BestConfigs: High-End Workstation

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g-unit1111

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You'd need liquid cooling for that setup - there's no way that two heat sinks will fit that close together for a dual CPU motherboard.
 
Aug 16, 2013
6
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10,510
Mr. B writes:

A balanced dual Xeon configuration with very high performance (2X E5-2687W, 64Gb RAM, Quadro K5000, and etc) would require the next BestConfigs to have a super-workstation category with an $8,000 budget.


Any idea what a config might look like for a Maya/Zbrush/CS6 film-making CPU/GPU rendering, particle simulation machine for a one-person-band film studio? Am looking at fast dual Xeons (E5-2670's or E5-2690's), Quadro K5000, 64gigs ECC RAM, (perhaps Maximus) in the $8k range. What acceleration technologies does Maya, AE6, and PP6 need? The idea is maximum creativity, rendering turnaround in this price-range.
 


OnePersonBandStudio,

To optimize a system for the applications you mention suggests a system with very high performance in all the subsystems > CPU, Memory, GPU, and disk. This is because the applications today are all over the map- and changing in terms of multi-threading, CUDA and OpenCL, OpenGL acceleration as well as becoming larger and increasingly resource hungry. Adobe CS Premiere Pro is becoming multi-theaded and OpenCL.

In general then, such a system having many cores for rendering, ECC RAM for error-correcting for lack of artifacts in both rendering and particle simulation- and by particle I don't mean only the bits they sweep off the floor at CERN , but including smoke, transparency, and reflections, because of precision at which these particles must be placed to make motion appear natural and without jumps and stuttering. A CPU clock speed as is practicable is desirable for effects processing on both sound and video as the processing of effects like reverb and room ambiance is an extremely complex algorithm of progressive waveform smoothing and repetition at varying frequencies and amplitudes. The GPU should have a high bandwidth and lots of memory and if it's Adobe CS and /or Autodesk, CUDA OpenGL, and Open CL capable. The more CUDA cores the better and it possible to see the positive effects on CPU performance benchmarks of CUDA co-processing when a high end GPU like a Quadro 6000 or K5000 is added.

As for choosing components, this is a complicated equation, but with your budget, very high performance is possible.

CPU> With CPU's there is a decrease in speed proportional to the increase in core count. A quad core E5-1620 will run on the first core at 3.8GHz and on all four cores at 3.6, so in single-threaded applications- which is most of Autodesk, Adobe, and Dessault, that $350 CPU will perform as well as a single E5-2687W that will run on it's first core at 3.8 and has the same memory bandwidth and cache per core as the E5-1620, except costing $2,000/ However, with rendering , as many cores as available may be employed so the dual E5-2687W's 16 cores / 32 threads become welcome if not necessary from a business perspective. Dual CPU's also offer much more memory and PCIe slots. I use a dual quad-core system at 3.16GHz and even simple, single renderings are far too time consuming. So, my vote would be for a dual E5-2687W.

Motherboard > I am increasingly fond of the Intel C602. There are a variety of likely boards and the choice is important as not all workstation dual CPU boards support 150W CPU's, though I've seen reports of many systems successfully using boards rated up to 135W. Still, there are a variety of motherboard possibilities and the choice would depend on the chipset and slots preferred.

Memory > As mentioned, ECC at the highest supported speed, currently 1600. The upcoming 12-core E5-2697 2.7 / 3.5GHz, about $3,200) will use 1866. My inclination, since the RAM is divided between the CPU's is to consider 128GB.

GPU > I am of two minds on this one, especially as I've not directly used either of my favorites and am relying on benchmarks and anecdotes. As you may know, workstation application -and as far as I know, Adobe, Dessault, and Autodesk don't support multiple GPU's, so having the highest bandwidth and most memory in a single GPU is desirable. And in this, I am divided between The Quadro K5000 and the Quadro 6000. The Quadro 6000 is 384-bit to the K5000's 256-bit and has 6GB memory and a 144GB's bandwidth while the K5000 has higher clock speeds, 1536 CUDA cores to the 6000's 448, and a bandwidth of 177. The 6000, 6GB is the successor to the FX 5800 which was 4GB and 512-bit and considered the video editing line at the time. My inclination is somewhat inclined towards the 6000, but then the K5000 is significantly less expensive and has all those CUDA cores,... I'm having a similar debate at the moment, one market notch down, which is whether to change from a Quadro FX 4800 (384-bit, 1.5GB) to a Quadro 5000 or K4000. The 5000 is 320-bit, 352 CUDA, 2.5GB and the K4000 is 192-bit. 768 CUDA. Interestingly, the Quadro 5000 in the right system has much higher 3D benchmarks and I keep returning to the 384-bit idea. In the consumer / gaming GeForce line, the GTX 580 (3GB) is supposed to be an excellent video editing, a graphics card "sleeper" better than a GTX 680- and the 580 is 384-bit to the 680's 256.

Drives > A PCIe RAID controller running an SSD for OS and application and a RAID 1+0 for performance- loading, transfer, backup.

