Best Rendering CPUs

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Techmite

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Jun 15, 2016
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Hello everyone,

I am a professional CAD Tech., and I am looking to build some additional Desktop or Rack PC's for work, and I wanted to know what you guys think of Xeons and such for RENDERING PURPOSES ONLY.

We use them in our machines for CAD (xeon E3's dual cores)-I know, not impressive, and they aren't very good for that type of work (the i5/i7 intel's with higher cores and HT do much better when paired with good GPUs and RAM, and mhz haven't seemed to impact it much either)

In the past, I have used over 75 PCs in a cloud for rendering, but those machines were intel based, and ran a bit slow in my opinion. I would also like to know if anyone has experience with cloud based xeons (single and double CPUs) for this purpose.

I am not interested in GPU, RAM, or SSD info, as I am already familiar with building high-end PC's (I own a few that are well over $5-$10k). I am familiar with Intel's Extreme i7's (I own a few), and I am finding them to be inadequate for the degree of rendering I do (ultra-realistic)-but they are very good for actively working in the models. I found that GPU's are often ignored for rendering images, especially when used in a render cloud, so that is why I am focusing on only CPU info.

These PCs do not need high performing parts beyond the CPU because they are not used for anything else except Rendering static images over a cloud. For the most part, they won't even be accessed individually. Side note, I mostly use 3DS Max for rendering (if this makes a difference).

Thanks!
 
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With your rendering, Id grab two Intel Xeon 2699 v4 cpus. That would give you 44 cores of rendering power (22 cores each) and they run about 4 grand each. If money is an issue then I would go with one of those cpus. Your rendering will extremely benefit from all of those cores and the extremely high amount of cache. But if you want just a 300$ cpu I would go with the 4790K, Ive used it with rendering a still image in 3dsMaxs and it took 14 minutes to render the entire 32K resolution file. 4k and below were rendered in less than 30 seconds.
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With your rendering, Id grab two Intel Xeon 2699 v4 cpus. That would give you 44 cores of rendering power (22 cores each) and they run about 4 grand each. If money is an issue then I would go with one of those cpus. Your rendering will extremely benefit from all of those cores and the extremely high amount of cache. But if you want just a 300$ cpu I would go with the 4790K, Ive used it with rendering a still image in 3dsMaxs and it took 14 minutes to render the entire 32K resolution file. 4k and below were rendered in less than 30 seconds.
 
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I agree with Keelin Ty regarding the dual Xeon setup. There are a full range of new Xeons (E5-2600 v4 series) that offer high core counts with HT and decent clock speeds. The cheapest models with HT are the E5-2620 v4 which is an 8c/16t proc for ~$400.oo, so you could easily put together a 16c/32t setup for only ~$800.oo for processors. Now if you are looking for more capability than that you can range all the way up to the E5-2699 v4 as mentioned by Keelin Ty for a dual processor setup, but if that is not enough, you can look into a quad-processor system built on the E5-4600 v4 or E7-4800 v4, or even go as strong as an 8 processor setup with the E7-8800 v4 processors. The latter two would be rack units, of course, but could you imagine? The E7-8890 v4 is a 24 core processor that can be placed into a system with 7 others resulting in a 192c/384t setup! Oof! Those processors go for ~$7200.oo however. The only real limits are your true need for processing power and your budget.

I also render 3D imagery through Raylectron which is totally cpu bound (if you use the cpu version, there is also a gpu version available) and am currently designing and will be building a dual processor system built on the E5-2620 v4. Total system cost will be ~$2600.oo and should keep me working for about five years, and then at that point I will upgrade the processors to two 14 to 16 core processors when they get cheaper (and/or highly available as with the Facebook dump of the E5-2670 recently).

Here are some links for more info:
http://ark.intel.com/products/family/91287/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-v4-Family#@Server
http://ark.intel.com/products/family/93797/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E7-v4-Family#@Server

Cloud rendering is a cool concept, but in my opinion it is too many moving parts that are out of your control handling your intellectual property...not optimal in my opinion, so I say keep the processing in-house.

