Best GPU for an Intel Pentium 4 at 2.93ghz

[ntr11023]

Hey guys,

So, I'm still fixing up my old computer, but I finally got it running again. I reformatted the hard drive, got a wireless network card, and picked up a new sound card. We are in business! The main use of the computer will be gaming, so I want it to run as good as possible. But there's a problem. It has integrated graphics... from 5 years ago! I doubt that that will get me very far in today's world. The solution? I need a new graphics card. My computer has:

Processor: Intel Pentium 4 single core @ 2.93ghz
4gb DDR2 RAM
250w PSU

Unless I can get a significantly better processor for less than $50, I do not want to upgrade that at the current time. So, my question is what is the best GPU for an Intel Pentium 4 single core processor at 2.93ghz?

I would prefer to stick with Nvidia because Nvidia cards tend to outperform the ATIs. Remember, the main use of this machine will be gaming.

I would prefer a card that could work with a 250w PSU (if such a card exists), but utilizing the full processor is more important. I can upgrade the PSU if need be.

I am on a very tight budget. I do not have the money to buy a new computer at the current time. My goal is to get the most out of my Pentium that I can.

Thanks for the help!!

EDIT: I believe I have a PCI slot on my desktop. Don't know how much that helps, but I thought I'd go ahead and throw that in.

EDIT2: The slot in my computer is PCI 32-bit. I now know that this does matter, as PCIe and AGP will not work.

 

[jjb8675309]

Yawn

Looks at post count.

Ah_Haaa!!

 

[professorprofessorson]

I don't really have any idea of your total budget, or how far you are willing to go, but here is a rundown of parts and prices that would help build a solid budget system that could run any game out now well enough. All you would need to add is a dvd and hard drives, case fans, and ram. If you picked the cheapest item in every section off this list you would have a build running you about $270 or so. If you already have a good comp case with a lot of ventilation for air flow, then that would save you about 40-50 bucks off that $270 I mentioned.

CPU
AMD Athlon II X3 450 Rana 3.2GHz $79.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103886
or
AMD Athlon II X4 640 Propus 3.0GHz Now: $99.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103871

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Motherboards
ASRock N68C-S UCC $44.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157204

OR
ASRock A770DE+ $53.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157226
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Graphics cards
ATI Sapphire HD4850 $54.99
http://cgi.ebay.com/ATI-Sapphire-HD4850-HD-4850-GDDR3-512MB-PCIe-Video-Card-/250803508726?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item3a650dd5f6
and
http://cgi.ebay.com/ATI-Sapphire-HD4850-HD-4850-GDDR3-512MB-PCIe-Video-Card-/270735448492?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item3f091719ac
OR
ATI Radeon Sapphire HD4870 $69.99
http://cgi.ebay.com/ATI-Radeon-Sapphire-HD4870-HD-4870-PCIe-x16-512MB-Video-/250810809853?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item3a657d3dfd
OR
Gigabyte ATI HD 5750 $88.00 shipped
http://cgi.ebay.com/Gigabyte-ATI-HD-5750-GV-R575SL-1GI-Totally-Silent-/300550974227?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item45fa3beb13
OR
Galaxy GeForce GTS 450 $109 prior, $79.99 after mail-in rebate card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814162062&cm_re=gts_450-_-14-162-062-_-Product
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Power Supply
Rocketfish 550 watt $38.00 shipped
http://cgi.ebay.com/ROCKETFISH-550W-ATX-CPU-POWER-SUPPLY-RF-550WPS-/380278865238?pt=PCA_UPS&hash=item588a62fd56
and just incase that one sells, this one is about $45 shipped
http://cgi.ebay.com/BRAND-NEW-ROCKETFISH-550-WATT-POWER-SUPPLY-GLOWS-BLUE-/380320530351?pt=PCA_UPS&hash=item588cdebfaf
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Case
NZXT GAMMA Classic Series GAMA-001BK Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case $34.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146061
OR
COOLER MASTER Elite RC-310-BWN1-GP Black Steel / Plastic ATX Mid Tower Computer Case $39.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119203


EDIT: Also, thought I'd mention, if you mostly plan to game, Win 7 32-bit does pretty well on 2gb of ram in case you had thoughts of buying it online or getting it via other means. So does 32-bit XP Pro. 1gb sticks of DDR2 800 ram are pretty cheap on ebay also incase you cared to shop around on there for extra sticks.

