BF4's Mantle Patch Out But Wait for Necessary AMD Drivers

[slimething]

The 770 has no problems holding 70-80plus fps in bf4 with it maxxed at 1920x1080.

ROFLMAOSo now it's 75 FPS avg.? You guys are a hoot.

 

[dragonsqrrl]

It feels very intentionally misleading that their test case is an A10-7850K with an R9 290X.This platform would be insanely CPU-limited, which is why it sees such a large boost.Most people will have a more balanced build, or even one where the system bottleneck lies with the GPU, and would see far less of an improvement.Mantle is a Good Thing, but don't tell people to expect what they won't get :/

Yeah, the improvement with a decent CPU like the I5 or I7 is only like 2-3%. It's purely for their slow CPU/APUs. Even when the new Catalyst is released, it'll only be for the new GPUs - R8, R9 etc, they've intentionally left out 79xx, 78xx despite them being identical to R8, R7 and using GCN to trick people into upgrading.

Apparently neither of you read the performance numbers. An A10 with no discrete GPU showed a smaller performance gain than an i7 with a couple of R9-290s in crossfire. The setups they used were balanced although there weren't any midrange machines. Granted the numbers aren't trustworthy until see some more independent testing, but I'm amazed how many AMD/Intel/Apple/Android... basher's will jump on someones retarded comment just because it supports their point of view. Until there are some more real results all we can see is that it seems mantle gives a considerable performance boost.

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/news/view/bf4-mantle-live/ if you look at those charts on the performance section it clearly shows that the more CPU & GPU you give the Mantle setups the bigger the gains you get from it I mean it shows a Intel i7 3970x with radeon 290x gaining up to 58% with mantle so not sure where some of got the idea that they were only showing low end cpu/gpu combos gaining anything. thx

I think a lot of you guys aren't taking into consideration the system specs in relation to the resolution in each benchmark scenario, because that can have a big impact on creating a CPU bound situation even with an i7-3960X. I'm inclined to agree with Hilbert Hagedoorn's assessment over at Guru3D. It seems like DICE designed the benchmarks to create CPU bound situations, especially in the highest-end configuration, playing off of Mantles strengths and making the results look as good as possible in comparison to DX11. I mean, does anyone else think running a system with a 3960X and xfire 290X on a 1080p monitor is kind of absurd? Overall I think the results are a little unrealistic, and probably represent the upper end of what can be achieved with Mantle, as opposed to a real world representation of what to expect on a balanced system.

http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/dice_releases_battlefield_4_directx_vs_mantle_performance_numbers.html

 

[06yfz450ridr]

It feels very intentionally misleading that their test case is an A10-7850K with an R9 290X.This platform would be insanely CPU-limited, which is why it sees such a large boost.Most people will have a more balanced build, or even one where the system bottleneck lies with the GPU, and would see far less of an improvement.Mantle is a Good Thing, but don't tell people to expect what they won't get :/

Yeah, the improvement with a decent CPU like the I5 or I7 is only like 2-3%. It's purely for their slow CPU/APUs. Even when the new Catalyst is released, it'll only be for the new GPUs - R8, R9 etc, they've intentionally left out 79xx, 78xx despite them being identical to R8, R7 and using GCN to trick people into upgrading.

BF4 is now telling me I should use Catalyst 13.12, but because AMD screwed up and forgot to up-suffix the 13.11 driver name to 13.12 (ie when you install 13.12 it still thinks you've got 13.11), then BF4 shows this warning all the time. It's a simple issue known right from the start and they never fixed it.

So now we're meant to trust them releasing a new API for the most buggy game in history! Good luck!

No. Battlefield 4 Multiplayer is a very CPU intensive game. Almost ALL CrossfireX users suffer bottlenecks where their GPU's run at under 70% power.

Single card users that see only 5% gain are probably using a 6 core OC'd to 4+ so its not really bottlenecking.

Dice tested 2x290X's with a fx8350 and they got ~53% increase
Dice test 7970 wirh fx8350 and they got ~25% increase
Dice tested some crap 240 gpu with fx8350 got 1-2% increase.

Also why are there so many stupid people on this post hating on AMD for bringing a new technology in an ATTEMPT to open new doors. they aren't SELLING you this (unlike Nvidia... why complain?)

