Question Are all Pure Sine Wave UPS the same ?

[zgzdgz]

Hello there, are all sine-wave ups the same ? Cause I thought so too, til I saw "5%-/+ distortion, power factor 0.60~" on its labels and started to wonder if that will affect the electronic devices in any way. Is it very important to get UPS that has replaceable batteries ? I have 1000W rmx corsair PSU and I don't think that my usage will ever exceed to 900W~ during heavy use ( Including 59W monitor), so will 900W UPS will suffice ? I am afraid that getting a reliable UPS becomes more and more the necessity, since every work is being done remotely.

5900x
4070
B550M Pro-Vdh
2 Sata HDDs
2 Nvme SSDs
RMx1000
2x 3600mHz vengeance 16GB
UR59C Samsung
Wifi/Bluetooth PCIE card
Currently connected devices - > Mouse + Keyboard + Prism Cloth +2 Headphones + Web cam + 2 USB HUBS .

 

[Aeacus]

Hello there, are all sine-wave ups the same ?

Overall: No.

There are 2 types of sine wave:
1. simulated sine wave (aka stepped-approximated sine wave)
2. true/pure sine wave

So, depending on which it is, it differs vastly.

so will 900W UPS will suffice ?

Completely depends if it is simulated sine wave or true/pure sine wave UPS.

Link the UPS specs, so i can check it out.
But overall, 900W (~1500VA) UPS should suffice for your build.

 

[zgzdgz]

Overall: No.

There are 2 types of sine wave:
1. simulated sine wave (aka stepped-approximated sine wave)
2. true/pure sine wave

So, depending on which it is, it differs vastly.


Completely depends if it is simulated sine wave or true/pure sine wave UPS.

Link the UPS specs, so i can check it out.
But overall, 900W (~1500VA) UPS should suffice for your build.

Yeah but still, even the if UPS say that it's pure sine-wave, I should just take their word for it ?
Here's from Gembird I think - > https://gembird.com/item.aspx?id=8737
Here's from PowerWalker I think - > https://powerwalker.com/product/10121119/ ,
https://powerwalker.com/product/10121136/
Also one more from Cyber Power, it's weird though, but still ->

OLS1000EA-DE - Smart App UPS for Network and Server | CyberPower

CyberPower OLS1000EA-DE is a high-performance UPS featuring online double-conversion topology, which provides seamless Pure Sine Wave power for mission-critical devices such as NAS and servers, DVRs/surveillance systems, transportation and infrastructure, and emergency systems. It’s typically...

www.cyberpower.com

I've checked APC and Cyber Power, and currently the APC with 900W and sine-wave ~ costs around 500~, so it's way over the line.

 

[Aeacus]

Yeah but still, even the if UPS say that it's pure sine-wave, I should just take their word for it ?
Here's from Gembird I think - > https://gembird.com/item.aspx?id=8737
Here's from PowerWalker I think - > https://powerwalker.com/product/10121119/ , https://powerwalker.com/product/10121136/
I've checked APC and Cyber Power, and currently the APC with 900W and sine-wave ~ costs around 500~, so it's way over the line.

That Gembird unit is way too beefy for your setup. That's 3000VA/2400W unit. Most likely also costs a fortune as well. If it doesn't, i'd avoid it.

I have no reason to think that this Gembird UPS isn't true/pure sine wave UPS. But from it's specs i can read that while it may output true/pure sine wave, it's build quality is low. This is especially evident of the 10ms transfer time it needs.

Proper line-interactive UPSes do not take that long to transfer from main to battery power. 10ms transfer time is more akin to stand-by topology, rather than line-interactive topology.

PowerWalker unit has the transfer time a bit better, typically 6ms but it also has max transfer time 10ms. So, i would not look towards that one either, despite it also being true/pure sine wave and line-interactive topology.

For comparison, here's the specs of my UPS: CyberPower PFC Sinewave CP1300EPFCLCD (1300VA/780W, true/pure sine wave, line-interactive);
specs: https://www.cyberpower.com/hk/en/product/sku/CP1300EPFCLCD#specification
(I have 2 of these in use actually.)

As you can see, proper (good quality) UPS has the transfer time of 4ms, which is expected of line-interactive topology.

Gembird unit also has way too high frequency regulation tolerance on battery power +/-10%, which is A LOT. PowerWalker and my CyberPower UPSes have the frequency regulation on battery power +/-1%.

I am afraid that getting a reliable UPS becomes more and more the necessity, since every work is being done remotely.

If you want reliable, then look towards: APC, CyberPower and TrippLite. There are other, lesser ones as well, like the Gembird and PowerWalker you presented.

Based on the specs of Gembird and PowerWalker UPSes, i can see that they are built with lower quality. Thus, i wouldn't trust their UPSes to be reliable and/or long lasting.

I've checked APC and Cyber Power, and currently the APC with 900W and sine-wave ~ costs around 500~, so it's way over the line.

It seems that you've greatly underestimated the cost of a proper UPS. Since UPS'es job is to keep your PC running when there's blackout by supplying good and stable electricity to your PC, they also cost a lot of money.
For example, i payed €230 Euros for one of my CyberPower CP1300EPFCLCD (1300VA/ 780W) UPS, 6 years ago. Since your PC is expensive, it's not easily replaced. Like it or not, if you want the protection, it's not going to be cheap. Though, if you want cheap and good UPS, you need to buy 2x UPSes; the cheap one and the good one.

Or in other words: if you pay peanuts - you will get monkeys.

Is it very important to get UPS that has replaceable batteries ?

Well, it adds to the lifespan of the UPS.

Battery inside the UPS lasts for ~3 years or so. So, when you can not replace the battery in it, you have to buy a whole new unit. But when UPS has user replaceable battery in it (e.g my CyberPower UPS does have that feature), then you can only replace the internal battery in it, while keeping the rest of the unit (inverter, AVR, ECU and outside housing). It is cheaper to buy new battery every ~3 years, than replacing the entire unit.


Edit:
I suggest that you look towards CyberPower New PFC Sinewave series (successor of my PFC Sinewave series);
specs: https://www.cyberpower.com/eu/en/product/series/pfc_sinewave_gen._2#models

This "New PFC Sinewave" is actually what i'm planning to get, to replace my aging UPSes out. Though, my UPSes actually work fine but in an event they should die (mine are already 6 years old), i've done my research in advance, to know what to get as a replacement.

 

[zgzdgz]

That Gembird unit is way too beefy for your setup. That's 3000VA/2400W unit. Most likely also costs a fortune as well. If it doesn't, i'd avoid it.

