News Bitcoin Mining Company Sells 26,200 Rigs to Eliminate $67M Debts

[Rogue Leader]

Do you remember NVidia's feeble attempt to lock us out with LHR? This was to pretend they care about gamers and pretend to care about gamers crying about frame rates. They didn't give a hoot about gamers at all. Let me explain. After LHR came out, they decided to use a bunch of dies that didn't pass quality control, and turn them into CMP mining cards. One problem: they came with a 3 month warranty, no resalability, can't game, no outputs, and costs more than RTX cards. Why is any miner going to buy that? If they really gave a hoot about the gamers, here's what they would have done

Let's take a look at what MSRP of gamer cards at that time were

3090 - $1499
3080 - $999
3070 - $649
3060Ti - $499

They decided to release LHR and then CMP mining cards. A CMP30 equivalent to a 1660 Super was $700. That's insane. They put on LHR, launched a big marketing campaign that said: HAVE NO FEAR GAMERS!!!!! WERE COMING!!!!!! when really what they wanted to do was LHR the cards, then charge triple for their respective CMP cards that have no resalability, high failure rates, and only 3 month warranty.

If they really cared about gamers and were really trying to help gamers, what they would have done was this:

CMP 3090 - $399
CMP 3080 - $299
CMP 3070 - $199
CMP 3060 - $169
CMP 1660S - $99

Now set those prices beside MSRP of RTX cards. What happens? All us miners go after the CMP cards. We would leave your GeForce cards alone. Supply begins to replenish. Prices drop. Gamers can now get RTX at a reasonable price. Miners have their CMP. Miners are happy. Gamers are happy. It looks good for NVidia because it would actually show that they cared about gamers, and now they've found a good use for their low quality chips which would have just been thrown out anyway. Win-win situation for everyone involved. But nope. Didn't do it. Instead, they decided to be greedy and selfish. They decided they wanted to take advantage of the shortage and the mining situation by LHRing their cards, pretending the LHR is ubhackable, then try and double charge miners for cards. Oops. Maybe should have followed through on that silly marketing campaign instead of being greedy and selfish. Trust me, a big company like NVidia. They love a big shortage like this, because it allows them to charge more too, not just eBay sellers. A big company like that, they don't care about you, they never did. It was all a big marketing ploy. They are only interested in their bottom line. They could have easily ended the shortage but chose not to. That's not us, that's them

Well if you have all the answers, you should just apply to Nvidia and share these with them. As I said, as someone who has worked in those very types of industries, its very easy for someone like you outside to come up with theories that in reality do not work at all.

What you conveniently ignore is

• Scalpers, and not just on the gaming cards, miners will be scalping eachother on these low priced CMP cards
• Miners will still buy the gaming GPUs and find away around the locks, as they did.
• Gamers will find a way to unlock the CMP GPUs and those will then undercut the sales of the gaming GPUs.
• Assuming you can even buy any of them.

I don't know how many times I need to explain GLOBAL SUPPLY SHORTAGE to you but we can keep doing this until we are blue in the face if you want. As a moderator of this site I can tell you the amount of people building new systems has gone massively down here, and only recently picked up, as people cannot find/afford to get GPUs, until just recently. Mostly we have been helping folks keep older systems alive and viable.

You can keep trying to defend yourself trying to cash in on the crypto gold rush as if you're not doing anything to perpetuate the cycle of gamers being iced out of the ability to build a gaming system, but trust me this is not a hill you want to die on.

 

[BlueOnes]

Well if you have all the answers, you should just apply to Nvidia and share these with them.

They already know this. That is why they didn't do it. They didnt do it because they need the shortage to keep prices high. Prices high = more profit for them. They LHRed the gamer cards so they can triple the price on CMP rather than ending the shortage

What you conveniently ignore is

• Scalpers, and not just on the gaming cards, miners will be scalping eachother on these low priced CMP cards
• Miners will still buy the gaming GPUs and find away around the locks, as they did.
• Gamers will find a way to unlock the CMP GPUs and those will then undercut the sales of the gaming GPUs.
• Assuming you can even buy any of them.

