Question Are all Pure Sine Wave UPS the same ?

[zgzdgz]

Hello there, are all sine-wave ups the same ? Cause I thought so too, til I saw "5%-/+ distortion, power factor 0.60~" on its labels and started to wonder if that will affect the electronic devices in any way. Is it very important to get UPS that has replaceable batteries ? I have 1000W rmx corsair PSU and I don't think that my usage will ever exceed to 900W~ during heavy use ( Including 59W monitor), so will 900W UPS will suffice ? I am afraid that getting a reliable UPS becomes more and more the necessity, since every work is being done remotely.

5900x
4070
B550M Pro-Vdh
2 Sata HDDs
2 Nvme SSDs
RMx1000
2x 3600mHz vengeance 16GB
UR59C Samsung
Wifi/Bluetooth PCIE card
Currently connected devices - > Mouse + Keyboard + Prism Cloth +2 Headphones + Web cam + 2 USB HUBS .

 

[Aeacus]

Hello there, are all sine-wave ups the same ?

Overall: No.

There are 2 types of sine wave:
1. simulated sine wave (aka stepped-approximated sine wave)
2. true/pure sine wave

So, depending on which it is, it differs vastly.

so will 900W UPS will suffice ?

Completely depends if it is simulated sine wave or true/pure sine wave UPS.

Link the UPS specs, so i can check it out.
But overall, 900W (~1500VA) UPS should suffice for your build.

 

[zgzdgz]

Overall: No.

There are 2 types of sine wave:
1. simulated sine wave (aka stepped-approximated sine wave)
2. true/pure sine wave

So, depending on which it is, it differs vastly.


Completely depends if it is simulated sine wave or true/pure sine wave UPS.

Link the UPS specs, so i can check it out.
But overall, 900W (~1500VA) UPS should suffice for your build.

Yeah but still, even the if UPS say that it's pure sine-wave, I should just take their word for it ?
Here's from Gembird I think - > https://gembird.com/item.aspx?id=8737
Here's from PowerWalker I think - > https://powerwalker.com/product/10121119/ ,
https://powerwalker.com/product/10121136/
Also one more from Cyber Power, it's weird though, but still ->

https://www.cyberpower.com/de/en/product/sku/ols1000ea-de

I've checked APC and Cyber Power, and currently the APC with 900W and sine-wave ~ costs around 500~, so it's way over the line.

 

[Aeacus]

Yeah but still, even the if UPS say that it's pure sine-wave, I should just take their word for it ?
Here's from Gembird I think - > https://gembird.com/item.aspx?id=8737
Here's from PowerWalker I think - > https://powerwalker.com/product/10121119/ , https://powerwalker.com/product/10121136/
I've checked APC and Cyber Power, and currently the APC with 900W and sine-wave ~ costs around 500~, so it's way over the line.

That Gembird unit is way too beefy for your setup. That's 3000VA/2400W unit. Most likely also costs a fortune as well. If it doesn't, i'd avoid it.

I have no reason to think that this Gembird UPS isn't true/pure sine wave UPS. But from it's specs i can read that while it may output true/pure sine wave, it's build quality is low. This is especially evident of the 10ms transfer time it needs.

Proper line-interactive UPSes do not take that long to transfer from main to battery power. 10ms transfer time is more akin to stand-by topology, rather than line-interactive topology.

PowerWalker unit has the transfer time a bit better, typically 6ms but it also has max transfer time 10ms. So, i would not look towards that one either, despite it also being true/pure sine wave and line-interactive topology.

For comparison, here's the specs of my UPS: CyberPower PFC Sinewave CP1300EPFCLCD (1300VA/780W, true/pure sine wave, line-interactive);
specs: https://www.cyberpower.com/hk/en/product/sku/CP1300EPFCLCD#specification
(I have 2 of these in use actually.)

As you can see, proper (good quality) UPS has the transfer time of 4ms, which is expected of line-interactive topology.

