Question bad card or what???

[Dentpusher]

i have a intel dq67ep latest bios i7 2600 8gb 1333... now i checked the forums and many others and no answer i can except... evga 980 ti sc works fine switch to evga gtx 970 with ddu from safe mode clean install drivers only, crash reboot... had same deal with msi gtx 970 on same system... tried 3 power supplies, no go... again works with 980 ti but both 970's crash reboot... tried switching cpu i5 2500s and i3 2120 no go... it was when i tried putting 970 in my i5 9600k system z390 board that runs with 1070 sc and/or my 980ti sc, and it shut down i gave up... now what... can both msi 970 and evga 970 be bad??? both sellers swear they work, and they do, but when i try unigine crash reboot... after reboot the second i touch the mouse, boom crash reboot... tried new thermal paste temps in hwmonitor are around 35 to 40c i dont get it... brand new EVGA 80 plus gold rated with 40amp continuous 12v that's runin 980ti so ITS NOT PSU!!! in every setup 980ti works both 970s crash... i turned off onboard gpu and installed driver 442.50... just looking for creative answer or driver or setting advice or anything other than psu, i dont need to hear psu and all that evga 980ti sc works in every attempt... just give me something else... should i try baking them in oven at 385f for 8 minutes??? i dont think im that lucky to get two bad 970's from different buyers and booth bad, but maybe... one big mystery???

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[Darkbreeze]

You sure those cards didn't have the BIOS modified for mining? A LOT of those generation cards were either modified for mining or used as is, and rode hard, then sold. I'd check your card BIOS versions against valid versions for those cards to verify.

It might also be worth doing a hard reset of the BIOS by removing the CMOS battery for five minutes and pressing the power button on the case for 30 seconds DURING those five minutes, between card changes. That is a long shot, but I've seen it work many times when nothing else would so it's worth the ten minutes it takes to do it, to at least try.

Otherwise, I'd say yeah, you probably just have two bad cards.

BIOS Hard Reset procedure

Power off the unit, switch the PSU off and unplug the PSU cord from either the wall or the power supply.

Remove the motherboard CMOS battery for five minutes. In some cases it may be necessary to remove the graphics card to access the CMOS battery.

During that five minutes, press the power button on the case for 30 seconds. After the five minutes is up, reinstall the CMOS battery making sure to insert it with the correct side up just as it came out.

If you had to remove the graphics card you can now reinstall it, but remember to reconnect your power cables if there were any attached to it as well as your display cable.

Now, plug the power supply cable back in, switch the PSU back on and power up the system. It should display the POST screen and the options to enter CMOS/BIOS setup. Enter the bios setup program and reconfigure the boot settings for either the Windows boot manager or for legacy systems, the drive your OS is installed on if necessary.

Save settings and exit. If the system will POST and boot then you can move forward from there including going back into the bios and configuring any other custom settings you may need to configure such as Memory XMP, A-XMP or D.O.C.P profile settings, custom fan profile settings or other specific settings you may have previously had configured that were wiped out by resetting the CMOS.

In some cases it may be necessary when you go into the BIOS after a reset, to load the Optimal default or Default values and then save settings, to actually get the hardware tables to reset in the boot manager.

It is probably also worth mentioning that for anything that might require an attempt to DO a hard reset in the first place, IF the problem is related to a lack of video signal, it is a GOOD IDEA to try a different type of display as many systems will not work properly for some reason with displayport configurations. It is worth trying HDMI if you are having no display or lack of visual ability to enter the BIOS, or no signal messages.

 

[Lutfij]

First off, always list your specs like so:
CPU:
Motherboard:
Ram:
SSD/HDD:
GPU:
PSU:
Chassis:
OS:

including the make and model of the PSU as well as it's age. Given how you used 3 units, you should mention all three of them.

By latest, which version of BIOS are you on?

