Bang for the buck

[socalstuff]

I am always hearing "price to performance" "bang for the buck" the dollar cost per frame of gpu performance and things like this, but outside of the context of overclocking. Are there any (current) articles which might explain the $$$economics$$$ of overclocking and the tradeoff you get from lower grade hardware with cooling systems? I am debating whether I should overclock + cool with some snazzy water cooling system(or other scheme) with not as great gpus, cpus, and other things, or just buy top of the line super duper stuff without overclocking("both" is not an option as i'm poor less than 800$ is my budget and monitor needs to be bought too). Ok I know some basics for liquid cooling such as buying water blocks for cpus, gpus (yes i like to game), tweaking the bios settings/multipliers, etc, is it worth it?

Some criteria I consider:
Reusability of water blocks for future use (~90$ per gpu water block is pretty steep IMHO)
cost of the actual cooling system/refrigerator/radiator thingy
game/system performance increase
cost of this in time + money + maintenence

 

[socalstuff]

I am always hearing "price to performance" "bang for the buck" the dollar cost per frame of gpu performance and things like this, but outside of the context of overclocking. Are there any (current) articles which might explain the $$$economics$$$ of overclocking and the tradeoff you get from lower grade hardware with cooling systems? I am debating whether I should overclock + cool with some snazzy water cooling system(or other scheme) with not as great gpus, cpus, and other things, or just buy top of the line super duper stuff without overclocking("both" is not an option as i'm poor less than 800$ is my budget and monitor needs to be bought too). Ok I know some basics for liquid cooling such as buying water blocks for cpus, gpus (yes i like to game), tweaking the bios settings/multipliers, etc, is it worth it?

Some criteria I consider:
Reusability of water blocks for future use (~90$ per gpu water block is pretty steep IMHO)
cost of the actual cooling system/refrigerator/radiator thingy
game/system performance increase
cost of this in time + money + maintenence

O well I 'm guessing it might not be that worth it as water cooling is 400$ even if it is a one time cost for the radiator unit + tubing

 

[masterjaw]

IMO, buy what you can or want to buy and overclock it. No need to compare. Buying a low grade component then OC to compare with the higher ones isn't the deal here. If that's is the case then it would've just be left behind by the higher component once it is OCed. Getting more from the component you bought is the main idea behind OCing.

 

[rubix_1011]

You can buy waterblocks that you can use from system to system with a $10 bracket change. I use the MCW60 waterblocks...have used them on 4 different cards, only needing to change brackets depending on which card they are used on.

7800GTX
8800GTS 640
9800GTX+
GTX260 Core 216

CPU blocks are much the same. You can continue to reuse the pump and radiators as well. Only thing you really need to replace is the coolant/water and tubing. Do more research...I think your knowledge is quite lacking to start making poor decisions on watercooling at this point. There are a few of us here that frequent the WC threads...read up and ask some questions.

 

[Shadow703793]

+1. Don't buy full card blocks.

Below is the classic cut & paste:

I'll just snip the whole thing, I just redid parts of it.

Us guys have done the WC thing, there are basics you gotta know. Take a look, don't take it as a diss on you or a rebuttal, look at as a friend saying "Dude, you gotta know what to say and how to communicate".
.......................................
CPU HS $65
GPU HS and air HS for vram and mosfets $95, full cover block, $100-$200
Radiator $60 min, up to $130
Pump $50 +
Resiviour $25
Hose, some barbs and clamps etc (min $25, more like $35)
Fans $15-30

I went top notch and spent close to $600 to cool my CPU and GPU.
First you gotta learn about WC. It's not like walking into Best Buy.
Spend a while (weeks is best for your sanity) at these links.
Look at the hundreds of loops close to your case and components in the stickies, read a couple 50 or so threads over the next week or so, you'll be on the ball to make the right choices and by then know how to put it together.
Not 'Roket Sience', but basic knowledge is required.
And you should spend a few hours on the listed sites reading threads. It's how we learn. Once the goodies show up on your doorstep your on your own.
For your benefit please spend a few days reading a LOT. At the busiest places for WC masters. Guys who have done it for YEARS at OC Forums and xtreme forums. It took me a while (I was OCing on air, aftermarket stuff, bios settings, best chipsets etc etc) to learn the language and the tricks to a easy install.

Don't expect miracles or SUPER DOOPER over clocks. What you will get is a quiet system that can handle OC to the max of your hardware IF you buy quality and buy smart. And minor maintenance too, a bonus for the water cooler.

Also while there please read on case mods etc. The radiators are not for small cases, pumps and hose routing, wire management and other things are important. Google your planned case and the word water-cooled in one line. You might get lucky.
............................
Edit: The next paragraph was from 2008. With the advent of the HOT i7 and bigger GPU's, it has changed. A 220 size MIN rad for an i7, you want big overclocks, better go 320 sized rad.
................................

IF you just cool your CPU and your NB if you want, you can get by with a 120.2 sized radiator (RAD). And MAYBE fit in inside depending on your mod skillz. You want to cool your GPU too, you'll need a 120.3 sized rad, and it probably won't fit inside. The rear external rad really works great. No matter what your adding 10lbs to your PC.