Gembird unit also has way too high frequency regulation tolerance on battery power +/-10%, which is A LOT. PowerWalker and my CyberPower UPSes have the frequency regulation on battery power +/-1%.

I am afraid that getting a reliable UPS becomes more and more the necessity, since every work is being done remotely.

If you want reliable, then look towards: APC, CyberPower and TrippLite. There are other, lesser ones as well, like the Gembird and PowerWalker you presented.

Based on the specs of Gembird and PowerWalker UPSes, i can see that they are built with lower quality. Thus, i wouldn't trust their UPSes to be reliable and/or long lasting.

I've checked APC and Cyber Power, and currently the APC with 900W and sine-wave ~ costs around 500~, so it's way over the line.

It seems that you've greatly underestimated the cost of a proper UPS. Since UPS'es job is to keep your PC running when there's blackout by supplying good and stable electricity to your PC, they also cost a lot of money.
For example, i payed €230 Euros for one of my CyberPower CP1300EPFCLCD (1300VA/ 780W) UPS, 6 years ago. Since your PC is expensive, it's not easily replaced. Like it or not, if you want the protection, it's not going to be cheap. Though, if you want cheap and good UPS, you need to buy 2x UPSes; the cheap one and the good one.

Or in other words: if you pay peanuts - you will get monkeys.

Is it very important to get UPS that has replaceable batteries ?

Well, it adds to the lifespan of the UPS.

Battery inside the UPS lasts for ~3 years or so. So, when you can not replace the battery in it, you have to buy a whole new unit. But when UPS has user replaceable battery in it (e.g my CyberPower UPS does have that feature), then you can only replace the internal battery in it, while keeping the rest of the unit (inverter, AVR, ECU and outside housing). It is cheaper to buy new battery every ~3 years, than replacing the entire unit.


Edit:
I suggest that you look towards CyberPower New PFC Sinewave series (successor of my PFC Sinewave series);
specs: https://www.cyberpower.com/eu/en/product/series/pfc_sinewave_gen._2#models

This "New PFC Sinewave" is actually what i'm planning to get, to replace my aging UPSes out. Though, my UPSes actually work fine but in an event they should die (mine are already 6 years old), i've done my research in advance, to know what to get as a replacement.

 

[zgzdgz]

That Gembird unit is way too beefy for your setup. That's 3000VA/2400W unit. Most likely also costs a fortune as well. If it doesn't, i'd avoid it.

I have no reason to think that this Gembird UPS isn't true/pure sine wave UPS. But from it's specs i can read that while it may output true/pure sine wave, it's build quality is low. This is especially evident of the 10ms transfer time it needs.

Proper line-interactive UPSes do not take that long to transfer from main to battery power. 10ms transfer time is more akin to stand-by topology, rather than line-interactive topology.

PowerWalker unit has the transfer time a bit better, typically 6ms but it also has max transfer time 10ms. So, i would not look towards that one either, despite it also being true/pure sine wave and line-interactive topology.

For comparison, here's the specs of my UPS: CyberPower PFC Sinewave CP1300EPFCLCD (1300VA/780W, true/pure sine wave, line-interactive);
specs: https://www.cyberpower.com/hk/en/product/sku/CP1300EPFCLCD#specification
(I have 2 of these in use actually.)

As you can see, proper (good quality) UPS has the transfer time of 4ms, which is expected of line-interactive topology.

Gembird unit also has way too high frequency regulation tolerance on battery power +/-10%, which is A LOT. PowerWalker and my CyberPower UPSes have the frequency regulation on battery power +/-1%.


If you want reliable, then look towards: APC, CyberPower and TrippLite. There are other, lesser ones as well, like the Gembird and PowerWalker you presented.

Based on the specs of Gembird and PowerWalker UPSes, i can see that they are built with lower quality. Thus, i wouldn't trust their UPSes to be reliable and/or long lasting.


