ARM in more Netbooks than Atom by 2012

[hairycat101]

Actually, garyale, I think you illistrated my points quite well. The tech support is not as redily available. Novice computer users don't know where to get it. People who think the "Geek Squad" is good tech support definately fall into that catagory. As far as the learning curve from office 03 to office 07, I can't agree with you any stronger. That was the worst thing MS could have done.

The thing that I like least of all for novice users with linux is the installation of other software. There just isn't that much software to buy, and it's a lot harder (90% of the time) then windows installations.

I actually like Kubuntu. My main problem is that it doens't do what I need done. It won't run my AutoCAD programs for my work and it won't run Direct X at home for games. There are CAD programs for linux, but they suck and they're not designed for contractor take-off use and OpenGL just isn't as popular as DX is... so very few games are made to use it and thus fewer are avaible for a cost effective port to linux.

 

[garydale]

re. Tech Support for Linux: you go to where you got it. Same as with the Mac. mac users don't think "Geek Squad" either. If you got your Linux box from Dell, you'd call the tech support they've arranged for it.

re. Installation of software hard? Let's see, you click on add/remove programs, locate the software you want to install from the repository, and click "install". You don't even need to find the software's disk. Moreover there is no hunting down the original installation materials to locate the product keys to allow installation to proceed. Of course, the hard part of most software installs is (1) going to the store, and (2) parting with your money.

The last time I tried installing a Windows package, it took me weeks because the company I bought it from (online) didn't send me the code I needed to activate it and their support people couldn't figure out that I needed a different code than the one I'd used for the previous version. Once I finally got the software installed, I found out that their web site gave the wrong requirements (I needed a much better graphics card than I had) and also overstated its capabilities. I ended up having to request a refund because, apart from some user interface changes - which I didn't really like - it was just a slower version of the previous release with bugs in different places.

And that is one reason why I like Linux - if I find a bug, I can report it and it gets fixed. With Windows software, they usually want to you buy a newer release that may or may not fix the bug and probably has some new ones thrown in.

re. CAD: Yes, AutoCAD works better than any of the Linux CAD programs. However, Linux rules in other areas. It owns the animation & special effects markets.

re. Games: If you're a dedicated gamer, get a playstation or x-box (if you don't mind needing a new one every year). Yes, Windows has the edge in games, but it's a rapidly shrinking edge because the Mac market has also grown and developers are looking more at cross-platform game development, which DirectX doesn't offer.

 

[hairycat101]

Repository installs are easy... The software in the repository is pretty weak. If you want to install something that isn't free, i.e. has enough value for someone to charge for it, then you face an installation process. Your problem installing a peice of software with no activation code is atypical and reflects the need for the activation code and not a problem with windows install.

 

[JimmiG]

“I'm confused as to why you prefer proprietary x86 applications to open source ARM applications.”

With ARM, you're stuck with the open source alternatives, where as x86 whether running Windows or Linux gives you access to much more software. Most good open source apps are available for Windows too, like OpenOffice, Firefox, even GIMP. You can even run Linux apps inside Windows with things like andLinux. It works the other way around too with Wine, except for some games, music applications etc. As long as you're on x86, there are no limitations or "shackles".

My main desktop system is used primarily for gaming and music production, so Linux is out of the question. There are no good Linux DAWs that do what I want yet, and Wine or virtualization are not options because of the low latency you need when working with music. Running Windows games in Linux is hit or miss.

However I was not that impressed with Ubuntu on my Netbook either, even though I only use it for basic web surfing and email. Many power saving features were either absent or disabled and features like LEDs and the WLAN toggle switch didn't work out of the box. Getting WLAN power save to work required the use of ndiswrapper and an old Windows driver. Audio power saving doesn't work. Graphics performance was more sluggish. Audio and WLAN would sometimes break after resuming from standby. Battery life was at least 30-40 minutes lower than XP without any tweaks and I only managed to close the gap to about 20-25 minutes less at best.

“It's worth noting that most netbooks give you the option of running Linux or Windows. However, the XP you get is an antique, stripped down version shoehorned into the netbook. The Linux versions are either cheaper or more powerful and feature an up-to-date edition of Linux and the various applications.”

The Linux version of the Aspire One comes with 512MB RAM vs 1GB for the XP version. The Linux version they give you is based on an ancient version of Fedora and they only provide a simple launcher by default with no easy way to add more applications or switch to the full desktop. The Linux OS that ships with the Eee PC is dumbed down in a similar way. At least they've optimized the OS for the particular Netbook, so battery life and performance are great. But that comes at a great cost in terms of flexibility and usefulness. The XP versions of these netbooks ships with a fully featured copy of XP Home, the same one that has shipped with most OEM systems for years and years.

 

[Guest]

ARM/Atom/Nano/... can co-exist in netbook market. Every product has their own focus!

In Asia, netbook is free for 3G/3.5G subscriber for some phone provider. ARM netbook would be perfect for this. We even can see Android netbook (ARM based) taking market share here.

For people like M$ products, Atom/ION/Nano/Whatever X86 is perfect fit for them.

