Best sub 200 dollar musical production headphones for EDM?

[Kolzach]

I'm a musician that needs a new pair of headphones so I can hear what sounds I'm really making.
I was planning on getting the Sony MDR-V6's, MDR-7506's or maybe even a pair of AKG K 240's as their pretty cheap right now.

I don't know a lot about headphones, but I know for musical production they need to be as accurate as possible, let me know what sub 200 dollar headphones you guys think would be good for EDM production.

 

[shotgunz]

Headphones definitely "break in". The ear pads compress, getting worn into the shape of your head, giving you a better seal and move the drivers slightly towards your ear. My HD800 pads have broken into the shape of my head.

You also get used to the sound. Three years ago when I got my first non garbage pair of headphones (Koss KSC-75), I was like HOLY CRAP I CAN HEAR BASS SO AMAZING AND DAT TREBLE but found the bass to be rather excessive. Today I still listen to a newer pair of KSC-75 that I purchased about three months ago but don't find the bass overwhelming since I've gotten used to hearing bass.

As for the driver breaking in, yes it would physically make sense that would happen but I haven't seen any measurements on the effects burn in on just the drivers.

Anyways...

The 250ohm DT880 will generally be a better choice since the 600ohm version is more so for running off of things like tube amplifiers or gear that produces lots of voltage.

As for the treble spike, sometimes it's actually enjoyable to listen to (for me that is, i'm used to listening to brighter than neutral headphones) but other times it's just painful with badly mastered or the wrong kind of music. It definitely has a spike there though, so it's not a good thing for musical production.

 

[Kolzach]

Headphones definitely "break in". The ear pads compress, getting worn into the shape of your head, giving you a better seal and move the drivers slightly towards your ear. My HD800 pads have broken into the shape of my head.

You also get used to the sound. Three years ago when I got my first non garbage pair of headphones (Koss KSC-75), I was like HOLY CRAP I CAN HEAR BASS SO AMAZING AND DAT TREBLE but found the bass to be rather excessive. Today I still listen to a newer pair of KSC-75 that I purchased about three months ago but don't find the bass overwhelming since I've gotten used to hearing bass.

As for the driver breaking in, yes it would physically make sense that would happen but I haven't seen any measurements on the effects burn in on just the drivers.

Anyways...

The 250ohm DT880 will generally be a better choice since the 600ohm version is more so for running off of things like tube amplifiers or gear that produces lots of voltage.

As for the treble spike, sometimes it's actually enjoyable to listen to (for me that is, i'm used to listening to brighter than neutral headphones) but other times it's just painful with badly mastered or the wrong kind of music. It definitely has a spike there though, so it's not a good thing for musical production.

Yeah I think for that reason I'm settling for the K612's. Thanks for the help guys I'll let you know how they are once they get delivered.

Oh, and by the way, if any of you are interested the K7XX's are on MASSDROP right now for 200 dollars.

 

[gondo]

Here in Canada the Q701 Quincy Jones and 702 models are $350-$400. $200 is a good deal. The 612s are $275 here.

Would be nice to live in the US were prices are reasonable.

 

[shotgunz]

612's are $224 CAD at my local A/V store

http://www.avshop.ca/sound-amp-pa-audio/headphones/over-ear-headphones/akg-k-612-pro-studio-headphones

If you are in Toronto, want to meet up at like a mcdonalds or something and hear eachother's headphones?

 

[gondo]

Sorry I'm in New Brunswick. I was using prices from Amazon and Long and McQuade. AVShop prices are pretty much on par with Long and McQuade.

 

[Kolzach]

The headphones finally arrived today and I can't believe the sound quality, just wow. I figured I'd need an amp with them as I've read from a lot of posts that some people can't get a comfortable listening volume out of them. But for some reason I could blow my ears out with these if I wanted, so I don't know what that's all about. My only complaint with these headphones is that the highs seem to overpower the mids and lows and it's a little fatiguing, but I think that'll sort it's self out after they "break in" a little bit. Overall great headphones, if someone could explain to me or help me figure out why I don't need an amp for these I'd appreciate it.

 

[ssddx]

what did you end up getting?

 

[Kolzach]

what did you end up getting?

The AKG K 612's

 

[gondo]

The sensitivity of the 612's is 101 deciblels of sound pressure level per volt of input.

The voltage output of your device will determine the volume of your headphones in a nutshell. Your headphones are very sensitive so it doesn't take much to drive them. And the device your using is probably better than something like a plain old cell phone. AKGs are known as fairly sensitive phones which was one reason I choose them myself. I could drive them from my cell phone if desired.

Now volume aside, an external DAC and headphone amp would also give you better sound quality on top of the extra volume.

