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arthemos
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- Apr 4, 2009
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[citation][nom]randomizer[/nom]You do realise that video would be about a week long?[/citation]
No it wouldn't.It would take 5-10 minutes depending on how many clips you wonna put together and in what form you wonna put them together.I didn't say to abandon the performance charts, they should be kept
used as summaries. In this review for example, you put gtx280, gtx285, gtx260+, 4870 1gig, 4890 all together in a video, and put 4870x2,gtx295
and sli / cf configurations in a second video.....And at the bottom of the page you put a single chart that shows the average and minimum fps of all the charts in the tested game.
No it wouldn't.It would take 5-10 minutes depending on how many clips you wonna put together and in what form you wonna put them together.I didn't say to abandon the performance charts, they should be kept
used as summaries. In this review for example, you put gtx280, gtx285, gtx260+, 4870 1gig, 4890 all together in a video, and put 4870x2,gtx295
and sli / cf configurations in a second video.....And at the bottom of the page you put a single chart that shows the average and minimum fps of all the charts in the tested game.
arthemos
Distinguished
- Apr 4, 2009
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[citation][nom]randomizer[/nom]You do realise that video would be about a week long?[/citation]
No it wouldn't.It would take 5-10 minutes depending on how many clips you wonna put together and in what form you wonna put them together.I didn't say to abandon the performance charts, they should be kept
used as summaries. In this review for example, you put gtx280, gtx285, gtx260+, 4870 1gig, 4890 all together in a video, and put 4870x2,gtx295
and sli / cf configurations in a second video.....And at the bottom of the page you put a single chart that shows the average and minimum fps of all the cards in the tested game.
No it wouldn't.It would take 5-10 minutes depending on how many clips you wonna put together and in what form you wonna put them together.I didn't say to abandon the performance charts, they should be kept
used as summaries. In this review for example, you put gtx280, gtx285, gtx260+, 4870 1gig, 4890 all together in a video, and put 4870x2,gtx295
and sli / cf configurations in a second video.....And at the bottom of the page you put a single chart that shows the average and minimum fps of all the cards in the tested game.
arthemos
Distinguished
- Apr 4, 2009
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[citation][nom]jtt283[/nom]Arthemos, it appears that what you're asking to see in a video is what they are describing and graphing in the article. Are you saying that THG might be liars, so without the video they cannot be trusted?[/citation]
Yes.as i mentioned in my previous comment, i don't think this review includes anything genuine in it.and im not saying that because im comparing those number to the ones at xbitlabs, im comparing those numbers to what i have personally seen during my experience with these cards. This review is fabricated in a way that gives Nvidia cards advantages over ATI cards.
[citation][nom]jtt283[/nom]I understand your comments about not biting the hand that feeds you, but even subtle pressure on reviewers to distort facts will not prevent the ultimate truth from coming out. When it does, if it differs remarkably from reviews, then the reviewing site will take a credibility hit, and the vendor may lose business for dishonesty. An honest review, however, is one way of letting the market know how a new product should be priced, i.e. where on the totem pole it sits. As such, accurate reviewing may bruise a few egos, but doesn't do any real damage.[/citation]
Your right. But his/their job is to deliver accurate and honest reviews to us.IF he/they can't do that, then they are not capable of handling his/their jobs.
Let me suggest a solution here.Im aware that those gentlemen are professional in what they do, and the amount of information that they provide us with is incredible.Those gentlemen need funding to be able to continue doing what they do without any negative or positive effect
from those BIG companies.
I don't think that tomshardware should offer their services for free anymore.I think that it's about time for us to pay for what we get from this site.In the same way that you pay for any other constant service.Like a newspaper or journal subscription.
Yes.as i mentioned in my previous comment, i don't think this review includes anything genuine in it.and im not saying that because im comparing those number to the ones at xbitlabs, im comparing those numbers to what i have personally seen during my experience with these cards. This review is fabricated in a way that gives Nvidia cards advantages over ATI cards.
[citation][nom]jtt283[/nom]I understand your comments about not biting the hand that feeds you, but even subtle pressure on reviewers to distort facts will not prevent the ultimate truth from coming out. When it does, if it differs remarkably from reviews, then the reviewing site will take a credibility hit, and the vendor may lose business for dishonesty. An honest review, however, is one way of letting the market know how a new product should be priced, i.e. where on the totem pole it sits. As such, accurate reviewing may bruise a few egos, but doesn't do any real damage.[/citation]
Your right. But his/their job is to deliver accurate and honest reviews to us.IF he/they can't do that, then they are not capable of handling his/their jobs.
Let me suggest a solution here.Im aware that those gentlemen are professional in what they do, and the amount of information that they provide us with is incredible.Those gentlemen need funding to be able to continue doing what they do without any negative or positive effect
from those BIG companies.
I don't think that tomshardware should offer their services for free anymore.I think that it's about time for us to pay for what we get from this site.In the same way that you pay for any other constant service.Like a newspaper or journal subscription.
