Build Advice Assistance with building my first ever AMD-based rig ?

[monere]

Hi, everyone!

After 30+ years of Intel (which I'm still a fan of, don't get me wrong) I've decided to switch to a full AMD build, just to spice things up a little and see what the craze with AMD is as I'm seeing a lot of folks being desperate with AMD. So, I said, hell yeah, let's do it! 5-10 years of trying AMD out won't hurt, so why not?

So anyway, after 3 days of researching and educating myself about AMD CPUs and GPUs, I still have some questions that I can't find the answers to, which is where I need your assistance with if you don't mind offering it.

I just don't know where to start asking the questions though because there's a total mess in my head right now, so bare with me please if I ask questions that don't make sense yet. I promise to clear up any confusion you might have as a result of my own confusion LOL. So anyway...

1. I've read somewhere (I don't remember where, though as I've frequented a lot of sites over the last 3 days, picking up information from all sorts of sources, and I really don't know where I've heard this, but I remember clearly that I've read somewhere) that AMD-based builds are more finnicky than Intel ones. In what way they are finnicky I can't tell (I don't even think that I've read the full explanation of this, all I remember is this bit of info).

The person(s) mentioning this could have meant that AMD builds are more unstable than Intel, or they could have meant that they're more sensitive to bottlenecks, or whatever. I really don't remember but I know for sure that I've read somewhere that when putting AMD builds together you need to pay more attention to the components and their compatibilities than with Intel. Yeah, I think that this was what those guys meant...

Is this true, and if yes, in which way??

2. Since I'd like to try new things out, after 30+ years of using Intel and ATX systems I'd like for once to go with mATX system this time, but after doing a bit of research I understood that not all GPUs fit into a mATX case (which makes sense, obviously, but this doesn't mean that I'm not left disgruntled because I have to give up the delicious RX 6700 XT GPUs that I found but which, sadly, require 3 slots to be installed, slots that I simply do not have inside of a 288 x 288 mATX case)...

So, my question is: can someone please recommend the best AMD GPU that fits inside of a mATX case and which is $600 TOPS (yeah, my budget is limited, and GPUs prices are insane nowadays, so I can't afford paying more than $600 for a GPU, but I'd prefer paying even less than $600, around $400-450 if it's possible. But up to $600 is OK really, it just needs to fit into my mATX).

Also, something else that I've desperately searched for are GPUs that have a bandwidth of at least 192 bits. Why 192 bits? I can't say as I really have no particular use for the GPU in mind besides the usual video gaming, internet browsing, maybe some video editing every now and then. But I just feel comfortable knowing that my GPU is at least 192 bits, but alas, the prices for 192 bits and higher are out of this world.

I guess I'll settle for less than 192 bits if there's no other options, but if there is, then can you please recommend the best GPU that meets all of these criteria:

• not Nvidia (AMD or something else, I don't care as long as it's not Nvidia)
• fits inside of mATX case
• at least 192 bits bandwidth
• under $600

And speaking of technical details, can someone explain to me what on Earth Stream Processors and Compute Units are? After 20 years of using Nvidia I got used to its Cores thingy (which is something like a CPU or something), but I've never heard of Stream Processors before, so I have no idea what these are or how important they are when shopping around for AMD GPUs. And the Compute Units, too. What the heck are these things?

Actually, what is Memory Speed, too? Is it the same as the Memory Frequency spec in Nvidia GPUs, or is it something else? And if it's something else, which one is the Memory Frequency then?? I'm so confused...

For example, I'm currently using a GTX 660 GPU (yes, I know that it's old, don't mock me please!) and for this GPU things are clear: its speed is 980 MHz, its capacity is 2GB and its RAM type is GDDR5. So clear!

But for the RX 6770 XT GPU there are things like Core Clocks, Memory Speed (is this the the same as Nvidia's Speed of 980 MHz??), Stream Processors, Compute Units... I really don't understand how to read these things...

And this brings me to point 3...

