Avoid canine horde

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Hi people,

I'm planning to build a wall deck with AUS CEL THA (Yitzak :]) with
sniper rifles.

I'm really scared about canine horde, since sniper rifle special forces
to strike with it, so I can't dodge canine hordes, that will ruin my
deck. Any proposals of how can be Canine horde avoided when you have
used sniper rifle's special?

With Backstab + Dragon breath rounds at least your victim would go to
torpor, but this seems a drastic solution xD.
Another one could be Dragon breath rounds + Rötschreck, but I don't
know if this works due to "Only usable before resolution of a gun's
strike" clause vs canine horde's first strike. LSJ? If this can be
used, it could be the solution.

Thank you.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

rötschreck would send the opposing vamp to torpor before the cainine
horde strikes. since rötschreck is resolved before strike resolution.
best wishes
//Alex Ek
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

> 1) Before Determine Range
2) Determine Range
3) Strike: Combat Ends
4) Strike: Dodge
5) First Strike
6) Strike (normal)
7) Damage Resolution
8) Additional Strikes (another Damage Resolution follows each
additional
strike)
9) Press


?


> Rotschreck is "Strike: Combat Ends"


??

(rötshreck just says 'Combat ends' its not a strike)


> If you have AUS, you can spend 1 blood for Primal Instincts (Sabbat
War -
common?) and cancel the Canine Hordes strike as it is announced. No-one
has
more than 1 or 2 Canine Hordes in a deck, unless you have an odd
metagame.
It's better than burning your Sniper Rifle with Dragon's Breath Rounds
and
Rotschereck.

???

plsease read the cards carefully. its useful against canine horde, but
not 'that' usefull...

Primal Instincts
Type: Combat
Requires: Auspex
Cost: 1 blood
[aus] Strike: dodge.
[AUS] Only usable by the acting vampire after the opposing minion has
chosen his or her strike. Cancel this acting vampire's strike and
choose a new one.



> btw... you still have no defense against Drawing Out the Beast or
Frenzy,
which are far more common. You'll need at least 1 Sire's Index Finger
(Black
Hand - rare).

frenzy is far more common then canine horde?


> unless you have an odd metagame

agree...
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

>
> - Direct Intervention the Canine Horde
>

That's not the soultion for me, since I hate DI :].

> - Yitzak plays an Aura Reading at inferior before setting range with
Sniper
> Rifle. If you see a Canine Horde, don't use Sniper Rifle's range
setting
> ability, but dodge or strike to end combat instead.
> (This should be legal, since LSJ has ruled: "You set range during
the
> determine range step [when blocking and using Sniper Rifle].")
>

Interesting.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Aura Reading and pack some Sideslip. It's got dodge at inferior and 1
point of prevention against, say, Carrion Crows at superior Celerity.
Most environments with Canine Hordes will feature the crows as well,
after all.


Regards,

Patrick
Columbus, OH
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

>
> Canine Hordes occurs at "First Strike". Rotschreck is "Strike: Combat
Ends",
> so Rotschereck resolves first (Canine Hordes does not occur). Any
dodge also
> occurs before "First Strike".
>
The problem is that I don't know if this can be played with Dragon
Breath Rounds, since it must be played when resolving my strike. If
Canine horde is played by the acting minion (as I spect, usually), it
resolves before I can play Dragon Breath Rounds, destroying my sniper
rifle, so then I can't play anything.
>
> btw... you still have no defense against Drawing Out the Beast or
Frenzy,
> which are far more common. You'll need at least 1 Sire's Index Finger
(Black
> Hand - rare).

1 will put a copy of Sire's Index Finger in the deck. And 2 copies of
Chiram's Hold :].
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

> frenzy is far more common then canine horde?
I think (hope) that he is refering to Terror Frenzy.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

> ¿Sire's Index Finger?

i usually dont like such prayer cards (i hope you dont put more then 2
in your deck), but on the other side he has THA so he can fetch it with
a magic. works for me...
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

> He declares Canine Horde, you must declare Sniper Rifle. You play DBR
and
> then Rotschreck. He goes to Torpor, you keep your SR.

Perfect 😀.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

> 4) Combat Ends/Dodge (Since Dodge now protects against S:CE)

What? Are you saying that if I play dodge against a S:CE, combat
continues??¿
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

This is the order of combat (This also usually resolves all combat
disputes):

1) Before Determine Range
2) Determine Range
3) Strike: Combat Ends
4) Strike: Dodge
5) First Strike
6) Strike (normal)
7) Damage Resolution
8) Additional Strikes (another Damage Resolution follows each additional
strike)
9) Press

Canine Hordes occurs at "First Strike". Rotschreck is "Strike: Combat Ends",
so Rotschereck resolves first (Canine Hordes does not occur). Any dodge also
occurs before "First Strike".