 

[ntr11023]

Hmm, I figured you would want a DDR2 board so you could use your current ram and not have to buy new stuff. DDR3 motherboards are actually much more common at this point. If you want one I would recommend this combo with a GTS 250 which is a nice amount faster than the HD5670 and nice deal with the combo/rebate;
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.627069
Here is another option for the processor that I just spotted on sale.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103916
There's a $10 off promo code, EMCKFHD32, making it $105. That's a quad core you don't have to worry about unlocking and the Phenom IIs have L3 cache that the Athlon II processors lack. It is worth the extra money if you can afford it.
The PSU I recommended earlier has gone up in price and not worth it any more. I'd switch it to this;
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817815008
Not the best brand but the reviews I'm seeing are alright and it is bronze certified. Should be fine for your needs and it is a very good deal with the rebate.
If you do go with the DDR3 motherboard then you will need new RAM. Something like this would be fine;
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231396
FYI there is currently a 15% off promo code for all memory, DM15AP11US.

Chrome messed up and made me double post. Please refer to the below message.

 

[ntr11023]

Hmm, I figured you would want a DDR2 board so you could use your current ram and not have to buy new stuff. DDR3 motherboards are actually much more common at this point. If you want one I would recommend this combo with a GTS 250 which is a nice amount faster than the HD5670 and nice deal with the combo/rebate;
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.627069
Here is another option for the processor that I just spotted on sale.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103916
There's a $10 off promo code, EMCKFHD32, making it $105. That's a quad core you don't have to worry about unlocking and the Phenom IIs have L3 cache that the Athlon II processors lack. It is worth the extra money if you can afford it.
The PSU I recommended earlier has gone up in price and not worth it any more. I'd switch it to this;
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817815008
Not the best brand but the reviews I'm seeing are alright and it is bronze certified. Should be fine for your needs and it is a very good deal with the rebate.
If you do go with the DDR3 motherboard then you will need new RAM. Something like this would be fine;
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231396
FYI there is currently a 15% off promo code for all memory, DM15AP11US.

That looks great. I think I'll go with something like that. Reasonably priced, decent performance... just what I'm looking for.

 

[ntr11023]

I don't really have any idea of your total budget, or how far you are willing to go, but here is a rundown of parts and prices that would help build a solid budget system that could run any game out now well enough. All you would need to add is a dvd and hard drives, case fans, and ram. If you picked the cheapest item in every section off this list you would have a build running you about $270 or so. If you already have a good comp case with a lot of ventilation for air flow, then that would save you about 40-50 bucks off that $270 I mentioned.

EDIT: Also, thought I'd mention, if you mostly plan to game, Win 7 32-bit does pretty well on 2gb of ram in case you had thoughts of buying it online or getting it via other means. So does 32-bit XP Pro. 1gb sticks of DDR2 800 ram are pretty cheap on ebay also incase you cared to shop around on there for extra sticks.

Those are some good cases! When I get enough money to build my Phenom II X6 system, I'll definitely consider getting one of those. Those motherboards also look really nice...

 

[jyjjy]

You'll actually see little difference in performance with a x4 vs a x6 except in highly multi-threaded tasks(not too common for the average user.) If you want to build a higher end system next then the Intel sandy bridge processors are the way to go right now. In the next few months AMDs Bulldozer chips should be out though so we will have to see how they compare in price/performance.
If you are interested in a new case for the parts you are putting together now you could get something like this;
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811154094
Nothing special but it is cheap and will do the job. It would also save you the hassle of gutting your current system and will leave it in working shape basically apart from the hard/dvd drives as a back up system.
FYI order that stuff soon, the deals are always changing and the promo codes expire.

 

[ntr11023]

You'll actually see little difference in performance with a x4 vs a x6 except in highly multi-threaded tasks(not too common for the average user.) If you want to build a higher end system next then the Intel sandy bridge processors are the way to go right now. In the next few months AMDs Bulldozer chips should be out though so we will have to see how they compare in price/performance.
If you are interested in a new case for the parts you are putting together now you could get something like this;
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811154094
Nothing special but it is cheap and will do the job. It would also save you the hassle of gutting your current system and will leave it in working shape basically apart from the hard/dvd drives as a back up system.
FYI order that stuff soon, the deals are always changing and the promo codes expire.