I run mostly 85+ on 7970 crossfire sometime in the high 90s I also increased the resolution scale to 115 and it keeps the load much higher and even higher fps

 

[tinmann]

Why the hell would they pair a $1100.00 i7 4960X with a $140.00 R7 260X and compare it to the performance gains $140.00 A10 7700k paired with a top of the line R9 290/280. I this meant to be misleading?

 

[hasten]

Too many snipers on every server make this unplayable to me now, plus I only play in Hardcore mode which there are so few servers now not worth going back to. Waiting on better games like GTA 5 and The Division for PC.

Never had any problem with snipers. Most are kiddies who are terrible anyway. Closer than 150-200m its easy to take them down (especially bf4 since only bolt) if you can control ur recoil and are accurate with an assault rifle or carbine. Find cover, listen for the shot, check the minimap (if in normal), find the glint and goodnight. If you are on a server with nothing but roofers, well then the server sucks.

 

[hasten]

That's funny considering I bought a GTX 770 in early November for BF4 and it ran like crap in graphic intensive playing on multiplayer maps. Hardocp verified this in their testing http://is.gd/PzhEZZ and was exactly my experience. It's even funnier reading the forum comments of 770 owners claiming they get 70 FPS average in BF4 at max settings.

I have 2 of them sli and its silky smooth on my benq XL @ 144hz using mix of high and ultra (no msaa, settings optimized for spotting in MP). Silky smooth as in over 144fps. Maybe it's your build. Consider that?

 

[leeb2013]

Too many snipers on every server make this unplayable to me now, plus I only play in Hardcore mode which there are so few servers now not worth going back to. Waiting on better games like GTA 5 and The Division for PC.

Too many very good pilots in planes, with 50K 0D!! Somehow pick you off whilst flying across the map in 2 seconds. I find there's barely enough time to turn around and fly back again.

 

[siman0]

It feels very intentionally misleading that their test case is an A10-7850K with an R9 290X.This platform would be insanely CPU-limited, which is why it sees such a large boost.Most people will have a more balanced build, or even one where the system bottleneck lies with the GPU, and would see far less of an improvement.Mantle is a Good Thing, but don't tell people to expect what they won't get :/

Yeah, the improvement with a decent CPU like the I5 or I7 is only like 2-3%. It's purely for their slow CPU/APUs. Even when the new Catalyst is released, it'll only be for the new GPUs - R8, R9 etc, they've intentionally left out 79xx, 78xx despite them being identical to R8, R7 and using GCN to trick people into upgrading.BF4 is now telling me I should use Catalyst 13.12, but because AMD screwed up and forgot to up-suffix the 13.11 driver name to 13.12 (ie when you install 13.12 it still thinks you've got 13.11), then BF4 shows this warning all the time. It's a simple issue known right from the start and they never fixed it.So now we're meant to trust them releasing a new API for the most buggy game in history! Good luck!

No. Battlefield 4 Multiplayer is a very CPU intensive game. Almost ALL CrossfireX users suffer bottlenecks where their GPU's run at under 70% power.Single card users that see only 5% gain are probably using a 6 core OC'd to 4+ so its not really bottlenecking.Dice tested 2x290X's with a fx8350 and they got ~53% increaseDice test 7970 wirh fx8350 and they got ~25% increaseDice tested some crap 240 gpu with fx8350 got 1-2% increase.Also why are there so many stupid people on this post hating on AMD for bringing a new technology in an ATTEMPT to open new doors. they aren't SELLING you this (unlike Nvidia... why complain?)

ive seen good resaults with an amd athlon x4 760 and a r9 290. Its about 30 fps faster on a i5 but more than playable and with all the eye candy turned on.

 

[cinergy]

Nvidia fans are already shaking in their boots.

 

[piotrk]

Sooner or later, everyones CPU will be too slow for new titles. Its just the way it goes with time. So instead of complaining, try to think, that this technology will increase your PC life and you wont have to buy a new one too fast. I think its a great idea to maximize PC power.

 

[azzazel_99]

shaking for what? Empty promises made to people who buy subpar products? In all honesty yes amd is "best bang for buck" but there are so many people who dont mind paying premiums for the best and in all reality nvidia pretty much always has the top gpu's. I for one dont like having a power hungry heater inside my computer case so i prefer to stick with nviida because they are quite, cooler and performance machines. I do miss my x800pro though and half life 2. Those were the days.