Follows is a modification of a system I worked out for someone in the particle physics world and with several options >

BambiBoom PixelCannon Simucadarenderanimatica Supermodeler iWork OnePBandWalletScream II ™?™©®©$_ REV 8.16.13

The following configuration was done in consideration of the best cost /performance basis suitable for high calculation density requirements > Mathematical, Astrophysical, vector analysis, particle, fluid, gas flow, and thermal simulation, statistical analysis, molecular biology, static and dynamic structural, 2D/ 3D CAD modeling, video editing, sound processing, graphic design, rendering, architecture, industrial design, financial analysis. >

1. (2) Intel Xeon E5-2687W Sandy Bridge-EP 3.1GHz (3.8GHz Turbo Boost) 20MB L3 Cache LGA 2011 150W 8-Core Server Processor > $3,868. ($1,934 each) On the Passmark CPU benchmark chart, this processor is the No.1 rated, score = 21491. In the top 100 systems on Passmark Performance test, this CPU is used in the 6th highest performing system.

2. (2) Thermaltake WATER2.0 Pro Closed-Loop All In One Liquid CPU Cooler Dual 120mm PWM Fans 120x49mm Radiator CLW0216 > $150 ($75 each) (I'm not confident in this choice and this component should be researched more carefully. Intel recommends liquid cooling for the 150W E5-2687W, and this one is among the quietest.)

3. INTEL S2600COESSI EEB Server Motherboard Dual LGA 2011 DDR3 1600 > $580 (Newegg). (Supports up to 512GB DDR3 ECC UDIMM/LV)

4. ASUS Z9PE-D16 SSI EEB Server Motherboard Dual LGA 2011 DDR3 1600 > $480 (See links above for information)

5. SUPERMICRO MBD-X9DAi-O Extended ATX Server Motherboard Dual LGA 2011 DDR3 > $490

a. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
b. http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/xeon/c60...
c. 16GB ECC registered 1600 compatible memory > http://www.supermicro.com/support/resources/memory/disp...
i. A 16GB Samsung module from the compatible list > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... ($180 each X4= $770 for 64GB, 8X= $1,440 for 128GB)

6. 128GB (8 X 16GB) DDR3- 1600 ECC RAM for Intel S2600COESSI EEB > About $1,200 (compatibility to be researched)

7. 128GB (8 X 16GB) SAMSUNG M393B2G70BH0-CK0 1X 16GB for ASUS Z9PE-D16 > 128GB= $1,160 ($145 each, Server Direct)

8. LSI MegaRAID Internal Low-Power SATA/SAS 9260-8i 6Gb/s PCI-Express 2.0 w/ 512MB onboard memory RAID Controller Card, Single > $499

9. NVIDIA Quadro K5000 4GB 256-bit PCI Express 2.0 x 16 HDCP Ready Workstation video card > $1,800.

10. OPT'L > PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card > $3,648. (I think the 6000 is so good that you might consider buying a good used Quadro 6000 which on Ebay can be had in the $1,300-1,500 range.)

11. SAMSUNG 840 Pro Series MZ-7PD512BW 2.5" 512GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) > $520

12. (3) Western Digital WD Black WD2002FAEX 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive - OEM $480 ($160 each) (RAID 1+0) (Active files, backup, system image) (These may be more useful as 4TB each)

13. SeaSonic X-1250 1250W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Full Modular Active PFC Power Supply > $254.99

14. LIAN LI PC-D8000 Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case $331.99

15. ASUS DVD Burner 24X DVDDRW-24B3ST/BLK/G/AS > $28.

16. NZXT Sentry-2 5.25" Touch Screen Fan Controller > $28.

17. Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit (Full Version) - OEM $140

_______________________________

TOTAL = about $8,700-9,000 with Quadro K5000 > Add +$1,850 for new Quadro 6000 or subtract -$200 for used Quadro 6000. This could be well under $8,000 by using the onboard RAID controller (deleting the LSI = -$500) and going from 128 to 64GB RAM (= -$600).

Cheers,

BambiBoom

[ Dell Precision T5400 > 2X Xeon X5460 quad core @3.16GHz > 16 GB ECC 667> Quadro FX 4800 (1.5GB) > WD RE4 / Segt Brcda 500GB > Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit > HP 2711x 27" 1920 x 1080 > AutoCad, Revit, Solidworks, Sketchup Pro, Corel Technical Designer, Adobe CS MC, WordP Office, MS Office > architecture, industrial design, graphic design, rendering, writing ]
 
Aug 16, 2013
6
0
10,510
Wow. What a thoughtful response. I've been staying away from the E5-2687W because of the heat, but perhaps I should be looking at the ver2 chips when they come out in September. Was very interested to hear what you said about how single-threaded apps (like Maya, except when rendering) behave amidst a multi-cpu environment. Cooling will be everything on this machine--am thinking about a 4U rackmount for future growth, if things work that way.

I've also been considering the Asus Z9PE-D8 WS M/B because of its I/O connections. Any thoughts on this board?

...even simple, single renderings are far too time consuming.

There's the rub.

Thank you! IOU!


 
Big Tower, Strong Power

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-3930K 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor ($569.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Swiftech H220 55.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($150.98 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus Rampage IV Extreme EATX LGA2011 Motherboard ($415.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($239.63 @ Amazon)
Storage: Plextor M5S Series 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($189.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($134.99 @ Newegg)
Case: NZXT Phantom (White) ATX Full Tower Case ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: XFX ProSeries 1050W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($159.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: LG GH24NS95 DVD/CD Writer ($14.99 @ Newegg)
Other: W7000 ($699.99)
Other: W7000 ($699.99)
Total: $3326.52
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-08-16 23:39 EDT-0400)
 


OnePersonBandStudio,

Given the complexity of tasks at your studio > animation, video, sound, your idea of a multiple system configuration is a good one as you could optimize one system for active files such as 3D modeling, one for animation processing, no. 3 for sound and video effects processing, and then have a dedicated animation rendering engine that could just stand in the corner on 24 / 7 slogs. This could also be effective with two systems, one active and other processing. That way you can always be generating content and editing while the other systems process and each system can be configured as required -CPU speed, amount of RAM, and very basic graphics cards. One way to do this effectively and with lower cost would be to have the super dual 8-core system and then have a row of networked, used Dell Precision T7500's with fast, single or dual 6-cores like the X5680 (3.33GHz)- $1,600-3,000 instead of $8,000- as they can in effect work while you do other things. There's also an advantage in buying such systems already assembled / configured, possibly only change drives and RAM.