Right, but there will be a much bigger supply, which will make put pressure on prices. Furthermore, CMP cards can't game and have no resale value and only 3 month warranty, and only miners will buy them. Smaller audience + afformentioned issues = massive price drop. So a 3090 CMP will be $1100 instead of the $399 MSRP thanks to scalpers. That's still less than MSRP on RTX. Miners will buy CMP, we wont touch GeForce. Miners won't buy the RTX at double a CMP and try to hack it when it's easier to buy a CMP. CMP can't be unlocked for gaming because there are literally physical components missing from a CMP required to game. They can only mine.

Bottom line is: Proper CMP pricing would have made a huge difference and sent prices nose-diving. NVidia doesn't want that. They love shortages, it keeps prices high for them. That's why RTX 4000 will likely cost more than 3000, because of all of this. This works in NVidias favour. That's why they didn't end the shortage with CMP.

 

[USAFRet]

Know your audience.

Miners around here are already behind the power curve as far as popularity.

And if you start with a statement of:
"Miner here: For starters, our livelihoods are more important than your framerates. "

...you're not going to find many sympathetic ears.

 

[Rogue Leader]

They already know this. That is why they didn't do it. They didnt do it because they need the shortage to keep prices high. Prices high = more profit for them. They LHRed the gamer cards so they can triple the price on CMP rather than ending the shortage



Right, but there will be a much bigger supply, which will make put pressure on prices. Furthermore, CMP cards can't game and have no resale value and only 3 month warranty, and only miners will buy them. Smaller audience + afformentioned issues = massive price drop. So a 3090 CMP will be $1100 instead of the $399 MSRP thanks to scalpers. That's still less than MSRP on RTX. Miners will buy CMP, we wont touch GeForce. Miners won't buy the RTX at double a CMP and try to hack it when it's easier to buy a CMP. CMP can't be unlocked for gaming because there are literally physical components missing from a CMP required to game. They can only mine.

Bottom line is: Proper CMP pricing would have made a huge difference and sent prices nose-diving. NVidia doesn't want that. They love shortages, it keeps prices high for them. That's why RTX 4000 will likely cost more than 3000, because of all of this. This works in NVidias favour. That's why they didn't end the shortage with CMP.

You can't be more wrong. You are working under the assumption that CMP cards will be available and in stock. Miners looking to make money do not and will not care about spending $800 more for a gaming card that they can make work. They will make that back quickly (in theory).

Your idea sounds like it would work, to you, but again as someone who actually works in business you are assuming behavior that you have no data to back up your assumption. Miners (and gamers) will buy whatever they can get their hands on and whenever. For your idea to work Nvidia would need to have unlimited manufacturing resources, to the point these cards were in stock on shelves all the time everywhere. Then there would be no need for CMP cards, they were specifically made to try and draw Miners away from gaming cards so gamers could have a fair shot.

 

[BlueOnes]

You can't be more wrong. You are working under the assumption that CMP cards will be available and in stock. Miners looking to make money do not and will not care about spending $800 more for a gaming card that they can make work. They will make that back quickly (in theory).

Your idea sounds like it would work, to you, but again as someone who actually works in business you are assuming behavior that you have no data to back up your assumption. Miners (and gamers) will buy whatever they can get their hands on and whenever. For your idea to work Nvidia would need to have unlimited manufacturing resources, to the point these cards were in stock on shelves all the time everywhere. Then there would be no need for CMP cards, they were specifically made to try and draw Miners away from gaming cards so gamers could have a fair shot.

You're really having trouble with this one, hey?