 

[leeb2013]

well since last night's update to balance weapons (I can't use Mantle because I have GCN 7950, not Rx-xxx) BF4 now completely crashes part way through each match. Yet another new thing (last time I couldn't spawn) and hasn't happened really since the beginning. Still got the bug where it thinks I'm using 13.11 not 13.12, because they forgot to change the 1 to a 2

 

[leeb2013]

Sooner or later, everyones CPU will be too slow for new titles. Its just the way it goes with time. So instead of complaining, try to think, that this technology will increase your PC life and you wont have to buy a new one too fast. I think its a great idea to maximize PC power.

It's actually very clever of AMD on several fronts (referring to this article - http://www.custompcreview.com/news/amd-catalyst-14-beta-driver-enables-mantle-frame-pacing-fix-hsa-support/19954/)

1. say it's for CGN, but only release it for new Rx-xxx cards to get as many people to switch from their 7xxx cards as possible.

2. They can't compete with high end Intel CPUs, APUs are now their target. Make mantle improve performance in a game they sponsored by 45-300% when used with their weak and cheap APUs, whilst giving almost no improvement for high end Intel CPUs, and I suspect it never will. I wouldn't put it past them to have artificially made the game very CPU hungry for CPU resource (I've seen it is for an o/c I5 for no apparent reason on an empty map)

This will make people think; I can get a high performance GPU (R9-xxx) (has to be AMD for Mantle to work) and a cheap AMD APU and I'll have superb performance in games (BF4 being the main one).

But they don't want people to stop buying their new APUs, so their next sponsored games, even with Mantle, will require their new APUs, and conveniently also won't benefit Intel CPUs in AMD's sponsored games.

Additionally, and it all makes sense - I wouldn't put it past them to have artificially made the game very hungry for CPU resource (I've seen it is for an o/c'd I5 for no apparent reason on an empty map, whilst the graphics are barely demanding for a 7950) and then magically, Mantle relieves this hunger, but only for AMD APUs! All we've seen is a couple of slides, we have no idea how Mantle really works with BF4. Clearly BF4 can easily detect what CPU you have, so I reckon it's all rigged and has been their plan all along in desperation to claw back some of the market.

 

[Mousemonkey]

Nvidia fans are already shaking in their boots.

From laughter at a seriously botched release, yes and why wouldn't they? :lol:

 

[Iggledude]

I'm no fanboy, and I understand that AMD is meant for more budget conscious gamers... or so I read. However, with ALL of AMD's flops, missed deadlines, outright misinformation and poor quality products being released why would anyone still believe or expect that AMD is the right choice.If you're a hard-core miner, I can totally see AMD being your choice. Otherwise, it just seems logical, to me at least, to choose Intel/Nvidia. (imho)

 

[gggplaya]

It feels very intentionally misleading that their test case is an A10-7850K with an R9 290X.This platform would be insanely CPU-limited, which is why it sees such a large boost.Most people will have a more balanced build, or even one where the system bottleneck lies with the GPU, and would see far less of an improvement.Mantle is a Good Thing, but don't tell people to expect what they won't get :/

I don't see a problem with this. If you are building a gaming PC from scratch, you won't see much gains. But many people buy graphics cards to upgrade an existing PC, maybe their parents bought them or a family PC or something. It's usually processor limited, so all they have to do is buy a graphics card to play the latest PC games, and seeing a 50% better performance from one card over another for certain games certainly helps in the decision of which one to buy.This is like 3DFX voodoo vs direct3D all over again. I remember playing the original grand theft auto with both drivers. The heavily optimized 3dfx voodoo was simply awsome, huge performance gains over direct3d. But ultimately the proprietary nature of 3DFX voodoo lost out to the universal nature of Direct3D.