I hope this gives you food for thought!

Update: I may have misunderstood that your cloud rendering possibly was performed by a system in-house, which would make my comment about moving parts out of your control rather moot🙂
 
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He is also asking if those CPUs could handle every game on max. The thing is Xeons are horrible for gaming, they just arent built for it. They shine when you are gaming, rendering, streaming all at the same time. But Id suggest a 6950X with 32gb of DDR4 ram. I think that will give the perfect balance between gaming performance and rendering performance. Opinions?
 
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Hmm...I re-read the original post and didn't see any question about gaming? As far as I can tell Techmite is looking for a rendering setup for 3D creation for business purposes only, and gaming is not a need for the system. I would not recommend the 6950X. For ~$1700.oo you can get can get 2 Xeon E5-2630 v4 or 2 E5-2640 v4. These are both 10 core processors that for professional purposes would be a far better fit and far more reliable processor.

The 6950X is way too overpriced for what it offers and will likely not see much success in market. There are already many reviewers saying the same and recommending looking at the Xeons even for gaming if someone wants that many cores. Price/performance is not on the table with the 6950X, and you can build a far more capable machine for a lot less.

Also, for cpu based rendering, I have found a good average for RAM is ~4GB per physical core...32GB of RAM may not be enough for 3D rendering on a single 10 core proc, for once you see 20 threads kicked up you are looking at maybe 1.5GB available to each thread...this could be an ok allotment for 3DS Max (I am not a user of that program, so I don't know the needs) but could be a potential performance bottleneck for that type of work.

Here is a conversation I had on the topic: http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-3083381/thoughts-potential-ram-bottleneck.html

I still believe a dual proc/64GB RAM system is the minimum that should be considered and may even be too small for the needs of the business.
 
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I guess it might have been a different post that I was thinking of then. Yes i agree, if its for rendering only dual cpu and 64-128gb of ram. Either that or have a rendering server with 4 xeons and 512gb of ram. But im not sure if AutoDesk software allows for exports to a rendering server like Adobe Media Encoder does
 
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Greetings again!

I have mixed posts up before as well🙂 The build option you put together got me thinking, so I did a little more digging...

Sadly, it looks like the Asus Z10PE-D16 WS does not appear to support that processor: https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/Z10PED16_WS/HelpDesk_CPU/...and a limited search seems to point to the E5-4600 v4 are primarily intended for a 4 processor setup...though I could not locate a retail availability for the E5-4600 v4s online. Supermicro is probably the best source for an applicable motherboard for that processor. However, the Asus board would be a good choice if a dual E5-2600 v4 processors arrangement was utilized, though there have been quite a few low reviews on that board, so maybe again, a Supermicro option might be a better direction to look.

Ooh! Where did you find a 4669 for $2800? That is an amazing deal! The best I can find for anything like that is a used v3 on ebay for $4000: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Xeon-E5-4669-v3-45M-Cache-2-10GHz-18CORE-SR22M-CPU-CM8064401864100-4669V3-/111835276864

Here is one idea for a high core dual Xeon system: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/AlbionMoon/saved/#view=YDd48d for just over $7000.oo

The Antec case you suggest may be better, for I just went with something simple, not knowing Techmite's tastes, and I left the storage option open just in case that was already in place within Techmite's company. If there are multiple folk rendering simultaneously from the system though, even this build may not be enough and a 4 processor unit might have to be considered. I also included only one GTX 1070 in the build to provide output to a monitor(s) for this is a cheaper solution and will cover any base the Titan can tackle easily, and has outperformed the Titan in many tests for around half the cost. Since rendering is cpu intensive, this card could remain viable under these conditions for years and see longer driver support into the future than the Titan from this point on.