I have no reason to think that this Gembird UPS isn't true/pure sine wave UPS. But from it's specs i can read that while it may output true/pure sine wave, it's build quality is low. This is especially evident of the 10ms transfer time it needs.

Proper line-interactive UPSes do not take that long to transfer from main to battery power. 10ms transfer time is more akin to stand-by topology, rather than line-interactive topology.

PowerWalker unit has the transfer time a bit better, typically 6ms but it also has max transfer time 10ms. So, i would not look towards that one either, despite it also being true/pure sine wave and line-interactive topology.

For comparison, here's the specs of my UPS: CyberPower PFC Sinewave CP1300EPFCLCD (1300VA/780W, true/pure sine wave, line-interactive);
specs: https://www.cyberpower.com/hk/en/product/sku/CP1300EPFCLCD#specification
(I have 2 of these in use actually.)

As you can see, proper (good quality) UPS has the transfer time of 4ms, which is expected of line-interactive topology.

Gembird unit also has way too high frequency regulation tolerance on battery power +/-10%, which is A LOT. PowerWalker and my CyberPower UPSes have the frequency regulation on battery power +/-1%.


If you want reliable, then look towards: APC, CyberPower and TrippLite. There are other, lesser ones as well, like the Gembird and PowerWalker you presented.

Based on the specs of Gembird and PowerWalker UPSes, i can see that they are built with lower quality. Thus, i wouldn't trust their UPSes to be reliable and/or long lasting.


It seems that you've greatly underestimated the cost of a proper UPS. Since UPS'es job is to keep your PC running when there's blackout by supplying good and stable electricity to your PC, they also cost a lot of money.
For example, i payed €230 Euros for one of my CyberPower CP1300EPFCLCD (1300VA/ 780W) UPS, 6 years ago. Since your PC is expensive, it's not easily replaced. Like it or not, if you want the protection, it's not going to be cheap. Though, if you want cheap and good UPS, you need to buy 2x UPSes; the cheap one and the good one.

Or in other words: if you pay peanuts - you will get monkeys.


Well, it adds to the lifespan of the UPS.

Battery inside the UPS lasts for ~3 years or so. So, when you can not replace the battery in it, you have to buy a whole new unit. But when UPS has user replaceable battery in it (e.g my CyberPower UPS does have that feature), then you can only replace the internal battery in it, while keeping the rest of the unit (inverter, AVR, ECU and outside housing). It is cheaper to buy new battery every ~3 years, than replacing the entire unit.


Edit:
I suggest that you look towards CyberPower New PFC Sinewave series (successor of my PFC Sinewave series);
specs: https://www.cyberpower.com/eu/en/product/series/pfc_sinewave_gen._2#models

This "New PFC Sinewave" is actually what i'm planning to get, to replace my aging UPSes out. Though, my UPSes actually work fine but in an event they should die (mine are already 6 years old), i've done my research in advance, to know what to get as a replacement.

Aha, So I was right, it was too damn Good to be true to get the powerwalker or the gembird, even though they both claim have to have the "pure sine-wave" output, thank you kindly for clarifying that ! Have you checked this one too ->https://www.cyberpower.com/de/en/product/sku/ols1000ea-de ? It looked pretty decent to me, and it's quite reasonable to get it for the current price, though, I don't really know what to think of it when it comes to use towards the PC.
Nah It's all good, I just meant, that particular APC model of 900W and the sinewave jumped from 385~ to 500~ or something, so there is only one shop that has it, so maybe, I don't know, try cyber power instead ?

 

[Aeacus]

Have you checked this one too ->https://www.cyberpower.com/de/en/product/sku/ols1000ea-de ? It looked pretty decent to me, though, I don't really know what to think of it when it comes to use towards the PC.

Oh wow, that is online, double-conversion UPS. It is actually better than the line-interactive topology UPS that i'm using. But since it also costs more, i didn't have money to buy online, double-conversion UPS (+ the maintenance cost of owning one). While online, delta-conversion UPS is the best topology there is (at least at current date).
Also, in my opinion, every PC should have an UPS.


More in-depth about UPSes;

UPSes can output 3 different kinds of waveform:
1. square wave - cheapest of the three. ONLY good for robust hardware, like power generators and motors.
2. simulated sine wave (aka stepped-approximated sine wave) - mediocre price. Good for most home appliances (e.g fridge, washing machine, lights).
3. true/pure sine wave - high price. It is the same as you get out of the wall socket. ONLY waveform good for sensitive electronics, like medical equipment, TVs, PC PSUs.

So, you want to have true/pure sine wave UPS. Simulated sine wave UPS may also work, but it may not. More of that below;


When looking for an UPS, there are 2 things to look out:
1. Output waveform (square wave, simulated sine wave and true/pure sine wave)
2. Design (stand-by, line-interactive and online)

From here you can read about the differences between output waveform,
link: https://suvastika.com/why-choose-a-sinewave-inverter-ups/

And here are explanations about the UPS design,
link: https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1272971

Waveform and design
For PCs, line-interactive UPS would be more than enough since PSUs can easily handle the 2ms to 5ms transfer time of line-interactive UPS.
As far as output waveform goes, true/pure sine wave UPS is best used. While simulated sine wave UPSes are cheaper than true/pure sine wave UPSes, PSUs with Active PFC aren't compatible with simulated sine wave. You might get simulated sine wave UPS running with Active PFC PSU but there can be some major issues. Here's what, how and why.

How do you know which PSUs have Active PFC and which ones don't?
Simple, every PSU that has 80+ certification (e.g 80+ Bronze or 80+ Gold) has Active PFC.

What is Active PFC?
Further reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor#Power_factor_correction_(PFC)_in_non-linear_loads

What can happen when using simulated sine wave UPS with Active PFC PSU?
When simulated sine wave UPS switches over to the battery power, one of 3 things can happen:
1. UPS displays error resulting PC to shut down immediately.
2. UPS shuts down resulting PC to shut down immediately.
3. UPS switches to battery power resulting PC to power off from UPS (PC stays on).

Why it happens?
Simulated sine wave UPS produces a zero output state during the phase change cycle resulting in a power “gap”. This gap may cause power interruption for active PFC PSUs when switching from AC power output to simulated sine wave output (battery mode).

What to do next?
As stated above, your PC can run off from simulated sine wave UPS but be prepared when you face issues with it. When issues do rise, your best bet would be returning the simulated sine wave UPS and getting true/pure sine wave UPS. Or you can go with true/pure sine wave UPS off the bat.

Wattage
As far as UPS wattage goes, you need to consider the power draw of your PC and monitors. Maybe speakers and wi-fi router too if you plan to plug those into the UPS as well. Though, printers, scanners and other such hardware (full list on your UPS manual) don't plug to the UPS since their startup power draw is way too much for UPS to handle and you can fry your UPS.

