Apple Planning to Make A6 Processor at TSMC

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[citation][nom]ReggieRay[/nom]Too bad we can have some chip plants in the US. Oh thats right, the leftists in the EPA would over regulate every detail of the plant (Fascism) and the politicians on the left (Democrats) would want to tax them to death. Then the blood sucking unions (more Democrats) would move in and suck it dry until it went bankrupt.Never mind, your better off overseas.[/citation]

Samsung actually has 2 massive fabs in Austin, TX.
 
"We well be destroyed by our greed and stupidity"
Someone said that, can you guys guess who? Also can you guys see how true it is starting to become? That goes for all!

I never would have thought that greed will become so extensive that someone would sue another for making a rectangle shaped phone because they made one also. Now how stupid ca someone become over money?(just an example from many others)
 
[citation][nom]ionut19[/nom]"We well be destroyed by our greed and stupidity"Someone said that, can you guys guess who? Also can you guys see how true it is starting to become? That goes for all! I never would have thought that greed will become so extensive that someone would sue another for making a rectangle shaped phone because they made one also. Now how stupid ca someone become over money?(just an example from many others)[/citation]

1. It's not as simple as "rectangle shaped phone". It's a bit more complicated than that.

2. You're brilliant and you designed something that no one else had thought of - you build a product using that design, which is wildly successful. In a few years another person comes and takes your idea without your permission and uses it to build a product that competes with yours, and because they didn't have to spend the money on R&D to make their own unique design they can sell it at a discounted price - How would you take that? Would you just brush it off knowing it's actually not legal?

3. Greed is not good, but Capitalism is what builds jobs. Samsung has plants in the US that pay US workers. Apple employs people in the US and produces a product that is making money for a US based company world wide.

4. You cannot blame Democrats for putting jobs overseas - Our quality of life is expensive, and people in China can make a product that is still expensive but it would cost us a lot more to build it here... This is what happens to all industrialized nations. It's happening in Europe, it happened in Japan (It's cheaper to build cars here, than to build them there and import, even with tariffs), it's happening in Korea - most manufacturing is moving to China and Taiwan. As China goes through it's own industrialization, this is going happen to them - God help us all =0

We have a lot of potential here (in the US) to get back on track - blame-storming isn't going to get us there. Politics aside - I like Apple - They were the underdog for years and worked hard to get where they are now - Today they are about to become Goliath means there is a David waiting in the wings with a stone...

Ok, getting off soapbox :) Thanks for taking the time to read - I'll go do code or somethin'

So if you were the first to design a "rec
 



Apple did not invent the rectangle bar touch screen phone. I just said it was stupid to sue someone for that, and that was just an example that i can remember, don't really read all these news. This is not the single law suit that has a dumb reason.

The rest about capitalism and other stuff don't come into my discussion.

Yes, if you invent anything, it should be yours to own, not others.

I wonder, what specks do these new A6 processors have? If apple would place a quad core in their new phone that would be something to brag again. Since i also heard about their patent for 3d screen more cores or let's say better graphics would be necessary. I have seen videos on LG optimus 3d and sometimes it lags in 3d.
 
@sundragon

exactly which IP are you referring to? last i recall Samsung was being sued because the galaxy phone looks similar to an iPhone (and if your classify looks as IP then i guess the conversation ends there), maybe it's those square icons but it sure as heck weren't the damn A6 chips because thats not even apple's to begin with, it's ARM of which Samsung shares a collective IP with because they manufacture the wafers for a variety of ARM licensees
 
[citation][nom]WhichIPisThat[/nom]@sundragonexactly which IP are you referring to? last i recall Samsung was being sued because the galaxy phone looks similar to an iPhone (and if your classify looks as IP then i guess the conversation ends there), maybe it's those square icons but it sure as heck weren't the damn A6 chips because thats not even apple's to begin with, it's ARM of which Samsung shares a collective IP with because they manufacture the wafers for a variety of ARM licensees[/citation]

Here's a link to the article - they copied everything down to the location of the phone button, icon, and color. The same goes for quite a bit of the interface. You can look up the legalese (warning it's not a light read) online elsewhere - but it's more than "A rectangular phone".

You mention the A6 chip:

The A5 chip is so far a better implementation of the ARM A9 core because of the better embedded PowerVR SGX543MP2 GPU - look up the iPad's performance compared to current Android tablets that use the Tegra2 chipset and you'll see the benchmarks. Even when the competing chips over-clock they can't compete in games and 3D because of their less sophisticated GPU.

The A6 will be competing with Tegra3 and upcoming TI OMAP chips that will be used in Samsung's Android offerings. Giving them the specs ahead of time to develop the A6 chip would be like Ford handing GM the specs for their newest and greatest engine a year or two before it launches...

So, in this competitive world - would you hand your IP to a competitor that has already copied you or not? There are millions of dollars at stake, it's your millions invested in R&D and your business on the line, what would you do?
 