I actually looked at the processor line you mentioned, and I was unimpressed. The closest comparison is the Intel Core I7-950. It's about $40 more and only performs slightly better at most things, but is outperformed by the aforementioned processor in 3D rendering. I can build a top-of-the-line AMD machine for between $1000-$1500, but a top-of-the-line Intel machine will cost me that much just for the processor, and between $3500-$4000 when all's said and done. The highest framerate the human eye can perceive is about 90 fps. The hexacore Phenom will get me very near that, if not over, in LOTRO, and about 70-80 fps in WoW. That's good enough for me, personally.

Now, the 8-core "Orochi", as it's currently called, is something to wait for, in my opinion. I wasn't aware of it until you brought up the new bulldozers they're coming out with. I'm interested to see how it will perform in correlation with the price, and knowing AMD, I don't expect price to be a problem.

 

[jyjjy]

I'm not sure what you were looking at but the sandy bridge chips(the i7-950 is last gen Bloomfield processor) rape AMD's current lineup. Forget about the high end Intel chips. For the most part anything above the i7-2600k exists only to part suckers from their money.
Here is the i5-2500k vs the similarly priced Phenom II x6 1100T
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/288?vs=203
Throw on top of that that the i5 can easily OC up to 4.5ghz usually vs 3.6-3.8ghz for the 1100T and the performance difference is simply huge.

 

[jjb8675309]

^as a 955 owner I totally agree

 

[ntr11023]

I'm not sure what you were looking at but the sandy bridge chips(the i7-950 is last gen Bloomfield processor) rape AMD's current lineup. Forget about the high end Intel chips. For the most part anything above the i7-2600k exists only to part suckers from their money.
Here is the i5-2500k vs the similarly priced Phenom II x6 1100T
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/288?vs=203
Throw on top of that that the i5 can easily OC up to 4.5ghz usually vs 3.6-3.8ghz for the 1100T and the performance difference is simply huge.

Man, you're right! That CPU rapes the Phenom! That's definitely worth the extra money. And if I'm not mistaken, most I3 boards support I5s, so I could just pop it in to our main computer. But now we have the issue of cooling to deal with. An I5 with 8gb RAM, a high end graphics card (like the GTX 590), and I'm thinking about 750w PSU running in a closed area is gonna get pretty warm, and I don't think the scrawny little fan that came with the computer will keep it between 50-60 degrees. Cooling is one thing I have a lot of trouble with. What would you suggest?

 

[ntr11023]

^as a 955 owner I totally agree

Alright. So it looks like I'll be going more along the lines of an I5.

 

[jyjjy]

Man, you're right! That CPU rapes the Phenom! That's definitely worth the extra money. And if I'm not mistaken, most I3 boards support I5s, so I could just pop it in to our main computer.

One of the points of that comparison was actually that there is no extra money involved. The two chips are the same price. As for motherboard it depends on what you are talking about. Unfortunately the Sandy Bridge chips use a new socket, LGA1155. The last generation of i3/5/7 used LGA1156 and some of the i7s used LGA1366. That is one area where AMD has it over Intel at the moment in that they like to make their sockets last a while (although their next gen wont be compatible with older motherboards either.) If you already have an LGA1156 board with an i3 you can upgrade to a last gen i5/i7 however. It also generally beats the 1100T if not as consistently or to such a spectacular degree;
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/191?vs=203
Keep in mind when looking at the above comparison that the 1100T is clocked half a ghz(or 18%) higher which isn't really relevant if you are going to overclock. In fact 4ghz usually isn't a problem for those i5s so you need to make some mental adjustments.
As for cooling do you mean a CPU fan/heatsink or the computer case itself? The case is more important in general while the CPU cooler is mainly important with regards to overclocking.

 

[ntr11023]

One of the points of that comparison was actually that there is no extra money involved. The two chips are the same price. As for motherboard it depends on what you are talking about. Unfortunately the Sandy Bridge chips use a new socket, LGA1155. The last generation of i3/5/7 used LGA1156 and some of the i7s used LGA1366. That is one area where AMD has it over Intel at the moment in that they like to make their sockets last a while (although their next gen wont be compatible with older motherboards either.) If you already have an LGA1156 board with an i3 you can upgrade to a last gen i5/i7 however. It also generally beats the 1100T if not as consistently or to such a spectacular degree;
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/191?vs=203
Keep in mind when looking at the above comparison that the 1100T is clocked half a ghz(or 18%) higher which isn't really relevant if you are going to overclock. In fact 4ghz usually isn't a problem for those i5s so you need to make some mental adjustments.
As for cooling do you mean a CPU fan/heatsink or the computer case itself? The case is more important in general while the CPU cooler is mainly important with regards to overclocking.