Yes, the E5-2687W is 150W and a hot one, Intel more than recommends liquid cooling and a surprising number of dual CPU motherboards specifically specify "up to 135W". I expect the V2 would be 130W like the new E5-2697 V2.

While on the subject of cooling, an aspect that needs very careful consideration for your proposed system is the amount of noise it makes- air rush from the cooling and HD click can be very distracting. I have a modest dedicated sound computer, an HP Elite m9626f (Q6600 quad core @ 2.4GHz, EMU 0404), not a hot rod but just amazingly silent. And, a couple of weeks ago received a new HP z420 (Xeon E5-1620 quad core @ 3.6GHz, C602, 24GB ECC) and it's even quieter, and both are much quieter than the fairly quiet Dell Precision T5400 (2X Xeon X5460 @3.16, 16GB, Quadro FX 4800).

You mention the Asus Z9PE-D8 WS and that is a board I like for several reasons- it's C602, very good, open layout- looks like space for big heatsinks, dual LAN, and there's that amazing row of seven PCIe-x16 slots- thanks dual CPU's! Of course, not all seven are capable of running at x16 simultaneously. The one limitation of the Asus Z9PE-D8 WS is that there are only eight RAM slots- the same number as my lowly E5-1620 single quad core system. As each CPU is using separate RAM, to allow for future expansion, that for 32B per CPU (64GB total), it means starting out with 2X 2- 16GB modules- and 16GB are more expensive and high higher latency. For this reason- the the sixteen RAM slots (16X 8GB =128), the Asus Z9PE-D16 WS is my preference and by the way has 4X LAN and is $100 less expensive. The Asus Z9PE-D16 WS does have six instead of seven PCIe x16, but there is a PIKE slot, which is especially for a PIKE SAS / SATA controller. ASUS makes an 8-port SAS2/ SATA3 RAID controller for this slot that costs about $130 and this is likely to be a noticeable improvement to the onboard Marvell controller and 1/4 the price of the LSI PCIe controller.

By the way, I might restate an important aspect when thinking about such systems and more so if there's the option of adding separate system for dedicated tasks. And that is to understand very thoroughly the applications for multi-core use as it is more efficient and saves money if you can use a system with fewer CPU cores as it can be vastly cheaper and simultaneously have a higher clock speed. On single threaded applications, the $350 E5-1620 running on the first core at 3.8GHz would be comparable to dual, $3,900 E5-2687W's running on the first core at 3.8GHz. By the way, you didn't mention your applications, but Sonar X2 introduces what appears to be a good multi-core configuration and I'm glad to think we'll see more in that direction.

Rendering > Rendering is one of those interesting aspects of current computer applications as renderings are in effect the final product of all the other work and also have the highest hardware requirement- both in processing power and graphics power, establishing a severe "weakest link" curve in the hardware / software chain that no other uses seem to demand. Someone could have a surprisingly modest system and work out a whole city in 3D CAD, but if they had to do renderings of 1/10th of the kitchens, that adds $6,000.

A good discussion. Hypothetical systems are very useful in clarifying hardware / software priorities and relationships.

Cheers,

BambiBoom
 
Aug 16, 2013
6
0
10,510
I might restate an important aspect when thinking about such systems and more so if there's the option of adding separate system for dedicated tasks.

In my world, we’re speaking of pipeline workflow. My major apps are the CS6Master Collection and the Autodesk Entertainment suite. As a film-maker, I’m director, writer, producer, sound engineer, light technician, effects artist, editor, you name it. None of this is hypothetical ;-) –as I’m producing product on schedule. My concern about dedicating systems to various tasks is the increased management and networking issues. Version/asset/footage control is everything. In studios, you generally not only have dedicated systems, but dedicated people to manage these systems, with TD’s to keep it all straight. Even if such an environment were an option, I wouldn’t want it because business concerns tend to overwhelm creative quality, productivity, and freedom. Yet, in a one person studio, one person must balance creation, business, production, and tech all at once, which means striving for simplicity (as opposed to increased complexity) when possible.

…then have a row of networked … fast, single or dual 6-cores like the X5680 (3.33GHz)- …as they can in effect work while you do other things.


Space! Sound! Heat! Electricity! Complexity management! Fast, reliable networks are not trivial in cost, security, maintaining, and troubleshooting. I’ve been cutting my teeth in the last year with a four computer render farm on gigabit Ethernet, which does not have nearly enough bandwidth.

ASUS makes an 8-port SAS2/ SATA3 RAID controller for this slot that costs about $130 and this is likely to be a noticeable improvement to the onboard Marvell controller and 1/4 the price of the LSI PCIe controller.


This is good to know. I will look closely at the ASUS Z9PE-D16. I was also looking at the Supermicro X9DRH-7TF for it’s integrated LSI SAS2208 &Intel X540-t2 10GBase-T controllers, and 16 DDR3 slots, but it has only 1 PCI-E 3.0 x16 expansion slot.