I also am not sure about Autodesk's export capability, for I don't use that particular program, but I would assume that if a render farm/cloud was used in the past by Techmite, the capability may be there...Techmite? Any thoughts on our conversation here?
 
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Agreed.
Any input Techmite? If you have any suggestions on what you want/need we would gladly use that info to help come up with the best computer suited for your company needs.
And Albionm00nb, which do you think would be better for the professional build? A 1070/1080 or a more professional grade Quadro? The Quadro would have longer driver support and they are cherry picked chips. Well I guess the money that he saves with getting a 1070/1080, he could use to buy a new card in the future with more performance rather than buying a Quadro.
 
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The Quadros are beautiful cards...if they apply to your programs. Where the Quadros shine above the consumer cards is in specific driver support for professional level programs. I considered a Quadro for my build until I learned that the programs I use (Sketchup and Raylectron) are not supported by Nvidia workstation drivers, so the 1070 ended up being a better choice for me. Since I am not a gamer, this card should last me a long time. Here is the build I am hoping to put together for myself in a month or two: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/AlbionMoon/saved/#view=rVhRsY

I believe Solidworks is one of those programs where a Quadro would be a far superior choice for it is specifically supported by the drivers. 3DS Max appears to be one of these programs as well now that I look into it: http://www.nvidia.com/object/maxtreme_workstation.html, so yes, in this case the Quadro would add computing benefit and may be the better choice for Techmite🙂
 
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Also, here is a thread I found on the E5-4600 v4/motherboard setup: http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2867837/dual-cpu-motherboard-4669.html

And upon further digging: https://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon7000/#2011
It appears anything for a 4 processor setup is going to be proprietary, so a deeper dig for system builders utilizing these setups may be in order, for it does not seem to be available to the standard consumer level builder, however, here is one company that provides such systems: https://www.pugetsystems.com/nav/peak/quad_xeon/customize.php
 
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Techmite,

The original post mentioned CPU information only, but in reality, the overall system need consideration as rendering is demanding of every subsystem: CPU, RAM, GPU, and disk. The single-threaded performance (really = the clock speed) of the CPU is not important - as it is for the modelling system.

If the rendering is primarily CPU-centric- and as far as I know, VRay in 3Ds is, in my view the best choice fro CPU will be an 8-core Xeon E5 -2600 series, version one.tThese are LGA2011 can use up to 12-core CPU's instead of 4, and the memory bandwidth is double, E5-2600 can use 384GB of RAM as compared to 32GB of LGA1150, plus increased PCIe lanes- 40 instead of 28. This series has been mentioned in other comments here for good reason- you can buy a $1,500 8-core for $60-70.

A single 8-core is recommended as very few rendering programs take full advantages of more than 5-6 cores though there is still benefit. Typically, there will be acceleration up to 8-cores, but after that, it's not as efficient. In the case of Adobe, having dual CPU's can actually slow the progress. Solidworks rendering is an exception and will continue to improve efficiency as far as the system capacity. Scientific applications like Matlab do it as well, but have to be customized by someone expert in multi-threading. The argument is to consider the workload in terms of the fastest possible completion of a single rendering or the fastest completion of multiple renderings. For the fastest possible single, have dual 8 or 10-core Xeons for the fastest multiple, have more, single CPU systems- that can be made dual Xeon later if need be.

The situation will improve with time, but at the moment, the best cost / performance solution might be to buy a number of identical, used workstations with low specification Xeon E5 CPU's, buy them with or change them to an E5-2670 add RAM in at least 8GB modules to have 32GB with the view of an eventual 64GB. If the rendering varies to include GPU rendering, one system, might have a GTX 970, but for 3Ds/ VRay if the renderings are high polygon /texture, include a lot of particles (gas /fog, smoke), reflections, and subtle color gradient, the concentration should be on Quadros : higher double precision, higher anti-aliasing, and 10-bit color. From your description, the probability that the modelling is done on one system and sent to the rendering farm, (which is the way I work), and the system is not individually monitored, or only for progress have a Quadro K600. This will be necessary for setup and maintenance.