 

[ssddx]

hmm interesting.. unless akg changed their specs over time akg cans like the k701/q701 used to be pretty power hungry. given that i dont use or listen to akg cans perhaps i missed that and they are now less hungry.. though its still recommended by many to use an amp. i suppose i'll have to dig around a bit more to see whats the current scenario.

given the high sensitivity by specs alone they should be able to be easily driven...

the k612 is not a bassy headphone so will never had superb bass levels. if you want to make them a bit warmer you could certainly try a fiio amplifier which will impart a bit more midbass and bass warmth to the sound stream. or, if you like them as they are you could EQ the treble down a notch with what you have now.

 

[shotgunz]

You could EQ down 6kz to 9khz like 2 or 3 dB if you find them fatiguing. Most of the neutral headphones can sound fatiguing when playing songs with abundance of treble. Can also follow the graph and boost the sub bass a few dB to make the bass levels slightly more accurate.

 

[shotgunz]

hmm interesting.. unless akg changed their specs over time akg cans like the k701/q701 used to be pretty power hungry.

Tyll at innerfidelity measures how much power headphones need to reach 90dB SPL. AKG 600 and 700 series headphones have lower sensitivity and need more power than their direct competitors in the price range.

K701 (62Ω) Volts RMS required to reach 90dB SPL: 0.320 Vrms Power Needed for 90d BSPL 1.57 mW
K612 (120Ω) 0.352 Vrms 0.99 mW
Sennheiser HD600 (300Ω) 0.230 Vrms 0.17 mW
Beyerdynamic DT880 (250Ω) 0.299 Vrms 0.38 mW

I demoed a K612 in a mini headfi meet last november and it was about 5dB quieter than a HD800 plugged into my JDS Labs C5D

 

[Kolzach]

The sensitivity of the 612's is 101 deciblels of sound pressure level per volt of input.

The voltage output of your device will determine the volume of your headphones in a nutshell. Your headphones are very sensitive so it doesn't take much to drive them. And the device your using is probably better than something like a plain old cell phone. AKGs are known as fairly sensitive phones which was one reason I choose them myself. I could drive them from my cell phone if desired.

Now volume aside, an external DAC and headphone amp would also give you better sound quality on top of the extra volume.

I was planning on getting either the O2 AMP/ODAC combo or the Shiit stack. I'm also looking at the xDuoo TA-01 DAC/AMP right now.

And yes I'm just driving the headphones with motherboard audio right now.

 

[Kolzach]

You could EQ down 6kz to 9khz like 2 or 3 dB if you find them fatiguing. Most of the neutral headphones can sound fatiguing when playing songs with abundance of treble. Can also follow the graph and boost the sub bass a few dB to make the bass levels slightly more accurate.

I found out why it was a little fatiguing, I had Sound Blaster Cinema 2 on without me knowing (it comes with the MSI mobo's, I got the Z97 Gaming 5), it was boosting the highs a bit too much so I turned it off completely. Does Windows 7 have a built in EQ that I can use? besides the one in windows media player I mean.

 

[ssddx]

no. the eq would be in your sound software (your motherboard sound drivers). there are a few "3rd party" solutions for windows eq but i'm not sure if they work, if they are safe and all the details on them.

o2/odac is good, the magni/modi stack is also great. not sure about xduoo as i've never heard of them. for on the cheap the fiio e10k is a good choice

 

[Kolzach]

So apparently my MSI Z97 Gaming 5 mobo has some sort of amp built inside of it, which might explain me not needing an amp? https://gaming.msi.com/article/audio-boost-2-theory-and-practice

 

[Kolzach]

no. the eq would be in your sound software (your motherboard sound drivers). there are a few "3rd party" solutions for windows eq but i'm not sure if they work, if they are safe and all the details on them.

o2/odac is good, the magni/modi stack is also great. not sure about xduoo as i've never heard of them. for on the cheap the fiio e10k is a good choice

I've heard that the Shiit stack isn't as accurate as the O2 combo though, not sure if that's true.

 

[ssddx]

from what i've heard, the schiit stack is incredibly transparent. the magni is also a stronger amplifier than the o2 if i recall correctly. both are nice setups though depending on what you're looking for. perhaps some of the guys over at headfi have had the chance to compare the two together.

all onboard audio (and soundcards) already have amps. its not a question of if it does.. but how powerful it is. some of the better onboard has a stronger amp meant for headphone use which is why many hifi headphones will work - though this does not mean they will power them as well as dedicated equipment - it really depends on the can.

 

[shotgunz]

Uh oh. We've already gotten you thinking about amps and dacs. Well designed amps working within thier power limits don't sound very different. I personally would get the stack or JDS Labs Element. Both will power almost all headphones to levels that will hurt your ears so just pick the one with features more important to you. The Element is more compact and has a big, smooth, satisfying knob ontop.

