[SOLVED] Best time to upgrade a 4790K system in next few years?

Apr 12, 2021
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Hi all, there have likely been lots of similar discussions recently (been reading a few on Tech PowerUp forums myself), realise it is a vague question but I'd be interested in thoughts about when/whether to upgrade a Z97 i7-4790K DDR3 system to something new in the coming years?

The recent history of my system is that it started with an H87 ATX board and an i5-4570 back in 2013 and has been upgraded (via eBay) into a Z97 micro-ATX (Asus Maximus Gene Vii) and i7-4790K (micro-ATX to fit in my beloved TJ08-E). My Win 8.1 install has remained throughout and is solid. I personally prefer the stability and (maybe percieved?) control I have over this OS and I've preferred not to move to Win10 so far (I have it on a Surface Go and find aspects of what it automatically does / changes to be a bit frustrating). Part of the reason why I went for as good a 4th Gen system as I could was to set me up until 2023 when I will have to retire my Win 8.1 installation - I don't overclock or game very heavily, but I do multi-task at times stress my system so I like having something capable.

I have some components that I can carry over to a new build, such as a PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSD (Samsung 980 PRO 1TB) and RTX 2060 StormX, but my 32GB DDR3 is obviously not going anywhere.

Because I haven't built anything new for so long I was out of the loop on lots of stuff, it sure has been interesting to read about AMD's rise! And simultaneously a bit sad to see that Intel haven't been doing so great at hitting back so far. But of course I've also discovered that now is not an ideal time to be planning a major upgrade! :neutral:

I've read lots of advice which helps me realise that I don't need to upgrade right now, and I am pretty happy with my system - one exception being random reboots that I get and can't track down (see here). Fingers crossed I can sort out those problems and if I do, I could run this system for some time yet.

However, I've also been reading that waiting for AM5 (or whatever it will be called) or Intel 12th Gen might well mean waiting a good few years until they are stable and Windows is properly ready for them. I've missed the DDR3 -> DDR4 transition myself but I hear that it took time, and the same could be said about the move to DDR5. I've read opinion that MS will take a while to get to grips with Intel's Big.Little architecture, and I can believe it.

What I'm struggling with is - if I want to upgrade before late-2022, should I do it now and grab a B550 & Zen 3 (or Intel 11th / 10th gen) system with DDR4, or wait for the new stuff? Is it likely that by, say, October 2022 the new platforms will be mature enough to be worth moving to? Or will it take longer, such that my system might fall too far behind?
 

Karadjgne

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When DDR4 first showed up, it was a mess. It was so new and had the same 2133MHz/2400MHz that ppl were getting with DDR3, except the DDR4 timings were worse and could be somewhat unstable if pushed. Literally you got better results with DDR3 2400. Same thing happened with the DDR2-DDR3 move, multiple boards claiming slots for both.

So the changeover had several hiccups and it took a while, and some higher speed ram, and in Ryzens case, multiple ongoing fixes to get a good performance stable pc that showed worthwhile gains over prior gen pc's.

I can't imagine that the initial release of DDR5 will be much different, especially with whatever AMD does with AM5 (or AM4+ or whatever they name the new platform) and the mix with Infinity Fabric. Intel is even considering adopting a somewhat similar approach with multiple chipsets, to cut costs of larger, perfect dies for the high end cpus.

The Ryzen 5800x only costs what it does because it has an 8 core chip, with perfect silicon, to get all 8 cores. The 5600x is the exact same 8 core chip, but at least 1 core is bunk, so amd disables a second core and you get a 6 core cpu with an 8 core die. In affect the 5600x is nothing more than a rejected 5800x.

That saves AMD a ton of cash, and Intel is thinking about that too.

So new platforms, new possibilities, new headaches. It might be 3-4 years before DDR5 is vested and realistically viable and decent.

This has been discussed pretty much every single generational release for as long as I can remember, and I've been building, tinkering and fixing pc's for 40 years now (don't go there lol).