I just found this company they have ARM-based netbook for demo: http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/touchbook/

Quite interesting... you can detach the screen!

 

[Guest]

Battery life is a huge deal. ARM will gain a lot of momentum in the netbook market. Also dont underestimate Linux : Ubuntu, Mandriva and co. are great distributions, they'll work well on netbooks.

 

[GaryDaGeek]

I think we're getting a little wide off the mark in this discussion. A Netbook isn't a Notebook or a Desktop Computer. It's an appliance.

There's a good article here: http://www.fool.com/investing/high-growth/2009/04/01/google-counterpunches-microsoft.aspx

It is about Cloud Computing and that is about running applications remotely. You use the power of the remote machine to do the processing.

Many of the open source applications would work just fine for most of us, and many would be free to use. They wouldn't have to reside on the local system at all but they could if you wanted them to, so you could still use them when you are off line.

If I didn't have to worry about application program Operating System hardware compatibility why would I want to? I don't worry about what software my phone is using, but I can still do all kinds of things with an iPhone or a Black Berry. I know the programs are up to date and I don't have to do anything to make sure they work. "Yes there's an APP for that.".

If I want to run AutoCad I can run it from the server. I can access it from anywhere from just about any computer using Remote Desktop Protocol. I could access programs and files on my Computers at work, or at home. I could access them using the Netbook and run them remotely from anywhere as long as I have Internet access.

Having a service that keeps the Operating System up to date using Android, or some other Linux flavor, works great for me. All of the program compatibility issues become the service providers problem. They only have to deal with a limited set of hardware configurations and I don't need to be a System's Administrator or pay for stuff I don't use or want.

If I could run anything I wanted to in its native mode from just about anywhere, and it's easy to use, I wouldn't care any more about what O.S. it was running then I would care what O.S. my phone is using.

Besides, who wants to run AutoCAD or Photo Shop from a 10" screen using a wheel mouse and a shrunken keyboard?

If I want to run professional Apps like that, I would much rather run them from a real computer. Even then I could just run them when I need them as a service, especially if I don't use them enough to justify buying them or paying for constant upgrades.

I'm not going to burn my desktop; but having a little two pound portable PC that could do all that for a couple hundred bucks by around 2012 would be cool.

I don't see any reason why an ARM processor wouldn't be plenty.

Linux is a light weight O.S. with light weight Apps. It is highly customizable, isn't a resource hog and most of what the Netbook will be doing is just sending and receiving commands from the Host machine.

That makes for low power consumption and long battery life. For some people it's all they will need. For others it augments what they already have.

Now, if they could just figure out a way so I could fold it up unobtrusively and clip it on my hip so I could ditch this damn phone

 

[GaryDaGeek]

I think we're getting a little wide off the mark in this discussion. A Netbook isn't a Notebook or a Desktop Computer. It's an appliance.

There's a good article here: http://www.fool.com/investing/high-growth/2009/04/01/google-counterpunches-microsoft.aspx

It is about Cloud Computing and that is about running applications remotely. You use the power of the remote machine to do the processing.

Many of the open source applications would work just fine for most of us, and many would be free to use. They wouldn't have to reside on the local system at all but they could if you wanted them to, so you could still use them when you are off line.

If I didn't have to worry about application program Operating System hardware compatibility why would I want to? I don't worry about what software my phone is using, but I can still do all kinds of things with an iPhone or a Black Berry. I know the programs are up to date and I don't have to do anything to make sure they work. "Yes there's an APP for that.".

If I want to run AutoCad I can run it from the server. I can access it from anywhere from just about any computer using Remote Desktop Protocol. I could access programs and files on my Computers at work, or at home. I could access them using the Netbook and run them remotely from anywhere as long as I have Internet access.

Having a service that keeps the Operating System up to date using Android, or some other Linux flavor, works great for me. All of the program compatibility issues become the service providers problem. They only have to deal with a limited set of hardware configurations and I don't need to be a System's Administrator or pay for stuff I don't use or want.

If I could run anything I wanted to in its native mode from just about anywhere, and it's easy to use, I wouldn't care any more about what O.S. it was running then I would care what O.S. my phone is using.

Besides, who wants to run AutoCAD or Photo Shop from a 10" screen using a wheel mouse and a shrunken keyboard?

If I want to run professional Apps like that, I would much rather run them from a real computer. Even then I could just run them when I need them as a service, especially if I don't use them enough to justify buying them or paying for constant upgrades.

I'm not going to burn my desktop; but having a little two pound portable PC that could do all that for a couple hundred bucks by around 2012 would be cool.

I don't see any reason why an ARM processor wouldn't be plenty.

Linux is a light weight O.S. with light weight Apps. It is highly customizable, isn't a resource hog and most of what the Netbook will be doing is just sending and receiving commands from the Host machine.

That makes for low power consumption and long battery life. For some people it's all they will need. For others it augments what they already have.

Now, if they could just figure out a way so I could fold it up unobtrusively and clip it on my hip so I could ditch this damn phone