Once you got an idea of what is good/bad then start getting your system for WC put together and we'll be glad to help.
,…………………………………………………………
Here is the poop on solid info on air/water temps. The link is to an MCR320.
http://martin.skinneelabs.com/Swifte...20-Review.html
Scroll half way down and you can see the in/out air diff on the chart. It depends, like I said on fannage what the out air temp vs. the in temp is.

You can also see the water in/out is very close in temps. No more than 1.5 C. Amazing eh? I thought so too once I deciphered the charts.

So if you put a second rad with good airflow, you still get good results. Fannage needs to be higher to compensate for the increased air restriction. Meaning double fans on the rad setup, but it's a viable solution.

Equilibrium (tough word) means with a set heat load (idle/load) after an amount of time temps in a WC loop will stabilize. The heat load is the same, ambient air is the same, fannage is the same, pumps are the same, size of rads are the same, temps will stabilize for those conditions. Any of these parameters change, it has to stabilize. …………………………………………………………
Cleaning a loop, not a new loop: I do this once a year, I drain and refill at 6 months, the next time I do this……..
Wash hands very well, getting rid of hand oils.
For pumps and blocks, fittings, clamps, acrylic res/block parts.... not hose, tear it to smallest pieces, put in a bowl, heat water up not to boiling add 10% vinegar, when hot, pour over parts. Rinse in 10 min or so. Put aside.
The bocks will probably have some black oxidation. Take the copper parts out of the pile of parts you took out of the water. Dry well and pour ketchup on them, and set aside. Only the copper parts need this.
Rad cleaning: fill with very almost boiling hot water. Let sit 10 minutes, drain half out and shake for 5 min. Repeat till liquid is clean.
All the pump, block, fittings, and clamps, inspect, get in the tiniest corners with a tooth brush. Kind of meditative, time consuming, you learn a lot about o-ring size, how it all feels. Run a rag using a caat hanger and dish soap through the tubing, rinse well.
Rinse all the parts and hose with distilled, dry then really dry with an air compressor (nice extra step to get rid of water spots). Don’t need to dry the inside of the hose.
Now on to the copper parts, they should have been soaking an hour or two. A toothbrush and ketchup should clean much of the oxidation. It probably won’t be like new, but pretty darn good. Rinse, dry, and blow the parts.
That’s it.
………………………………………………………
Benching software and such is very varied. I use these for each purpose:
These are pretty standard and used by many.
Monitoring the PC temps overall: HWmonitor aka hardware monitor
CPUZ for CPU info
GPUZ for GPU info
CPU only: RealTemp
GPU only: ATI Tool, I have a Nivida GTX280, so it works on Nvidia

Loading/benching tools:
CPU loaders: Prime95 and OCCT
GPU Loaders: ATI Tool and the best one is Furmark, nothing pushes the GPU harder right now.
Benching for overall graphics/gaming performance is 3DMark06
……………………………………………………………
Guides
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=282232 Pretty up to date info and buying guide
http://gilgameshreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=75:hokiealumnus&catid=40😱verclocking-and-cooling&Itemid=86 Another good guide
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=312743 What to do once all the stuff is in the door

Forums
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/index.php? Not a noob site, but great stickies
http://www.ocforums.com/ My fav, good peeps, know their stuff, less hardcore
http://www.over-clock.com/ivb/inde [...] opic=20277 A GREAT Europe site
http://www.overclock.net/water-cooling/ Decent site

Tests on equipment, not reviews, truly scientific tests
http://translate.google.com/transl [...] n&ie=UTF-8 Info on rad testing
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=220593 More rad testing
http://skinneelabs.com/ Host for Martins lab and some newer tests
http://www.skinneelabs.com/MartinsLiquidLab/ Test results, very technical


Stores
http://www.dangerden.com/index.php [...] e&Itemid=1
http://www.petrastechshop.com/
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/
http://www.jab-tech.com/
http://www.performance-pcs.com

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/252455-29-water-cooled-computer#t1801333

@OP: Once you have a better understanding come back. We will look over it and if needed we will refer you to a more WCer populated forum. Toms has only about 4-6 regular WCing people. (rubix,conumdrum,me,et al)

 

[rubix_1011]

^Full cover blocks work great, but you can get almost as good cooling with a universal block and RAMsinks.

 

[Shadow703793]

True, but you can't re use it 😉

 

[Conumdrum]

You see his budget for everything including a monitor was $800? Looks like real watercooling is not an option.

 

[Shadow703793]

^LOL! I did not see that. But if OP's in for modding, can be done for $200 for CPU only.

 

[rubix_1011]

OP needs to prioritize a little more and work on component budget first...Get a decent air cooler and work your way from there.

 

[Conumdrum]

OP prolly has no idea what real WC cost, even your cheap way on a table. So yea, air............

Your way works tho, Shadow!

 

[overshocked]

LOL this is a funny post!

But shadow you can do a WC thing for like $100

if you really cut down.