 

[Mousemonkey]

It feels very intentionally misleading that their test case is an A10-7850K with an R9 290X.This platform would be insanely CPU-limited, which is why it sees such a large boost.Most people will have a more balanced build, or even one where the system bottleneck lies with the GPU, and would see far less of an improvement.Mantle is a Good Thing, but don't tell people to expect what they won't get :/

I don't see a problem with this. If you are building a gaming PC from scratch, you won't see much gains. But many people buy graphics cards to upgrade an existing PC, maybe their parents bought them or a family PC or something. It's usually processor limited, so all they have to do is buy a graphics card to play the latest PC games, and seeing a 50% better performance from one card over another for certain games certainly helps in the decision of which one to buy.This is like 3DFX voodoo vs direct3D all over again. I remember playing the original grand theft auto with both drivers. The heavily optimized 3dfx voodoo was simply awsome, huge performance gains over direct3d. But ultimately the proprietary nature of 3DFX voodoo lost out to the universal nature of Direct3D.

But Glide worked on all 3DFX cards and their derivatives whilst Mantle only works on a select few GCN 1.1 cards and one APU at the moment.

 

[gggplaya]

It feels very intentionally misleading that their test case is an A10-7850K with an R9 290X.This platform would be insanely CPU-limited, which is why it sees such a large boost.Most people will have a more balanced build, or even one where the system bottleneck lies with the GPU, and would see far less of an improvement.Mantle is a Good Thing, but don't tell people to expect what they won't get :/

I don't see a problem with this. If you are building a gaming PC from scratch, you won't see much gains. But many people buy graphics cards to upgrade an existing PC, maybe their parents bought them or a family PC or something. It's usually processor limited, so all they have to do is buy a graphics card to play the latest PC games, and seeing a 50% better performance from one card over another for certain games certainly helps in the decision of which one to buy.This is like 3DFX voodoo vs direct3D all over again. I remember playing the original grand theft auto with both drivers. The heavily optimized 3dfx voodoo was simply awsome, huge performance gains over direct3d. But ultimately the proprietary nature of 3DFX voodoo lost out to the universal nature of Direct3D.

But Glide worked on all 3DFX cards and their derivatives whilst Mantle only works on a select few GCN 1.1 cards and one APU at the moment.

Mantle hasn't even been released yet. It's still at the beginning stages, and obviously AMD invested time and effort into designing an architecture to give them a edge over nvidia. I'm sure all of their future graphics offerings, including their integrated graphics will be using this architecture. It would really give AMD an edge over Nvidia for people with computers that don't have the extra coin to buy a new motherboard+CPU+RAM, and simply want more frame rates however they can get it.

 

[Mousemonkey]

It feels very intentionally misleading that their test case is an A10-7850K with an R9 290X.This platform would be insanely CPU-limited, which is why it sees such a large boost.Most people will have a more balanced build, or even one where the system bottleneck lies with the GPU, and would see far less of an improvement.Mantle is a Good Thing, but don't tell people to expect what they won't get :/

I don't see a problem with this. If you are building a gaming PC from scratch, you won't see much gains. But many people buy graphics cards to upgrade an existing PC, maybe their parents bought them or a family PC or something. It's usually processor limited, so all they have to do is buy a graphics card to play the latest PC games, and seeing a 50% better performance from one card over another for certain games certainly helps in the decision of which one to buy.This is like 3DFX voodoo vs direct3D all over again. I remember playing the original grand theft auto with both drivers. The heavily optimized 3dfx voodoo was simply awsome, huge performance gains over direct3d. But ultimately the proprietary nature of 3DFX voodoo lost out to the universal nature of Direct3D.

But Glide worked on all 3DFX cards and their derivatives whilst Mantle only works on a select few GCN 1.1 cards and one APU at the moment.

Mantle hasn't even been released yet. It's still at the beginning stages, and obviously AMD invested time and effort into designing an architecture to give them a edge over nvidia. I'm sure all of their future graphics offerings, including their integrated graphics will be using this architecture. It would really give AMD an edge over Nvidia for people with computers that don't have the extra coin to buy a new motherboard+CPU+RAM, and simply want more frame rates however they can get it.

Actually it has been released and requires a 1.2GB downloaded patch, it's the driver that hasn't been released.

 

[animalosity]

I don't understand the hate....Is it just that Nvidia owners are pissed because Mantle is free and now mid-grade cards are going to be on the same playing level as their precious 780 TI for a fraction of the cost, heat, and power consumption? Mantle is not going to cost anyone anything, give AMD one of the biggest performance boosts ever for BF4 and obviously though still buggy, if successful once they do roll the driver more games will be adopting Mantle, especially since both PS4 and Xbox 1 utilize AMD hardware. It would appear that AMD has been put in the driver seat this time over Nvidia.

