[SOLVED] Better Landline & DSL Installation?

[Undert0w]

Currently, my service provider has fibre to the house and cat5e from the fiber to the demarcation point. I have no need yet for fiber inside. At the demarcation point, two twisted pairs (blue, white/blue & green, white/green) are connected. The cable then runs to a structured media box. In the box, the cat5e goes into a cheap phone jack where all 4 wires are attached. The resulting RJ11 plug-in connection coming out is connected to the ISP modem. In addition, within the cheap phone jack another cat5e cable is attached using one twisted pair (blue, white/blue) to support the only landline in the house.

I’m looking to 1) make sure there’s no advantage to connecting more of the pairs at the demarcation point and 2) get guidance on a “cleaner/more professional” DIY method of separating the DSL and landline connection (which I want to keep) rather than using the phone jack. I’d ideally like to setup a patch panel (that I can also use for other items from my router and switch) or add a Leviton standalone module but need an “explain it to me like I’m 5” description on connecting one cat5e cable and still getting a landline and DSL.

Thank you!

 

[SamirD]

That's actually the way it is done when you have dsl and a landline. They come in on the same signal, and there is no way to separate the two unless your isp will do it for you with two separate runs from the fibre box. Or they could bring the fibre inside, but that's insanely expensive unless you already have existing fibre there.

 

[Ralston18]

Seconding SamirD.

Will add the following - just FYI:

https://www.lmi.net/support/common/dsl-support/how-dsl-works/

Overall, as can be expected, any loose wire connection becomes problematic.

(Note: Splitters are a common point of failure. Fortunately inexpensive and easy to replace.)

 

[Undert0w]

Seconding SamirD.

Will add the following - just FYI:

https://www.lmi.net/support/common/dsl-support/how-dsl-works/

Overall, as can be expected, any loose wire connection becomes problematic.

(Note: Splitters are a common point of failure. Fortunately inexpensive and easy to replace.)

That's actually the way it is done when you have dsl and a landline. They come in on the same signal, and there is no way to separate the two unless your isp will do it for you with two separate runs from the fibre box. Or they could bring the fibre inside, but that's insanely expensive unless you already have existing fibre there.

I understand. Based on your feedback there’s no benefit to attaching addital pairs at the demarcation point. That leaves how to clean up the structured media cabinet so I don’t have a cheap phone jack hanging from the incoming DSL cable and then another cat 5e wire (for landline) and another rj11 output for the modem. Ideally, I’m installing a patch panel anyways for the existing runs in the house. Is it not possible to connect the incoming DSL cable to a panel and jumper it to allow use for a phone line and for a modem? This would get rid of the jack and utilize an existing piece of hardware already in the cabinet.

 

[SamirD]

I understand. Based on your feedback there’s no benefit to attaching addital pairs at the demarcation point. That leaves how to clean up the structured media cabinet so I don’t have a cheap phone jack hanging from the incoming DSL cable and then another cat 5e wire (for landline) and another rj11 output for the modem. Ideally, I’m installing a patch panel anyways for the existing runs in the house. Is it not possible to connect the incoming DSL cable to a panel and jumper it to allow use for a phone line and for a modem? This would get rid of the jack and utilize an existing piece of hardware already in the cabinet.

As far as I know, there isn't really any 'punch down block' type of dsl splitter or the isps would have been using them years ago. The best you can really do is just have clean cables between the various jacks.

A picture would also help as it may give us some other ideas.

 

[Undert0w]

Demarc Point - I can leave as is (even though I think it looks like amateur hour)
https://pasteboard.co/J1nPLOO.jpg

Phone Jack - I’d like to eliminate this using a patch panel setup
https://pasteboard.co/J1nQEvp.jpg

Thanks for your patience.

 

[SamirD]

Demarc Point - I can leave as is (even though I think it looks like amateur hour)
https://pasteboard.co/J1nPLOO.jpg

Phone Jack - I’d like to eliminate this using a patch panel setup
https://pasteboard.co/J1nQEvp.jpg

Thanks for your patience.

omg, now I see why you want to clean this up.

Okay, so here's what I've figured out so far. It does seem like the blue and white wires are following the normal 568a/b ethernet wiring standard which also works for phone lines. The only challenge will be the green wires, which are normally on positions either 1&2 (568a) or 3&6 (568b). You would need to make sure you wires these as 568b so that a phone jack will use them as the secondary connectors as they are on the current phone jack.

