News Apple Unleashes New Mac Pro at WWDC

[guanyu210379]

Seeing 1000 bucks for the stand and 200 bucks for the VESA adapter, this shows how stupid Apple users could be, if they really bought it.

 

[hftvhftv]

The Vega Pro II graphics cards have Thunderbold 3 connectors on them.


Eh, I'm sure you can find one that does. Apparently, that board only goes up to 205 W, while the W-3175X is rated at 255 W.

However, only those opting for the max configuration of the Mac Pro are even using that capability. The point of my exercise was to show how overpriced even their base config was.


Not sure what's your point, here. Just get an EATX case that fits a normal PSU and find a good 1.4 kW model that you like. Why do you assume server PSU?

You can't buy the Vega Pro II card, and even though they do have Thunderbolt 3 connectors on them, you need the special MPX connector to use Thunderbolt 3.

The whole point of you putting together to find a parts list was to find an equivalent.

Find me a 1.4Kw model then, I'd assume you'd pick out a sub $100 server PSU that doesn't work with the ATX standard that sounds like a hair dryer.

 

[bit_user]

You can't buy the Vega Pro II card, and even though they do have Thunderbolt 3 connectors on them, you need the special MPX connector to use Thunderbolt 3.

Well, Vega Pro II was just announced, so I don't read into the fact that you don't see it elsewhere. You know the new Mac Pro isn't even shipping yet, right?

What is a "special MPX connector"?

To be honest, I think Thunderbolt 3 is an Apple/Intel gimmick. Cables longer than 0.5 meters need to be "active", which sounds to me like just another chance for Apple to sell people more stuff at eye-watering prices.

DisplayPort 1.4 can already do 4k @ 120 Hz or 5k @ 60 Hz, which is still well above what most people use. The next version is already planned to go well beyond Thurderbolt 3.

HDMI 2.1 can already do 8k @ 120 Hz, which even Thunderbolt 3 cannot touch.

IMO, the only people who care about Thunderbolt are Mac heads, who will just buy the Mac Pro, no matter what. It's just like FireWire - Apple had it and nobody else cared.

The whole point of you putting together to find a parts list was to find an equivalent.

My point was to show anyone who doesn't already know, just how shamelessly Apple overprices their stuff. I never promised 1:1 equivalence, because the Apple system is a custom job and they can certainly put in small tweaks. But, if you buy the Mac Pro, then you're paying a > 2x markup for only small tweaks you probably don't need... and for Mac OS. And, like I said, most people who will buy Mac Pros will do so specifically because of the OS. They might like to feel that the hardware is special, but the reality is that they would buy it anyway.

For anyone who really has a choice, it's like if you want a fast car that handles well, you could get a Corvette and be done with it. But some people just want the special feeling of driving a Ferrari and are willing to pay for it.

However, unlike cars, most people will never see your computer. Maybe you have clients visit your offices where you have them, but they could also read that as a sign of just how much your firm is about to overcharge them. It's a bit like using an accountant or a lawyer who drives a Ferrari - their services might be among the best, but they certainly won't be cheap.

Find me a 1.4Kw model then, I'd assume you'd pick out a sub $100 server PSU that doesn't work with the ATX standard that sounds like a hair dryer.

Why do you need 1.4 kW? That's way overkill, for the base config. However, if think Apple is the only option for a quite PSU in that territory, this review of the Asus ROG Thor 1200W PSU would seem to dispute that:

the ROG Thor 1200W has a very strong weapon in its arsenal: dead silent operation. With a LAMBDA-A+ certification by Cybenetics, this unit is the quietest 1200W PSU that money can get you today. Making such a strong PSU so quiet is no easy feat. Asus had to ask for several modifications in the original Seasonic Prime Platinum platform, including larger heat sinks, which lower air flow demands.

Source: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/asus-rog-thor-1200w-psu,5984-6.html

Currently $300, at Newegg: https://www.newegg.com/asus-rog-thor-1200p-1200w/p/N82E16817320003

But the a thing about PSUs is that they tend to be noisy only as you near peak utilization. So, you could go with a more powerful & noisier option that will be well-mannered unless/until you're really pushing the system.

 

[hftvhftv]

Well, Vega Pro II was just announced, so I don't read into the fact that you don't see it elsewhere. You know the new Mac Pro isn't even shipping yet, right?

What is a "special MPX connector"?

I don't think it's worth arguing with someone who didn't even read the full specifications of the product, nor understands that Thunderbolt 3 carries a Displayport signal. Here's a link to a Dell Precision workstation with similar specs to the new Mac Pro, notice how it's $7402, I'll call this argument case closed for now.

 

[bit_user]

I don't think it's worth arguing with someone who didn't even read the full specifications of the product,

I read enough to match specs on the core components. That's all I needed, to achieve my objective.

If you're unwilling to accept anything less than a virtually 1:1 replica, then you're basically saying that you want the Apple at any cost. I think my sports car analogy is very apt, here.

That's great, if you have money to burn. However, most of us do not. And the reality is that the vast majority of users don't actually need every single one of those features in the Mac Pro. So, it's entirely legit to consider what premium you'd actually be paying, for them.

nor understands that Thunderbolt 3 carries a Displayport signal.

I'm sorry, but what is you point?

I was posing DisplayPort 1.4 as a viable alternative to Thunderbolt 3. I'm pretty sure you just backed me up, on that. So, thanks... I guess.

Here's a link to a Dell Precision workstation with similar specs to the new Mac Pro, notice how it's $7402,

I didn't click the link, because it's irrelevant to my point. Assuming you're right, it makes no difference if you can find somebody else who's also overpricing their hardware.

FWIW, I have never bought a Dell, nor recommended one. My employer buys them, but they're a big enough customer that they can probably negotiate prices much closer to what they ought to cost.

I'll call this argument case closed for now.

Call it what you want. I let my points stand on their merits.

To be honest, I'm a little curious what you're even doing, here. Not that you don't have a right, but I'm puzzled why you would hang out on a forum principally concerned with DIY PC hardware, if you're apparently such an Apple fan. You'll hardly find anyone here that would try to argue Apple's hardware prices are justifiable. Why even bother, especially if the only way you can "win" these arguments is by setting impossible standards, rather than trying to look at it rationally?

 

[bit_user]

I don't think it's worth arguing with someone who didn't even read the full specifications of the product,

Okay, now I see. I had skipped the part about the Vega Pro II, since I already read the article about it, on this site. However, that article only specified power delivery through what Apple calls the "MPX Connector" (but the article didn't call it that).

So, if you tell me I can only connect non-display peripherals via the Thunderbolt connectors on a Vega Pro II if it's in a Power Mac, I'm cool with that. See, the thing is that the PCIe lanes used to provide that Thunderbolt 3 connectivity don't just come from nowhere. They come from the CPU's limited PCIe budget (these can't be chipset-based, since it's x8 and the CPU -> chipset connection is only x4). More likely, the motherboard actually has a PLX. Now, a PLX is all well and good, if you actually need that many lanes. But they add latency, power, and, of course, cost. And, depending on how they're connected to the CPU, you might still encounter bottlenecks.

So, when you read about all the Power Mac's PCIe slots and Thunderbolt lanes, first consider that you can't use all of them at once. Second, there's no free lunch, here. And third, one can certainly get PC motherboards and expansion cards that have them.

https://www.newegg.com/p/17Z-0037-00007