 

[Mousemonkey]

I don't understand the hate....Is it just that Nvidia owners are pissed because Mantle is free and now mid-grade cards are going to be on the same playing level as their precious 780 TI for a fraction of the cost, heat, and power consumption? Mantle is not going to cost anyone anything, give AMD one of the biggest performance boosts ever for BF4 and obviously though still buggy, if successful once they do roll the driver more games will be adopting Mantle, especially since both PS4 and Xbox 1 utilize AMD hardware. It would appear that AMD has been put in the driver seat this time over Nvidia.

Where's the hate? Or is it that you can't handle the fact that questions are being asked that the AMD fans can't answer?

 

[linford585]

One of the largest limitations right now is GPU support on AMD’s side. The 14.1 drivers won’t support Mantle on older GCN cards like the HD 7000 / HD 8000 series, the R9 280X and R9 270X. In addition, AMD has warned that multi GPU configurations may experience intermittent stuttering. It gets better and better, now it's only some GCN that will benefit.http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/65244-catalyst-14-1-amd-unleashes-mantle.html

All GCN cards will support Mantle immediately out the door:https://twitter.com/AMDRadeon/status/429291474958565378

 

[Mousemonkey]

One of the largest limitations right now is GPU support on AMD’s side. The 14.1 drivers won’t support Mantle on older GCN cards like the HD 7000 / HD 8000 series, the R9 280X and R9 270X. In addition, AMD has warned that multi GPU configurations may experience intermittent stuttering. It gets better and better, now it's only some GCN that will benefit.http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/65244-catalyst-14-1-amd-unleashes-mantle.html

All GCN cards will support Mantle immediately out the door:https://twitter.com/AMDRadeon/status/429291474958565378

The driver itself might but what about Mantle support in BF4?

@Mia_crazymike Yes, AMD Catalyst 14.1 Beta will support ALL desktop GCN products.

That isn't actually mentioned is it?

 

[linford585]

One of the largest limitations right now is GPU support on AMD’s side. The 14.1 drivers won’t support Mantle on older GCN cards like the HD 7000 / HD 8000 series, the R9 280X and R9 270X. In addition, AMD has warned that multi GPU configurations may experience intermittent stuttering. It gets better and better, now it's only some GCN that will benefit.http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/65244-catalyst-14-1-amd-unleashes-mantle.html

All GCN cards will support Mantle immediately out the door:https://twitter.com/AMDRadeon/status/429291474958565378

The driver itself might but what about Mantle support in BF4?

@Mia_crazymike Yes, AMD Catalyst 14.1 Beta will support ALL desktop GCN products.

That isn't actually mentioned is it?

The Mantle API is supported by all GCN cards. If you want to play a DX11.1 video game, if your card supports it and so does your driver/OS, then it will run in DX11.1 mode. Same goes for Mantle. If your card supports it, and so does your driver/OS, then if you tell a Mantle supported game to run using the Mantle render path, then it will run using Mantle.

 

[Mousemonkey]

One of the largest limitations right now is GPU support on AMD’s side. The 14.1 drivers won’t support Mantle on older GCN cards like the HD 7000 / HD 8000 series, the R9 280X and R9 270X. In addition, AMD has warned that multi GPU configurations may experience intermittent stuttering. It gets better and better, now it's only some GCN that will benefit.http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/65244-catalyst-14-1-amd-unleashes-mantle.html

All GCN cards will support Mantle immediately out the door:https://twitter.com/AMDRadeon/status/429291474958565378

The driver itself might but what about Mantle support in BF4?

@Mia_crazymike Yes, AMD Catalyst 14.1 Beta will support ALL desktop GCN products.

That isn't actually mentioned is it?

The Mantle API is supported by all GCN cards. If you want to play a DX11.1 video game, if your card supports it and so does your driver/OS, then it will run in DX11.1 mode. Same goes for Mantle. If your card supports it, and so does your driver/OS, then if you tell a Mantle supported game to run using the Mantle render path, then it will run using Mantle.

Let's hope so because if only three cards are initially supported then your post is going to look a bit daft isn't it?