Taking PSU's max wattage as a baseline is good idea since it will give your UPS more headroom and you can get longer runtime out of your UPS. Since your PSU is 1000W, at least one monitor is added on top of it. As you said, your monitor uses 59W. Wi-fi routers don't consume much power. For example, my Cisco EPC3940L consumes 12V at 3A which means 36W.

Now, you don't have to get 1000W or 1100W UPS. Your build does fine with 800W or 900W UPS as well.
But the more powerful UPS you have, the longer UPS can keep your PC running before it's battery is empty.


A bit more about online (double- or delta-conversion) UPSes;

Online UPSes work on the principle that power is always taken directly from the battery (0 transfer time) and inverter is charging the battery at the same time. Now, if there is failure within the battery, it switches to the main power, directly from the wall. Online topology works vice-versa to the line-interactive topology.

Pros of online topology:
* 0 transfer time
* true/pure sine wave
* no downtime at all

Cons of online topology:
* battery will wear out fast
* only authorized service can replace batteries

Online topology is commonly used in server parks, where UPSes have multiple replaceable batteries. So, when one of the batteries dies, it is replaced without cutting the power to the servers at all. However, online UPSes doesn't have user replaceable batteries, only authorized service can replace their batteries, doing it on-site.

So, when you're home user, better to look towards line-interactive topology (e.g CyberPower New PFC Sinewave series i linked above), where you can power down your system and replace the battery when needed. It's also cheaper than online topology UPS.
But when you have a business, where PC downtime is not acceptable, online topology would suit better. But this means that to replace the battery, you have to order proper technician on-site, who then does the battery replacement (while the PC remains powered at all times).

 

[zgzdgz]

Oh wow, that is online, double-conversion UPS. It is actually better than the line-interactive topology UPS that i'm using. But since it also costs more, i didn't have money to buy online, double-conversion UPS (+ the maintenance cost of owning one). While online, delta-conversion UPS is the best topology there is (at least at current date).
Also, in my opinion, every PC should have an UPS.


More in-depth about UPSes;

UPSes can output 3 different kinds of waveform:
1. square wave - cheapest of the three. ONLY good for robust hardware, like power generators and motors.
2. simulated sine wave (aka stepped-approximated sine wave) - mediocre price. Good for most home appliances (e.g fridge, washing machine, lights).
3. true/pure sine wave - high price. It is the same as you get out of the wall socket. ONLY waveform good for sensitive electronics, like medical equipment, TVs, PC PSUs.

So, you want to have true/pure sine wave UPS. Simulated sine wave UPS may also work, but it may not. More of that below;


When looking for an UPS, there are 2 things to look out:
1. Output waveform (square wave, simulated sine wave and true/pure sine wave)
2. Design (stand-by, line-interactive and online)

From here you can read about the differences between output waveform,
link: https://suvastika.com/why-choose-a-sinewave-inverter-ups/

And here are explanations about the UPS design,
link: https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1272971

Waveform and design
For PCs, line-interactive UPS would be more than enough since PSUs can easily handle the 2ms to 5ms transfer time of line-interactive UPS.
As far as output waveform goes, true/pure sine wave UPS is best used. While simulated sine wave UPSes are cheaper than true/pure sine wave UPSes, PSUs with Active PFC aren't compatible with simulated sine wave. You might get simulated sine wave UPS running with Active PFC PSU but there can be some major issues. Here's what, how and why.

How do you know which PSUs have Active PFC and which ones don't?
Simple, every PSU that has 80+ certification (e.g 80+ Bronze or 80+ Gold) has Active PFC.

What is Active PFC?
Further reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor#Power_factor_correction_(PFC)_in_non-linear_loads

What can happen when using simulated sine wave UPS with Active PFC PSU?
When simulated sine wave UPS switches over to the battery power, one of 3 things can happen:
1. UPS displays error resulting PC to shut down immediately.
2. UPS shuts down resulting PC to shut down immediately.
3. UPS switches to battery power resulting PC to power off from UPS (PC stays on).

Why it happens?
Simulated sine wave UPS produces a zero output state during the phase change cycle resulting in a power “gap”. This gap may cause power interruption for active PFC PSUs when switching from AC power output to simulated sine wave output (battery mode).

What to do next?
As stated above, your PC can run off from simulated sine wave UPS but be prepared when you face issues with it. When issues do rise, your best bet would be returning the simulated sine wave UPS and getting true/pure sine wave UPS. Or you can go with true/pure sine wave UPS off the bat.

Wattage
As far as UPS wattage goes, you need to consider the power draw of your PC and monitors. Maybe speakers and wi-fi router too if you plan to plug those into the UPS as well. Though, printers, scanners and other such hardware (full list on your UPS manual) don't plug to the UPS since their startup power draw is way too much for UPS to handle and you can fry your UPS.

Taking PSU's max wattage as a baseline is good idea since it will give your UPS more headroom and you can get longer runtime out of your UPS. Since your PSU is 1000W, at least one monitor is added on top of it. As you said, your monitor uses 59W. Wi-fi routers don't consume much power. For example, my Cisco EPC3940L consumes 12V at 3A which means 36W.

Now, you don't have to get 1000W or 1100W UPS. Your build does fine with 800W or 900W UPS as well.
But the more powerful UPS you have, the longer UPS can keep your PC running before it's battery is empty.


A bit more about online (double- or delta-conversion) UPSes;

Online UPSes work on the principle that power is always taken directly from the battery (0 transfer time) and inverter is charging the battery at the same time. Now, if there is failure within the battery, it switches to the main power, directly from the wall. Online topology works vice-versa to the line-interactive topology.

Pros of online topology:
* 0 transfer time
* true/pure sine wave
* no downtime at all

Cons of online topology:
* battery will wear out fast
* only authorized service can replace batteries

Online topology is commonly used in server parks, where UPSes have multiple replaceable batteries. So, when one of the batteries dies, it is replaced without cutting the power to the servers at all. However, online UPSes doesn't have user replaceable batteries, only authorized service can replace their batteries, doing it on-site.

So, when you're home user, better to look towards line-interactive topology (e.g CyberPower New PFC Sinewave series i linked above), where you can power down your system and replace the battery when needed. It's also cheaper than online topology UPS.
But when you have a business, where PC downtime is not acceptable, online topology would suit better. But this means that to replace the battery, you have to order proper technician on-site, who then does the battery replacement (while the PC remains powered at all times).