…the amount of noise it makes- air rush from the cooling and HD click can be very distracting

A big concern. Have you heard how well the $2k server sound enclosures work in a small office environment? Should I look for a used one?

…understand very thoroughly the applications for multi-core use as it is more efficient and saves money if you can use a system with fewer CPU cores as it can be vastly cheaper and simultaneously have a higher clock speed.


Very glad you keep bringing this up as it’s causing me to try to think of solutions how this might work in my environment—something along the lines of two rackmounts—(but how to network and manage them adequately so they work as seamlessly as possible?) As you know, there will never be enough rendering cores, which is why I’m willing to spend money to increase simplicity in a complex pipeline workflow--and then tailor output to resources.

To optimize a system for the applications you mention suggests a system with very high performance in all the subsystems > CPU, Memory, GPU, and disk.


Have you heard anything about how well the Fuison-io technology is working in people’s machines? I’ve been looking at the ioFX, but not finding much about it.

Glad you enjoy the discussion too! Thank you!
 
OnePersonBandStudio,

Regarding the multiple systems, my idea to use a series of used Dells was a low cost concept in response to your idea of having four rack mount units. Given your explanation of working method / sequence, though I understand the striving for for hardware simplicity. I also put on a one person show and being network shy and backup obsessed, my technique has always to maintain two independent computers with identical software and archived files, ready to plug in at a moment's notice. I prefer short hardware chains- really amounting to independent systems as the longer the chain- the more parts, and the greater the chance it breaks somewhere. So, yes if a single system is preferable, I'm all for it, it will only need to be highly capable in disparate ways, but that will still be less expensive and much easier to manage than several systems on a network.

Motherboard > The Supermicro X9DRH-7TF > Though I like Supermicro workstations boards in general, I don't see advantages to that board as it does have only the one PCIe X16 slot. Of course, your system is never likely to have more than one graphics card, RAID devices are x8, and interfaces like MOTU, Apogee, AVID, and RME are often x1, but if you have all x16 slots, the x16 x8, x4, and x1 devices can go anywhere. The Supermicro X9DRH-7TF also has only 2X SATA III 6Gb/S ports while the ASUS has 6X. Of course, that's a moot point if there is to be a PCIe RAID controller, but the limited x16 slots and few SATA III ports are to me a sign of possibly being earlier generation. The highest quality boards I've seen have been Intel and I'm quite interested in a closer look at the S2600COESSI EEB

Given the server orientation of your system, the RAID controller seems a good idea. I have an LSI 3080 SAS /SATA controller for the T5400 (there are 2X PCI-X slots) that id supposed to double transfer speeds, but I never installed these as, again, I enjoy simplicity and don't have RAID configured. Plus, my files, except for the sound files on the recording system- are never very large.

Noise > As for system noise, this is one of my other obsession- both in having a quiet recording / processing system and also a good monitoring system. I also use isolation headphones almost constantly (old Sennheiser 580). There is vacuum tube gear about (Peavey VMP2, Audio Research SP8 and D115), so heat is a problem.

I had a look at several noise reduction enclosures and can't make a specific recommendation as I would want to hear these in their native habitat running. Because of the emphasis on air flow- they're very open, I'm not sure how quiet they can be, but servers are put in separate rooms for a reason. Plus, everyone has their own threshold of distraction. I have a friend in Los Angeles that records and produces his own CD's (Classical Piano and synthesized orchestral compositions) and he uses a MOTU 828, Mac Pro and a rack of effects processors, DAT's, synthesizer modules, and CD duplicator, and so on and claims there's not a noise problem, but he also uses headphones. I think the air rush is terrible. So, a difficult question to answer. Are you using surround sound and monitoring on speakers?

I think though that if you went to rack mounted systems, that a cork-lined, insulated MDF cabinet around the rack with a low front intake with a short duct to an intake fan and a high mounted exhaust fan on a short duct could be done at less than $2,000.

One other detail. You may be aware of these but if not, have a look on Ebay for "isolation power conditioners" like Powervar and OneAC with at least 10A output. These are made for hospital equipment and filter RF, stabilize voltage, and have very effective surge protection. These have very high quality transformers and are very expensive new- often $1,200+, but when they come off lease, they are inexpensive- $150-200, and last forever. I use these in my audio and computer systems (except power amplifiers) and the noise floor goes to nothing.

It's surprising at what level a single person can accomplish complex production tasks at home. I had an architectural client who was a director that wrote and then after photography and CGI, edited several major features at home (AVID) and the composer, some guy named Horn-something, worked out the score on a piano brought into the living room.

Cheers,

BambiBoom
 
Aug 16, 2013
6
0
10,510
LOL, it sure helps to roll this around with someone. When you mentioned that there is a decrease in speed proportional to the increase in core count—(and that it would not be efficient to have a render tie up the entire workstation)--it set me thinking about CPU management on a system that had twenty CPU’s. I didn’t know this, but looking around a little, I found the Windows 7 Task Manager has an Affinity option that allows you to select what specific cores one wants running on a particular process. CS6, also, provides control how many processors can be used for the whole suite. So, theoretically, I could divide 20 CPUs between OS, Maya, CS6, and anything else. (Maya also has a render option where you can specify how many cores should be used for rendering--but not for running dynamics.) With the Task Manager, continual rendering may not have to interfere with productivity. I’ll test it this week on my next renders. It might also solve the overhead problem of having Maya process data divided between so many cores.