I've done some more research on the processors, and the Sandy Bridge series no doubt performs very well. However, I've uncovered a major problem with them: they are extremely buggy! They blue screen very frequently, the kiss of death to any MMO. Am I missing anything, or has the problem been fixed with the B3 chipset?

 

[jjb8675309]

^never heard that one before, where are you getting this info?? (stop reading newegg reviews)

SB chips are excellent

 

[ntr11023]

^never heard that one before, where are you getting this info?? (stop reading newegg reviews)

SB chips are excellent

I went to some used computer stores (not like Fry's or Best Buy where they don't know anything about computers) and they were all saying the same thing: Sandy Bridge is buggy. They don't sell Sandy Bridge chips anymore because of all the bugs. So, do you have an SB chip? If so, how does it perform, how hard do you push it, and how often does it blue screen?

 

[jjb8675309]

^ no I don't look at my sig below, just have never heard that, they were buggy at release bc of a messed up sata port but that issue has been resolved... otherwise they should be just as reliable as any chip, and I know many enthusiasts that use them... besides that what does your "shop" offer as an alternative?, it sounds like bs to me and that they don't really know what they are talking about... hopefully they are not trying to push old product to you to get rid of it by bad mouthing SB, can anyone back me up here?

 

[ntr11023]

^ no I don't look at my sig below, just have never heard that, they were buggy at release bc of a messed up sata port but that issue has been resolved... otherwise they should be just as reliable as any chip, and I know many enthusiasts that use them... besides that what does your "shop" offer as an alternative?, it sounds like bs to me and that they don't really know what they are talking about... hopefully they are not trying to push old product to you to get rid of it by bad mouthing SB, can anyone back me up here?

No, the shops I have been going to are reliable sources. The failure rate with the SB chips is not guaranteed. It's about 5%, but that ratio increases if you push it really hard. The problem is if you are in that percentage of buggy chips, there is no warranty from Intel; no refund will be issued and no support exists. I've had a lot of bad luck in my days. I've looked at percentages and said the risk was low, so it couldn't happen to me. I was wrong. I have not only drawn the short straw once, but several times, a mistake I do not plan to make again. For this reason, I don't think I'm going to push my luck again.

 

[jyjjy]

There was a problem with the SATA controllers having degrading performance over time in the initial LGA1155 boards. They were recalled and you couldn't buy one for a few months. The boards you will find on the market now have fixed the issue and it never had anything to do with blue screen errors. Other than that I have never heard of them being "buggy."

 

[ntr11023]

There was a problem with the SATA controllers having degrading performance over time in the initial LGA1155 boards. They were recalled and you couldn't buy one for a few months. The boards you will find on the market now have fixed the issue and it never had anything to do with blue screen errors. Other than that I have never heard of them being "buggy."

Alright. I'll take another look.

 

[jjb8675309]

There was a problem with the SATA controllers having degrading performance over time in the initial LGA1155 boards. They were recalled and you couldn't buy one for a few months. The boards you will find on the market now have fixed the issue and it never had anything to do with blue screen errors. Other than that I have never heard of them being "buggy."

yeah that is what I am saying it sounds like the people advising the OP do not have a clue...

OP- what did they offer to you as an alternative, just out of curiosity?

 

[jjb8675309]

I mean some of the most high-level users on this forum use SB chips (aside from servers maybe... some stupid people too I would imagine but I have never heard someone bash SB like that before... aside from the initial sata port issue that has since been resolved, generally cpus do not just fail or come DOA, and if for some reason it did the manufacturer would surely RMA it for you

 

[jyjjy]

(stop reading newegg reviews)

Actually this is precisely the kind of issue where they can prove useful. If these chips were prone to failure or issues at a rate higher than normal it certainly would show up in customer feedback. You can see nothing of the sort however. On newegg the i5-2500k and i7-2600k have 629 reviews and only 10 of them give the processor 1 or 2 stars. Of those ten a few are related to the recall issue and a number of the others have to do with the performance of the onboard video. There's only one complaining about general bugginess. So this issue simply doesn't exist.