To be honest, that CP Online UPS would prolly my best chance at getting any reliable UPS at all, as CF1500 (900W) is nowhere to be found, but that online ups would prolly get the job done, as I don't plan to use any external speakers, printer, or anything that I mentioned before, just the pc, peripherals and the monitor, that's all.
Also, I have like 10~ 140mm fans inside the case, does that matter much ?
The 4 Noctua NF-A15 fans ( including fans on the CPU Heatsink ) that runs at:
Input power (typical)

0,53 W
Input power (max.)

0,96 W
Input current (typical)

0,04 A
Max. input current

0,08 A

Be Quiet Silent Wings 4 Pro ( BL099 ) 7 fans run at:

Input power (W) 6 Input current (A) 0.5

6 Be Quiet fans run on Noctua Fan Hub ( ON the PUMP_HEADER), and the rest of the NF-A15 Fans runs on the Deep Cool Fan Hub ( SYS_FAN_1). Sorry if I'm being too nerdy about it, I'm just wan't to account for every watt

 

[Aeacus]

just the pc, peripherals and the monitor, that's all.
Also, I have like 10~ 140mm fans inside the case, does that matter much ?
The 4 Noctua NF-A15 fans ( including fans on the CPU Heatsink ) that runs at:
Input power (typical)

0,53 W
Input power (max.)

0,96 W
Input current (typical)

0,04 A
Max. input current

0,08 A

Be Quiet Silent Wings 4 Pro ( BL099 ) 7 fans run at:

Input power (W) 6 Input current (A) 0.5

6 Be Quiet fans run on Noctua Fan Hub ( ON the PUMP_HEADER), and the rest of the NF-A15 Fans runs on the Deep Cool Fan Hub ( SYS_FAN_1). Sorry if I'm being too nerdy about it, I'm just wan't to account for every watt

Hence why i said;

Taking PSU's max wattage as a baseline is good idea since it will give your UPS more headroom and you can get longer runtime out of your UPS.

Since your entire PC (internals) are powered by PSU, there's no need to add up individual components and their power draw.

Though, there wattmeters out there that measure PC's power draw. These are good, since they also measure the PSU's loss of efficiency as well. So, you can learn the actual wattage PC consumes from the UPS.

E.g before i bought my UPSes, i bought McLean Energy MCE06 230V/16A wattmeter;
specs: http://maclean.pl/index.php?option=...cznej-maclean-mce06&cid=7:mierniki&Itemid=110
(Note: official specs are in Polish, but you can use Google Translate to translate it into English.)

I plugged my wattmeter to the main power socket and plugged the PC into it. Then i ran synthetic benchmarks to utilize my CPU and GPU at 100%, while looking what wattmeter shows as entire power consumption of the PC.

Spoiler: Pic of my wattmeter results (click here to view)

Since i ever got ~204W peak, i knew how much my PC consumes at 100% load (which also includes PSU's efficiency loss). Then, i added the power consumption of monitor and 2.1 speakers to it as well, to know the bare minimum UPS capacity that i need.

Since my PSU is 650W unit, i took this as a baseline, for longer runtime. So, ended up going with 1300VA/ 780W UPS.
With that beefy of an UPS and relatively low power consumption of my PC (big thanks to Seasonic SSR-650TD 80+ Titanium efficiency PSU), my UPS runtime is ~30mins during blackout. Though, i ever need ~5 mins to save my work and shut down my PC during blackout.

To be honest, that CP Online UPS would prolly my best chance at getting any reliable UPS at all, as CF1500 (900W) is nowhere to be found, but that online ups would prolly get the job done

If you do not have CyberPower PFC Sinewave series available at your area, then CyberPower online, double-conversion UPS is also a good choice. Now, i can't tell how noisy it is, since it will be constantly working and in server parks, noise isn't an issue at all (since all servers are very noisy and they are kept in sound isolated rooms, away from humans).

 

[zgzdgz]

Hence why i said;

Since your entire PC (internals) are powered by PSU, there's no need to add up individual components and their power draw.

Though, there wattmeters out there that measure PC's power draw. These are good, since they also measure the PSU's loss of efficiency as well. So, you can learn the actual wattage PC consumes from the UPS.

E.g before i bought my UPSes, i bought McLean Energy MCE06 230V/16A wattmeter;
specs: http://maclean.pl/index.php?option=...cznej-maclean-mce06&cid=7:mierniki&Itemid=110
(Note: official specs are in Polish, but you can use Google Translate to translate it into English.)

I plugged my wattmeter to the main power socket and plugged the PC into it. Then i ran synthetic benchmarks to utilize my CPU and GPU at 100%, while looking what wattmeter shows as entire power consumption of the PC.

Spoiler: Pic of my wattmeter results (click here to view)

Since i ever got ~204W peak, i knew how much my PC consumes at 100% load (which also includes PSU's efficiency loss). Then, i added the power consumption of monitor and 2.1 speakers to it as well, to know the bare minimum UPS capacity that i need.

Since my PSU is 650W unit, i took this as a baseline, for longer runtime. So, ended up going with 1300VA/ 780W UPS.
With that beefy of an UPS and relatively low power consumption of my PC (big thanks to Seasonic SSR-650TD 80+ Titanium efficiency PSU), my UPS runtime is ~30mins during blackout. Though, i ever need ~5 mins to save my work and shut down my PC during blackout.


If you do not have CyberPower PFC Sinewave series available at your area, then CyberPower online, double-conversion UPS is also a good choice. Now, i can't tell how noisy it is, since it will be constantly working and in server parks, noise isn't an issue at all (since all servers are very noisy and they are kept in sound isolated rooms, away from humans).

Again, you are truly an awesome dude ! Very forthcoming, very kind and helpful tech guru, thank you kindly for all of that vital info! One more final kind of an unusual question, basically, when it comes to gas/diesel/petrol generators that can power a house with 10kW~ output ( at least it's what it says on the fuse box ), is it the same with the sinewave stuff, or it's a different kind of issue ? Because, I was actually told that cheaper generators ( less 1000eur~) most likely wont be providing "safe and clean" type of electricity to the devices and it would be just like the UPS and it's simulated/modified sine-wave kind of stuff, is that really true ? Would that be the same with the solar panels on the roof too ?

 

[Aeacus]

when it comes to gas/diesel/petrol generators that can power a house with 10kW~ output ( at least it's what it says on the fuse box ), is it the same with the sinewave stuff, or it's a different kind of issue ?

Electrical generators usually provide square wave output. Some can provide simulated sine wave as well. (Since after all, when there's no main electricity grid, you'd rather have lights on or stove powered, rather than PC, which doesn't have internet connection regardless.) Though, there are true/pure sine wave electrical generators as well but those cost a lot (just like with UPS; square wave is cheapest, then comes simulated sine wave and true/pure sine wave UPS costs the most).