But after 8 years of service (just retired my 3770k) I was due for upgrade, and did, and am happy with the results. I could have waited, but I'd have paid a whole lot more for my 2070Super.

Good things are not the only things around the corner, ask anyone whom waited anxiously for Broadwell or 11th Gen Intel i9's.
 
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If you have need now want now, buy now.
If you wait for the next best thing, you will wait forever.
In two years, you will see DDR5 and new chipsets to go along with new processors.
And, I bet if you wait until then, you will see that more good things are coming in two more years.
Today, ryzen 5000 and intel 11th gen processors have improved performance per clock.
From a performance point of view, your i7-4790K has 8 threads and a passmark rating of 8060.
That is when all 8 threads are fully occupied.
If your usage is for gaming, it is unlikely that you can effectively use more than 4-6 threads.
The single thread rating is 2468. The performance of the single master thread is what is most important for gaming.
If you run batch multithreaded apps, then the total rating is what counts.
You can buy today, a ryzen 5600x with 12 threads and a rating of 22191/3382. About $380.
Similarly, a I5-11600K will perform similarly with 12 threads and a rating of 19644/3348. About $260.

You will need DDR4 ram. ryzen is tightly tied to ram for performance, the faster the better.
Intel does not much depend on ram speed for performance.

I recently upgraded to a I7-11700K.
One issue I had was that at the time, I could not find any MATX Z590 based motherboards.
I also used a TJ-08E case which I loved. I picked that case primarily because it had limited depth which was necessary for my available space.
Because I was going to upgrade my son's pc, and could use the case, I changed to a HAF XB EVO case which allowed a full size motherboard.
I am well aware of the issues with the TJ-08E as well as the benefits.
The psu length can be an issue. If you did not use the cables that came with the psu, that could be your shutdown issue. I used Seasonic 750w power supplies. Both focus and X versions.

Today, there are a couple of decent MATX Z590 based motherboards available, so that should not be an issue for you. I have seen one from Asrock, and Asus.
Probably the best is the Asus prime Z590M
https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813119373?quicklink=true
Today, overclocking is on the way out as a means to get something for nothing.
Motherboards do a good job of managing turbo which increases clocks to favored cores when conditions permit.
I think it would be very reasonable to buy a B560 bases MATX motherboard.

Included sound is also getting better.
You may not need to carry over your sound card.
In fact sound cards are suspect in strange stability issues.


FWIW, I also use the samsung 980 PRO.
With pcie 4, I tested it with ASSSD and got a total score of 9385 which is the highest I have ever seen.
Good stuff.
 
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Karadjgne

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Stay away from the low end Z590 from ASRock, they are garbage. The best cheap Z590 is the MSI - A Pro or the Gigabyte UHD, but the best of the lower-mid end boards is the Asus TUFF gaming and MSI Torpedo.

There's a lot to be said about waiting, like the expression 'all good things come in time', but that said, when is enough, enough. There's always something better, tomorrow which is why so many get stuck on the concept of 'future proofing' their pc's. Doesn't work that way, but you can't convince them of that.

If you can afford to wait, then wait, it's not going to cost you anything, but if the need is there for an upgrade, then do that and let tomorrow take care of itself. Getting one step more than you need now is advisable, just prolongs the length of time between upgrade necessity, but if you only ever use 6 cores, there's no point in going overboard with a 20 core cpu.
 

LolaGT

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There is no need to upgrade if what you have is doing what you need it to with no issues.
That system can game all day and that CPU can push a lot more GPU than a 2060
(if you could buy one).
If your income relied on it and time is money, that would be the only reason to upgrade right now.
If you are a game only guy and really feel the need then the choice is easy as a good Z590 platform is cheap, and one can buy a 10600k(f) for less than 200 smackers, leaving a long path to upgrade in the future.
Everything hardware is not hard to come by at decent prices right now, excluding video cards.
 