- Jul 24, 2006
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[citation][nom]arthemos[/nom]Yes.as i mentioned in my previous comment, i don't think this review includes anything genuine in it.and im not saying that because im comparing those number to the ones at xbitlabs, im comparing those numbers to what i have personally seen during my experience with these cards. This review is fabricated in a way that gives Nvidia cards advantages over ATI cards.[/citation]
So perhaps you could point out where the fabrication is, since you have "personal experience." Unless I've missed something, you've made lots of accusations but are yet to provide any basis for them other than your own experiences. Perhaps your experiences were fabricated? How do we know?
So perhaps you could point out where the fabrication is, since you have "personal experience." Unless I've missed something, you've made lots of accusations but are yet to provide any basis for them other than your own experiences. Perhaps your experiences were fabricated? How do we know?
arthemos
Distinguished
- Apr 4, 2009
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[citation][nom]randomizer[/nom]So perhaps you could point out where the fabrication is, since you have "personal experience." Unless I've missed something, you've made lots of accusations but are yet to provide any basis for them other than your own experiences. Perhaps your experiences were fabricated? How do we know?[/citation]
Aside from these charts:
[ur=http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/radeonhd4890_040209033751/18715.png] Fallout 3[/url]
Far Cry 2
Left 4 Dead
GRID
Stalker Clear Sky
Crysis WarHead
[urlhttp://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video/radeon-hd4890/codww.png]COD5[/url]
Im well aware of how these cards perform in particular games.For example, i know that ATI cards do noticeably better in Stalker clear sky, Fallout 3, Grid, and since the release of the CCC 9.2 driver, in Crysis warhead and COD5.....
I think that nvidiaو with the release of their new card, distributed some 10 000$ on the 'sites' not including the ones that nvidia owns, to make their gtx275 look better or win.
That's nothing compared to what they will gain considering what happened in the days of the 3870 and the 8800gt when the 8800gt was "supposedly" slightly faster. Nvidia, in that era, sold over 3 million 8800gts vs
380 thousand 3870 AMD sold, even though the 3870 was considerably cheaper.
This is how such businesses take place these days, by bribing, cheating and fabricating, Using the 'Media' for that.
Aside from these charts:
[ur=http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/radeonhd4890_040209033751/18715.png] Fallout 3[/url]
Far Cry 2
Left 4 Dead
GRID
Stalker Clear Sky
Crysis WarHead
[urlhttp://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video/radeon-hd4890/codww.png]COD5[/url]
Im well aware of how these cards perform in particular games.For example, i know that ATI cards do noticeably better in Stalker clear sky, Fallout 3, Grid, and since the release of the CCC 9.2 driver, in Crysis warhead and COD5.....
I think that nvidiaو with the release of their new card, distributed some 10 000$ on the 'sites' not including the ones that nvidia owns, to make their gtx275 look better or win.
That's nothing compared to what they will gain considering what happened in the days of the 3870 and the 8800gt when the 8800gt was "supposedly" slightly faster. Nvidia, in that era, sold over 3 million 8800gts vs
380 thousand 3870 AMD sold, even though the 3870 was considerably cheaper.
This is how such businesses take place these days, by bribing, cheating and fabricating, Using the 'Media' for that.
- Jul 24, 2006
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You're linking to another site again which for all we know could have "fabricated" results. You haven't proved that your experiences aren't fabricated either. Therefore we are back to square one. The info has been provided, you can take it or you can leave it, but if you have nothing better of your own to show us then perhaps you shouldn't be dismissing 2 weeks of someone's work because you don't think it's right.[citation][nom]arthemos[/nom]I think that nvidiaو with the release of their new card, distributed some 10 000$ on the 'sites' not including the ones that nvidia owns, to make their gtx275 look better or win.[/citation]
Again with the "paid ad" stuff. You "think" do you? So have you got any real evidence to show?
[citation][nom]arthemos[/nom]Nvidia, in that era, sold over 3 million 8800gts vs 380 thousand 3870 AMD sold, even though the 3870 was considerably cheaper.[/citation]
Don't forget that the majority of PCs bought are pre-builts, and it's quite possible that NVIDIA has a stronger hand with the OEMs than AMD; in the same way Intel has a stronger hand than AMD.
[citation][nom]arthemos[/nom]This is how such businesses take place these days, by bribing, cheating and fabricating, Using the 'Media' for that.[/citation]
I am in agreement that they certainly try to make their products appear better than they are, any shareholder-respecting business would. However, you clearly have never been part of a tech website if you think that NVIDIA pays for everything. What they will try to do instead is control the benchmarks, especially right after NDA lifts. As I mentioned before, they did this with the GTX295 (I think that card), mandating about 5 benchmarks where it beat the HD4870X2 (except Crysis at 2560x1600 where it failed bad). I think all but one website published benchmarks as NVIDIA wanted, but many published more benchmarks once they were allowed, and stated in the first review that NVIDIA were in control of what was shown.
Again with the "paid ad" stuff. You "think" do you? So have you got any real evidence to show?
