understanding of what performance per dollar value means.
 
[citation][nom]kinggremlin[/nom]Follow the conversation wemakeourfuture.Your own words:"A high-end 1080p PC laptop is still at least +$1500-$2000 and that does not have the same display but usually more storage capacity. "Well, I found one for well under $1000 at $939.And to drive home the point of how wrong you were I continued by telling you:"Compare it to this base configuration 15" MBP w/out retina display:"It's right there in bold that I was linking to the MBP WITHOUT the retina display.Why did I do that?Because the differences between the retina display model and the regular model spec wise are the retina display (obviously), the addition of a 256GB SSD instead of the 500GB 5400RPM drive and a bump in video RAM to 1GB (MSI has 2GB, so MBP still inferior).All that for "only" $400 more. Since the MSI does not have the retina display I chose the regular MBP because it brought the prices closer together which HELPED Apple in this comparison.You, however, were to dumb to figure that out and went off rambling about meaningless junk that did nothing but make the point you were trying to make look more idiotic.Only a fan of Apple products would try to argue that cosmetic touches and functionally irrelevant physical differences are worth a 100%+ markup on price. But again, Apple users aren't generally known for their smarts, so I'm not suprised you have such a poor understanding of what performance per dollar value means.[/citation]

10/26/2012 5:32 PM
10/26/2012 7:24 PM : I mentioned I wouldn't buy the Macbook Pro Retina, it should be apparent that I have been talking about this model, considering I am talking about competitors on the PC side that only go to 1080p.

You then started your next response with the Mac Pro (DESKTOP), where you got this idea, beats me. Considering I am talking about at least 1080p models (Retina one is above) and you start quoting the old Macbook Pro non-Retina is mind boggling.

Again, I said it in my comments from my first to last I wouldn't buy it, I have a friend who is a software architect and his company provided him with one. Its nice and cool, I'm a PC guy. But there's no question, I cannot find a similar PC model as that for $1000, if I could, I'd snap it up for my wife instantly.

Whether you like it or not, design does have an impact on products. Hence why we don't see big boxed cars anymore. Why TVs and Monitors are trying to be thinner and sleeker. Same goes for laptops, mp3 players, etc.

Like I said on numerous occasions, I would not pay the apple premium for the higher res and thunderbolt, but some do. If I could get an equally spec'd and similarly designed machine for $1000, I'd buy it on the spot.
 
[citation][nom]wemakeourfuture[/nom]Considering I am talking about at least 1080p models (Retina one is above) and you start quoting the old Macbook Pro non-Retina is mind boggling.[/citation]
Not all MacBook Pro's have a retina display. He's comparing with the standard MacBook Pro.
 
Ok I feel the need to clarify a few things to the non-enterprise folks here.

Mac will never appeal to enterprise IT, not unless Apple does a 180 on it's current design. Enterprise IT is about low administrative costs via automated management. This means every facet and setting of a system needs to be configurable via automated remote tools. If a client machine has an issue that takes more then 1hr to fix, you just re-image the machine to standard baseline and log the details. Touch labor is expensive time wise and you need to lower that to the lowest possible. Doing touch labor to 1,500 clients is simply not an option. That is the single biggest reason MS Windows is used in the enterprise scale environments. The cost-per-machine is pitiful when you compare it to the amount of time (and therefor money) saved with the automated capabilities provided.

Strangely this is also the reason Linux never took off for client machines yet is used extensively in the server world. While Linux / Unix are extremely configurable each distribution / flavor takes a different mechanism which wrecks havoc any any attempt at mass standardization. Servers being what they are are allowed a greater amount of administrator time and tend to have a dedicated experienced staff (if their not outsourced entirely) for their maintenance. An experienced certified Linux technician isn't going to be satisfied being paid the wages of a typical tier 1 field technician to go around fixing Linux clients. Same with MacOS, an experienced technician isn't going to accept the relatively low wages of a tier 1 FSR (Field Service Representative), instead their going to be working server side where the complex problems arise. So the client world ends up being about who can provide the solution that is the absolute easiest to manage and requires the least amount of man hours per system per day.
 
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