It seems that you've greatly underestimated the cost of a proper UPS. Since UPS'es job is to keep your PC running when there's blackout by supplying good and stable electricity to your PC, they also cost a lot of money.
For example, i payed €230 Euros for one of my CyberPower CP1300EPFCLCD (1300VA/ 780W) UPS, 6 years ago. Since your PC is expensive, it's not easily replaced. Like it or not, if you want the protection, it's not going to be cheap. Though, if you want cheap and good UPS, you need to buy 2x UPSes; the cheap one and the good one.

Or in other words: if you pay peanuts - you will get monkeys.


Well, it adds to the lifespan of the UPS.

Battery inside the UPS lasts for ~3 years or so. So, when you can not replace the battery in it, you have to buy a whole new unit. But when UPS has user replaceable battery in it (e.g my CyberPower UPS does have that feature), then you can only replace the internal battery in it, while keeping the rest of the unit (inverter, AVR, ECU and outside housing). It is cheaper to buy new battery every ~3 years, than replacing the entire unit.


Edit:
I suggest that you look towards CyberPower New PFC Sinewave series (successor of my PFC Sinewave series);
specs: https://www.cyberpower.com/eu/en/product/series/pfc_sinewave_gen._2#models

This "New PFC Sinewave" is actually what i'm planning to get, to replace my aging UPSes out. Though, my UPSes actually work fine but in an event they should die (mine are already 6 years old), i've done my research in advance, to know what to get as a replacement.

Aha, So I was right, it was too damn Good to be true to get the powerwalker or the gembird, even though they both claim have to have the "pure sine-wave" output, thank you kindly for clarifying that ! Have you checked this one too ->https://www.cyberpower.com/de/en/product/sku/ols1000ea-de ? It looked pretty decent to me, and it's quite reasonable to get it for the current price, though, I don't really know what to think of it when it comes to use towards the PC.
Nah It's all good, I just meant, that particular APC model of 900W and the sinewave jumped from 385~ to 500~ or something, so there is only one shop that has it, so maybe, I don't know, try cyber power instead ?

 

[Aeacus]

Have you checked this one too ->https://www.cyberpower.com/de/en/product/sku/ols1000ea-de ? It looked pretty decent to me, though, I don't really know what to think of it when it comes to use towards the PC.

Oh wow, that is online, double-conversion UPS. It is actually better than the line-interactive topology UPS that i'm using. But since it also costs more, i didn't have money to buy online, double-conversion UPS (+ the maintenance cost of owning one). While online, delta-conversion UPS is the best topology there is (at least at current date).
Also, in my opinion, every PC should have an UPS.


More in-depth about UPSes;

UPSes can output 3 different kinds of waveform:
1. square wave - cheapest of the three. ONLY good for robust hardware, like power generators and motors.
2. simulated sine wave (aka stepped-approximated sine wave) - mediocre price. Good for most home appliances (e.g fridge, washing machine, lights).
3. true/pure sine wave - high price. It is the same as you get out of the wall socket. ONLY waveform good for sensitive electronics, like medical equipment, TVs, PC PSUs.

So, you want to have true/pure sine wave UPS. Simulated sine wave UPS may also work, but it may not. More of that below;


When looking for an UPS, there are 2 things to look out:
1. Output waveform (square wave, simulated sine wave and true/pure sine wave)
2. Design (stand-by, line-interactive and online)

From here you can read about the differences between output waveform,
link: https://suvastika.com/why-choose-a-sinewave-inverter-ups/

And here are explanations about the UPS design,
link: https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1272971

Waveform and design
For PCs, line-interactive UPS would be more than enough since PSUs can easily handle the 2ms to 5ms transfer time of line-interactive UPS.
As far as output waveform goes, true/pure sine wave UPS is best used. While simulated sine wave UPSes are cheaper than true/pure sine wave UPSes, PSUs with Active PFC aren't compatible with simulated sine wave. You might get simulated sine wave UPS running with Active PFC PSU but there can be some major issues. Here's what, how and why.