A bit further reading: https://support.generac.com/s/artic...a-Pure-True-Sine-Wave-or-a-Modified-Sine-Wave

So, to know for sure, you need to read into the generator's specs to see what waveform they output.
Oh, with generators, they usually have high EMI output. So, you need EMI filtering as well.

Would that be the same with the solar panels on the roof too ?

With solar panels, you never directly use the power they output, since it varies based on the sunlight (weather conditions) and if it's a day or night. On top of that, solar panels produce DC, while household appliances (and PC's PSU) operate at AC. Instead, solar panels are used to charge batteries (big, beefy ones) and needed power is taken from batteries then. In a way, solar panels work very similar to the online topology UPS.

Though, most solar panel inverters do produce true/pure sine wave, but with all things, you have to be careful and read precisely if the solar inverter outputs true/pure sine wave or simulated sine wave.

To put it simply;
Solar panel - DC - batteries - DC - inverter + AVR - AC - household appliances (including PC PSU, which in turn, turns AC back to DC for PC components consumption).
Electrical generator - AC - EMI filter + AVR - AC - household appliances.

Simplest way for PC to operate without relying on main's power or backup power (UPS, generator), is to buy a laptop.
But if you plan to go to the route of electrical generator or solar panels, i suggest that you consult with certified electrician 1st, to find out the best solution according to your needs (and which also doesn't break your bank).

Also, do note that there are both, AC and DC generators out there (e.g solar panels are actually DC generators). And AC generators (gasoline/diesel powered), overall, fall into 2 classifications;
* those that provide constant power to the system (backup generators, e.g used during accidents/disasters by rescue personnel).
* those that are designed for appliances to be plugged directly into them (e.g used usually by farmers, to deliver electrical capability to the fields when repairs are needed to be done).

 

[zgzdgz]

Electrical generators usually provide square wave output. Some can provide simulated sine wave as well. (Since after all, when there's no main electricity grid, you'd rather have lights on or stove powered, rather than PC, which doesn't have internet connection regardless.) Though, there are true/pure sine wave electrical generators as well but those cost a lot (just like with UPS; square wave is cheapest, then comes simulated sine wave and true/pure sine wave UPS costs the most).

A bit further reading: https://support.generac.com/s/artic...a-Pure-True-Sine-Wave-or-a-Modified-Sine-Wave

So, to know for sure, you need to read into the generator's specs to see what waveform they output.
Oh, with generators, they usually have high EMI output. So, you need EMI filtering as well.


With solar panels, you never directly use the power they output, since it varies based on the sunlight (weather conditions) and if it's a day or night. On top of that, solar panels produce DC, while household appliances (and PC's PSU) operate at AC. Instead, solar panels are used to charge batteries (big, beefy ones) and needed power is taken from batteries then. In a way, solar panels work very similar to the online topology UPS.

Though, most solar panel inverters do produce true/pure sine wave, but with all things, you have to be careful and read precisely if the solar inverter outputs true/pure sine wave or simulated sine wave.

To put it simply;
Solar panel - DC - batteries - DC - inverter + AVR - AC - household appliances (including PC PSU, which in turn, turns AC back to DC for PC components consumption).
Electrical generator - AC - EMI filter + AVR - AC - household appliances.

Simplest way for PC to operate without relying on main's power or backup power (UPS, generator), is to buy a laptop.
But if you plan to go to the route of electrical generator or solar panels, i suggest that you consult with certified electrician 1st, to find out the best solution according to your needs (and which also doesn't break your bank).

Also, do note that there are both, AC and DC generators out there (e.g solar panels are actually DC generators). And AC generators (gasoline/diesel powered), overall, fall into 2 classifications;
* those that provide constant power to the system (backup generators, e.g used during accidents/disasters by rescue personnel).
* those that are designed for appliances to be plugged directly into them (e.g used usually by farmers, to deliver electrical capability to the fields when repairs are needed to be done).

Yeah that's I've figured, some high tech EMI filtering and solar inverters are needed to make sure that equipment won't fry upon powering on, noted it! By any chance you have generator or solar panels yourself ?

 

[Aeacus]

By any chance you have generator or solar panels yourself ?

No. I live in an apartment building.

But our apartment building management (which i'm also part of), did discuss putting solar panels onto the roof. Sadly, due to how the electrical system is built and used within apartments, those solar panels have little, if any, use for residents themselves. So, the idea was dismissed. Also, it would cost a lot, cementing the fact that solar panels are essentially waste of money for our use case.

Though, management did purchase gasoline powered backup generator (simulated sine wave output), where, in an event, if there's power loss in the main grid, the central heating and water distribution (including sewage) systems in our apartment complex would remain operational.

 

[zgzdgz]

No. I live in an apartment building.

But our apartment building management (which i'm also part of), did discuss putting solar panels onto the roof. Sadly, due to how the electrical system is built and used within apartments, those solar panels have little, if any, use for residents themselves. So, the idea was dismissed. Also, it would cost a lot, cementing the fact that solar panels are essentially waste of money for our use case.

Though, management did purchase gasoline powered backup generator (simulated sine wave output), where, in an event, if there's power loss in the main grid, the central heating and water distribution (including sewage) systems in our apartment complex would remain operational.

Hmm, I see. Speaking of PSU, I asked Corsair precisely if simulated or Pure sine-wave will work with their RMx PSUs, that's their answer:

https://imgur.com/a/ywNj1lY

View: https://imgur.com/a/ywNj1lY

 

[Aeacus]

Speaking of PSU, I asked Corsair precisely if simulated or Pure sine-wave will work with their RMx PSUs, that's their answer:

Yes, some PSUs can work with simulated sine wave UPS. Hence why i said:

Simulated sine wave UPS produces a zero output state during the phase change cycle resulting in a power “gap”. This gap may cause power interruption for active PFC PSUs when switching from AC power output to simulated sine wave output (battery mode).

I know that some EVGA PSUs also work fine with APC simulated sine wave UPS. But it's select models, rather than entire lineup.

Due to that, i don't actually believe Corsair rep and their claim that all Corsair PSUs work with simulated sine wave. Since that would encompass units from crap/low quality (e.g VS-, VX-, CS-series) to all the way to great quality (e.g HX-, HXi-, AX-, AXi-series).

Entire Corsair lineup has been made by several different PSU OEMs, which are: Seasonic, Flextronics, Great Wall, Channel Well Technology, HEC/Compucase and Chicony Power Technology. (E.g your RMx is made by CWT.) And i've seen that some units from those OEMs, do not work well with simulated sine wave UPS.