It never occurred to me I might be able to use 128gigs of RAM. I’ve heard CS6 works best with around 24 to 32 gigs—and Maya generally uses less than that. But then, looking into it, I’ve learned that RAM drives are back. We used them back in the 80’s on old DOS machines, but it seems cheap RAM and 64-bit OS’s have made them relevant again. So, this evening, I installed a 2 gig RAM drive and will test it with data files this week. RAM drives would also be useful for scratch disks—potentially taking a load off the SSD’s. 128gigs are starting to look like an important element.

Are you using surround sound and monitoring on speakers?

Headphones. I wear them most the time. My wife is a librarian. :) I’m more concerned about the noise for her than me. I use monitors for the Roland Fantom X8, when I can—but for my wife’s sake it’s mostly headphones there too. I'm not a musician, though--messing with it is simply relaxing.

I think though that if you went to rack mounted systems, that a cork-lined, insulated MDF cabinet around the rack with a low front intake with a short duct to an intake fan and a high mounted exhaust fan on a short duct could be done at less than $2,000.

Excellent!

You may be aware of these but if not, have a look on Ebay for "isolation power conditioners" like Powervar and OneAC with at least 10A output.


I use APC H15 power conditioners—it never occurred to me to look ebay for used ones. I know little about electricity. Can you recommend specific products suitable for this workstation build? I was just over at the Powervar site and didn’t know what I was looking at.

Horn-something… that’s funny! Scoring is my weakest link.

It's surprising at what level a single person can accomplish complex production tasks at home.


Never in history has there been such powerful tools for so relatively little money. It almost makes up for the economic realities…almost. Instead, we just have to work smarter. I live not too far from LA. If you ever want a free lunch, let me know. I owe you.
Ric
 
Ric,

You mention the value of these kind of discussions and I agree completely. I've had a long-time interest in instrument making and audio and realized after posting about audio that while playing about, I was teaching myself how to write more clearly on technical subjects. When I shifted towards industrial design and also changed to 3D CAD, I needed to become more sophisticated about computers and participating on this forum has not only saved a lot of frustration by increasing my understanding of the performance relationship between hardware to software , but also find I am improving the quality of Patent applications.

Multi-Core > One of the encouraging trends in PC's is the increasing ability to use multiple cores and I found that the ability to select the cores assignment a revelation- that's why my current computer added a second CPU. And I do just what you describe, I often assign 10 of the 16 threads to rendering and use the rest otherwise. This is where the amount of RAM comes into play. A multi-CPU system uses RAM symmetrically between the CPU's, so a dual CPU system with a total of 32GB is the equivalent of a single CPU system with 16GB or rather each core is the total RAm divided by the number of cores. I often run 5 or more applications at once - 2D CAD, 3D CAD/ modeling, viewer, PDF converter, graphic design / photo editing, Internet, Windows Explorer is almost permanently running, plus there is of course the OS, so the RAM is thinly disributed over eight cores.. In my current 16 GB dual Xeon system, that means that in reality I have 8GB per CPU and my old formula of 2GB for the OS, and 2GB for each application and the open files, means that at 2GB per core, I am running quite close to the bone. And the RAM does work for a living. When I run renderings, the hot-blooded DDR2 can reach 92C. Given the division of RAM between the CPU's, if Maya and CS6 are using 16- 24GB each, that does suggest the 128GB is not over doing it.

RAM Disk > By coincidence I am planning a quite different configuration, separating into a modeling and rendering system. In the new modeling system (HP z420), I'm going to try ram disks in combination with an SSD and keep the dual Xeon system as a rendering engine. For the new modeling system I have a single quad core CPU (Xeon E5-1620), chosen because the fewer the cores, the higher the base speed, in this example- 3.6GHz, plus 24GB RAM. The SSD is a 250GB (Samsung 840) and I'm going to have the OS, applications and all the current files in one partition, the archive and backup files on a 500GB mechanical drive, and run a ram disk for the bigger projects. I'm working on a Sketchup model that is 48MB, and while this doesn't seem large, it has millions of polygons-( 300+ 3D trees) and textures everywhere such that it takes three minutes to open and the timed saves are consuming about 10 minutes per hour. I'm having to go back and put everything on 30 or 40 layers so I can turn off everything off except one component. I'm in a panic at the moment as I can't extract renderings as it crashes the program after 20-25 minutes export. The penalties of casual planning.

HD Size > I amazed myself- and actually a bit disappointed when I calculated that all the files I've made since 1993- excepting sound, which occupy about 300 GB on a dedicated system, amount to only 92GB. There's another 70GB for the system image. That's 22,300 architectural files, 3,800 documents from one to 250 pages, 23,000 images, 800 graphic design files, about 1,200 scanned files and so on. That means that I can have the OS and all the files of twenty years' work on a 250GB drive. I wonder how many people really need 4TB?

Other adjustment in thinking > I find that I am doing less rendering than I imagined- only about 5-10% of my time, and going to try fewer and faster cores. My largest project ever- architectural- had a total of 35 renderings while the industrial design projects have three or four. This may shift into a larger proportion when I settle on a rendering program- I waste a lot of time by trying and using different ones.