 

[Dentpusher]

Here we go again... no offense y’all, I understand where you’re going with psu and detailed info... but just to ease your mind I do have a brand new 850 EVGA gold rated that has way more than 40 A at 12 V rail, windows10 1909, I update windows every single time I turn my computers on because Microsoft sux, so it’s always the latest version of win10 home, 240gb adata ssd brand new, and we’re talking about the motherboard sitting on a test bench, I can’t remember exactly bios I believe the Q67Intel latest bios is .70 I’d have to check again... Ive been building computers since the 80s and this is confusing the crap out of me... brand new psu‘s that runs the 980 TI just fine. the reason I mentioned I tried three different PSU’s so you would get the understanding that all three PSU’s will run the 980 TI on the motherboard with the bios memory etc... and everything’s the same but put in the 970‘s with Ddu safe mode etc... and crash reboot... I’m gonna try Darkbreeze recommendations, the bios on our graphics card I’m kind of feeling it’s a driver issue more than a power or a faulty component on the card

 

[Darkbreeze]

EVGA has some 850w Gold rated models I wouldn't trust to power a light bulb, so that by itself doesn't mean much at all. If you think being an EVGA unit or being a gold rated unit, either one, eliminates a power supply from being a piece of crap then you are sorely mistaken I assure you. Not saying I disbelieve you that the PSU isn't the problem, but I sure as hell wouldn't use that as my backing evidence for why.

The fact that it works with a higher power draw card like the 980 ti is more evidentiary than the fact that it's EVGA or Gold rated.

What is the SPECIFIC model of that unit? Just for the sake of clarity.

 

[Dentpusher]

all psu's i own work just fine doesn't matter what they are... they're mostly from 15 year old HP's 300w maybe... hahahaha... with higher draw card the 980ti they all work... also rx 580 and 1070 super clock and a 1060... again i also tried all psu's and cards on a z390 board i5 9600k o.c. at 4.5 all cores, no problems with any cards... put in 970 boom crash reboot... ive been at this for 3 weeks tried everything pulling my hair out, ran out of hair so here i am... outlet would be more likely to be bad before any of these psu's... i'm going back to bios... sticker on back card part number {04G-P4-2972-KR} google bring up EVGA as a 970 acx 2.0... so does gpu_z... other sticker on back bios 84.04.2F.00.70 Tech powerup shows that is a 970 SC acx 2.0 with higher clock speeds so does gpu-z... these stickers are on from factory and seems wrong... i havent checked to see if bios is modded was just going to try install same bios version on sticker... now tech powerup has bios {84.04.1F.00.70} says is for 970 acx 2.0 with lower clocks which is what this card is 970 acx 2.0... if factory screwed up i should try that bios... also trying friends thermaltake 1000w gold with different outlet because i understand importance of good clean power... this all seems like a big pain in my ass, but if i can get them running, be it power, bios, capacitor, what ever, and someones kid gets to play some games i am good with that...

 

[Dentpusher]

also i did notice the msi 970 has some leakage under capacitor... very very little but its there and its the one closest to power plug... ordered esr meter just for all this see what happens when i get it.. and i was kiddin about hp psu's... lol

 

[Darkbreeze]

all psu's i own work just fine doesn't matter what they are... they're mostly from 15 year old HP's 300w maybe... hahahaha...

See, I understand your point, but that is exactly the kind of response to a serious, professional question, that will get you absolutely zero help from people who are particularly anal about having ALL the details regarding any system they are trying to offer help on. When somebody is unable to provide those details we will most often do all we can to help them obtain them, so that there is a clear picture of what we are working with.

When somebody is unwilling to provide those details because they think they already know what is and is not the problem, we generally tell them, well, good luck, obviously you don't need my help because you believe yourself to be knowledgeable enough to know exactly what is "ok" and what isn't, even though you obviously actually don't since you came here looking for help. It puts people off when a person asking for help then refuses to accomodate those trying to help them by providing the information they've asked for. It makes it a waste of time more often than not because that is exactly the kind of person that by the end of it all isn't going to listen for two seconds to any opinion regarding what we think the problem likely is.