Just enjoy your new headphones for now and save your wallet.

Also, if you're looking for a system wide EQ, equalizer APO with the peace GUI may work out for you.

 

[Kolzach]

Uh oh. We've already gotten you thinking about amps and dacs. Well designed amps working within thier power limits don't sound very different. I personally would get the stack or JDS Labs Element. Both will power almost all headphones to levels that will hurt your ears so just pick the one with features more important to you. The Element is more compact and has a big, smooth, satisfying knob ontop.

Just enjoy your new headphones for now and save your wallet.

Also, if you're looking for a system wide EQ, equalizer APO with the peace GUI may work out for you.

I'm not planning on buying anything else right now, I might buy something next month when I have the money.
Thanks I'll download the EQ and try it out.

 

[gondo]

Yes that board has the a headset amplifier. And a nice one at that....for a motherboard. Only thing missing is the extreme DAC the higher model MSI's have. Read up in the manual to know which connector to use and how to set the switch on the motherboard.

That motherboard also delivers a true 5V USB signal so any external DAC you use will work properly. With studios, they often add PCI USB cards to improve the USB signals for their DACS because they have thousands of dollars worth of audio equipment with shit computers . You won't have that problem.

Your motherboard also use Creative Cinema software to control the audio. Set it for headphones, and pick your options. You can get the virtual surround sound from headphones which isn't bad. For the EQ you can use the one in your motherboard audio software to affect everything, or the EQ built into your music player to affect only your music. The latter is usually preferred so your movies and gaming doesn't use the same EQ as your music.

Winamp, VLC, Media Monkey, etc... any music player you use will have a built in EQ. I'm a Media Monkey fan myself. Sometimes the audio software has a nice EQ that you enjoy so you can just use that...I use to use some settings from Creative that I liked and used it across the board.

Since you have half decent sound as it is, an external DAC will not be a super vast improvement. It won't be night and day. It's not like going from a cheap motherboard to a high end DAC. That being said check out Emotiva DACs. They are generally regarded as being the best in their price range. Check the reviews and they agree with me. They make 2 smaller ones for desktop computer use, and they have a larger one suited for a home theatre with dual headphone amps and balanced outputs for speakers. Check them out and they are what I would recommend unless you want to go swimming in $600+ territory. But in the meantime enjoy your motherboard audio and you may not even want to waste money with a DAC since you already have something on board. Enjoy the headphones mate!!!!

 

[Kolzach]

Yes that board has the a headset amplifier. And a nice one at that....for a motherboard. Only thing missing is the extreme DAC the higher model MSI's have. Read up in the manual to know which connector to use and how to set the switch on the motherboard.

That motherboard also delivers a true 5V USB signal so any external DAC you use will work properly. With studios, they often add PCI USB cards to improve the USB signals for their DACS because they have thousands of dollars worth of audio equipment with shit computers . You won't have that problem.

Your motherboard also use Creative Cinema software to control the audio. Set it for headphones, and pick your options. You can get the virtual surround sound from headphones which isn't bad. For the EQ you can use the one in your motherboard audio software to affect everything, or the EQ built into your music player to affect only your music. The latter is usually preferred so your movies and gaming doesn't use the same EQ as your music.

Winamp, VLC, Media Monkey, etc... any music player you use will have a built in EQ. I'm a Media Monkey fan myself. Sometimes the audio software has a nice EQ that you enjoy so you can just use that...I use to use some settings from Creative that I liked and used it across the board.

Since you have half decent sound as it is, an external DAC will not be a super vast improvement. It won't be night and day. It's not like going from a cheap motherboard to a high end DAC. That being said check out Emotiva DACs. They are generally regarded as being the best in their price range. Check the reviews and they agree with me. They make 2 smaller ones for desktop computer use, and they have a larger one suited for a home theatre with dual headphone amps and balanced outputs for speakers. Check them out and they are what I would recommend unless you want to go swimming in $600+ territory. But in the meantime enjoy your motherboard audio and you may not even want to waste money with a DAC since you already have something on board. Enjoy the headphones mate!!!!

Thanks for all the info man, I don't think I'll be getting an AMP anytime soon, this mobo is pretty juicy.

Are any DAC's different from one another? I know that a 30 dollar UAC222 probably doesn't sound as good as a 99 dollar Modi 2 or something like that. But do any DAC's have frequency bumps? I only want accurate audio and I don't know which DAC's are flat and good quality.

 

[shotgunz]

Upgrading your DAC gives you a small amount of improvement. It's what changes digital information into an electrical signal. The main thing you will notice between onboard and discrete DACs is there is less static in the background and the highs/lows may extend a little farther.