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ScrewySqrl

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The best time to upgrade is whenever you feel your current system is underperforming.

Normally, I and most others here will suggest 'build your own' -- except the silicon shortage has made Graphics cards harder to find than a Honus Wagner baseball card

So for now, a prebuilt is your best option, simply because the builders can get GPUs
 
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Apr 12, 2021
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Thank you for the ideas! I totally hear the "there will always be something two years around the corner", and I'm not really interested in chasing the latest and greatest at all, I'm just thinking about what is best given that I would like to move off my current platform in the next 2 years at some point. Given that is on the horizon, I'm a bit unsure about what would be the best bet. I mean, I liked that I got the most out of Intel 4th Gen over 8 years, but feel that might be more difficult with AM4 / Intel pre-12th Gen now it is nearing the end. Still, if a decent Zen 3 or Intel 10/11 would last me ~5 years then I would be happy with that I think. And actually, I guess I bought an almost end of line socket in 2013 anyway, now I think about it....

I'd probably have to admit there are wants more than needs here, but I have a feeling that I would get an improvement in 2 years time from upgrading no matter what. That still doesn't mean I need to though....! :p But in terms of what I use it for, 8 or less cores would probably be fine. The main time I've stressed my system recently was having too many Firefox tabs open and my system started showing "low on virtual memory" pop-ups - that was quite a surprise, hadn't seen them since Win 98 :LOL:. I do some video encoding and editing and RAW photo editing which does get it going and I do consume 4k media content, but nothing has seemed too much for my system - yet. I would be interested in VR in future though, if I can find a headset that I can get on board with.... (realise that is GPU dependent too). I run at 1440p btw.

@geofelt Re: the TJ08-E, same here! I had a PC cupboard in a desk that was really short, and I looked forever for an ATX case that was short enough, had an ODD slot and allowed 3-4 HDDs.... ended up moving to micro-ATX so I could got with TJ08-E! PSUs are troublesome though... and thanks for the thoughts around the soundcard, I got that really because I had to retire my beloved Soundblaster Audigy with front panel and I missed it, so got a nice sound card with phono-in to console myself! But onboard sound is much better these days. And good to know about the overclocking part, that helps too.

Interesting that there are mixed views about what is available and value for money right now. I've read comments about how self-builders are being priced out of the enthusiast market, and that it won't be possible to beat pre-built. That would be a shame for me as building is a large part of the experience! I might have to take it apart and put it back together again just so I can satisfy that urge....

But assuming I carry over my 2060 and 1TB NVMe SSD, I'd have thought that as long as I can get the motherboard, CPU & RAM at close to MSRP it would still be better than pre-built given that would be a whole system? I'd be picky about a case too.

I think I do have the urge and lucky enough that budget isn't a big issue right now, I partly wanted to check that it isn't that I'm pulling the trigger too early when I'd get more longevity by waiting a couple of years. I say that about budget, but then the relative prices of CPU, motherboard and GPU is not what it was even in 2013 I don't think! On that subject, some think that for a good while the new platforms when they arrive will be $$$ (or in my case £££) and if so then that would be a good reason not to wait also. DDR5 prices in particular are talked about.
 

Karadjgne

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When DDR4 first showed up, it was a mess. It was so new and had the same 2133MHz/2400MHz that ppl were getting with DDR3, except the DDR4 timings were worse and could be somewhat unstable if pushed. Literally you got better results with DDR3 2400. Same thing happened with the DDR2-DDR3 move, multiple boards claiming slots for both.

So the changeover had several hiccups and it took a while, and some higher speed ram, and in Ryzens case, multiple ongoing fixes to get a good performance stable pc that showed worthwhile gains over prior gen pc's.

I can't imagine that the initial release of DDR5 will be much different, especially with whatever AMD does with AM5 (or AM4+ or whatever they name the new platform) and the mix with Infinity Fabric. Intel is even considering adopting a somewhat similar approach with multiple chipsets, to cut costs of larger, perfect dies for the high end cpus.