Moving right along, as I said before, I agree that if any given power supply works with an even higher current draw card, then it is highly unlikely that that PSU is the problem HOWEVER that is not always the case because we know FOR A FACT that there are specific power supplies that have problems ONLY with specific cards, so the fact that it works fine with a GTX 980 ti does NOT necessarily mean that the same power supply is ASSURED to also work find with a lower power draw GTX 970. In point of fact, some of the Seasonic Focus units have had problems when paired up with GTX 970 cards. Since your unit is not one of those it makes it unlikely but the bottom line is that I want you to understand that not every issue is about whether something has enough "watts" or not, there are OTHER considerations that you may not know about in some cases or underlying potential causes that might be model specific and we can't evaluate that possibility if you are not playing ball agreeably enough to at least provide the information that has been asked for.

If you're going to ask for help, do yourself and everybody else the courtesy of just offering the information up, even if YOU don't think it's relevant, because it might be. Heck, in some cases WE might not even know that the information is relevant to a specific issue until we've looked into it. That can't happen if we don't have the data.

And just to be clear, when I asked for the specific model, I meant the model of the EVGA power supply, not the graphics card, although that too is helpful so thanks for that.

I think the bottom line here though is that if you've tried the same graphics cards in two different motherboards, with a variety of power supplies that work fine with the same motherboards and power supplies that the GTX 970 does NOT work with, then can be very little doubt that the graphics cards are to blame especially when you factor in the visible capacitor leakage. Capacitors don't need to leak a lot to be completely shot. They don't even need to leak AT ALL to be totally bad. IF they are bulging or leaking, at all, and there are problems, you can usually be pretty sure that they are to blame.

If they are not replaceable, or you have no experience desoldering and replacing capacitors, which is beyond the scope of most people even those who are fairly handy, then I'd say that you have one or more faulty GTX 970's on your hands.

 

[Dentpusher]

I understand I’m sorry it’s just that the list of every single power supply part number motherboards part numbers memory part numbers CPU‘s combination of all of the above etc... The list just goes on and on I have tried way more than I mentioned ... if I get the patience I will write down every single thing I’ve tried and route through all my parts that are in other units now, and write down every single thing and list it all if you believe it’ll help... I’m just trying to avoid the PSU‘s because I’ve tried them all and I’m looking at other possible problems, i’ve been working at this little project for three weeks may have forgotten a few things that I’ve tried... just to appease the anal gods I will add a monster list of every single thing...i wasnt trying to be vague or unprofessional it’s just that I’ve read all of these forums and people seem to get upset if you bring up the same thing that has always already been addressed in other threads... trying to start new deeper dive... I believe if there’s a problem with power draw got to be a capacitor or component on the card and I’ve had other 970s that work just fine... I’ve read about the PSU problems I’ve tried all the tricks that all the forums say about the PSU problems that’s kind of why am off on it I keep reading the same thing over and over again i’m honestly just trying not to waste peoples time on those kind of responses but I’ll be the first to tell you I don’t know anything that’s why I’m asking for help I really enjoy making these gaming computers and I know all the kids that use them and they love it and I want more of that in this world

 

[Dentpusher]

Also wondering if I should mess with these cards bios since the ones listed as a 970 regular and the bios is supposedly for a 970 SC just a hunch

 

[Dentpusher]

I do I have no problem soldering I save more than one motherboard I’m just buying an ESR so I don’t have to unsolder these capacitors to test them

 

[Darkbreeze]

It could definitely be a BIOS issue. If they do not have a BIOS version that matches up with what they are SUPPOSED to have, then that is always a problem, however, the fact that there is capacitor leakage overrules that IMO. Any capacitor that is leaking or bulging is in need of replacement. Not maybe. Certainly.