Power conditioners> The isolation transformer conditioner vary in amperage output and number of sockets. Audio equipment can have large current draws and so I use 10-12A units to supply the turntable, CDP, preamp, tuner but power amplifiers have to be plugged into the wall directly- and vacuum tube amplifiers have horrific power requirements- the Audio Research D250 draws 600W at idle and uses 1,600W at full power so it has to occupy an entire outlet on it's own. Another detail > it is very useful if you can to rewire so that the system room has a dedicated circuit. The noise floor can also be significantly reduced by not only the power conditioner, but also by using hospital grade outlets such as Hubbell and Leviton. There are very good outlets at around $10-20. These are a fetish in high-end end audio and there are extremely expensive Rhodium sockets, but the problem is that they really do make a difference- as do IEC power cords, interconnects, and speaker cables. I went to a demonstration years ago near LAX of Ray Kimber's IsoMike recording system and the recording / playback system cost $297,000 without microphones- the four Beryllium speaker cables alone were $24,000. Have a look at the Wattgate 381 outlet >

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WATTGATE-381-RH-blue-star-audio-grade-receptacle-power-socket-Rhodium-plating-/220923998366?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item337018b09e

The power conditioners on the other hand are bargains >

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Powervar-10-Power-Conditioner-ABC1000-11-Power-Supply-WORKING-FREE-SHIPPING-/380648157812?pt=US_Uninterruptible_Power_Supplies&hash=item58a065f274

> a 10A Powervar with 6 outlets for $75.00 These have very heavy transformers and probably cost $50-60 to ship. Still a great a bargain- that unit was probably $1,100 new and I've used an 8.3A Powervar bought for almost that exact amount that's been running 24/7 for seven years. I have six of these from 6 to 11A and on sound gear, noise disappears that I didn't previously realize existed.

The good old Days are Now Dept. > Yes, the digital realm presents quite amazing performance improves at ever less cost. One odd feature is that the as the hardware becomes cheaper, the software becomes much more expensive. In 1993 I bought n IBM 486 running at 50MHz for $2,100 with an 85MB HD. I added 2MB of RAM for $180 and six month later a 540MB HD - the largest one made then for $570. and everything was proprietary and compatibility was narrow. The RAM would only fit that series of IBM and the prices were astoundingly higher. The 24GB of RAM in the new HP would cost in 1993 (@$90/MB)> $2,211,840 and a 1993 2TB HD (@ $1.07 / MB) = $2,243,952. On the other hand, AutoCAD (R10 DOS) was $560 and today about $5,400 but of course with capabilities impossible in 1993. That google can give away Sketchup to me is equally amazing to the $2.2Million HD idea.

Just when the reports of it's demise abound, the golden age of the PC is now!

Cheers,

BambiBoom

 
Aug 16, 2013
6
0
10,510
...but also find I am improving the quality of Patent applications.

That explains your articulateness :) Out of college, I supported myself writing college textbooks for McGraw Hill, Southwestern, and Wiley. The discipline proved invaluable. It seems, people don't accept new ideas as being real unless they see them on paper. While we evaluate a person by watching and listening, we evaluate a mind by reading.

For the new modeling system I have a single quad core CPU (Xeon E5-1620), chosen because the fewer the cores, the higher the base speed, in this example- 3.6GHz, plus 24GB RAM.

A $300 Romley chip with 3.8GHz turboboost. Nice.

I wonder how many people really need 4TB?

Rendering a single day's work fills 20 gigs. I've become obsessed with version control, but determining what should be archived is hard because not everything can be saved. The drafts are a nightmare to manage; it
may be years before realizing something done earlier is needed.

I find that I am doing less rendering than I imagined- only about 5-10% of my time, and going to try fewer and faster cores.

Good workstations are tailored to the task and user--yet the user often doesn't know the task until encountering the first failures and opportunities. Workstations evolve, which is why I generally overdesign rather than simply meet requirements. I define a workstation as a production system that makes money. I feel for people coming out of colleges trained in technique, but not how to make money with the technique.

Rendering has now become everything. Each night, I stop at a place where it's productive to start again in the morning, which means I have to organize things based on what can be rendered overnight. During the day, each decision has to be rendered or playblasted to be evaluated. The longer it takes to render, the more likely a decision will not be fruitful. We're always limited by hardware and have to design workflow around it.

I have six of these from 6 to 11A and on sound gear, noise disappears that I didn't previously realize existed.

I've run into two that have cut external wires. Is there a reason for this?

One odd feature is that the as the hardware becomes cheaper, the software becomes much more expensive.
I see this as systemic weakness and don't see the trend lasting more than few more years. The software is so expensive because the support infrastructure has grown immense and they are trying to maintain quality. In general, as hardware becomes cheaper, the business incentive to replace people with technology grows, so high end software gets more expensive as the user base gets smaller. I expect Autodesk to go the direction of Adobe, eventually offering software on a solely subscription basis; after that, they go after a broader customer base, which is why I keep telling myself to spend more time with other packages, but haven't gotten around to it.
Just thoughts!
Ric

 
Aug 16, 2013
6
0
10,510
Supermicro is now offering the MBD-X9DA7-O for the version 2 E5 2600 chips:
http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon/C600/X9DA7.cfm

By combining USB headers with SAS, it's a hybrid workstation/server board.

1) I wouldn't have to sacrifice expansion slots to get good I/O.
2) It supports 128gb of UDIMM for the RAM drives.
3) It's BIOS is prepared for version 2.