As for the systems to use, it depends on the budget. My suggestion would be to consider HP z620 For example:

HP Z620 Workstation 2.60GHz 8 Core E5-2670 16GB RAM 500GB HDD > $479.99 or offer (3 available.)

In this example, there are three systems with the Xeon E5-2670 and 16GB RAM, 500GB HD, and no GPU. The seller- (who I don't know) has 6 or 7 other similar listings with multiple units. A good reason to buy a z620 is the ability to add a 2nd CPU later. This requires a CPU /heatsink/ fan /memory riser board (about $125-150), RAM corresponding to the second CPU,and the 2nd CPU. So, if it becomes apparent that the rendering program benefits from every core of any description- and GPU, the system can expand the CPU capability.

An z620 / single E5-2670 / on Passmark:

Rating: 3653
CPU: 13355
2D: 632 (Quadro 2000)
3D: 1701
Me: 2556 (64GB)
Disk: 1304 (Seagate 1TB)

Some of those scores are not very high ratings as the GPU is modest and the HD is mech'l. The key rating though is the CPU and 13355 meaning there are a lot of calculation cycles /sec.

To the above system, add the Quadro K600, RAM, a Samsung 850 Evo 250GB and appropriate storage drive, and consider a RAID 1. In this scenario, I would budget about $900-1,100 for each system. The $1,100 could include dual CPU's and 64GB. The riser board is $150, 32GB of RAM another $150, 2nd CPU $60-70.

A z620 / E5-1620 v2 (4-core @ 3.7 /3.9GHz) with a GTX 970 has a 2D rating of 765 and 3D of 8974. the CUDa cores would provide significant GPU accleleration in rendering. Z420 / 2X E5-2670 /Quadro M4000 has a 2D rating of 522 and 3D of 6112, so the 3D capability of the z620 is high if necessary.

The best feature of this kind of solution is that it is not necessary to research, order, assemble, wire a new system- a system of this kind could be at work within in a couple of hours if the GPU and drives are at hand. The supply is inexhaustible as well. While the systems are up and working, and the second CPU is seen as an advantage, the parts and installation can be gradual. Adding the 2nd CPU- if the board is readied with the CPU and memory mounted, can be done in half an hour- plug in and enable the 2nd CPU in BIOS.

While the performance is not the pinnacle by any means, the multiplicity of systems possible due to the price means that far more cores will be applied to the work. A $11,000 dual 12-core Xeon E5-2600 v4 will not finish the same rendering eleven times faster than the $1000 z620 and in fact the eleven z620's might process eight renderings in the same time as the Xeon E5-2600 v4, because they can all work on separate renderings and the overall efficiency will be higher on multiple CPU's fewer cores of higher clock speed. As for cost /perfomance, see the comparison with the high budget suggestion below.

Performance and reliability of this kind of system should be very good. The MTBF of the E5-2670 is 170,000 hours or 19.4 years continuously. I have two HP z420's 2013 and 2015 and reliability has been 100% of every component.

Sorry for such a long ramble surplus to the CPU-only query, but the overall system efficiency and cost /performance system with system multiplicity is essential in my view. You can spend a lot more money if the performance has to be the top in every aspect, or object to used equipment, but in my experience with used workstations for this purpose- first a Dell Precision T5400 (2X Xeon X5460), now a T5500 and with 100% reliability over a total of 7-years use, I would have the 10 cheap systems to the equivalent total cost 1 expensive one.