How do you know which PSUs have Active PFC and which ones don't?
Simple, every PSU that has 80+ certification (e.g 80+ Bronze or 80+ Gold) has Active PFC.

What is Active PFC?
Further reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor#Power_factor_correction_(PFC)_in_non-linear_loads

What can happen when using simulated sine wave UPS with Active PFC PSU?
When simulated sine wave UPS switches over to the battery power, one of 3 things can happen:
1. UPS displays error resulting PC to shut down immediately.
2. UPS shuts down resulting PC to shut down immediately.
3. UPS switches to battery power resulting PC to power off from UPS (PC stays on).

Why it happens?
Simulated sine wave UPS produces a zero output state during the phase change cycle resulting in a power “gap”. This gap may cause power interruption for active PFC PSUs when switching from AC power output to simulated sine wave output (battery mode).

What to do next?
As stated above, your PC can run off from simulated sine wave UPS but be prepared when you face issues with it. When issues do rise, your best bet would be returning the simulated sine wave UPS and getting true/pure sine wave UPS. Or you can go with true/pure sine wave UPS off the bat.

Wattage
As far as UPS wattage goes, you need to consider the power draw of your PC and monitors. Maybe speakers and wi-fi router too if you plan to plug those into the UPS as well. Though, printers, scanners and other such hardware (full list on your UPS manual) don't plug to the UPS since their startup power draw is way too much for UPS to handle and you can fry your UPS.

Taking PSU's max wattage as a baseline is good idea since it will give your UPS more headroom and you can get longer runtime out of your UPS. Since your PSU is 1000W, at least one monitor is added on top of it. As you said, your monitor uses 59W. Wi-fi routers don't consume much power. For example, my Cisco EPC3940L consumes 12V at 3A which means 36W.

Now, you don't have to get 1000W or 1100W UPS. Your build does fine with 800W or 900W UPS as well.
But the more powerful UPS you have, the longer UPS can keep your PC running before it's battery is empty.


A bit more about online (double- or delta-conversion) UPSes;

Online UPSes work on the principle that power is always taken directly from the battery (0 transfer time) and inverter is charging the battery at the same time. Now, if there is failure within the battery, it switches to the main power, directly from the wall. Online topology works vice-versa to the line-interactive topology.

Pros of online topology:
* 0 transfer time
* true/pure sine wave
* no downtime at all

Cons of online topology:
* battery will wear out fast
* only authorized service can replace batteries

Online topology is commonly used in server parks, where UPSes have multiple replaceable batteries. So, when one of the batteries dies, it is replaced without cutting the power to the servers at all. However, online UPSes doesn't have user replaceable batteries, only authorized service can replace their batteries, doing it on-site.

So, when you're home user, better to look towards line-interactive topology (e.g CyberPower New PFC Sinewave series i linked above), where you can power down your system and replace the battery when needed. It's also cheaper than online topology UPS.
But when you have a business, where PC downtime is not acceptable, online topology would suit better. But this means that to replace the battery, you have to order proper technician on-site, who then does the battery replacement (while the PC remains powered at all times).

 

[zgzdgz]

Oh wow, that is online, double-conversion UPS. It is actually better than the line-interactive topology UPS that i'm using. But since it also costs more, i didn't have money to buy online, double-conversion UPS (+ the maintenance cost of owning one). While online, delta-conversion UPS is the best topology there is (at least at current date).
Also, in my opinion, every PC should have an UPS.


More in-depth about UPSes;

UPSes can output 3 different kinds of waveform:
1. square wave - cheapest of the three. ONLY good for robust hardware, like power generators and motors.
2. simulated sine wave (aka stepped-approximated sine wave) - mediocre price. Good for most home appliances (e.g fridge, washing machine, lights).
3. true/pure sine wave - high price. It is the same as you get out of the wall socket. ONLY waveform good for sensitive electronics, like medical equipment, TVs, PC PSUs.