Am very interested in this board. Any thoughts on it?
 

burritobob

Honorable
Nov 14, 2012
1,082
2
11,460
BurritoBob's Big Daddy

CPU: Intel Core i7-3930K 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor ($569.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Swiftech H220 55.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($150.98 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock X79 Extreme6 ATX LGA2011 Motherboard ($223.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($239.63 @ Amazon)
Storage: Sandisk Ultra Plus 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($164.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($94.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 780 3GB Video Card (3-Way SLI) ($649.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 780 3GB Video Card (3-Way SLI) ($649.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 780 3GB Video Card (3-Way SLI) ($649.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Corsair Obsidian Series 800D ATX Full Tower Case ($209.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic X Series 1250W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($201.75 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Lite-On IHBS112-04 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Lite-On IHBS112-04 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $3981.23
 

guchaochen

Honorable
Oct 3, 2013
10
0
10,510

slsPCs

Honorable
Oct 6, 2013
48
0
10,540
To configure a workstation first of all you have to know what the workstation is for. As mostly workstations in the forums are ment to be used for video-editing and rendering, I will assume that the following worstation is for this regard.

If my english ist not perfect I would like to appoligize.

One of the biggest mistakes made with workstations, especially for videoediting, is the balance of the components. You can throw in as much CPU and GPU-power as you want - if the storage is not fast enough it will not matter - you'll run into problems and have wasted your money.

A well balanced single-socket system (2011) could look as follows:

CPU, Mobo, Memory: 30%
VideoCard: 10%
Disks, HHD & SSDs: 28%
RAID Controller: 16%
Case, PSU & Drive Cages: 11%
Other components: 5%

This may be a rough guide.

You will find more about this within the follwoing link:
http://ppbm7.com/index.php/tweakers-page

Now lets do a system. As I'm not from USA I will do European prices right now and edit this post later on to fullfil the specs (Norwegg or Amazon). But prices are not the point, but the idea.

5 x Seagate Constellation ES.3 1TB, SATA 6Gb/s (ST1000NM0033)
@ RAID5, you can add 3 more to increase performance and size
1 x HighPoint RocketRAID 2720SGL, low profile, PCIe 2.0 x8
2 x LSI 3ware mini SAS x4 (SFF-8087) auf 4x SATA Kabel mit Seitenband, 1m (CBL-SFF8087-SATASB-10M/LSI00258)
1 x Samsung SSD 840 Evo Series 120GB, 2.5", SATA 6Gb/s (MZ-7TE120BW)
If hybernation is off, this is enough for OS and software.
1 x Intel Core i7-4930K, 6x 3.40GHz, boxed (BX80633I74930K)
@ a moderate OC, youst a few steps
4 x Kingston ValueRAM DIMM 8GB, DDR3-1600, CL11 (KVR16N11/8)
You can add another 32GB if needed
1 x MSI N760 TF 4GD5/OC Twin Frozr Gaming, GeForce GTX 760, 4GB GDDR5, 2x DVI, HDMI, DisplayPort (V282-073R)
1 x Gigabyte GA-X79-UP4
1 x Thermalright HR-02 Macho Rev. A (BW)
1 x Fractal Design Define XL R2 schwarz, schallgedämmt (FD-CA-DEF-XL-R2-BL)
1 x be quiet! Straight Power E9 600W ATX 2.31 (E9-600W/BN193)

This would be around 2100€.

This is a balanced workstation that will do pretty fast as there are no bottlenecks. And you can speed up by adding more drives and more memory.

But oooops - there is a lot of money left, what shall we do?

Either one workstation is busy with rendering and you have a problem to do other workloads, or you do need another worksation for other reasons, maybe you are not alone?

You do also have a strong storage-system that is not used the whole time and capable to serve other stations as well. You just have to transfer datas fast enough - and therefore I recommend to add up to two other workstations by using 10GBase in daisy-chaining. All you need:

1 x ASUS PEB-10G/SFP PLUS/DUAL, 2x 10GBase SFP+ Direct Attach, PCIe x8, low profile (90-C1SEWA-00UAN0YZ)
2 x ASUS PEB-10G/SFP PLUS/SINGLE, 1x 10GBase SFP+ Direct Attach, PCIe x8, low profile

This would be around 500 €, altogether nearly 2600€ - so enough money for even two other balanced workstations:

1 x Samsung SSD 840 Evo Series 120GB, 2.5", SATA 6Gb/s (MZ-7TE120BW)
1 x Intel Xeon E3-1230 v3, 4x 3.30GHz, Sockel-1150, boxed (BX80646E31230V3)
2 x Kingston ValueRAM DIMM 8GB, DDR3-1600, CL11 (KVR16N11/8)
just throw another 2 dimms in as soon as you've earned the money and already upgraded the system above ;-)
1 x MSI N650Ti-PE-1GD5/OC GeForce GTX 650 Ti, 1GB GDDR5, 2x DVI, Mini HDMI (V280-025R)
1 x Gigabyte GA-H87-HD3
1 x Scythe Katana 4 (SCKTN-4000)
1 x Cooler Master Silencio 550 schwarz glänzend, schallgedämmt (RC-550-KKN1)
1 x be quiet! Pure Power L8 300W ATX 2.4 (BN220)

This would be 4000€ - OK, the limit was 4000$, but for example you could do this with only one bigger second workstation and a fully upgraded main-workstation - then you still have money left.