[citation][nom]arthemos[/nom]Nvidia, in that era, sold over 3 million 8800gts vs 380 thousand 3870 AMD sold, even though the 3870 was considerably cheaper.[/citation]
Don't forget that the majority of PCs bought are pre-builts, and it's quite possible that NVIDIA has a stronger hand with the OEMs than AMD; in the same way Intel has a stronger hand than AMD.
[citation][nom]arthemos[/nom]This is how such businesses take place these days, by bribing, cheating and fabricating, Using the 'Media' for that.[/citation]
I am in agreement that they certainly try to make their products appear better than they are, any shareholder-respecting business would. However, you clearly have never been part of a tech website if you think that NVIDIA pays for everything. What they will try to do instead is control the benchmarks, especially right after NDA lifts. As I mentioned before, they did this with the GTX295 (I think that card), mandating about 5 benchmarks where it beat the HD4870X2 (except Crysis at 2560x1600 where it failed bad). I think all but one website published benchmarks as NVIDIA wanted, but many published more benchmarks once they were allowed, and stated in the first review that NVIDIA were in control of what was shown.
arthemos
Distinguished
- Apr 4, 2009
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[citation][nom]randomizer[/nom]You're linking to another site again which for all we know could have "fabricated" results. You haven't proved that your experiences aren't fabricated either. Therefore we are back to square one. The info has been provided, you can take it or you can leave it, but if you have nothing better of your own to show us then perhaps you shouldn't be dismissing 2 weeks of someone's work because you don't think it's right.[/citation]
You are definitely right here.I don't have a single concrete evidence that can prove what i claim.I think your aware of what happened to MR. Kyle at hardocp when he wrote that the gts250 is a renamed G92 chip.He was fired.Can you tell me why?
Becasue the site he works for is owned by nvidia.Not sponsored, not connected....It's owned by nvidia.Now consider this, a site like hardocp, which is relatively an old site, is owned by nvidia.
Now you may, or may not, be aware that every "operating" site must be funded in order to keep going.This means that these journalists.. .reviewers....need to get paid every month....
Now where from the money comes?
I would like you to think about that deeply.
You are definitely right here.I don't have a single concrete evidence that can prove what i claim.I think your aware of what happened to MR. Kyle at hardocp when he wrote that the gts250 is a renamed G92 chip.He was fired.Can you tell me why?
Becasue the site he works for is owned by nvidia.Not sponsored, not connected....It's owned by nvidia.Now consider this, a site like hardocp, which is relatively an old site, is owned by nvidia.
Now you may, or may not, be aware that every "operating" site must be funded in order to keep going.This means that these journalists.. .reviewers....need to get paid every month....
Now where from the money comes?
I would like you to think about that deeply.
- Jul 24, 2006
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[H] is hardly the most reputable site, their reviews are simply bad. Forget bias, they are simply bad. They draw odd conclusions from benchmarks that clearly have bad methodologies. I am biased against them though, I simply don't like how they do things.
[citation][nom]arthemos[/nom]I would like you to think about that deeply.[/citation]
I don't need to, I know the answer.
[citation][nom]arthemos[/nom]I would like you to think about that deeply.[/citation]
I don't need to, I know the answer.
jimmysmitty
Champion
- Oct 5, 2007
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[citation][nom]eklipz330[/nom]i usually don't bitch and moan about them not having enough test gpu's, but i'd really like to see that sapphire 2gb 4870 up there, seeing how its in the same price range as the 4890... any of these cards would suffice for me, 1680*1050 does save you a pretty penny[/citation]
I would like to see the Sapphire 4870 1GB Toxic in there. Its factory set at 780MHz core, 4GHz memory.
I would like to see the Sapphire 4870 1GB Toxic in there. Its factory set at 780MHz core, 4GHz memory.
MasterDOOM
Distinguished
- May 30, 2008
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Guys this ATI RADEON 4890 is More good to my ATI 4870x2 2 Gb ? Bravo ATI
AMD - ATI Radeon Best Coice
AMD - ATI Radeon Best Coice
elitewolverine
Distinguished
- Apr 8, 2009
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well i just purchased a amd phenom II 940be and 4gigs of 1066mhz and of course this card...once i get all of them in hopefully built and ready to go on thursday ill post some benchmarks for the AMD/ATI fans out there (im not a intel fan), plus my goal is to get the 940 up to 4ghz and the gpu to 1ghz, well see hopefully my new case and cpu cooler will come in handy to handle the heat
Why did you guy overclock the 4890 on 3 different sites the overclocked 4890 traded punches with the nvdia 285 i agree with the last post this is quite a fishy review hmmm...? maybe tom's hardware is in with nvidia??
Hey. why are you benchmarking GTA-IV by frame rate? frame rate on this game is only managed by the CPU.
To benchmark the game for the graphic cards performance you need to take a look at the texture streaming speed and not on the FPS.
is this the first time tom's hardware is benching a GTA game?
To benchmark the game for the graphic cards performance you need to take a look at the texture streaming speed and not on the FPS.
is this the first time tom's hardware is benching a GTA game?
Nice Article, really helped me decide on a new GPU for my build. I took everything with a grain of salt considering I found the 4890 for 200 even with instant rebates, and that price is good enough that the small gain brings me over to it.
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