Miners don't care about spending 800 or more on a card. That's fine. MSRP on the RTX 3090 is $1499. MSRP on the CMP 3090 is $399. So if a scalped RTX 3090 is $4000, then a scalped CMP 3090 is going to be probably $1100 by the same scale. Is a miner going to spend $4000 or $1100 for the same performance. No. They wouldn't need unlimited resources to the point where all the cards would be stocked so no need for CMP. CMP was manufactured from dies that didn't pass quality control to be a gaming GPU. That's why CMP only had 3 month warranty. Rather than throw those dies in the garbage, repurpose them for CMP at $99 to $399 as I listed prices. Miners won't spend $4000 on a scalped RTX 3090 when they can spend $1100 on a scalped CMP 3090. This will perpetually drop prices. More supply

"they were specifically made to try and draw Miners away from gaming cards so gamers could have a fair shot"

No they weren't, that's what LHR was for. If giving gamers a fair shot was their intention they would have priced CMP accordingly. A 1660S MSRP was around $250 I think. A CMP 30 which is a 1660S CMP was $700 ordered direct from NVidia....... Ya..... uh huh ......that will really work to draw the miners away from gamer cards..... Sigh.... so what instead happened is.... Rather than spend 700$ on a card that can't be resold and has a high liability, we would rather spend $250 on a card that has passed quality control, and can be resold, and we will just break the LHR. Now I know the 1660S wasn't LHRed but I just used it as example. Are you really unable to put the pieces together?

 

[Rogue Leader]

You're really having trouble with this one, hey?

Miners don't care about spending 800 or more on a card. That's fine. MSRP on the RTX 3090 is $1499. MSRP on the CMP 3090 is $399. So if a scalped RTX 3090 is $4000, then a scalped CMP 3090 is going to be probably $1100 by the same scale. Is a miner going to spend $4000 or $1100 for the same performance. No. They wouldn't need unlimited resources to the point where all the cards would be stocked so no need for CMP. CMP was manufactured from dies that didn't pass quality control to be a gaming GPU. That's why CMP only had 3 month warranty. Rather than throw those dies in the garbage, repurpose them for CMP at $99 to $399 as I listed prices. Miners won't spend $4000 on a scalped RTX 3090 when they can spend $1100 on a scalped CMP 3090.

"they were specifically made to try and draw Miners away from gaming cards so gamers could have a fair shot"

No they weren't, that's what LHR was for. If giving gamers a fair shot was their intention they would have priced CMP accordingly. A 1660S MSRP was around $250 I think. A CMP 30 which is a 1660S CMP was $700 ordered direct from NVidia. Ya, that will really work to draw the miners away from gamer cards..... Rather than spend 700$ on a card that can't be resold and has a high liability, we would rather spend $250 on a card that has passed quality control, and can be resold, and we will just break the LHR. Now I know the 1660S wasn't LHRed but I just used it as example. Are you really unable to put the pieces together?

You're really having a tough time understanding that selling those cards cheap is not magically going to introduce more product to the market. The chip itself is only one part of the entire chain (board, memory, fans, etc) all of which are/were in short supply. I will agree with you that pricing them similarly to "gamer cards" with less warranty did them no favors, but had they priced them lower, they would have sold out just as quickly if not quicker, and Miners would still need to soak up gamer product to do their job.

And again NONE of that changes the fact that they physically can't just produce more GPUs that easily. And I don't blame them, with a shortage of raw materials, and a situation that is arguably temporary (the pandemic) investing in more production capacity is a fools errand.

Feel free to believe what you want, I've explained this to you as many times as I possibly can as someone who literally has worked on the side of manufacturing product. Do you bring your car to the mechanic and then tell him how to fix it? Clearly you just don't understand how this works.

 

[BlueOnes]

Su

You're really having a tough time understanding that selling those cards cheap is not magically going to introduce more product to the market. The chip itself is only one part of the entire chain (board, memory, fans, etc) all of which are/were in short supply. I will agree with you that pricing them similarly to "gamer cards" with less warranty did them no favors, but had they priced them lower, they would have sold out just as quickly if not quicker, and Miners would still need to soak up gamer product to do their job.

And again NONE of that changes the fact that they physically can't just produce more GPUs that easily. And I don't blame them, with a shortage of raw materials, and a situation that is arguably temporary (the pandemic) investing in more production capacity is a fools errand.

Feel free to believe what you want, I've explained this to you as many times as I possibly can as someone who literally has worked on the side of manufacturing product. Do you bring your car to the mechanic and then tell him how to fix it? Clearly you just don't understand how this works.