So, you want to have true/pure sine wave UPS. Simulated sine wave UPS may also work, but it may not. More of that below;


When looking for an UPS, there are 2 things to look out:
1. Output waveform (square wave, simulated sine wave and true/pure sine wave)
2. Design (stand-by, line-interactive and online)

From here you can read about the differences between output waveform,
link: https://suvastika.com/why-choose-a-sinewave-inverter-ups/

And here are explanations about the UPS design,
link: https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1272971

Waveform and design
For PCs, line-interactive UPS would be more than enough since PSUs can easily handle the 2ms to 5ms transfer time of line-interactive UPS.
As far as output waveform goes, true/pure sine wave UPS is best used. While simulated sine wave UPSes are cheaper than true/pure sine wave UPSes, PSUs with Active PFC aren't compatible with simulated sine wave. You might get simulated sine wave UPS running with Active PFC PSU but there can be some major issues. Here's what, how and why.

How do you know which PSUs have Active PFC and which ones don't?
Simple, every PSU that has 80+ certification (e.g 80+ Bronze or 80+ Gold) has Active PFC.

What is Active PFC?
Further reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor#Power_factor_correction_(PFC)_in_non-linear_loads

What can happen when using simulated sine wave UPS with Active PFC PSU?
When simulated sine wave UPS switches over to the battery power, one of 3 things can happen:
1. UPS displays error resulting PC to shut down immediately.
2. UPS shuts down resulting PC to shut down immediately.
3. UPS switches to battery power resulting PC to power off from UPS (PC stays on).

Why it happens?
Simulated sine wave UPS produces a zero output state during the phase change cycle resulting in a power “gap”. This gap may cause power interruption for active PFC PSUs when switching from AC power output to simulated sine wave output (battery mode).

What to do next?
As stated above, your PC can run off from simulated sine wave UPS but be prepared when you face issues with it. When issues do rise, your best bet would be returning the simulated sine wave UPS and getting true/pure sine wave UPS. Or you can go with true/pure sine wave UPS off the bat.

Wattage
As far as UPS wattage goes, you need to consider the power draw of your PC and monitors. Maybe speakers and wi-fi router too if you plan to plug those into the UPS as well. Though, printers, scanners and other such hardware (full list on your UPS manual) don't plug to the UPS since their startup power draw is way too much for UPS to handle and you can fry your UPS.

Taking PSU's max wattage as a baseline is good idea since it will give your UPS more headroom and you can get longer runtime out of your UPS. Since your PSU is 1000W, at least one monitor is added on top of it. As you said, your monitor uses 59W. Wi-fi routers don't consume much power. For example, my Cisco EPC3940L consumes 12V at 3A which means 36W.

Now, you don't have to get 1000W or 1100W UPS. Your build does fine with 800W or 900W UPS as well.
But the more powerful UPS you have, the longer UPS can keep your PC running before it's battery is empty.


A bit more about online (double- or delta-conversion) UPSes;

Online UPSes work on the principle that power is always taken directly from the battery (0 transfer time) and inverter is charging the battery at the same time. Now, if there is failure within the battery, it switches to the main power, directly from the wall. Online topology works vice-versa to the line-interactive topology.

Pros of online topology:
* 0 transfer time
* true/pure sine wave
* no downtime at all

Cons of online topology:
* battery will wear out fast
* only authorized service can replace batteries

Online topology is commonly used in server parks, where UPSes have multiple replaceable batteries. So, when one of the batteries dies, it is replaced without cutting the power to the servers at all. However, online UPSes doesn't have user replaceable batteries, only authorized service can replace their batteries, doing it on-site.

So, when you're home user, better to look towards line-interactive topology (e.g CyberPower New PFC Sinewave series i linked above), where you can power down your system and replace the battery when needed. It's also cheaper than online topology UPS.
But when you have a business, where PC downtime is not acceptable, online topology would suit better. But this means that to replace the battery, you have to order proper technician on-site, who then does the battery replacement (while the PC remains powered at all times).