In the end of the day, why risk it and cheap out on UPS?
Or let's put it another way; let's say you get yourself simulated sine wave UPS and it fails to keep your RMx running due to the power gap at transfer switch. Then what? Are you contacting Corsair for them to replace your PSU? I doubt Corsair would replace the PSU. But if they even do, you'll be getting the same RMx-series as replacement, which again may not work with simulated sine wave UPS. Corsair will not reimburse you for the simulated sine wave UPS, so that you can go with true/pure sine wave UPS 2nd time around.

In the end of the day; your PC, your money and your call.

 

[zgzdgz]

Yes, some PSUs can work with simulated sine wave UPS. Hence why i said:

I know that some EVGA PSUs also work fine with APC simulated sine wave UPS. But it's select models, rather than entire lineup.

Due to that, i don't actually believe Corsair rep and their claim that all Corsair PSUs work with simulated sine wave. Since that would encompass units from crap/low quality (e.g VS-, VX-, CS-series) to all the way to great quality (e.g HX-, HXi-, AX-, AXi-series).

Entire Corsair lineup has been made by several different PSU OEMs, which are: Seasonic, Flextronics, Great Wall, Channel Well Technology, HEC/Compucase and Chicony Power Technology. (E.g your RMx is made by CWT.) And i've seen that some units from those OEMs, do not work well with simulated sine wave UPS.

In the end of the day, why risk it and cheap out on UPS?
Or let's put it another way; let's say you get yourself simulated sine wave UPS and it fails to keep your RMx running due to the power gap at transfer switch. Then what? Are you contacting Corsair for them to replace your PSU? I doubt Corsair would replace the PSU. But if they even do, you'll be getting the same RMx-series as replacement, which again may not work with simulated sine wave UPS. Corsair will not reimburse you for the simulated sine wave UPS, so that you can go with true/pure sine wave UPS 2nd time around.

In the end of the day; your PC, your money and your call.

Yeah that's what I've thought, 50/50 chance of working at all on higher end psus, but it's like dude, they are making their damn psus and they can't even guarantee on which UPSes it will work or not ? I mean I don't have time or bunch of their UPSes to try the simulated sine-wave...So it's obviously not a very good support from their side when you REALLY think about it when questions about UPS arise...
By the way, these are my primary choices, are they really different if you exclude the watt power ? (1000W vs 1320W )
BGM2200B-GR
CP1600EPFCLCD

 

[bill001g]

The main difference between a generator and a UPS is how long you are going to run on them. Most UPS you are talking about a few minutes where a generator you might run for days at a time.

Power supplies if they are too smart sometime will just shut off when they get power they consider not good enough. The more common thing to happen is they just do not run as efficiently. So they might just waste more of the power as heat or in a worst case they can no longer provide enough power for your pc.

Running a generator that is not pure sign wave increases your chance to actually damage the power supply. When the parts are dumping power into heat rather than converting tends to reduce the life of the power supply. Likely a UPS does the same thing but for most people you are likely running well less than 1hr per year on your UPS and most times it is only running for seconds on the UPS when you see the short power glitch.

What is even worse trying to plug a UPS into a cheap generator. The generator will come on and the UPS will detect the power. It will then switch all the load from battery to the generator in addition to draw even more power to start to recharge the batteries. The generator will detect this extra load and try to increase the engine speed but for a very short time the voltage and line frequencies will drop. The UPS detects this and switches back to the battery. The generator then slows down because of need for less power. You get the UPS and generator constantly switching back and forth. Better generators like most inverter/sine wave generators do not have this issue because they are less dependent on engine speed to keep the power clean.

 

[zgzdgz]

The main difference between a generator and a UPS is how long you are going to run on them. Most UPS you are talking about a few minutes where a generator you might run for days at a time.

Power supplies if they are too smart sometime will just shut off when they get power they consider not good enough. The more common thing to happen is they just do not run as efficiently. So they might just waste more of the power as heat or in a worst case they can no longer provide enough power for your pc.

Running a generator that is not pure sign wave increases your chance to actually damage the power supply. When the parts are dumping power into heat rather than converting tends to reduce the life of the power supply. Likely a UPS does the same thing but for most people you are likely running well less than 1hr per year on your UPS and most times it is only running for seconds on the UPS when you see the short power glitch.

What is even worse trying to plug a UPS into a cheap generator. The generator will come on and the UPS will detect the power. It will then switch all the load from battery to the generator in addition to draw even more power to start to recharge the batteries. The generator will detect this extra load and try to increase the engine speed but for a very short time the voltage and line frequencies will drop. The UPS detects this and switches back to the battery. The generator then slows down because of need for less power. You get the UPS and generator constantly switching back and forth. Better generators like most inverter/sine wave generators do not have this issue because they are less dependent on engine speed to keep the power clean.

I see, do you maybe which generators are best for 10 kW~ house ? I mean, there are plenty of brands out there, and they can all cost differently, ya know any good examples maybe ?

 

[Aeacus]

but it's like dude, they are making their damn psus and they can't even guarantee on which UPSes it will work or not ?

Just like there are plethora of different PSU makers, from no-name Chinese crap, all the way to the best that money can buy; same is with UPSes too. Those start out with stand-by topology, outputting square wave, all the way to the online, delta-conversion topology with true/pure sine wave.

PSUs are designed to operate on the main electricity grid, which operates as true/pure sine wave. So, it's not the fault of PSU makers, when UPS makers cheap out on build quality and produce inferior UPSes.

With all products, there are varying degrees of build quality. Overall: cheap, mediocre and premium price. The higher the price - the better the product (usually).

mean I don't have time or bunch of their UPSes to try the simulated sine-wave...So it's obviously not a very good support from their side when you REALLY think about it when questions about UPS arise...

This much i also said already:

UPSes can output 3 different kinds of waveform:
1. square wave - cheapest of the three. ONLY good for robust hardware, like power generators and motors.
2. simulated sine wave (aka stepped-approximated sine wave) - mediocre price. Good for most home appliances (e.g fridge, washing machine, lights).
3. true/pure sine wave - high price. It is the same as you get out of the wall socket. ONLY waveform good for sensitive electronics, like medical equipment, TVs, PC PSUs.

Depending on different use case, you have selection of different UPSes.

By the way, these are my primary choices, are they really different if you exclude the watt power ? (1000W vs 1320W )
BGM2200B-GR
CP1600EPFCLCD

Well, compare the specs;
APC BGM2200B-GR, specs: https://www.apc.com/shop/hr/en/prod...-Pure-Sine-Wave-Midnight-Black-/P-BGM2200B-GR
CyberPower CP1600EPFCLCD, specs: https://www.cyberpower.com/eu/en/product/sku/cp1600epfclcd#specification

Differences;
Capacity:
APC - 2200VA/ 1320W
CyberPower - 1600VA/ 1000W

Recharge after full drain:
APC - 16 hours
CyberPower - 8 hours (to reach 90% charge)

Runtime:
APC - ??? (runtime chart doesn't open for me, so, i don't know the values)
CyberPower - 2.6 mins at 1000W load; 9.7 mins at 500W load.