The Ryzen 5800x only costs what it does because it has an 8 core chip, with perfect silicon, to get all 8 cores. The 5600x is the exact same 8 core chip, but at least 1 core is bunk, so amd disables a second core and you get a 6 core cpu with an 8 core die. In affect the 5600x is nothing more than a rejected 5800x.

That saves AMD a ton of cash, and Intel is thinking about that too.

So new platforms, new possibilities, new headaches. It might be 3-4 years before DDR5 is vested and realistically viable and decent.

This has been discussed pretty much every single generational release for as long as I can remember, and I've been building, tinkering and fixing pc's for 40 years now (don't go there lol).

But after 8 years of service (just retired my 3770k) I was due for upgrade, and did, and am happy with the results. I could have waited, but I'd have paid a whole lot more for my 2070Super.

Good things are not the only things around the corner, ask anyone whom waited anxiously for Broadwell or 11th Gen Intel i9's.
 
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The Ryzen 5800x only costs what it does because it has an 8 core chip, with perfect silicon, to get all 8 cores. The 5600x is the exact same 8 core chip, but at least 1 core is bunk, so amd disables a second core and you get a 6 core cpu with an 8 core die. In affect the 5600x is nothing more than a rejected 5800x.

That saves AMD a ton of cash, and Intel is thinking about that too.
I like the sound of that, sounds like re-using bits that don't make the grade instead of binning them and I like that too! Also makes more sense then putting an artificial limiter on something which is the exact same as the model above, always seems like a waste to me.
So new platforms, new possibilities, new headaches. It might be 3-4 years before DDR5 is vested and realistically viable and decent.
...
Good things are not the only things around the corner, ask anyone whom waited anxiously for Broadwell or 11th Gen Intel i9's.
That's exactly what I had in mind, and really helps, thanks! I'm not sure I want to wait 4 years, so it probably does make sense to do it now before shortages get any worse!

Now it is just a case of AMD vs Intel I guess..... last time I went with AMD it was the Nvidia Nforce chipset and my favourite motherboard manufacturer Abit were still around! I prefer the idea of a quiet PC that is easier to cool, and it sounds like AMD is the way to go for that from what I have read. I guess that is maybe another thread....!
 
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Today, ryzen 5000 and intel 11th gen processors have improved performance per clock.
From a performance point of view, your i7-4790K has 8 threads and a passmark rating of 8060.
That is when all 8 threads are fully occupied.
If your usage is for gaming, it is unlikely that you can effectively use more than 4-6 threads.
The single thread rating is 2468. The performance of the single master thread is what is most important for gaming.
If you run batch multithreaded apps, then the total rating is what counts.
You can buy today, a ryzen 5600x with 12 threads and a rating of 22191/3382. About $380.
Similarly, a I5-11600K will perform similarly with 12 threads and a rating of 19644/3348. About $260.

You will need DDR4 ram. ryzen is tightly tied to ram for performance, the faster the better.
Intel does not much depend on ram speed for performance.
This was really useful info, thank you - I've looked at benchmarks a few times and then seen other people say that they are pointless etc. but this distills some useful info nicely for me.

And it sounds like I'd possibly need to factor in the cost of better RAM with a Ryzen system? That is really good to know too.
 

Karadjgne

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Depends on where you want to go. Right now in 11th Gen, there's only 1 cpu that's really good value, and thats the 11400. It sits right behind the more expensive 11600k in just about everything. The 11700k and the 11900k are the exact same 8/16 cpu, but the 11900k has 200MHz higher base clocks. Seriously bad value, probably the worst value from Intel in generations.

Which leaves 10th Gen sitting very decently for its prices atm, especially for the 10900k at $100ish cheaper, 2 more cores and goes head to head of not beating the 11700k.

The 10700/k is also looking very good value atm with its pricing.