 

[Dentpusher]

Do you want to lecture, cause I didn’t come here for a lecture I don’t need to be treated like a child, why don’t I give you a lecture I told you I tried all the PSU scenarios... that should’ve been avoided what would be my next option??? Why do these carDes go bad what goes wrong with them??? if I have a power supply made by God himself part one serial number one used to power the sun it’s not the power supply... what would’ve been my next step... you guys went as far as to give me some rookie tip on how to do a hard reset on the CMOS I didn’t come here for for some introverts condescending statements and arguments... I guarantee I have experienced more since the 80s putting computers together straightening pins on a sip memory, y’all probably don’t even know what that is maybe read about it in a book I have firsthand knowledge of stuff you could only read about in books when y’all went to school... that’s why I hate and regretting coming to these sites can’t believe I even tried...

 

[John Chesterfield]

I think I know where the problem lies..

 

[King_V]

Do you want to lecture, cause I didn’t come here for a lecture I don’t need to be treated like a child, why don’t I give you a lecture I told you I tried all the PSU scenarios... that should’ve been avoided what would be my next option??? Why do these carDes go bad what goes wrong with them??? if I have a power supply made by God himself part one serial number one used to power the sun it’s not the power supply... what would’ve been my next step... you guys went as far as to give me some rookie tip on how to do a hard reset on the CMOS I didn’t come here for for some introverts condescending statements and arguments... I guarantee I have experienced more since the 80s putting computers together straightening pins on a sip memory, y’all probably don’t even know what that is maybe read about it in a book I have firsthand knowledge of stuff you could only read about in books when y’all went to school... that’s why I hate and regretting coming to these sites can’t believe I even tried...

Exactly how are we to determine your level of expertise, considering this is the only thread where you've ever been here. We don't know if you're a rookie or an expert.

Trying to belittle those who are attempting to help you won't really get you very far.

Is there a particular reason you're so resistant to giving us the exact model of that EVGA 80+ Gold rated PSU? You do understand that the concern here is that EVGA makes some great PSUs, and some truly awful ones. The Gold efficiency rating is irrelevant to their quality.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Honestly, I don't much care what you do. I've tried to help you but you want to come back like that with an attitude, for absolutely no reason I can think of, and act like an asshat? I'm done with you. Go figure it out yourself.

 

[Darkbreeze]

I think I know where the problem lies..

Undoubtedly.

 

[ex_bubblehead]

I think I know where the problem lies..

Absolutely

 

[John Chesterfield]

I guarantee I have experienced more since the 80s putting computers together straightening pins on a sip memory, y’all probably don’t even know what that is maybe read about it in a book I have firsthand knowledge of stuff you could only read about in books when y’all went to school... that’s why I hate and regretting coming to these sites can’t believe I even tried...

Well I'm 50 so if you were doing that when I was at school, you should have no problem figuring out what the issue is as that would make you 60+, with literally years of experience. Also, I was out both nights at the weekend and have a lot of friends, so I'm not as introverted as you imply.

You don't sound like a very patient person, which means you'll struggle to fix anything. Likelihood is that what is going on is something simple you've overlooked in the midst of your temper.

So good luck in finding a forum that will warm to your charming bedside manner, you can take their suggestions and then insult those helping when the solutions are not to your liking.

Is it fixed yet? Get on it, stop wasting time reading this! The solution is in your own hands..

 

[Darkbreeze]

Yeah, I'm 50 as well. Been tearing apart and putting together systems and working with hardware, to whatever extent was possible, since pretty much when the Altair 8800 became widely available. Then the later Vic20, Commodore64, Apple II and Apple II GS. I was working with laser printers before most people even knew there were such things as home computers, at all. Before any of that, I used to play around with whatever my dad brought home including various models of punch card and other early systems from his job at the Lawrence Livermore labs back in the early 70's.

So, the idea that everybody else here, despite that it IS true for a lot of members, is some kid who is green or wet behind the ears, is not just laughable, it's also an assumption that makes you look somewhat lame if you think about it.

What's worse, is that MANY of these guys, have been doing this for even longer, and to a much higher level, than I have. So, barking up the wrong tree probably doesn't even begin to cover it. Maybe "barking in the wrong orchard" would be better.