To be honest, that CP Online UPS would prolly my best chance at getting any reliable UPS at all, as CF1500 (900W) is nowhere to be found, but that online ups would prolly get the job done, as I don't plan to use any external speakers, printer, or anything that I mentioned before, just the pc, peripherals and the monitor, that's all.
Also, I have like 10~ 140mm fans inside the case, does that matter much ?
The 4 Noctua NF-A15 fans ( including fans on the CPU Heatsink ) that runs at:
Input power (typical)

0,53 W
Input power (max.)

0,96 W
Input current (typical)

0,04 A
Max. input current

0,08 A

Be Quiet Silent Wings 4 Pro ( BL099 ) 7 fans run at:

Input power (W) 6 Input current (A) 0.5

6 Be Quiet fans run on Noctua Fan Hub ( ON the PUMP_HEADER), and the rest of the NF-A15 Fans runs on the Deep Cool Fan Hub ( SYS_FAN_1). Sorry if I'm being too nerdy about it, I'm just wan't to account for every watt

 

[Aeacus]

just the pc, peripherals and the monitor, that's all.
Also, I have like 10~ 140mm fans inside the case, does that matter much ?
The 4 Noctua NF-A15 fans ( including fans on the CPU Heatsink ) that runs at:
Input power (typical)

0,53 W
Input power (max.)

0,96 W
Input current (typical)

0,04 A
Max. input current

0,08 A

Be Quiet Silent Wings 4 Pro ( BL099 ) 7 fans run at:

Input power (W) 6 Input current (A) 0.5

6 Be Quiet fans run on Noctua Fan Hub ( ON the PUMP_HEADER), and the rest of the NF-A15 Fans runs on the Deep Cool Fan Hub ( SYS_FAN_1). Sorry if I'm being too nerdy about it, I'm just wan't to account for every watt

Hence why i said;

Taking PSU's max wattage as a baseline is good idea since it will give your UPS more headroom and you can get longer runtime out of your UPS.

Since your entire PC (internals) are powered by PSU, there's no need to add up individual components and their power draw.

Though, there wattmeters out there that measure PC's power draw. These are good, since they also measure the PSU's loss of efficiency as well. So, you can learn the actual wattage PC consumes from the UPS.

E.g before i bought my UPSes, i bought McLean Energy MCE06 230V/16A wattmeter;
specs: http://maclean.pl/index.php?option=...cznej-maclean-mce06&cid=7:mierniki&Itemid=110
(Note: official specs are in Polish, but you can use Google Translate to translate it into English.)

I plugged my wattmeter to the main power socket and plugged the PC into it. Then i ran synthetic benchmarks to utilize my CPU and GPU at 100%, while looking what wattmeter shows as entire power consumption of the PC.

Spoiler: Pic of my wattmeter results (click here to view)

Since i ever got ~204W peak, i knew how much my PC consumes at 100% load (which also includes PSU's efficiency loss). Then, i added the power consumption of monitor and 2.1 speakers to it as well, to know the bare minimum UPS capacity that i need.

Since my PSU is 650W unit, i took this as a baseline, for longer runtime. So, ended up going with 1300VA/ 780W UPS.
With that beefy of an UPS and relatively low power consumption of my PC (big thanks to Seasonic SSR-650TD 80+ Titanium efficiency PSU), my UPS runtime is ~30mins during blackout. Though, i ever need ~5 mins to save my work and shut down my PC during blackout.

To be honest, that CP Online UPS would prolly my best chance at getting any reliable UPS at all, as CF1500 (900W) is nowhere to be found, but that online ups would prolly get the job done

If you do not have CyberPower PFC Sinewave series available at your area, then CyberPower online, double-conversion UPS is also a good choice. Now, i can't tell how noisy it is, since it will be constantly working and in server parks, noise isn't an issue at all (since all servers are very noisy and they are kept in sound isolated rooms, away from humans).