Surge suppression (up to):
APC - 1080 Joules
CyberPower - 405 Joules

Input ports:
APC - 1x IEC C20
CyberPower - 1x IEC C14

Output ports:
APC - 2x IEC C13 with battery + surge protection; 2x Schuko with battery + surge protection ; 2x Schuko with only surge protection.

Direct link if image doesn't load: https://download.schneider-electric...S_2200B_GR_B_V&p_File_Type=rendition_1500_jpg


CyberPower - 6x Schuko. ALL protected by battery + surge.

Direct link if image doesn't load: https://www.cyberpower.com/eu/en/File/GetImageByGuid/e5e81d36-cf37-492b-b015-677630e554d9

Noise:
APC - 45 dB(A) at 1m.
CyberPower - 0 dB(A). *
* Noise isn't stated on CyberPower UPS specs, but if i take my UPS as baseline, which is predecessor of the one in current comparison, then i can say that my UPS noise output is 0 dB(A). Meaning, it is dead silent. When it switches to battery power, a LOUD alarm starts beeping, letting you know that main power went out, so, you can save your work and shut down your PC.

Conclusion; despite them both being true/pure sine wave and line-interactive topology UPSes, there are differences between the two.
Your call which one to pick.

Personally, i'd go with CyberPower, since it has far better selection of output ports than APC has them.
With APC, two ports are dedicated for PC use (IEC C13) and you may need to buy IEC C14 to IEC C14 cable as well, since, e.g my PSU cable has Schuko on the other end and not the IEC C14 female plug.
Also, two of the Schuko sockets on APC only have surge protection, without no battery backup. These two Schuko sockets act like glorified surge protection.
With CyberPower UPS, all it's output sockets are Schuko and there is no issue of buying dedicated cable. Also, all output ports are backed by battery and surge protector. So, IMO, CyberPower is more convenient to use.

 

[zgzdgz]

Just like there are plethora of different PSU makers, from no-name Chinese crap, all the way to the best that money can buy; same is with UPSes too. Those start out with stand-by topology, outputting square wave, all the way to the online, delta-conversion topology with true/pure sine wave.

PSUs are designed to operate on the main electricity grid, which operates as true/pure sine wave. So, it's not the fault of PSU makers, when UPS makers cheap out on build quality and produce inferior UPSes.

With all products, there are varying degrees of build quality. Overall: cheap, mediocre and premium price. The higher the price - the better the product (usually).


This much i also said already:

Depending on different use case, you have selection of different UPSes.


Well, compare the specs;
APC BGM2200B-GR, specs: https://www.apc.com/shop/hr/en/prod...-Pure-Sine-Wave-Midnight-Black-/P-BGM2200B-GR
CyberPower CP1600EPFCLCD, specs: https://www.cyberpower.com/eu/en/product/sku/cp1600epfclcd#specification

Differences;
Capacity:
APC - 2200VA/ 1320W
CyberPower - 1600VA/ 1000W

Recharge after full drain:
APC - 16 hours
CyberPower - 8 hours (to reach 90% charge)

Runtime:
APC - ??? (runtime chart doesn't open for me, so, i don't know the values)
CyberPower - 2.6 mins at 1000W load; 9.7 mins at 500W load.

Surge suppression (up to):
APC - 1080 Joules
CyberPower - 405 Joules

Input ports:
APC - 1x IEC C20
CyberPower - 1x IEC C14

Output ports:
APC - 2x IEC C13 with battery + surge protection; 2x Schuko with battery + surge protection ; 2x Schuko with only surge protection.

Direct link if image doesn't load: https://download.schneider-electric...S_2200B_GR_B_V&p_File_Type=rendition_1500_jpg


CyberPower - 6x Schuko. ALL protected by battery + surge.

Direct link if image doesn't load: https://www.cyberpower.com/eu/en/File/GetImageByGuid/e5e81d36-cf37-492b-b015-677630e554d9

Noise:
APC - 45 dB(A) at 1m.
CyberPower - 0 dB(A). *
* Noise isn't stated on CyberPower UPS specs, but if i take my UPS as baseline, which is predecessor of the one in current comparison, then i can say that my UPS noise output is 0 dB(A). Meaning, it is dead silent. When it switches to battery power, a LOUD alarm starts beeping, letting you know that main power went out, so, you can save your work and shut down your PC.

Conclusion; despite them both being true/pure sine wave and line-interactive topology UPSes, there are differences between the two.
Your call which one to pick.

Personally, i'd go with CyberPower, since it has far better selection of output ports than APC has them.
With APC, two ports are dedicated for PC use (IEC C13) and you may need to buy IEC C14 to IEC C14 cable as well, since, e.g my PSU cable has Schuko on the other end and not the IEC C14 female plug.
Also, two of the Schuko sockets on APC only have surge protection, without no battery backup. These two Schuko sockets act like glorified surge protection.
With CyberPower UPS, all it's output sockets are Schuko and there is no issue of buying dedicated cable. Also, all output ports are backed by battery and surge protector. So, IMO, CyberPower is more convenient to use.

I've just compared the power use in 1320 W APC model and in 1000W CP model, and you know what ? When I compared the power usage between these two models that had difference in watts, it sure as hell shown no real difference, here are the differences:

CYBER POWER - >

https://imgur.com/a/1gjIuP9

View: https://imgur.com/a/1gjIuP9

APC - >

https://imgur.com/a/UM1Nb6a

View: https://imgur.com/a/UM1Nb6a

 

[Aeacus]

When I compared the power usage between these two models that had difference in watts, it sure as hell shown no real difference, here are the differences:

Actually, there are differences, whereby APC is inferior.
Btw, thanks for the APC charts. For some reason, it didn't load for me, despite me trying with Firefox and Chrome as well.

In raw load numbers, they are;
APC - 132W = 43min
APC - 500W = 9min 8s
APC - 600W = 6min 49s
APC - 100W = 2min 9s
APC - 1320W = 28s

CyberPower - 60W = 122min 12s
CyberPower - 500W = 9min 42s
CyberPower - 600W = 7min 6s
CyberPower - 1000W = 2min 36s

On equal loads, namely 500W and 600W, CyberPower lasts longer, despite being less overall capacity. 320W less, compared to APC. This indicates efficiency, where CyberPower UPS is far more efficient than APC UPS.
Even when both UPSes would have same capacity, CyberPower would still be more efficient (based on runtime numbers).