For AMD, the 5900x is the best production value, the 5600x the best gaming value, and if you get one on sale the 5800x is the Jack in the middle of trades.

The 11700k generally trails the 5800x, especially in production, there's very limited Intel wins there and it's only a win by a hair.

The 11400 trades blows with the 5600x, which isn't that far behind the 5800x in gaming/production ability, and at @ $180 ish, is the cpu to beat, the 5600x (if you can find one) generally $30-50 more.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-V-MmV1zQfM
 
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Depends on where you want to go. Right now in 11th Gen, there's only 1 cpu that's really good value, and thats the 11400. It sits right behind the more expensive 11600k in just about everything. The 11700k and the 11900k are the exact same 8/16 cpu, but the 11900k has 200MHz higher base clocks. Seriously bad value, probably the worst value from Intel in generations.

Which leaves 10th Gen sitting very decently for its prices atm, especially for the 10900k at $100ish cheaper, 2 more cores and goes head to head of not beating the 11700k.

The 10700/k is also looking very good value atm with its pricing.

For AMD, the 5900x is the best production value, the 5600x the best gaming value, and if you get one on sale the 5800x is the Jack in the middle of trades.

The 11700k generally trails the 5800x, especially in production, there's very limited Intel wins there and it's only a win by a hair.

The 11400 trades blows with the 5600x, which isn't that far behind the 5800x in gaming/production ability, and at @ $180 ish, is the cpu to beat, the 5600x (if you can find one) generally $30-50 more.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-V-MmV1zQfM
Looking at Ebuyer in the UK:
10700K = £311.99
10700KF = £293.99
10900K = £469.98
10900KF = £429.99
11400 = £169.98
11700K = £379.98

5600X = £299.99
5800X = £399.95
5900X = "coming soon"

Interesting about the 11400, that is by far the cheapest, I guess it could be a good start and leaves potential for future upgrades (buying used and/or when prices come down, like I did with my move from 4750 to 4790K before). I've also heard and read lots of good things about the 5600X....

I can tell I'm going to be watching a lot of Gamers Nexus videos over the next few days :D
 
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One thing on this - I understand that there are differences WRT PCIe 4.0 on Zen3 vs Rocket Lake, the only thing I'm currently bothered about is getting the most out of my 980 PRO NVMe. Would there be any difference there? Can I get the NVMe SSD on PCIe 4 on Intel, and would there be more scope for further expansion on AMD? I've done some reading but I'm still a bit confused....

EDIT - in this thread, @Makaveli says "As pointed out by Paul the cpu supports 4.0 not the chipset. Its why Z590 offers the same 4.0 as the B550 chipset on the AMD side. The x570 offers both support on the chipset and cpu". I was looking at B550 for Ryzen anyway as I'm not keen on a chipset fan, so it sounds like Rocket Lake would give the same PCIe 4.0 support as B550 anyway?
 
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Karadjgne

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Pcie4.0 is generally only of any use with a pcie4.0 graphics card. For storage, atm its blah for gaming.

Games are made up predominantly of very small files, couple of Kb, maybe as large as 100Kb. Which is tiny. And SSDs flood a cpu with all those small files, so much so that the cpu cannot process them as fast as the SSD can dump them into the ram. And that's a regular old Sata 3 SSD. Nvme makes very little to no difference there. Pcie4.0 is all about doubling the bandwidth of pcie3.0, so can dump more files, faster. And yet make no difference to 99% of games because the cpu is the bottleneck.

Where pcie4.0 shines is in the extra large file transfers, things like legal or real estate documents that have Gb of data in a single file. Video production software and other large file movement. But for games? Only see a difference if moving the entire game folder to a different place. Same with windows install etc as that has large CAB files.

What difference does it make if you drive a Lambo that does 0-60 in 4 seconds, top speed north of 250mph or a mini-van that does 0-60 in 30 seconds and top speed of 90mph, when driving through town where the speed limit is 45mph and there's a traffic light every block. That's all expensive eye-candy, all show and literally no go, because of limitations.