Suppose NVidia can only produce X cards in a month. Let's pretend that number is 1,000,000 just to make it easy. So they produce 1,000,000 RTX cards. Then suddenly, they lie to gamers about caring about them, and LHR and 200,000 CMP cards show up. Where did those 200,000 CMP cards come from? Is there now 800,000 RTX cards, and 200,000 CMP cards (that's your 1 million)??? Remember, only 1,000,000 cards per month. There's a shortage, that's all they can produce. If so, that makes it even worse for gamers because there are less RTX cards being produced. I thought they were trying to help gamers?..... Or........ Or...... Is there still 1,000,000 RTX cards and now 200,000 CMP cards? That makes 1,200,000 cards total. Why were they only producing 1,000,000 cards before instead of 1,200,000? Why the extra 200,000 now? Why not before? Either they were underproducing before, or they are taking cards from gamers. That's fine that you've been working in manufacturing for 200 years and have more degrees than a thermometer, but at some point, logic steps on the throne and drops the hammer. Either they somehow, despite a shortage of boards, fans and other components managed to pull 200,000 conveniently overpriced LHR-free cards out of their ass, or they are just stripping gamers of cards. Perhaps both? I'll let you decide.

 

[JeffreyP55]

Miner here: For starters, our livelihoods are more important than your framerates. But that's besides the point. The shortage was not our fault, as much as gamers love to blame us. Its not our fault. Im sorry, it just isnt. Its NVidias fault. NVidia had a golden opportunity to end the shortage, and chose to blow it to keep prices high for profits.

Get a real job and stop contributing to outrages PC prices because of your greed. Crocodile tears for you.

 

[BlueOnes]

Get a real job and stop contributing to outrages PC prices because of your greed. Crocodile tears for you.

But that requires pissing my life away at a 9-5 job rather than being out enjoying my own personal time. That might be a problem. If you have an alternative suggestion, I'm open to hearing it. Until then, you're just gonna have to do without a couple of extra frames for a while here. Sorry. You'll be okay. You'll make it, I promise

 

[Neilbob]

But that requires pissing my life away at a 9-5 job rather than being out enjoying my own personal time. That might be a problem. If you have an alternative suggestion, I'm open to hearing it. Until then, you're just gonna have to do without a couple of extra frames for a while here. Sorry. You'll be okay. You'll make it, I promise

It's great that you created an account just to let everyone know how you've solved the problem of making everyone think you're a rather disgusting and self-entitled excuse for a human being. Congratuwelldone. Terrific job.

Also, for reference the problem wasn't with getting a 'few extra frames', as much as it was with getting any frames at all seeing as you marvellous miners had such a huge hand in creating the scarcity of ALL graphics cards.

 

[BlueOnes]

It's great that you created an account just to let everyone know how you've solved the problem of making everyone think you're a rather disgusting and self-entitled excuse for a human being. Congratuwelldone. Terrific job.

Also, for reference the problem wasn't with getting a 'few extra frames', as much as it was with getting any frames at all seeing as you marvellous miners had such a huge hand in creating the scarcity of ALL graphics cards.

Let them think that. It's a free country. As wrong as they are, they have a right to their opinion, and no one will ever take that away from them. Our war vets fought, bled, and died for that right, and we are all lucky to have it. Hats off to them

 

[logainofhades]

Well ya, just like 12 Honda civics will burn more energy than 1 freight train. So the freight train is more "environmentally friendly". Lol. Alright

Freight trains are actually way more efficient than you apparently think they are.

https://www.aar.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/AAR-Sustainability-Fact-Sheet.pdf

Tell me what other mode of transport is capable of this?

U.S. freight railroads, on average, move one ton of freight nearly 500 miles per gallon of fuel.

The diesel a freight train uses, is purely for running a generator, to power an electric motor, and has been that way for nearly 100 years.

