News Blacklisted Huawei and SMIC to Reportedly Build Chip Fab

shady28

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Article speculates 28nm or maybe 14nm.

Keep in mind SMIC 14nm is even by SMICs data (dubious) around 30MT/mm2 which makes it like TSMC 16nm and inferior in density to every other '14nm' node. Intel 14nm for example is about 20% more dense at over 36MT/mm2. There is also some speculation that it is really closer to 20nm than 14/16nm nodes.

This would be more newsworthy if it they were advancing beyond 8-10 year old fab tech.
 
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Jan 1, 2022
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That's a very BAD BAD assumption that huawei or SMIC needs license from US.
Huawei can acquire a set of equipments from domestic or non US origins and then have SMIC fine tune or modify its 28nm or 14nm or N+1 8nm technology to fit those non US equipments.
That's the reason Huawei bring SMIC onboard, to do the fine tuning.


The author making a very BAD assumption Huawei will use US equipments and just slap SMIC tech ontop of it.
 
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shady28

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That's a very BAD BAD assumption that huawei or SMIC needs license from US.
Huawei can acquire a set of equipments from domestic or non US origins and then have SMIC fine tune or modify its 28nm or 14nm or N+1 8nm technology to fit those non US equipments.
That's the reason Huawei bring SMIC onboard, to do the fine tuning.


The author making a very BAD assumption Huawei will use US equipments and just slap SMIC tech ontop of it.
Yeah it is actually in some other articles that SMIC 14nm was mostly using indigenous tech. I would assume some or even most of it is stolen in terms of design, ofc good luck getting anywhere near the fab equipment to prove it. However it doesn't sound like they are going to AMSL for their equipment at 14nm. There was a lot of noise last year about them getting to 7nm, but that seemed to be more of a small time prototype, clearly not something they're ready to do in any volume.

Nevertheless a big high volume 14nm fab is itself a big deal. Most phones and PCs sold in the world are not the high end stuff talked about on sites like this one, 14nm is still pretty advanced for just about anything other than high end server/client/mobile compute. There's a huge laundry list of fabs outside of TSMC/Intel who still aren't below 28nm.
 

systemBuilder_49

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Nevertheless a big high volume 14nm fab is itself a big deal. Most phones and PCs sold in the world are not the high end stuff talked about on sites like this one, 14nm is still pretty advanced for just about anything other than high end server/client/mobile compute. There's a huge laundry list of fabs outside of TSMC/Intel who still aren't below 28nm.
Where did you get this idea Apple A14 chips are using 5nm and qualcomm latest-generation chips are 5-7nm made at TSMC. Samsung is fabbing NVidia GPUs at 8nm. You have to go back 3Y to see 14nm (snapdragon 820). Global foundries is 12nm because they ran out of money for 10nm and below. Ryzen 1st and 2nd generation chips were fabbed at Global Foundries and I think some 3rd generation chips are also being made there. IBM is at 7nm or below. Micron Technology is between 11nm and 13nm. The phrase that "only TSMC/Intel is below 28nm" is utter BS.
 
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shady28

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Where did you get this idea Apple A14 chips are using 5nm and qualcomm latest-generation chips are 5-7nm made at TSMC. Samsung is fabbing NVidia GPUs at 8nm. You have to go back 3Y to see 14nm (snapdragon 820). Global foundries is 12nm because they ran out of money for 10nm and below. Ryzen 1st and 2nd generation chips were fabbed at Global Foundries and I think some 3rd generation chips are also being made there. IBM is at 7nm or below. Micron Technology is between 11nm and 13nm. The phrase that "only TSMC/Intel is below 28nm" is utter BS.
So I try to be cordial, but not to people who misquote me.

What I said was : "There's a huge laundry list of fabs outside of TSMC/Intel who still aren't below 28nm. ". I never said "only TSMC/Intel is below 28nm", that would be you lying about what I said.

Perhaps your reading comprehension needs a bit of work, aye?

This is a simple undeniable fact: The vast, vast, vast majority of fabs in use are not below 14nm. You probably should look inside that PC you are using and count the chips and try to figure out what node they're all using, you'd be suprised. While you're at it, maybe check up on what's inside your clock, your microwave, your car, and your fridge.

Perhaps what is misleading you is the concept of 'best selling phone', which is usually an iPhone (which I have bought 3 this year). Here's the thing - most people do not have iPhones. Nor do they have samsungs. There are quite literally hundreds of phone models for sale. Being #1 - #5 doesn't mean the majority are in those top 5. This is pretty basic math. Many MediaTek based phones are still using SoCs on 12-28nm.

This may help you get some perspective and step out of that bubble:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semiconductor_fabrication_plants
 

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