Also, CyberPower recharges much faster as well, compared to APC. Nearly twice as fast.

 

[zgzdgz]

Actually, there are differences, whereby APC is inferior.
Btw, thanks for the APC charts. For some reason, it didn't load for me, despite me trying with Firefox and Chrome as well.

In raw load numbers, they are;
APC - 132W = 43min
APC - 500W = 9min 8s
APC - 600W = 6min 49s
APC - 100W = 2min 9s
APC - 1320W = 28s

CyberPower - 60W = 122min 12s
CyberPower - 500W = 9min 42s
CyberPower - 600W = 7min 6s
CyberPower - 1000W = 2min 36s

On equal loads, namely 500W and 600W, CyberPower lasts longer, despite being less overall capacity. 320W less, compared to APC. This indicates efficiency, where CyberPower UPS is far more efficient than APC UPS.
Even when both UPSes would have same capacity, CyberPower would still be more efficient (based on runtime numbers).

Also, CyberPower recharges much faster as well, compared to APC. Nearly twice as fast.

Yeah I've tried the UK version of their websites on APC and cyber power, and it seemed to show me the run time values.
Aha I see, so it's a win win for the CP, now, by any chance you know if the ups will work fine if it was connected into the surge protector ? As my rig is like 2-3 m~ away from the wall sockets, so either that or getting a longer ac power cord might be better, what do you think brotha ?

 

[Aeacus]

by any chance you know if the ups will work fine if it was connected into the surge protector ?

That is written in UPS manual as well, whereby, DO NOT plug the UPS'es input power cord to the surge protector. UPS itself already has surge protector in it, which also protects the UPS itself as well.

Proper connection when using UPS;
Wall socket - UPS - other devices (PC, monitor, speakers etc).

Though, as said above, there are hardware that can't be plugged to UPS, like printers/scanners (full list in UPS manual). For those;
Wall socket - printer/scanner.
or
Wall socket - proper (high quality) surge protector - printer/scanner.

Overall, i advise against using "normal/common" power strips that you can easily and cheaply buy from any store. Especially when it looks like so;

Direct link if image doesn't load: https://lanberg.eu/product-images/Z33335_192012.jpg

Why?
Further reading: https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/everything-work-but-it-doesnt-work.3773133/#post-22771910

Now, when you do need to have a power strip (e.g not enough wall sockets to power all your hardware), do get a proper surge protector. There are good surge protector brands. Even UPS manufacturers make proper surge protectors. Those are (but not limited to): CyberPower, APC, Tripp-Lite, Eaton, General Electric, Siemens.

E.g, CyberPower surge protectors: https://www.cyberpower.com/eu/en/product/overview/surge_protectors

Essential series does fine, but Professional series is better since it offers better protections.

E.g CyberPower P0820SUF0-DE;
specs: https://www.cyberpower.com/eu/en/product/sku/p0820suf0-de#specification
8x Schuko sockets, up to 1080 Joules and up to 22500A + indicators for surge protection and proper grounding. Oh, 2x USB type-A charge ports too (5V, 2.4A).

 

[bill001g]

I would be rather suspect of any so called run time numbers especially those provided by the company that makes the device. There are all kinds of tricky assumptions you can make to make the numbers appear to be something they are not.

The best way to get a idea how long a UPS will last is to look up the replacement batteries that they use. In general most UPS uses 1 or 2 12 volts batteries. Key though is to look at how many amp hours they hold.

Very basically the more amp hours total inside the UPS the longer it will last. The exact timing depends on many variables and this is where UPS manufactures twist the numbers. Key is the rate at which you draw the power and how much power is being lost due to thing like conversion from DC to AC voltages.

So two different UPS both lets say have 2 12volt 9ah batteries both have 2x12x9-->216 watts/hour of power. You of course will never get that but it is useful to compare the maximum theoretical possible between units.

 

[zgzdgz]

That is written in UPS manual as well, whereby, DO NOT plug the UPS'es input power cord to the surge protector. UPS itself already has surge protector in it, which also protects the UPS itself as well.

Proper connection when using UPS;
Wall socket - UPS - other devices (PC, monitor, speakers etc).

Though, as said above, there are hardware that can't be plugged to UPS, like printers/scanners (full list in UPS manual). For those;
Wall socket - printer/scanner.
or
Wall socket - proper (high quality) surge protector - printer/scanner.

Overall, i advise against using "normal/common" power strips that you can easily and cheaply buy from any store. Especially when it looks like so;

Direct link if image doesn't load: https://lanberg.eu/product-images/Z33335_192012.jpg

Why?
Further reading: https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/everything-work-but-it-doesnt-work.3773133/#post-22771910

Now, when you do need to have a power strip (e.g not enough wall sockets to power all your hardware), do get a proper surge protector. There are good surge protector brands. Even UPS manufacturers make proper surge protectors. Those are (but not limited to): CyberPower, APC, Tripp-Lite, Eaton, General Electric, Siemens.

E.g, CyberPower surge protectors: https://www.cyberpower.com/eu/en/product/overview/surge_protectors

Essential series does fine, but Professional series is better since it offers better protections.

E.g CyberPower P0820SUF0-DE;
specs: https://www.cyberpower.com/eu/en/product/sku/p0820suf0-de#specification
8x Schuko sockets, up to 1080 Joules and up to 22500A + indicators for surge protection and proper grounding. Oh, 2x USB type-A charge ports too (5V, 2.4A).

Thank you kindly, also, I know this might sound real weird, but, maybe do you know a decent eu website that sells the particular models of the UPS ? Cause locally it's a bit tad expensive, more like 340~ for that CP1600 UPS and 395~ for the APC, so I don't know, it could be great if any eu website that can ship under 340~.

 

[zgzdgz]

I would be rather suspect of any so called run time numbers especially those provided by the company that makes the device. There are all kinds of tricky assumptions you can make to make the numbers appear to be something they are not.

The best way to get a idea how long a UPS will last is to look up the replacement batteries that they use. In general most UPS uses 1 or 2 12 volts batteries. Key though is to look at how many amp hours they hold.

Very basically the more amp hours total inside the UPS the longer it will last. The exact timing depends on many variables and this is where UPS manufactures twist the numbers. Key is the rate at which you draw the power and how much power is being lost due to thing like conversion from DC to AC voltages.

So two different UPS both lets say have 2 12volt 9ah batteries both have 2x12x9-->216 watts/hour of power. You of course will never get that but it is useful to compare the maximum theoretical possible between units.

of the Mili amps ? Or "mAh" right ? Yeah I heard that, it's like in aeg airsoft, one shot equals one mAh or so, right ?