You aren't going to get the most out of a pcie4.0 nvme unless it's primary use can take advantage of its ability. And gaming doesn't.
 
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That's interesting, thank you. I had read before that it makes no difference for gaming. I would say that gaming isn't my primary focus with that necessarily, and sometimes I am moving around large files. Not that I've ever particularly felt a need for improvement though, I must admit.

Just thought it would make sense to use the 980 PRO to the best of its abilities if I'm upgrading for the next 5+ years. But I can see that it shouldn't be something that influcences platform choice!
 
One thing on this - I understand that there are differences WRT PCIe 4.0 on Zen3 vs Rocket Lake, the only thing I'm currently bothered about is getting the most out of my 980 PRO NVMe. Would there be any difference there? Can I get the NVMe SSD on PCIe 4 on Intel, and would there be more scope for further expansion on AMD? I've done some reading but I'm still a bit confused....

EDIT - in this thread, @Makaveli says "As pointed out by Paul the cpu supports 4.0 not the chipset. Its why Z590 offers the same 4.0 as the B550 chipset on the AMD side. The x570 offers both support on the chipset and cpu". I was looking at B550 for Ryzen anyway as I'm not keen on a chipset fan, so it sounds like Rocket Lake would give the same PCIe 4.0 support as B550 anyway?
If you want more PCIe lanes then look at the Z590/H570 boards.

H570 boards @ Scan.

https://www.scan.co.uk/shop/computer-hardware/motherboards-intel/3263/3264

Solid board right here w/20 PCIe lanes.

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/asus-tuf-gaming-h570-pro-intel-h570-s-1200-ddr4-pcie-40-sata3-3x-m2-25gbe-usb-32-gen2-atx
ASUS TUF GAMING H570-PRO £154.99
 
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If you want more PCIe lanes then look at the Z590/H570 boards.

H570 boards @ Scan.

https://www.scan.co.uk/shop/computer-hardware/motherboards-intel/3263/3264

Solid board right here w/20 PCIe lanes.

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/asus-tuf-gaming-h570-pro-intel-h570-s-1200-ddr4-pcie-40-sata3-3x-m2-25gbe-usb-32-gen2-atx
ASUS TUF GAMING H570-PRO £154.99
Hey thanks, that does look like a good board! 6 SATA ports is perfect too, and what I'd want at least for the time being. I guess I need to look at DDR4 next...!

EDIT - I've got used to having an Intel NIC on my Maximus Gene so was wondering whether the Z590 TUF would be my choice as it has the new Intel 2.5GbE NIC.... then I did some reading about it..... I actually want to go with the Realtek now TBH o_O
 
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I'm torn now. TPU says of the 11400: "What really displeases me is how tacked-together and unfinished the whole Rocket Lake platform feels. The BIOSes have numerous bugs that are completely obvious to anyone using them for more than 10 minutes. Maybe this is not Intel's fault, but since AMD introduced AGESA, a common-base software stack, things have gotten much better for the red team. POST times have always been good with Intel, but I'm now sometimes sitting at A2 (VGA) for 20 seconds with an occasional double boot when changing a BIOS setting, which we criticized AMD for in the past. This whole experience reminds me of the first generation of Ryzen".

Their review shows that the 5600X is always better in everything apart from value. Can't argue with that of course, but I'm not looking to get the cheapest system TBH.

The memory stuff seems like a bit of a car crash, maybe it doesn't matter anyway but I'm left dazed and confused about which speed I should be looking to get and whether the fact that it can / can't run Gear 1 matters.

More research required....!
 
I'm torn now. TPU says of the 11400: "What really displeases me is how tacked-together and unfinished the whole Rocket Lake platform feels. The BIOSes have numerous bugs that are completely obvious to anyone using them for more than 10 minutes. Maybe this is not Intel's fault, but since AMD introduced AGESA, a common-base software stack, things have gotten much better for the red team. POST times have always been good with Intel, but I'm now sometimes sitting at A2 (VGA) for 20 seconds with an occasional double boot when changing a BIOS setting, which we criticized AMD for in the past. This whole experience reminds me of the first generation of Ryzen".