@OP: I suggest you change your definition of what is a "reliable" source of information if they are telling you to avoid Sandy Bridge chips. You say the shops are for "used" computers... quite possibly they have no used Sandy Bridge based computers because they are so new so telling you anything other than to avoid them is basically asking you not to buy from them. Salesmen should not be considered a reliable source of info on the products they sell. Their main goal is to make money off of you rather than to provide you with accurate information.

 

[jjb8675309]

Actually this is precisely the kind of issue where they can prove useful. If these chips were prone to failure or issues at a rate higher than normal it certainly would show up in customer feedback. You can see nothing of the sort however. On newegg the i5-2500k and i7-2600k have 629 reviews and only 10 of them give the processor 1 or 2 stars. Of those ten a few are related to the recall issue and a number of the others have to do with the performance of the onboard video. There's only one complaining about general bugginess. So this issue simply doesn't exist.

@OP: I suggest you change your definition of what is a "reliable" source of information if they are telling you to avoid Sandy Bridge chips. You say the shops are for "used" computers... quite possibly they have no used Sandy Bridge based computers because they are so new so telling you anything other than to avoid them is basically asking you not to buy from them. Salesmen should not be considered a reliable source of info on the products they sell. Their main goal is to make money off of you rather than to provide you with accurate information.

I totally agree with the second paragraph. The shop owner likely want to push there old crap that has been sitting on the shelves for years now...

I hadn't looked at the newegg reviews although I was just using something like that as a bad source of info sometimes, like when people bitch about components they do not know how to use in the first place...

The bottom line is that the SB chips are excellent and would come with a highly regarded recommendation from almost anyone on this forum...

 

[ntr11023]

Actually this is precisely the kind of issue where they can prove useful. If these chips were prone to failure or issues at a rate higher than normal it certainly would show up in customer feedback. You can see nothing of the sort however. On newegg the i5-2500k and i7-2600k have 629 reviews and only 10 of them give the processor 1 or 2 stars. Of those ten a few are related to the recall issue and a number of the others have to do with the performance of the onboard video. There's only one complaining about general bugginess. So this issue simply doesn't exist.

@OP: I suggest you change your definition of what is a "reliable" source of information if they are telling you to avoid Sandy Bridge chips. You say the shops are for "used" computers... quite possibly they have no used Sandy Bridge based computers because they are so new so telling you anything other than to avoid them is basically asking you not to buy from them. Salesmen should not be considered a reliable source of info on the products they sell. Their main goal is to make money off of you rather than to provide you with accurate information.

Well, apparently he was more of a salesperson than I thought. I was doing some pricing, and I found that their prices are outrageous! $120 for an Nvidia Geforce GTX 210 when Amazon sells it for under $50. He was trying to sell me either a GTX 210 or a GTX 240, saying that he had several customers who were perfectly content with them. I did some benchmarking, and those cards don't perform to my standards. I don't think I'll be going back there any time soon. I'll stick with Fry's and Ebay.

Speaking of graphics cards, I need another opinion for another computer I'm improving. This one has a Clarksdale Intel Core I3-530 @2.93ghz. The PSU and RAM are not a factor. I'm going to upgrade both of them. So, what is the best card I can get for the processor? I was looking at 2 cards: the Nvidia Geforce GTX 250 and the Nvidia Geforce GTX 295. The 295 is hitting the magic number of 90fps in World of Warcraft: Cataclysm with Ultra graphics, so I should be able to run LOTRO on Ultra-high graphics around 90fps (since my friend can hit between 60-90fps on a Core 2 Duo with a 7950GT). The question is if I plugged a 295 into the i3 board, what would bottleneck: the CPU or GPU, and would it perform better than the 250? Also, if you have a suggestion on another card, go ahead and tell me.

 

[jyjjy]

There is no GTX 250. It's either the GTX 260 or GTS 250. The GTX 295 is a dual gpu card that is much more powerful/expensive than either. Both cards are from 3 generations ago so I'm not sure where you came up with those as the cards to look at. I don't think they even sell the GTX 295 new these days. There are much better choice from the current and last generation. If you want a powerful but well priced GPU this HD5850 is a very good deal;
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102932
The HD5850 is many times faster than the 7950GT. I'm not sure why you care about 90 fps. The vast majority of LCD monitors max out at a 60hz refresh rate. This means they can only physically display 60 frames per second. Even if they could display more it is questionable whether you would be able to note any difference. What resolution would you be using for the i3 system?