Interesting read, I can't afford to buy Apple products so not that relevant to me unless the dollar crashes with the current temper tantra of the political parties in the States.....
 
I'm laughing at the idea of Apple wanting to compete with Samsung. It's ... Samsung, their like LG and Sony, a mega corporation.

Guys, unless you live / work in South Korea (I do) then you can't imagine how big and powerful Samsung and the other Chaebol are. Chaebol is a Korean word that is used to describe mega rich family's, think Kennedy / Rockefeller type rich / connected. The CEO / CFO / VP and all the division heads are all members of a single Korean family. Their eldest son's are groomed to replace them when they retire. They usually have connections to organizes crime elements. The South Korean government tends to give them large amounts of legal leeway in order to foster good business relationships, and to keep the business "in Korea".

Example of things Samsung makes,
Notebooks, PC's, phones, GPSs, Cars, Department Stores, Office Buildings, Apartment Buildings, Bridges, Construction Equipment, Semiconductor equipment, house appliances, Military equipment, and they provide various insurance's (life / car / home / ect..), financial services, banking, and legal services. And basically anything imaginable. They also fund cloning research and various other non-commercial research studies. In the USA we only think of Samsung as their phones and computing devices but the are so much larger.

And it gets worse, many smaller companies are owned and operated by in-law's and other members of the Chaebol family's.
 
[citation][nom]WhichIPisThat[/nom]@sundragonexactly which IP are you referring to? last i recall Samsung was being sued because the galaxy phone looks similar to an iPhone (and if your classify looks as IP then i guess the conversation ends there), maybe it's those square icons but it sure as heck weren't the damn A6 chips because thats not even apple's to begin with, it's ARM of which Samsung shares a collective IP with because they manufacture the wafers for a variety of ARM licensees[/citation]

I forgot to write this last night - You make a good point Samsung manufactures custom chips that us the ARM IP for other companies not just Apple.

The ARM 9 core is only part of the equation - it's the entire system on the chip that is custom to Apple but the A5 chip is a better system on chip than the Tegra 2 - which Samsung uses. I'll back that up with an example

So, why would you hand over your specialized IP to a company that will compete with you and has already produced a product that has? The other option is to have TSMC build the chip and not worry... Knowing this I don't understand why people even question this move?
 
@sundragon

what the hell are you trying to insinuate here, that Samsung is lifting the the exact SoC for the A6 and giving it to nVidia to reverse engineer a solution for them???? maybe you need to talk to the apple lawyers then cause you sure as hell know more then them

i am familiar with the law suit and it is purely based upon "it looks alot like our phone", looks being the key word here, at no point does it mention infringement of technology (last i checked looks does not a technology make), as you said right down to where the placement of the button, but i sure as heck dont think apple invested that much R&D into making it 'look' nice, they may have paid some designer top bucks to make it look swish but that hardly R&D and if you can claim IP over looks then i think bridgestone would like other folks to stop making round wheels (and i can happily point out a square phone with a button in the middle is a derived form for the maximization of space and functionality, ive conducted a good many design studies and nearly all of them point to a square/rectangle box being the best form for space optimization, just as a round shape is the derived functionality of a wheel), Heck you might want to look at the LG prada which was unveil 1 year before the iPhone if i recall, bares a passing resemblance to the iPhone no

and for god sake packaging a decent GPU into a SoC with an ARM core is not all that special, it's more of an integration issue rather than a design issue, and i bet VR are more then happy to say yes if Samsung approached and ask can they use their GPU too, in reality Apple holds no IP in relation to any of these, Apple a long time ago cut off their hardware division, they are a purely software, packaging and FAL (final assembly line) with very limited hardware interaction

just for the record ARM has a very ungodly cross licensing deal which in short concludes that IP is shared amongst ARMs fabricators and developers alike, it basically allows ARM to utilize any technology that arises from the application of their technology

as for having your competition have access to your hardware, i think Apple better get used to it, cause their is only a handful of screen Fabs out there too, (major ones being LG and Sony, who coincidentally makes phones too......) if they truly dont like that idea then they better start building their own Fabs
 