3. How do I get the best out of my computer in terms of compatibility and no bottlenecks if (we assume) that AMD is more finnicky, like the other guys said? For example, I know that if you buy a MoBo that doesn't support speeds higher than 3200 MHz, for example, there's no point in buying both CPU and RAM sticks that function over the 3200 MHz speed because your MoBo will simply not make use of the extra speeds offered by the CPU and RAM because it's not built like that. But how does the CPU's speed and RAM frequency affect each other?? By the way, I forgot to mention (and I apologize for this) that the current components I'm having in mind are these:

Gigabyte B550M-DS3H (Motherboard)
Ryzen 5 5600, or Ryzen 5 5500 (I haven't decided on the CPU yet, but feel free to recommend me the better of the 2)
2x16 GB Kingston Fury Renegade DDR4 CL16 3200MHz (RAM memory sticks)
1TB Crucial P3 Plus (SSD)
4TB Seagate Ironwolf Pro 7200RPM 256 MB Cache (HDD)
???? (GPU)

As you can see I've not decided on the GPU, PSU, and mATX case, but the PSU and case I can decide easily for myself after I have all components. But the GPU is giving me headaches because I don't know what works best with the other components and which also fits into mATX case and which is cheap.

Also, I'm not interested in any components that have anything AT ALL to do with overclocking, XMP and the alikes. I always prefer stability and flawlessness over crazy stuff in my computers, so I don't care even in the slightest about any component that even remotely mentions overclocking / XMP. Just so you guys know where I stand with regards to these latest and craziest technologies

Whew! That was a long one.... and I still don't feel like I've cleared all confusion that's in my head right now. But if I find the answers to these questions I have a feeling that I will have accomplished a lot, so please help me understand these things if it's not too much trouble for you.

Thanks in advance!

PS: ugh, I also forgot to mention that there's a big possibility that I might need to use this new build for AutoCAD (which version of AutoCAD I don't know yet, but let's assume the latest version), so this will probably require even more resources from my rig, right? So what CPU / GPU / RAM do you recommend in this case? Or maybe even a new MoBo? But I would love to keep this MoBo as I'm a big fan of Gigabyte and their anti-shock (anti power surge) capabilities. Given how often power surges happen here in my area (sometimes even multiple times within 1 hour) I would have destroyed my computer within a few short months had I not had a shock-resistant MoBo, which is why I prefer Gigabyte. But if you know that other manufacturers also have anti-shock MoBo, by all means, feel free to recommend them! Like I said, I'm in "trying new things out" mode, so I'll definitely have a look at new components if they meet my needs / requirements

 

[Eximo]

It is indeed confusing.

Intel has been amazingly consistent, with only a few low end chips technically featuring the previous architecture, but that only gets them so far since they switch sockets so often.

AMD with AM4 socket running so long, they do have 5 generations, but then it makes it difficult because the generation following on desktop is 7000 series, but isn't 7th generation. But then again, 4000 series isn't a 4th generation either, just a rebranded 3rd generation.

AMD motherboards actually work a little better as generational markers.

Zen/+ -> Zen2 -> Zen3 -> Zen4
B350 -> B450 - B550 -> B650/e
X370 -> X470-> X570 -> X670/e

 

[kerberos_20]

Zen/+ -> Zen2 -> Zen3 -> Zen4
B350 -> B450 - B550 -> B650/e
X370 -> X470-> X570 -> X670/e

almost, zen+ had b450/x470, zen2 b550/x570, zen 3 had nothing, just x570e which reduced few watts and its fanless

 

[Elezondo]

so, based on this info, every AMD CPU that starts with 5 is a generation 3 then (because it falls within the Zen3 category)?? But then you and @Elezondo are contradicting each other because (s)he says that everything that starts with 5 is a generation 5. Which one of you do I believe?