The Biggest Hybrids: Hybrid Trains

Although trucks carry a large portion of freight in North America, for long-distance transport trains are still carrying the lion’s share. Railroads account for 43% of all intercity freight traffic…

greenerideal.com

All modern locomotives are already half-way to being hybrid vehicles. They are powered by massive diesel engines driving generators, which power the electric motors that actually drive the train. The diesel-electric locomotive is a robust design requiring relatively low maintenance, and has been in mainline service since 1929.

Frankly your freight train analogy falls quite flat.

 

[OriginFree]

Miner here: For starters, our livelihoods are more important than your framerates. But that's besides the point. The shortage was not our fault, as much as gamers love to blame us. Its not our fault. Im sorry, it just isnt. Its NVidias fault. NVidia had a golden opportunity to end the shortage, and chose to blow it to keep prices high for profits.

Sorry but incorrect.

1) Yes you're livelihood is important to you. Just as arms dealers feel that their job is important to them. Let's not pretend that you're mining to find a cure for cancer or to help 3rd world economies to grow. You're in a questionable business for your own profits (ideally as quick as possible). Which is fine, but don't delude yourself that you're needs are more important that anybody else's.

2) You blame Nvidia. Which is just incorrect. Do you not think that if it was possible to make another 50 million cards that they wouldn't have, to extract every last penny from the market? We're not living in some dream land, there are finite amounts of products. I'm not saying that non-miners are more important in this situation but saying "we're not at fault it was them" is just a fallacy. You know it and so does everybody else.

You're a business person, you're out to make a profit off of a scarce item. Econ 101: the price of a product goes up as supplies are restricted with increasing demand. Blaming miners is not right, you have every right to the product as anybody else. That is the way of the world, greed and profits come first. Just don't for a moment delude yourself in thinking you have more rights to said item than anybody else.

You got your item, good for you. Others didn't, bad for them. Now the demand is lowering, and thus the prices fall. At least until the next market and / or get rich quick scam. See you then.

 

[Rogue Leader]

Su


Suppose NVidia can only produce X cards in a month. Let's pretend that number is 1,000,000 just to make it easy. So they produce 1,000,000 RTX cards. Then suddenly, they lie to gamers about caring about them, and LHR and 200,000 CMP cards show up. Where did those 200,000 CMP cards come from? Is there now 800,000 RTX cards, and 200,000 CMP cards (that's your 1 million)??? Remember, only 1,000,000 cards per month. There's a shortage, that's all they can produce. If so, that makes it even worse for gamers because there are less RTX cards being produced. I thought they were trying to help gamers?..... Or........ Or...... Is there still 1,000,000 RTX cards and now 200,000 CMP cards? That makes 1,200,000 cards total. Why were they only producing 1,000,000 cards before instead of 1,200,000? Why the extra 200,000 now? Why not before? Either they were underproducing before, or they are taking cards from gamers. That's fine that you've been working in manufacturing for 200 years and have more degrees than a thermometer, but at some point, logic steps on the throne and drops the hammer. Either they somehow, despite a shortage of boards, fans and other components managed to pull 200,000 conveniently overpriced LHR-free cards out of their ass, or they are just stripping gamers of cards. Perhaps both? I'll let you decide.

Yeah thats just not how it works. If you somehow think the board room operates like Mr Burns on the Simpsons you have a lot to learn. I've explained more than enough here, your conspiracy theory falls flat of all logic and business logic.

 

[BlueOnes]

Freight trains are actually way more efficient than you apparently think they are.

https://www.aar.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/AAR-Sustainability-Fact-Sheet.pdf

Tell me what other mode of transport is capable of this?



The diesel a freight train uses, is purely for running a generator, to power an electric motor, and has been that way for nearly 100 years.

The Biggest Hybrids: Hybrid Trains

Although trucks carry a large portion of freight in North America, for long-distance transport trains are still carrying the lion’s share. Railroads account for 43% of all intercity freight traffic…

greenerideal.com

Frankly your freight train analogy falls quite flat.

Ugghh. It wasn't supposed to be taken literally. It was only an analogy. Sorry

 

[COLGeek]

Thank you to all who contributed to this discussion. We are done here.