[citation][nom]ResultOfOusourcing[/nom]@sundragonwhat the hell are you trying to insinuate here, that Samsung is lifting the the exact SoC for the A6 and giving it to nVidia to reverse engineer a solution for them???? maybe you need to talk to the apple lawyers then cause you sure as hell know more then themi am familiar with the law suit and it is purely based upon "it looks alot like our phone", looks being the key word here, at no point does it mention infringement of technology (last i checked looks does not a technology make), as you said right down to where the placement of the button, but i sure as heck dont think apple invested that much R&D into making it 'look' nice, they may have paid some designer top bucks to make it look swish but that hardly R&D and if you can claim IP over looks then i think bridgestone would like other folks to stop making round wheels (and i can happily point out a square phone with a button in the middle is a derived form for the maximization of space and functionality, ive conducted a good many design studies and nearly all of them point to a square/rectangle box being the best form for space optimization, just as a round shape is the derived functionality of a wheel), Heck you might want to look at the LG prada which was unveil 1 year before the iPhone if i recall, bares a passing resemblance to the iPhone noand for god sake packaging a decent GPU into a SoC with an ARM core is not all that special, it's more of an integration issue rather than a design issue, and i bet VR are more then happy to say yes if Samsung approached and ask can they use their GPU too, in reality Apple holds no IP in relation to any of these, Apple a long time ago cut off their hardware division, they are a purely software, packaging and FAL (final assembly line) with very limited hardware interactionjust for the record ARM has a very ungodly cross licensing deal which in short concludes that IP is shared amongst ARMs fabricators and developers alike, it basically allows ARM to utilize any technology that arises from the application of their technologyas for having your competition have access to your hardware, i think Apple better get used to it, cause their is only a handful of screen Fabs out there too, (major ones being LG and Sony, who coincidentally makes phones too......) if they truly dont like that idea then they better start building their own Fabs[/citation]

1. "and for god sake packaging a decent GPU into a SoC with an ARM core is not all that special": If it's not that special, then why did Nvidia do fail at building a competing product (Tegra 2) that just about every Tablet manufacturer uses?

2. Samsung is large enough to do build their own version of the SOC and not go with Nvidia's upcoming Tegra 3 or TI's next OMAP. If you were to be building a chip that would compete with Samsung's tablet/phone product, would you allow them access to your specs?

3."Apple a long time ago cut off their hardware division, they are a purely software, packaging and FAL (final assembly line) with very limited hardware interaction":

Apple purchased Intrinsity and PA Semi so they can stop producing hardware? That would make it a nearly $400M waste of money. I have a feeling those two companies are why the A5 spanks the Tegra 2 (I love Nvidia but they need to make a better go with the Tegra 3) MHZ for MHZ.

4. Finally - We can argue about the lawsuit endlessly. The point is that it's clear that Samsung has no issue taking ideas from Apple. Apple is letting Samsung know that, legally, and where it really counts - $$$$ - moving a very lucrative chip production to TSMC.

Love Samsung - Hate Apple: The future's going to tell if they did the right thing - M$ used to get this much hate, now they got their sh*t together and produced Windows 7 and everyone loves them. Apple will probably have to go through a point where their products piss off enough people and get the idea...
 
@sundragon

Quality of delivery is rather irrelevant, the fact that they can package a GPU into a SoC is whats the key here, are you suggesting to me that Apple somehow tweaked and re-engineered the VR core to do anything beyond that which VR designed it to do, what specs are you speaking of, the one that VR licenses out or the one that ARM licenses out? Tegra 2 apparent failings are not because it cant integrate a GPU into a SoC but rather because it choose a poor GPU core to integrate (see i said integrate and not design) and it's not like we going see nVidia license out AMD or VR gfx cores

yes Samsung can choose not to go with nVidia and nothing stops them going with VR, even if they werent making A6 for Apple do you think that is what is stopping them integrating VR with an ARM core? Samsung probably used nVidia because they are a big name in the gfx industry and VR was a lagging has been, probably a mistake in the short term, but long term nVidia has significantly more cash to throw at R&D then VR and will eventually make a better low power gfx core

IMHO Apple going back into the hardware field is a big mistake, they do not have the research budget of either ARM or Intel, heck i be surprised if they even have the research budget of nVidia, as much hype as the powerPC chip was, it was evident how far it lagged behind Intels offering when Apple moved over to Intel and suddenly Macs felt faster. It is my humble opinion Apples acquisition of these two are more about control then superior technology, Apple is still primarily a software firm because we all know the iPhone would be a dud without the iTunes eco system

and you still have yet to tell me which of Apple's amazing ideas Samsung poached, cause right now the law suit only says the rectangle shaped phone with the button in the middle and the grid of rounded of square icons (now read that out slowly and tell me that just dont sound stupid), if you going call Samsung a thief over that than i think LG would like a say in that too (remember the Prada) there is a big difference between arriving at the same form factor and stealing IP from another company

and i find it amusing that anyone would think a move over to TSMC a good thing, they have a track record of poor yields and couldn't even get 32mn correct the first time around, this has absolutely nothing to do with Samsung stealing IP and more about Apple trying to get their own way (seriously they are throwing a tantrum cause the damn thing looks like their phone)

i dont hate Apple with the same kind of seething want to see them destroyed utterly way as some on this site, but i do find it somewhat pointless to move from a proven and very good ARM fabricators because you want their phones to look a lot less like yours (which is what this all boils down to)
 
as for having your competition have access to your hardware, i think Apple better get used to it, cause their is only a handful of screen Fabs out there too, (major ones being LG and Sony, who coincidentally makes phones too......) if they truly dont like that idea then they better start building their own Fabs
Click to expand...

Sony use's Samsung screens and just repackages them.

The worlds two largest LCD manufactures are LG and Samsung, both Korean companies. And both Chaebol.
 
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