Whoa, @Eximo and I are saying the same thing. I never said 5xxx is a 5th generation Ryzen. All 5xxx chips, regardless if they are a Ryzen 3, Ryzen 5, Ryzen 7, or Ryzen 9 are the SAME generation: example being a Ryzen 5 5600X and a Ryzen 9 5950X are the same GENERATION, but two different performance tiers. A Ryzen 9 5950X and a Ryzen 9 7950X are the same performance TIER, but different generations.

 

[monere]

guys, GUYS! Can I please get an answer to my initial questions? Please?

I've gone over them once again now that I have a clearer mind, so I'll repost them here in a shorter, clearer form. So...

1) are there any incompatibilities between AMD components that I need to be aware of when building this new rig on mATX case?

All of the components that I've settled on initially (and which I mention in my OP) I am willing to replace with something else based on your advice / recommendations, the only thing that I wish to keep is the micro ATX case. So, no matter what components you recommend me (within my $1300-ish budget, obviously) I am willing to go with as long as they fit inside of the mATX case and they won't overheat or create any other issues.

2a) which is the best GPU for the rig I'm trying to build that meets all of these 4 criteria?

• it's not Nvidia
• under $600 (it can be over $600 if all other components add up to $1300-ish total costs)
• fits inside mATX case without overheating / causing issues to itself / other components
• at least 192 bits of bandwith (I can go lower than 192 bits if there's absolutely no other option)

2b) taking this GPU as an example:

https://www.msi.com/Graphics-Card/Radeon-RX-6700-XT-MECH-2X-12G-OC/Specification

Which one of these 3 specs of the above GPU is the equivalent of my current GPU's (GTX 660) 980 MHz speed:

• Stream Processors
• Core Clocks
• Memory Speed

3) leaving the best components aside, which AMD-based MoBo + CPU + GPU + RAM combo gives the best stability to this new rig, and which MoBo + CPU + GPU + RAM combo gets the best out of each one of these 4 components individually?

What I mean by "gets the best out of each component" I'm referring to which component I should pair up with which one of the other 3 in order to make the most of their frequencies, threads, lanes, capacities, and so on. Basically, which is the best MoBo + CPU + GPU + RAM combo for an all around AMD build that completely removes any potential bottlenecks.

Note that I'm not interested in any component that has anything to do with overcloaking, XMPs, boosting, and the alikes. I want something that just works flawlessly as it comes out of the production line.

Please ignore all of the previous discussions, and let's focus on these questions

Thanks!

 

[monere]

Whoa, @Eximo and I are saying the same thing. I never said 5xxx is a 5th generation Ryzen. All 5xxx chips, regardless if they are a Ryzen 3, Ryzen 5, Ryzen 7, or Ryzen 9 are the SAME generation: example being a Ryzen 5 5600X and a Ryzen 9 5950X are the same GENERATION, but two different performance tiers. A Ryzen 9 5950X and a Ryzen 9 7950X are the same performance TIER, but different generations.

so I misread then. My bad, but I got really confused

 

[Elezondo]

Then the initial advice given in the thread still stands, a 5700X will be a better processor than the 5600 or 5500. Comparing a GTX 660 to a RX 6700XT is pointless. The 6700XT is faster in every conceivable way.

 

[kerberos_20]

Which one of these 3 specs of the above GPU is the equivalent of my current GPU's (GTX 660) 980 MHz speed:

• Stream Processors
• Core Clocks
• Memory Speed

980mhz is core clock

stream processors are used for floating point calculations, which is what you see all that eye candy stuffs in games

 

[Thunder64]

I've settled on this case, but I don't mind changing it if you think that I need something different:
https://aqirys.com/product/bellatrix-pro

What do you mean by "in case papers"?? I'm not native English speaker so I'm not good at understanding nuances.



Budget.... hmm... I think it's around $1300, give or take. I've not figured the budget out just yet. Also, this purchase will happen anywhere between 45 and 90 days from now, I don't know the exact time, but it's definitely at least 45 days from now.