If you have AUS, you can spend 1 blood for Primal Instincts (Sabbat War -
common?) and cancel the Canine Hordes strike as it is announced. No-one has
more than 1 or 2 Canine Hordes in a deck, unless you have an odd metagame.
It's better than burning your Sniper Rifle with Dragon's Breath Rounds and
Rotschereck.

btw... you still have no defense against Drawing Out the Beast or Frenzy,
which are far more common. You'll need at least 1 Sire's Index Finger (Black
Hand - rare).

-Vinnie!


"Papipo" <papipo@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1107707262.528373.87830@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Hi people,

I'm planning to build a wall deck with AUS CEL THA (Yitzak :]) with
sniper rifles.

I'm really scared about canine horde, since sniper rifle special forces
to strike with it, so I can't dodge canine hordes, that will ruin my
deck. Any proposals of how can be Canine horde avoided when you have
used sniper rifle's special?

With Backstab + Dragon breath rounds at least your victim would go to
torpor, but this seems a drastic solution xD.
Another one could be Dragon breath rounds + Rötschreck, but I don't
know if this works due to "Only usable before resolution of a gun's
strike" clause vs canine horde's first strike. LSJ? If this can be
used, it could be the solution.

Thank you.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 12:18:29 -0500, "Vincent Crisafulli"
<vac999@netcarrier.com> wrote:

>If you have AUS, you can spend 1 blood for Primal Instincts (Sabbat War -
>common?) and cancel the Canine Hordes strike as it is announced.

No, you cannot.

If blocking and setting range with a Sniper Rifle, you cannot play
Primal Instincts at all.

"Only usable by the acting vampire"

http://monger.vekn.org/showcard.html?ID=608


In any case, it only cancel's your own strike and allows you to choose
a new one. A good example of using this effectively is Striking with
a Combat Ends card to convince your opponent to only strike hands, or
wave at long range, then playing Primal Instincts to change your
strike to something that does aggravated damage as you know your
opponent will not be dodging or ending combat themselves.

See also:

http://www.thelasombra.com/decks/primal_instincts.htm



Carpe noctem.

Lasombra

http://www.TheLasombra.com
Your best online source for information about V:TES.
Now also featuring individual card sales and sales
of booster and starter box displays.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

> - Give Yitzak *two* Sniper Rifles. So you break one? Big deal.
>

But the one that gets destroyed is the one that he was committed to using
and therefore he still doesn't strike.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

> 3) Strike: Combat Ends
> 4) Strike: Dodge

Actually, it's

3) Declare Strike
4) Combat Ends/Dodge (Since Dodge now protects against S:CE)
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

> > Canine Hordes occurs at "First Strike". Rotschreck is "Strike: Combat
> > Ends", so Rotschereck resolves first (Canine Hordes does not occur).
> > Any dodge also occurs before "First Strike".
> >

> The problem is that I don't know if this can be played with Dragon
> Breath Rounds, since it must be played when resolving my strike.

No, it must be used any time *before* the gun's strike (Card Text).

> If Canine horde is played by the acting minion (as I spect, usually), it
> resolves before I can play Dragon Breath Rounds, destroying my sniper
> rifle, so then I can't play anything.
>

He declares Canine Horde, you must declare Sniper Rifle. You play DBR and
then Rotschreck. He goes to Torpor, you keep your SR.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

> > 4) Combat Ends/Dodge (Since Dodge now protects against S:CE)
>
> What? Are you saying that if I play dodge against a S:CE, combat
> continues??¿
>

No, that if you play Dodge against Catatonic Fear, Meld with the Land, or
Oubliette, they will not affect you. Combat will still end, but you will
not take damage, untap, or burn blood/life as apropriate.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Papipo" <papipo@gmail.com> writes:

> Hi people,
>
> I'm planning to build a wall deck with AUS CEL THA (Yitzak :]) with
> sniper rifles.
>
> I'm really scared about canine horde, since sniper rifle special forces
> to strike with it, so I can't dodge canine hordes, that will ruin my
> deck. Any proposals of how can be Canine horde avoided when you have
> used sniper rifle's special?


- Direct Intervention the Canine Horde

- Yitzak plays an Aura Reading at inferior before setting range with Sniper
Rifle. If you see a Canine Horde, don't use Sniper Rifle's range setting
ability, but dodge or strike to end combat instead.
(This should be legal, since LSJ has ruled: "You set range during the
determine range step [when blocking and using Sniper Rifle].")

- Give Yitzak *two* Sniper Rifles. So you break one? Big deal.


--
hg@ "If you can't offend part of your audience,
iki.fi there is no point in being an artist at all." -Hakim Bey
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Vincent Crisafulli" <vac999@netcarrier.com> writes:

> If you have AUS, you can spend 1 blood for Primal Instincts (Sabbat War -
> common?) and cancel the Canine Hordes strike as it is announced.