 

[John Chesterfield]

So like myself, you've clearly been around and faced a lot of different situations. And like myself, when troubleshooting you start with the basics, once those have been confirmed then you'll move on to the next potential solution. Guys like us need to have someone give us that confirmation, which you were trying to obtain with your question about the power supply. He claimed the PSU worked with a certain graphics card and not others. However, as people like us know, hardware differs greatly in quality and certain hardware may pull its power more cleanly than others. Just because it's a known brand name, doesn't actually mean it's any good. I'll give an example, the EATON UPS units we use at work are too sensitive for the dirty power that comes into the building, they're forever firing alerts from those cabs and it happens with over 20 out of 30 odd of them. You can adjust voltage and current sensitivity all you like, they'll still do it. That 980ti of his might just pull its power far more 'cleanly' than the other two cards, i.e. it may be far less susceptible to voltage ripple or current fluctuation and therefore operates as it should.

Upshot being and as you, myself, everyone else in this thread and all those other guys you referenced on here know, swapping out known good parts if you have them is the only way to go. So your question about the power supply was extremely valid, because again as all of us know, EVGA make some very good and very bad units, 80+ rating means nothing if the caps and board are of inferior quality.

However, instead of simply answering the question and enabling the troubleshooting to then go to the next stage if it did actually turn out he was using a quality unit, he chose to insult those who were trying to help him. A lot of people know a great deal about IT hardware, but proper knowledge on power supplies seems to be in shorter supply.

It may well turn out that his power supply isn't the issue, but we'll never know because he'd already decided himself that it wasn't the cause and wasn't prepared to present this in an acceptable way.

I actually hope he returns, posts an apology for his insulting post above and we actually try to resolve his issue.

But I'm doubting he will.

 

[King_V]

Agreed... 49 myself, and I think of myself as a computer guy, but I know there've been years where I simply wasn't in the PC game, and know there are enormous gaps in my knowledge.

But, when there's something I have learned, well, that's a different story.

And if I don't know - that's what experts are for: I am not an expert in X, so I will rely on someone who is. Or several someones.

 

[ex_bubblehead]

Been doing this stuff since the mid-late 60's here. Rebuilt an ASR-33 teletype at 11 years old. Built/Owned an Altair 8800 with a 2 digit serial #. I've got screwdrivers and such older than most of the participants here

I also got to play with what you see in my avatar

 

[Darkbreeze]

So like myself, you've clearly been around and faced a lot of different situations. And like myself, when troubleshooting you start with the basics, once those have been confirmed then you'll move on to the next potential solution. Guys like us need to have someone give us that confirmation, which you were trying to obtain with your question about the power supply. He claimed the PSU worked with a certain graphics card and not others. However, as people like us know, hardware differs greatly in quality and certain hardware may pull its power more cleanly than others. Just because it's a known brand name, doesn't actually mean it's any good. I'll give an example, the EATON UPS units we use at work are too sensitive for the dirty power that comes into the building, they're forever firing alerts from those cabs and it happens with over 20 out of 30 odd of them. You can adjust voltage and current sensitivity all you like, they'll still do it. That 980ti of his might just pull its power far more 'cleanly' than the other two cards, i.e. it may be far less susceptible to voltage ripple or current fluctuation and therefore operates as it should.

Upshot being and as you, myself, everyone else in this thread and all those other guys you referenced on here know, swapping out known good parts if you have them is the only way to go. So your question about the power supply was extremely valid, because again as all of us know, EVGA make some very good and very bad units, 80+ rating means nothing if the caps and board are of inferior quality.

However, instead of simply answering the question and enabling the troubleshooting to then go to the next stage if it did actually turn out he was using a quality unit, he chose to insult those who were trying to help him. A lot of people know a great deal about IT hardware, but proper knowledge on power supplies seems to be in shorter supply.

It may well turn out that his power supply isn't the issue, but we'll never know because he'd already decided himself that it wasn't the cause and wasn't prepared to present this in an acceptable way.

I actually hope he returns, posts an apology for his insulting post above and we actually try to resolve his issue.

But I'm doubting he will.

This, pretty much mirrors exactly what I tend to preach as gospel whenever asked. Very concise and on point post.