 

[zgzdgz]

Hence why i said;

Since your entire PC (internals) are powered by PSU, there's no need to add up individual components and their power draw.

Though, there wattmeters out there that measure PC's power draw. These are good, since they also measure the PSU's loss of efficiency as well. So, you can learn the actual wattage PC consumes from the UPS.

E.g before i bought my UPSes, i bought McLean Energy MCE06 230V/16A wattmeter;
specs: http://maclean.pl/index.php?option=...cznej-maclean-mce06&cid=7:mierniki&Itemid=110
(Note: official specs are in Polish, but you can use Google Translate to translate it into English.)

I plugged my wattmeter to the main power socket and plugged the PC into it. Then i ran synthetic benchmarks to utilize my CPU and GPU at 100%, while looking what wattmeter shows as entire power consumption of the PC.

Spoiler: Pic of my wattmeter results (click here to view)

Since i ever got ~204W peak, i knew how much my PC consumes at 100% load (which also includes PSU's efficiency loss). Then, i added the power consumption of monitor and 2.1 speakers to it as well, to know the bare minimum UPS capacity that i need.

Since my PSU is 650W unit, i took this as a baseline, for longer runtime. So, ended up going with 1300VA/ 780W UPS.
With that beefy of an UPS and relatively low power consumption of my PC (big thanks to Seasonic SSR-650TD 80+ Titanium efficiency PSU), my UPS runtime is ~30mins during blackout. Though, i ever need ~5 mins to save my work and shut down my PC during blackout.


If you do not have CyberPower PFC Sinewave series available at your area, then CyberPower online, double-conversion UPS is also a good choice. Now, i can't tell how noisy it is, since it will be constantly working and in server parks, noise isn't an issue at all (since all servers are very noisy and they are kept in sound isolated rooms, away from humans).

Again, you are truly an awesome dude ! Very forthcoming, very kind and helpful tech guru, thank you kindly for all of that vital info! One more final kind of an unusual question, basically, when it comes to gas/diesel/petrol generators that can power a house with 10kW~ output ( at least it's what it says on the fuse box ), is it the same with the sinewave stuff, or it's a different kind of issue ? Because, I was actually told that cheaper generators ( less 1000eur~) most likely wont be providing "safe and clean" type of electricity to the devices and it would be just like the UPS and it's simulated/modified sine-wave kind of stuff, is that really true ? Would that be the same with the solar panels on the roof too ?

 

[Aeacus]

when it comes to gas/diesel/petrol generators that can power a house with 10kW~ output ( at least it's what it says on the fuse box ), is it the same with the sinewave stuff, or it's a different kind of issue ?

Electrical generators usually provide square wave output. Some can provide simulated sine wave as well. (Since after all, when there's no main electricity grid, you'd rather have lights on or stove powered, rather than PC, which doesn't have internet connection regardless.) Though, there are true/pure sine wave electrical generators as well but those cost a lot (just like with UPS; square wave is cheapest, then comes simulated sine wave and true/pure sine wave UPS costs the most).

A bit further reading: https://support.generac.com/s/artic...a-Pure-True-Sine-Wave-or-a-Modified-Sine-Wave

So, to know for sure, you need to read into the generator's specs to see what waveform they output.
Oh, with generators, they usually have high EMI output. So, you need EMI filtering as well.

Would that be the same with the solar panels on the roof too ?

With solar panels, you never directly use the power they output, since it varies based on the sunlight (weather conditions) and if it's a day or night. On top of that, solar panels produce DC, while household appliances (and PC's PSU) operate at AC. Instead, solar panels are used to charge batteries (big, beefy ones) and needed power is taken from batteries then. In a way, solar panels work very similar to the online topology UPS.

Though, most solar panel inverters do produce true/pure sine wave, but with all things, you have to be careful and read precisely if the solar inverter outputs true/pure sine wave or simulated sine wave.