Their review shows that the 5600X is always better in everything apart from value. Can't argue with that of course, but I'm not looking to get the cheapest system TBH.

The memory stuff seems like a bit of a car crash, maybe it doesn't matter anyway but I'm left dazed and confused about which speed I should be looking to get and whether the fact that it can / can't run Gear 1 matters.

More research required....!
https://www.scan.co.uk/products/intel-core-i5-11400f-s-1200-rocket-lake-6-cores-12-threads-26ghz-44ghz-turbo-12mb-cache-65w-retail
Intel Core i5 11400F £149.99


Intel's 11 gen boards received a 11 gen microcode bios update on March 31st.

Here's a few reviews since then.

https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/intel_core_i5_11400f_processor_review,1.html

https://www.techspot.com/review/2232-intel-core-i5-11400f/

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOpWJCWYa6k


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUNOsn94N7U
 
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Karadjgne

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The way it works is this. Intel for years did a tic-toc approach, a new (hah) architecture every 2 generations, a refresh after 1 generation. That left them between 2-3 years to figure anything out, no rush, no way AMD was going to catch them.

Until Ryzen got rushed out the door and all of a sudden Intel was in trouble. Now Intel is scrambling to get the lead back, and making a ton of noob mistakes.

They back-ported 14nm process onto 10nm process, but what that meant is they couldn't solve the power and heat issues for the 11900k, so it got chopped to 8/16, whereas the 10900k remained 10/20 on 14nm. And they rushed that out the door to combat Zen3, and failed, epically. Only the lower core, lower power 11400 really takes advantage of the nm process and its knocking on a 11600k back door, literally just a few fps (under 10) behind. That's huge for the budget cpu. And really doesn't say much for the flagships just a few fps higher.

Intel just discovered Bulldozer. So is going to be issuing microcode fixes for a while methinks.
 
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Thank you for the new reviews, I had seen some stuff about the updates. There was someone on the TPU forum with an 11500 who was saying that the updates didn't make things much better for them, and I guess it feels like a concern that there aren't many/any long-term reviews to look at yet, and zero reviews for the motherboards I'm looking at (that I can find) at this time.
Intel just discovered Bulldozer. So is going to be issuing microcode fixes for a while methinks.
And I guess that is why I'm not so sure about going for the 11400 if I'm buying right now - feels like Rocket Lake could stablize and become known as a great platform for a few years, or maybe it won't and it will be remembered as a bit of a dud? Feels like it is too soon to tell. The memory stuff feels confusing for me in a way I'd rather it wasn't! Although I could probably get someone here to explain that for me :p

From Techspot: "When compared to competing AMD parts, the 11400F is about 13% faster than the Ryzen 5 3600 and 11% slower than the 5600X, essentially slotting in between the two... As it stands right now, the Core i5-11400F on a B560 motherboard should be the go-to option for budget builders. Essentially you can snag this processor with an entry-level motherboard for less than the cost of the Ryzen 5 5600X".

Thing is, whist I don't want to throw money down the drain, I'm lucky enough that right now I don't consider myself a "budget builder". I can see that the 11400F especially is really good value, but looking at the whole platform right now I think I'd feel more comfortable with a 5600X & B550 board until the Rocket Lake platform irons out all the issues (and someone can explain what the whole gear 1 vs gear 2 thing really means for someone like me without confusing me further!).

I guess the other option is to wait a bit to see how Rocket Lake settles and if there is a 5600 non-X, but I'm concerned about what might happen to prices and availability over the next 6-12 months.... had kind of decided (with much help above) that now was the time to go for it.

Really appreciate the input, the more information the better!