So here's what I think you can do (and if someone finds a mistake in this please post a correction).

You can wire both ends to 568b and connect from the fibre to the demarc room. From there, you can use a cat5 straight through coupler and wire both ends of the cable going from the demac to the telephone jack as 568b. You can then use a cat5 straight through splitter to split the on connection to two jacks and connect the dsl to one of them using rj11 (it will fit in an rj45) and make a 568b end for the single line coming from the land line and connect it to the other jack. This should 'clean up' the wiring significantly, and it will also be compatible with ethernet if you ever should need that.

So the final diagram would look something like this:

    fibre<--568b---568b-->demarc<--coupler-->568b
                                              |
         rj11 to modem<--+--cat5 splitter<---568b
                         |
rj11 to landline phone<--+

 

[Ralston18]

Just following @SamirD along here....

Function over form.

Personally, I avoid wrapping the unused pairs around the host cable. If there is enough (subjective) cable available then I just trim off the unused, unconnected pairs where they exit the cable proper.

[Side note: Unfortunately many installers do not leave a service loop (extra cable) in place for redo's/repairs. Be very sure that before you do anything that there is enough extra cable in place. No spare/extra cable is a game changer. You can do things but a mistake could lead to no more room to work.]

Shorten the distance between the wires in use and their emergence from the cable. Try to limit the unenclosed wires to about 1/2 to 1 inch.

Then do not allow the cables to be supported by the punched down wires. Take the strain off of the punched down wires by using some other form of support. There are any number of support methods. Most are just a simple C-nail/clamp sized to hold the cable but not crush it. I like to use a screw instead of a nail. More control over the grip/tightness.

Google "cable clamps" to look for ideas.

However, get it all working. Ensure that it works for overall. Wait.

Then make it "pretty".

 

[Undert0w]

SamirD thank you. That looks like a nice clean solution at the demarcation point.

Personally, I avoid wrapping the unused pairs around the host cable. If there is enough (subjective) cable available then I just trim off the unused, unconnected pairs where they exit the cable proper

Would it hurt to just include all of the wired pairs into the RJ 45 plug(s)? I would think it would be cleaneast but they just wouldn’t perform a function. If anything changes from the ISP side I’m prepared from the demarcation point on.

Back to the media cabinet end...
Based on the support provided, I understand I can use my incoming DSL wire into a punch panel, output a cat5e splitter and run a line to the modem and a line back to the patch panel for the phone. To eliminate the splitter can I just “jumper” by connecting 2 punch downs from the incoming DSL?

https://pasteboard.co/J1AiFo9.jpg

 

[SamirD]

I don't think it would hurt to include all the pairs, especially if tia 568a, which is also an ethernet standard.

I'm not sure I follow you on the media cabinet, even with the diagram. Do you plan to change the demarc equpment? Or is this another location where the patch panel is?

 

[Ralston18]

With respect to the DSL "Cat5e" splitter, the requirement to split between modem and landline/ phone goes beyond the just the physical separation of wires.

Google DSL splitter circuit diagram.

There are internal components inside a DSL splitter that are not present in a physical splitter.

For example:

http://diyelectronicsprojects.blogs...-dsl-lnline-phone-filter-circuit-diagram.html

https://www.epanorama.net/documents/telecom/adsl_filter.html

Not suggesting per se that you make your own splitter (filter) although that could be an interesting project in some ways.

The overall point being that there is much more involved that simply dividing pairs of wires.

 

[SamirD]

With respect to the DSL "Cat5e" splitter, the requirement to split between modem and landline/ phone goes beyond the just the physical separation of wires.

Google DSL splitter circuit diagram.

There are internal components inside a DSL splitter that are not present in a physical splitter.

For example:

http://diyelectronicsprojects.blogs...-dsl-lnline-phone-filter-circuit-diagram.html

https://www.epanorama.net/documents/telecom/adsl_filter.html

Not suggesting per se that you make your own splitter (filter) although that could be an interesting project in some ways.

The overall point being that there is much more involved that simply dividing pairs of wires.

This is if you want to split out the dsl signal. If you are just passing on the native signal, any normal phone splitter or cat 5 splitter will do. Then you can apply a normal dsl line filter at the end point.