***Before you buy EK nickel block !!!***

[boiler1990]

Corrosion report (translated) by Institute Jozef Stefan
(That's the one where I was unimpressed by said blurry pictures of original plating)

I'm a Nuclear Materials Engineer Undergrad, and this report is pretty cool. However, I'm a bit skeptical about the Barium that he mentions in the summary of the first block. If we're running a "distilled water + silver killcoil" setup, we can't get Barium from dyes/pigments, and also, he doesn't mention (at least, as far as I saw) Barium before the conclusion of the first block.

Personally, I'd get somebody else to do the study. IMHO this report was not conducted/written properly.

 

[rubix_1011]

Is he using Barium as an indicator similar to a litmus test for the copper quality? I'm only a humble network admin/systems engineer.

 

[boiler1990]

There's nothing humbling about being a systems/network engineer; I need somebody to keep my horrible government computer connected to our government network (which they never want to upgrade...*sigh*), because lord knows I can't do it. I can build a PC and tell you everything about it, but once you connect PC A to PC B, you've lost me

He was talking about its presence in pigments, but the report never mentioned dyes or anything prior to that point. I believe he was discussing the minerals/elements in the buildup.

This report is so unclear and poorly documented in some regards that I'm questioning the merit of it. Maybe some parts were lost in translation?

 

[rubix_1011]

I am wondering if he was operating simply on the basis of assumptions that 'everyone would get why he was using the materials he was using'...but you can't in ANY kind of published/public write-up. You always have to assume the lowest common denominator in both knowledge and reading comprehension in case people don't get what you are saying...and also to provide validity to your test methods.

 

[boiler1990]

I am wondering if he was operating simply on the basis of assumptions that 'everyone would get why he was using the materials he was using'...but you can't in ANY kind of published/public write-up. You always have to assume the lowest common denominator in both knowledge and reading comprehension in case people don't get what you are saying...and also to provide validity to your test methods.

I used "Find" on Barium, and they mentioned that in the EDS analysis (chemical scan) they found traces of Barium, and tried to attribute it to pigments in the coolant. The author also said that he does not know how it got into their coolant system (maybe there's another cause or improper documentation of the coolant? PT Nuke?).

Blocks 2-4 I just disregarded. An explanation of the blocks' appearances and a bunch of pictures means nothing to me.

Block 5 was documented very well, but there was no conclusion or possible explanations. He just said "The introduction of additional metals into the system (silver, etc.) or the use of ionic algaecides (copper sulfate, etc.) even in minor concentrations can trigger the corrosion processes," but gave no scientific backing to the statement.

I've written a few journal-type papers, and while you don't need to completely break down the concepts, you have to remember your audience (in this case, a less scientific community, but scientific nonetheless) and document EVERYTHING. One of my professors spends a lot of time writing rejection letters to journals because the authors fail to fully document their processes and observations, which inherently flaws their conclusions (and potentially other research based on those papers).

 

[ortoklaz]

UPDATE;
http://www.ekwaterblocks.com/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=85&cntnt01origid=15&cntnt01returnid=17
"Halt on EK Nickel Plated blocks - 11/06/2011
Dear EK partner/user,

As EK is looking for lasting solution for nickel plating issue (concerning corrosion because of silver coils and copper sulphate additive) we decided to halt sales of nickel plated products till solution is found and tested. Our resellers were advised to halt sales too.

We cannot put users into position, that we replace products and corrosion starts again on new product. Hopefully we will find an answer and tested solution in short while.

We will update you as soon as we have any news.

However, If customer insists on buying EK nickel block, we offer a customer full 24 month warranty on material, manufacturing and corrosion.

Edvard König"

 

[boiler1990]

I think that's the right thing for them to do, but I'm also impressed that they'll still cover you for 2 years, given that a lot of the issues are occurring within the first 1-3 months of use.

I hope they find the cause of the problem!

 

[ortoklaz]

I think that's the right thing for them to do, but I'm also impressed that they'll still cover you for 2 years, given that a lot of the issues are occurring within the first 1-3 months of use.

I hope they find the cause of the problem!

not really ,they should stop selling them long time ago,the 2 year warranty is something they can't change and as for plating ;
"The replacement form can be filled in until July 31st, and starting with August 1st EK will no longer replace products with such damage as the reason of the damage will be widely known and customers still using these additives will do it under their own risk. The replacement request can also be possible only for the purchases with invoices dated up to June 12th 2011."
http://www.ekwaterblocks.com/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=83&cntnt01returnid=17

what's so impressive ?