Regarding the microcenter, do you mean a computer assembly shop / computer vendor? Or what do you mean by microcenter? If that's what you mean then yes, there are dozens of them in my city (it's a pretty big city here in Romania so we have access to almost everything, but I prefer not to purchase my components offline because I'm a weakling of a man and sellers always cram all of their crap down my throat and I've had enough of this as I always end up paying more than what I initially budget for)



Good to know then! Because if all things being equal I'd obviously prefer to pay less

Regarding the stuff in your signature, I'm trying to follow the instructions but there's too much info in those threads that you link to so excuse me if for some reason I fail to comply with all of the rules.

So anyway, as per the instructions in your signature thread, here are the details:

Approximate Purchase Date: 45-90 days from now
Budget Range: $1300-ish for everything (shipping and other potential costs / taxes included in this price)
System Usage from Most to Least Important: Multitasking, entertainment (watch movies, sports streaming online, watch youtube, etc), Gaming, AutoCad, office related stuff (word, excel)
Are you buying a monitor: nope

Parts to Upgrade: no upgrading, just replacing the entire computer with a new one

Do you need to buy OS: no (I'm switching to Linux)
Preferred Website(s) for Parts: no website in particular, but I'd prefer to buy the components from local websites instead of Amazon. But I'm not sure about this yet, I will see at the time of purchase what's available and where...

Location: Craiova, Dolj, Romania (I will put the PC together myself)
Parts Preferences: AMD all the way...

Overclocking: never
SLI or Crossfire: I don't know what these are, so no?
Your Monitor Resolution: 1920x1080

Additional Comments: a quiet PC would be great indeed, but not if I have to compromise on the temperatures because it gets helluva hot here in South Romania during summers, my computer will constantly sit in 30+ degrees Celsius for months during summer, and it's pretty dusty too here in my local area, so high temperatures + insane amounts of dust are the biggest problems for a PC.

And Most Importantly, Why Are You Upgrading: I'm not upgrading, I'm fully replacing my current PC. As for reasons, I don't know what reasons to invoke other than to keep up with technology and because I'm interested in trying AMD out after such a long time with Intel and Nvidia. It's time for a change

Include a list of any parts you have already selected with descriptively labeled links for parts.

Gigabyte B550M-DS3H rev 1.4
https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/B550M-DS3H-rev-14/sp#sp

AMD Ryzen 5 5600 3.5GHz Socket AM4 Box 100-100000927BOX
https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/amd-ryzen-5-5600

AMD Radeon RX 6700 XT
https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/amd-radeon-rx-6700-xt

SSD Crucial P3 Plus 1TB PCI Express 3.0 x4 M.2 2280
https://www.crucial.com/ssd/p3-plus/CT1000P3PSSD8

HDD NAS Seagate Ironwolf Pro 4TB SATA3 7200rpm 256MB 3.5inch
https://www.newegg.com/seagate-ironwolf-pro-st4000ne001-4tb/p/N82E16822184797

Kingston FURY Renegade 32GB DDR4 3200MHz CL16 Dual Channel
https://www.newegg.com/kingston-32gb/p/0RN-001J-00ZX5

AQIRYS Bellatrix Pro
https://aqirys.com/product/bellatrix-pro

Inter-Tech Argus RGB-650 650W II RGB PSU
https://www.inter-tech.de/3435/Argus_RGB-650W_CM_II_EN.html

I will give a shot. I would go with 5700X. It a cool chip to run as it just 65W TDP, same as 5600/5600X. I would get DDR 3600MHz as that is typically the best for Zen 3 but that is not a deal killer. However, that case does not support m.2 SSD's, which likely will be for you, considering the SSD you listed is an m.2 one.

 

[monere]

I will give a shot. I would go with 5700X. It a cool chip to run as it just 65W TDP, same as 5600/5600X. I would get DDR 3600MHz as that is typically the best for Zen 3 but that is not a deal killer. However, that case does not support m.2 SSD's, which likely will be for you, considering the SSD you listed is an m.2 one.

but the question is will my CPU and MoBo make use of the RAM's 3600 MHz speeds? Because all 3 CPUs that you've mentioned say on their specs page that they only use up to 3200 MHz frequencies, this was one of my initial questions

As for the m.2 SSD I genuinely don't understand why you say that the case doesn't support this type of SSD since the SSD will be slotted into the MoBo, and it's thin enough to not inconvenience anything, much less the case. Am I not knowing what SSDs are ?!?