EDIT:

As promised here are configs within the specs of this "battle". I took the chance to show two other configs, assuming that only two workstations are needed:

Main WS:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-4930K 3.4GHz 6-Core Processor ($559.99 @ Amazon)
@ a very moderate OC, maybe only a few steps of Turbo-OC.
CPU Cooler: Scythe SCMG-3100 88.1 CFM CPU Cooler
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-X79-UD3 ATX LGA2011 Motherboard ($214.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LP 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LP 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LP 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LP 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($99.99 @ Amazon)
@ hybernation off
Storage: Seagate Constellation ES.3 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($109.07 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Constellation ES.3 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($109.07 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Constellation ES.3 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($109.07 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Constellation ES.3 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($109.07 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Constellation ES.3 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($109.07 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Constellation ES.3 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($109.07 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Constellation ES.3 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($109.07 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Constellation ES.3 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($109.07 @ Amazon)
@ RAID5
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 760 2GB Video Card ($255.91 @ Newegg)
At Amazon and Noregg the 4GB-version is unfortunately far too expensive, but would be a better card, otherwise even a GTX770 would be fine, especially with 4GB. A GTX680 would be fine as well - maybe you get it very cheap at the moment.
Case: Fractal Design Define XL R2 (Black Pearl) ATX Full Tower Case ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Antec EarthWatts Platinum 650W 80 PLUS Platinum Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($100.00 @ Amazon)
Other: HighPoint RocketRAID 2720SGL 8-Port PCI-Express 2.0 x8 SAS/SATA RAID Controller ($155.00 @ Amazon)
Other: 3WARE Cable Multi-lane Internal Cable (SFF-8087) ($14.00 @ Amazon)
Other: 3WARE Cable Multi-lane Internal Cable (SFF-8087) ($14.00 @ Amazon)
Total: $2616.39
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-10-06 09:35 EDT-0400)

Secondary WS:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-4770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($339.99 @ Newegg)
@ high but reasonable OC, depending on the silicon lottery
CPU Cooler: Corsair H80i 77.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($79.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z87X-UD3H ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($159.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LP 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LP 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LP 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LP 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($99.99 @ Amazon)
@ hybernation off
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 660 Ti 3GB Video Card ($234.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design Arc Midi R2 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($64.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 450W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($74.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $1257.88
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-10-06 09:36 EDT-0400)

And of course the 10GBase-cards - grab the cheapest one you find in your area as well as the much cheaper copper-cables. As infrustructure and periphery is not part of the "battle" I do not need to take this into consideration within the price-range ;-)

EDIT:

If this system is only used by one person, you only need to use the 2nd workstation with remote control. Also Caselabs has cases, which enables you to build both systems in one case. You should see the configuration of two or three workstation as one system - regardless if its used by one, two or even three persons.

If 10bit colour is needed within your workflow and you have a monitor that can handle it, you could, for example, add a Quadro easily, even a small/cheaper one, into the 2011-workstation. Normally you would have at least two monitors, one a 10bit-one, this monitor gets two cables, one from the GTX, one from the Quadro. You just have to switch if you have to do colour-work. In another forum we've already set up a system with two smaller workstations and a big one for two people, who normally work on the smaller stations. As both need sometimes to do colour-work, they just switch their monitors and mouse/keybord and have 10bit. For a small additional price. They also both have the full capacity of the storage via 10GBase, and if someone has big rendering or other jobs like this (what happens quite often), the 2011-workstation (which has no own periphals) does it while both guys continue to work on other jobs. Within the smaller workstations there is also a couple of WD Reds for archiv/backup of the big RAID-array. Call it invesment-density.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu6jlA7hPj8

EDIT out of topic:

For all those guys who need a much faster workstation:

14 x Samsung SSD 840 Evo Series 250GB, 2.5", SATA 6Gb/s (MZ-7TE250BW)
12 of them as RAID50 on ARECA
2 x Intel Xeon E5-2697 v2, 12x 2.70GHz, Sockel-2011, boxed (BX80635E52697V2)
2 x Corsair Vengeance schwarz DIMM Kit 32GB, DDR3-1866, CL10-11-10-30 (CMZ32GX3M4X1866C10)
1 x Areca ARC-1882ix-12, PCIe 3.0 x8
1 x Gigabyte GeForce GTX Titan WindForce 3X OC, 6GB GDDR5, 2x DVI, HDMI, DisplayPort (GV-NTITANOC-6GD-B)
1 x ASUS Z9PE-D8 WS (dual Sockel-2011) (90-MSVDY0-G0EAY00T)
1 x ASUS PEB-10G/SFP PLUS/DUAL, 2x 10GBase SFP+ Direct Attach, PCIe x8, low profile (90-C1SEWA-00UAN0YZ)
3 x LSI 3ware mini SAS x4 (SFF-8087) auf 4x SATA Kabel, 0.5m (CBL-SFF8087OCF-05M)
1 x SilverStone SST-FF123, Staubfilter 120x120mm quadratisch
1 x DEMCiflex Staubfilter 200mm quadratisch schwarz/schwarz
8 x be quiet! Silent Wings 2 PWM 120mm (BL030)
rear fan as intake, three front fans as intake - others for H80i
1 x Corsair Carbide Series Air 540 mit Sichtfenster (CC-9011030-WW)
1 x Jou Jye JJ-1080M-SS schwarz, SAS/SATA 6Gb/s Wechselrahmen
just put away the fan - its not needed
2 x Corsair Hydro Series H80i (Sockel 1150/1155/1156/1366/2011/AM2/AM2+/AM3/AM3+/FM1/FM2) (CW-9060008-WW)
both in the top, push-pull, blowing out, with the fans mentioned above
1 x Corsair Professional Series Platinum AX860i 860W ATX 2.31 (CP-9020037-EU) (semi-passiv)
 
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