 

[RealRedRaider]

not really ,they should stop selling them long time ago,the 2 year warranty is something they can't change and as for plating ;
"The replacement form can be filled in until July 31st, and starting with August 1st EK will no longer replace products with such damage as the reason of the damage will be widely known and customers still using these additives will do it under their own risk. The replacement request can also be possible only for the purchases with invoices dated up to June 12th 2011."
http://www.ekwaterblocks.com/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=83&cntnt01returnid=17

what's so impressive ?

My thoughts exactly.

I believe that Eddy read a thread that I posted and rethought things a bit, yet EK still has not changed their policy on blocks that were purchased prior to their 11 June 2011 new release.

Here is the thread, which clearly shows that EK is still in full violation of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act....

http://www.realredraider.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=48071

 

[ortoklaz]

OP updated
"EK RMA upgrade for corrosion - 14/06/2011
RMA is upgraded on two points:

1. We are lifting the RMA limit on corrosion to full 24month from the end-user purchase date without limit.
2. EK will cover all shipping costs of the RMA block to reseller and shipping of the replacement block back to customer.

The procedure of RMA request stays the same; filling the RMA form."

 

[boiler1990]

Just wanted to make this knowledge public since we'd discussed this a while ago. This is going to be a long post just FYI.

I run distilled + 3 drops PT Nuke (Copper Sulfate) in my loop.

I bought a FC6970 EN (the "fixed" ones) sometime in the September-October time frame when I upgraded to 2x6950 2GBs. At the time I was using one EN block and one non-EN block (purchased used). When I tore down my system, I found that the non-EN block was perfect, but the EN block had spotting on it. So I sold the non-EN block and contacted EK for help with my spotting/potential corrosion issue (the non-EN block started to corrode a few months after I sold it, so in all I think it lasted about 2 years total).


I contacted EK (which is somewhat of a pain - they're located in Slovenia which is like 7-9 hours ahead of EST) and this is the conversation that took place:

Nov 30 2011, 11:49 PM
Hi there,

I took apart my watercooled 6950s and found that my EN-plated FC6970 Nickel/Plexi waterblock has what looks like corrosion spots on it. I don't know what the procedure is for me to RMA an EN block, so that's why I created a ticket.
(had regular photographs here - could clearly see spotting but couldn't tell what it was. Might be able to find old photos)

Dec 1 2011, 8:28 AM
In order to reassure you, I have to say this does not look like a corrosion, but rather a filth from system stuck on block surface.
You may clean the block if it bothers you. It certainly will not have any influence on performance.

Several emails took place that aren't kept in the system. What basically went down was:
-I asked what I was supposed to clean it with - they told me some kind of high-end auto wax that I can't afford :/
-Took pictures of the block with a microscope - will try to find the pictures, but they're perfect circles, which is how both corrosion and deposits start initially. They were monochrome, so no indication if the copper was showing or anything.
-EK tells me that they can look at it if I pay for shipping (which is ~$13 using a small Priority Flate rate). I send it off, should get there in 6-10 days.
-One month later (almost exactly 30 days) it arrives (screw you USPS); one of the guys fricking went on vacation in this time. Easily the most frustrating part.
-They clean it off; no corrosion found. Shipped it back to me and got here within 2 weeks.


So why did I write this long a** post? Well, I got the block back (in January) with this nice little pamphlet telling me that any coolant other than a premix is damaging to EK's nickel blocks. They say that silver coils or copper sulfate (PT Nuke) can cause galvanic corrosion. As we saw in the report they issued, this is a total crock since they were having issues with just plain distilled water. Make of this what you will, but it turned me off to their nickel products, and maybe even the rest of their products.

Suggestions:
-Don't buy EK's Nickel blocks until they figure this crap out. Everybody else can make nickel-plated blocks without a problem, so what's going on here?

-In general, I wouldn't buy their products. I'm not one of those "The customer is always right" people (since a lot of people are stupid), but if a large portion of your target market thinks you're wrong based on experience (i.e. the pamphlet I posted), you shouldn't be getting our money. I'm moving to XSPC and Swiftech for future purchases.

-EK needs to open a US distribution center or something. There's no reason I should have to ship it to Slovenia in the event of a problem. Too many things can go wrong shipping internationally, and it's expensive for everybody. It's also really hard to fix and issue when I wake up in the morning to send an email and it's already evening in Slovenia - it took me about a week before I sent it in because we could only send/receive one email per day

-EK's customer service - keep doing what you're doing. It was a pleasure to deal with them, but the entire combination of issues was overall negative. I've dealt with a lot of terrible CS in the past, and EK was stellar (it was similar to my experiences with EVGA).