And just in case that you didn't see what SSD I am referring to, here's the link to the product:
https://www.crucial.com/ssd/p3-plus/CT1000P3PSSD8

Is this not a SSD that slots into the MoBo?

 

[Eximo]

Not sure what Thunder64 is talking about. Really only a few SSD types out there, and that chassis supports 2.5" and 3.5" drives. Yes, M.2 drives connect directly to the motherboard.

Official supported memory speeds are guaranteed. Any speed beyond that is considered an overclock.

So 1600Mhz (3200) is fully supported. 1800Mhz (3600) normally works fine. 1900 and 2000 Mhz are questionable, so most people stop at 3600 to avoid problems.

The reason this is important is because Ryzen CPUs have a separate chip responsible for the memory and I/O, and your base memory frequency sets the speed the CPU chip and memory controller communicate at. And if your chip has multiple CPU dies (5900X/5950X for example) then also the speed the CPUs communicate to each other at.

 

[logainofhades]

I will give a shot. I would go with 5700X. It a cool chip to run as it just 65W TDP, same as 5600/5600X. I would get DDR 3600MHz as that is typically the best for Zen 3 but that is not a deal killer. However, that case does not support m.2 SSD's, which likely will be for you, considering the SSD you listed is an m.2 one.

M.2's install on the motherboard, not the case.

 

[monere]

Not sure what Thunder64 is talking about. Really only a few SSD types out there, and that chassis supports 2.5" and 3.5" drives. Yes, M.2 drives connect directly to the motherboard.

that's what I thought, too. But was about to go crazy if the answer was different LOL

So 1600Mhz (3200) is fully supported. 1800Mhz (3600) normally works fine. 1900 and 2000 Mhz are questionable, so most people stop at 3600 to avoid problems.

I honestly don't know how to interpret this sentence. Like, why did you halve the numbers outside of brackets? And how come that 1800 MHz and 3600 MHz are ok, but 1900 and 2000 aren't ?!?

The reason this is important is because Ryzen CPUs have a separate chip responsible for the memory and I/O, and your base memory frequency sets the speed the CPU chip and memory controller communicate at. And if your chip has multiple CPU dies (5900X/5950X for example) then also the speed the CPUs communicate to each other at.

I was just about to shoot several questions related to this paragraph alone, but it would have probably enraged you, so I'll not ask them

Apparently, AMD CPUs function a lot differently to what I was used in Intel, so I guess I need to do some reading upon how they function, but I don't have the time at the moment. Maybe when I get closer to the purchase....

 

[logainofhades]

You really do not want to go beyond DDR4 3600, with AM4. 3733 is still ok, but not worth the cost. The infinity fabric clock is tied to ram clocks. You want to keep those clocks at a 1:1 ratio, or it will induce latency. So the infinity fabric will be at 1800, as is the ram, with 3600. Ram speed is 1800, but as it is a dual data rate, it gets labeled as 3600. Only a really lucky few manage to get the infinity fabric up to 1900 or higher.

 

[monere]

You really do not want to go beyond DDR4 3600, with AM4. 3733 is still ok, but not worth the cost. The infinity fabric clock is tied to ram clocks. You want to keep those clocks at a 1:1 ratio, or it will induce latency. So the infinity fabric will be at 1800, as is the ram, with 3600. Ram speed is 1800, but as it is a dual data rate, it gets labeled as 3600. Only a really lucky few manage to get the infinity fabric up to 1900 or higher.

I see...

Thanks for clearing this up!

 

[Thunder64]

Yes, I had a brain fart. You can use an m.2 SSD.