To put it simply;
Solar panel - DC - batteries - DC - inverter + AVR - AC - household appliances (including PC PSU, which in turn, turns AC back to DC for PC components consumption).
Electrical generator - AC - EMI filter + AVR - AC - household appliances.

Simplest way for PC to operate without relying on main's power or backup power (UPS, generator), is to buy a laptop.
But if you plan to go to the route of electrical generator or solar panels, i suggest that you consult with certified electrician 1st, to find out the best solution according to your needs (and which also doesn't break your bank).

Also, do note that there are both, AC and DC generators out there (e.g solar panels are actually DC generators). And AC generators (gasoline/diesel powered), overall, fall into 2 classifications;
* those that provide constant power to the system (backup generators, e.g used during accidents/disasters by rescue personnel).
* those that are designed for appliances to be plugged directly into them (e.g used usually by farmers, to deliver electrical capability to the fields when repairs are needed to be done).

 

[zgzdgz]

Electrical generators usually provide square wave output. Some can provide simulated sine wave as well. (Since after all, when there's no main electricity grid, you'd rather have lights on or stove powered, rather than PC, which doesn't have internet connection regardless.) Though, there are true/pure sine wave electrical generators as well but those cost a lot (just like with UPS; square wave is cheapest, then comes simulated sine wave and true/pure sine wave UPS costs the most).

A bit further reading: https://support.generac.com/s/artic...a-Pure-True-Sine-Wave-or-a-Modified-Sine-Wave

So, to know for sure, you need to read into the generator's specs to see what waveform they output.
Oh, with generators, they usually have high EMI output. So, you need EMI filtering as well.


With solar panels, you never directly use the power they output, since it varies based on the sunlight (weather conditions) and if it's a day or night. On top of that, solar panels produce DC, while household appliances (and PC's PSU) operate at AC. Instead, solar panels are used to charge batteries (big, beefy ones) and needed power is taken from batteries then. In a way, solar panels work very similar to the online topology UPS.

Though, most solar panel inverters do produce true/pure sine wave, but with all things, you have to be careful and read precisely if the solar inverter outputs true/pure sine wave or simulated sine wave.

To put it simply;
Solar panel - DC - batteries - DC - inverter + AVR - AC - household appliances (including PC PSU, which in turn, turns AC back to DC for PC components consumption).
Electrical generator - AC - EMI filter + AVR - AC - household appliances.

Simplest way for PC to operate without relying on main's power or backup power (UPS, generator), is to buy a laptop.
But if you plan to go to the route of electrical generator or solar panels, i suggest that you consult with certified electrician 1st, to find out the best solution according to your needs (and which also doesn't break your bank).

Also, do note that there are both, AC and DC generators out there (e.g solar panels are actually DC generators). And AC generators (gasoline/diesel powered), overall, fall into 2 classifications;
* those that provide constant power to the system (backup generators, e.g used during accidents/disasters by rescue personnel).
* those that are designed for appliances to be plugged directly into them (e.g used usually by farmers, to deliver electrical capability to the fields when repairs are needed to be done).

Yeah that's I've figured, some high tech EMI filtering and solar inverters are needed to make sure that equipment won't fry upon powering on, noted it! By any chance you have generator or solar panels yourself ?

 

[Aeacus]

By any chance you have generator or solar panels yourself ?

No. I live in an apartment building.

But our apartment building management (which i'm also part of), did discuss putting solar panels onto the roof. Sadly, due to how the electrical system is built and used within apartments, those solar panels have little, if any, use for residents themselves. So, the idea was dismissed. Also, it would cost a lot, cementing the fact that solar panels are essentially waste of money for our use case.

Though, management did purchase gasoline powered backup generator (simulated sine wave output), where, in an event, if there's power loss in the main grid, the central heating and water distribution (including sewage) systems in our apartment complex would remain operational.