EDIT - removed the car analogy as cars are really expensive and you'd care a lot more about a 30-40% price difference. It is hard to think of a useful comparison actually!
 
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If you have the money for it the 5600x would be a nice CPU to have, while it is expensive I don't think I would consider it money down the drain as it performs so well.
Thanks! I think I've been reading too many threads on TPU, I find it mostly really interesting but of course there is also a bit of sparring going on. I'm not sure if I'm helping myself or not, but my thoughts do sway quite a lot from one way to the other the more I read!

My current system started off life as an H87-PRO with an i5-4570 which I seem to recall had good reviews and was considered pretty solid combination. Probably just me getting old but feels like everything is more complicated this time around, there are more things to consider! Maybe I'm just learning more :p Anyway, whilst I'm thinking about future longevity I should remember that I actually upgraded to a Z97 board and an i7-4790K and whilst I was able to keep my Windows install I did still have to upgrade my board as well as CPU. So maybe I should remember that when thinking about upgrade paths for my new build (i.e. not discount a motherboard + CPU combo if it is good value even if I might need to swap both in a few years).

Currently with the boards I'd be looking at, the price difference is £305 vs £490 which is quite a margin. It might come down a bit if I bought used for the AMD side, but with something that is only 6 months old I kinda want to get it brand new (I buy lots of electronics used, it isn't that I'm against it at all - my motherboard, CPU and RAM are all pre-loved).

I suppose if I'm bothered about longevity I need to look at what the upgrade path is. With AMD it is probably a 5800X or 5900X when (if??) they come down in price and/or used. With Intel I guess it would be an i7 or i9 K chip, although in both instances I won't be overclocking.

Somehow I feel that the B500 + 5600X is a simpler prospect than the H570 + 11400F, but I can't necessarily put my finger on why... :??:
 
Thanks! I think I've been reading too many threads on TPU, I find it mostly really interesting but of course there is also a bit of sparring going on. I'm not sure if I'm helping myself or not, but my thoughts do sway quite a lot from one way to the other the more I read!

My current system started off life as an H87-PRO with an i5-4570 which I seem to recall had good reviews and was considered pretty solid combination. Probably just me getting old but feels like everything is more complicated this time around, there are more things to consider! Maybe I'm just learning more :p Anyway, whilst I'm thinking about future longevity I should remember that I actually upgraded to a Z97 board and an i7-4790K and whilst I was able to keep my Windows install I did still have to upgrade my board as well as CPU. So maybe I should remember that when thinking about upgrade paths for my new build (i.e. not discount a motherboard + CPU combo if it is good value even if I might need to swap both in a few years).

Currently with the boards I'd be looking at, the price difference is £305 vs £490 which is quite a margin. It might come down a bit if I bought used for the AMD side, but with something that is only 6 months old I kinda want to get it brand new (I buy lots of electronics used, it isn't that I'm against it at all - my motherboard, CPU and RAM are all pre-loved).

I suppose if I'm bothered about longevity I need to look at what the upgrade path is. With AMD it is probably a 5800X or 5900X when (if??) they come down in price and/or used. With Intel I guess it would be an i7 or i9 K chip, although in both instances I won't be overclocking.

Somehow I feel that the B500 + 5600X is a simpler prospect than the H570 + 11400F, but I can't necessarily put my finger on why... :??:
<--- guilty
 
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<--- guilty
I thought I saw you over there :p I can often see things from both sides!

I really keep going back and forth. I don't know what the MSRP is in the UK for the 5600X but £300 still feels just a bit high. But maybe it is worth it, find it hard to tell.

On the face of it the 11400F and an H570 or more modest board looks really good value, almost like the old days. I'm a bit nervous about the unknown with Rocket Lake though, and I wasn't planning on going for the cheapest originally. But then I feel like that makes me one of those people who buys way more than they need because they have the money and they're clueless :oops:

Maybe I should just embrace my ignorance it and enjoy it :ROFLMAO:
 
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