No, you can't. You can use Primal Instincts at superior to cancel your
*own* strike and choose another, and only if you're acting.


Primal Instincts [Sabbat:C, SW:C/PT]
Cardtype: Combat
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Auspex
[aus] Strike: dodge.
[AUS] Only usable by the acting vampire after the opposing minion has chosen
his or her strike. Cancel this acting vampire's strike and choose a new one.



--
hg@ "If you can't offend part of your audience,
iki.fi there is no point in being an artist at all." -Hakim Bey
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Papipo <papipo@gmail.com> wrote:
: The problem is that I don't know if this can be played with Dragon
: Breath Rounds, since it must be played when resolving my strike. If
: Canine horde is played by the acting minion (as I spect, usually), it
: resolves before I can play Dragon Breath Rounds, destroying my sniper
: rifle, so then I can't play anything.

Dragon's Breath Rounds
Card Text:
Ammo

Only usable before resolution of a gun's strike. That gun inflicts +2
aggravated damage each strike for the remainder of this combat. Burn the
gun after strike resolution. This is an ammo card. No more than one ammo
card can be used on a gun each combat.

Rotschreck
Card Text:

Out-of-Turn.

Put this card on a vampire when an opposing minion attempts to inflict
aggravated damage on him or her, whether the damage would be
successfully inflicted or not. Combat ends. This vampire is tapped and
sent to torpor. This vampire does not untap as normal. During this
vampire's next untap phase, burn this card.

....

So. You block, declare range to long. Active Vampire plays Canine Horde,
you shoot and play Dragon's Breath Rounds (before or after, doesn't
matter). You're now attempting to inflict aggravated damage. Whether
you're going to be hit first by the Canine Horde doesn't matter when you
play Rotschreck.

Down goes the opposing Vampire, Canine Horde never resolves. Strike
resolution is never reached, so the gun wont be burned. Iirc that's the
way it's handled in all similar cases, but do correct me if I'm wrong.

//T
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On 6 Feb 2005 11:48:47 -0800, "Papipo" <papipo@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>> 4) Combat Ends/Dodge (Since Dodge now protects against S:CE)
>
>What? Are you saying that if I play dodge against a S:CE, combat
>continues??¿

No, but if there are consequences as a result of the S:CE (namely
Catatonic Fear and Riposte), then those effects are dodged. If S:CE
resolved before Dodge, they wouldn't be.

Morgan Vening
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

denis wrote:

> i usually dont like such prayer cards (i hope you dont put more then 2
> in your deck), but on the other side he has THA so he can fetch it with
> a magic. works for me...


Also, between CEL and AUS in addition to generic master card options,
he has lots of access to "flush tech", giving him the option to get rid of
excess copies easily. Plus it's a generally useful capability to build
into any
deck. And I think you're conflating "prayer" with "cornercase". It's
only a
prayer card if there are few copies (making your argument circular), nor
would
I call immunizing yourself against Rotshreck and weapon hosing (in a
weapon deck) cornercase.

--

David Cherryholmes
david.cherryholmes@gmail.com

"OK. So be it. It's not my view, but whatever makes you
happy, right? I'm all about making you happy, Dave. 🙂"

-- LSJ, V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Frederick Scott wrote:
> asdkl;jl;weqr0uqewriopq

I couldn't agree more.

G
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Papipo wrote:
> Hi people,
>
> I'm planning to build a wall deck with AUS CEL THA (Yitzak :]) with
> sniper rifles.
>
> I'm really scared about canine horde, since sniper rifle special
forces
> to strike with it, so I can't dodge canine hordes, that will ruin my
> deck. Any proposals of how can be Canine horde avoided when you have
> used sniper rifle's special?

Simple. Versus Animalism combat, don't use the Sniper Rifle special
when you block. 😉

If you go up against Animalism combat, you're really not that likely to
see a *ton* of Canine Hordes. Sure, many Ani decks will pack a handful,
but unless you have some major Canine Horde freak locally, they're not
that common. If the other player uses Drawing out the Beast, you're
pretty much stuck anyway so just be sure you have additional strikes
available to take advantage of the +strength.

So basically, just pack a few extra Flashes and Pursuits in there,
along with some Acrobatics. If you enter combat with a likely Canine
Horder, don't use the Sniper Rifle special, and rely on your Celerity
to get to long range. In fact, you're probably packing Quicken Sight,
which gives you a maneuver as well if you block them (which is really
the only time you need to worry about Canine Hordes).

Focus mostly on what you want to do, and then tweak a handful of cards
to deal with the metagame. :)

Jeff
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

> that common. If the other player uses Drawing out the Beast, you're
> pretty much stuck anyway so just be sure you have additional strikes
> available to take advantage of the +strength.

That's a good point 😀

Thanks
 
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