However, if your budget is a higher, I have another answer:

BambiBoom Pixel Cannon Rendermaticgraphilicious iWork TurboSignature Extreme RendalBlast 9800 ®©$$™®£™©™_1.15.16 Revised 6.26.16

Case /Motherboard /Power supply : Supermicro SuperWorkstation SYS-7048A-T Dual LGA2011 1200W 4U Rackmount/Tower Workstation Barebone System (Black) > $1,000

https://www.supermicro.com.tw/products/system/4U/7047/SYS-7047A-T.cfm
Supermicro SuperWorkstation SYS-7048A-T Dual LGA2011 1200W 4U Rackmount/Tower Workstation Barebone System (Black)

CPU: 2X Xeon Intel Xeon E5-2630 v4 Ten-Core Broadwell Processor 2.2 / 3.1GHz 8.0GT/s 25MB LGA 2011-3 CPU, OEM, 85W > $1,256 ($628 each)

http://ark.intel.com/products/75275
http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=E5-2630V4

Memory: 64GB (8x 8GB) Samsung DDR4-2400 64GB/8Gx4 ECC/REG CL17 Server Memory > $800

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=12K-00WZ-00010&cm_re=8GB_DDR3-1866_ECC_unbuffered-_-12K-00WZ-00010-_-Product

GPU: PNY Quadro K420 VCQK420-PB 1GB 128-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card > $123.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA2F83MX7948&cm_re=quadro_K420-_-14-133-561-_-Product

RAID Controller : Future:

Drive 1: SAMSUNG 850 EVO 2.5" 500GB SATA III 3-D Vertical Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) MZ-75E500B/AM> $158.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA2W02DV8166&cm_re=samsung_850_EVO-_-20-147-373-_-Product

Drives 2, 3: 2X WD Black 2TB Performance Desktop Hard Disk Drive - 7200 RPM SATA 6 Gb/s 64MB Cache 3.5 Inch - WD2003FZEX> $258 ($128ea) (Files, Backup, System Image)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236624&cm_re=Western_Digital_Black_2_TB-_-22-236-624-_-Product

Optical Disk: SAMSUNG DVD Burner 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 24X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM SATA Model SH-224DB/BEBE - OEM > $18

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151266

Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional SP1 64-bit English (1-Pack), OEM > $139.

http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=MSFQC08289
_______________________________________

TOTAL = $3,549

And in this concept, everything is new . The Supermicro X10 DAI is a superb dual LGA2011-3 motherboard and the Superworkstation means the CPU, RAM, GPU, and drives just plug in- fast to completion. These are rated to be very quiet as well. A pair of E5-2630 v4 on Passmark has on a Supernicro X109DAi, a top CPU score of 20390. To put this into perspective, the top HP z620 with 2X E5-2670 8-cores has a high CPU mark of 20484. So, similar performance with a $2,400 price difference.
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Cheers,

BambiBoom

Modeling:

1. HP z420 (2015) > Xeon E5-1660 v2 (6-core @ 3.7 / 4.0GHz) > 32GB DDR3 1866 ECC RAM > Quadro K4200 (4GB) > Samsung SM951 M.2 256GB AHCI / Intel 730 480GB (9SSDSC2BP480G4R5) / Western Digital Black WD1003FZEX 1TB> M-Audio 192 sound card > 600W PSU> > Windows 7 Professional 64-bit > Logitech z2300 speakers > 2X Dell Ultrasharp U2715H (2560 X 1440)>
[ Passmark Rating = 5581 > CPU= 14046 / 2D= 838 / 3D= 4694 / Mem= 2777 / Disk= 11559] [6.12.16]

Rendering:

2. Dell Precision T5500 (2011) (Revised) > 2X Xeon X5680 (6-core @ 3.33 / 3.6GHz), 48GB DDR3 1333 ECC Reg. > Quadro K2200 (4GB ) > PERC H310 / Samsung 840 250GB / WD RE4 Enterprise 1TB > M-Audio 192 sound card > Logitech z313 > 875W PSU > Windows 7 Professional 64> HP 2711x (27", 1920 X 1080)
[ Passmark system rating = 3844 > CPU = 15047 / 2D= 662 / 3D= 3550 / Mem= 1785 / Disk= 2649] (12.30.15)






 
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