Question Bootable clone ?

[Artisanico]

Hi,
Just a few questions:
1) Can you make a bootable clone to external SSD from HDD?
2) Can a simple amateur like me easily connect an SSD to use as an internal C_drive (and is it advisable?)?
3) Can I expect any complications when Win 10 become unsupported or will everything update automatically?

TIA.

 

[USAFRet]

I have had really bad experiences with HDDs popping on me, three or four of them in the space of a week when there is a heatwave (hence I nearly lost ALL my data for good) and that's why, in the current one we're having in the UK, I have my fan blowing constantly at my open PC. How do SSD's bear up in heatwaves?

A "heatwave" noticeable by humans is not even a speedbump in the operating temp of drives...HDD or SSD.

A human level 'heatwave' might be 102F/39C

The various SSDs in my system idle at that number.

 

[USAFRet]

Free and simple app to replace MS ICE

https://grok.com/share/bGVnYWN5_8ead7025-2b0a-4517-8923-68836daf2131

While somewhat helpful, we try to discourage AI only responses here.
Have you used any of those tools?

 

[cruisetung]

While somewhat helpful, we try to discourage AI only responses here.
Have you used any of those tools?

No. OP needs to verify the claims himself.

How do you completely avoid AI answer completely? Even Google starts to use its own AI when you do a search.

 

[USAFRet]

No. OP needs to verify the claims himself.

Right.
And thats why we tend to discourage AI replies.
The person who posts them has no idea if what it spits out is good advice.


Moving on....

 

[Artisanico]

OK, see this.....

-----------------------------
Specific steps for a successful clone operation:
-----------------------------
Verify the actual used space on the current drive is significantly below the size of the new SSD
Both drives must be the same partitioning scheme, either MBR or GPT
Download and install Macrium Reflect (or Samsung Magician (which includes Data Migration), if a Samsung target SSD)
If you are cloning from a SATA drive to PCIe/NVMe, you may need to install the relevant driver for this new NVMe/PCIe drive.
Power off
Disconnect ALL drives except the current C and the new SSD
Power up

Verify the system boots with ONLY the current "C drive" connected.
If not, we have to fix that first.

Run the Macrium Reflect (or Samsung Data Migration)
Select ALL the partitions on the existing C drive

[Ignore this section if using the SDM. It does this automatically]
If you are going from a smaller drive to a larger, by default, the target partition size will be the same as the Source. You probably don't want that
You can manipulate the size of the partitions on the target (larger)drive
Click on "Cloned Partition Properties", and you can specify the resulting partition size, to even include the whole thing
[/end ignore]

Click the 'Clone' button
Wait until it is done
When it finishes, power off
Disconnect ALL drives except for the new SSD. This is not optional.
This is to allow the system to try to boot from ONLY the SSD

(swapping cables is irrelevant with NVMe drives, but DO disconnect the old drive for this next part)
Swap the SATA cables around so that the new drive is connected to the same SATA port as the old drive
Power up, and verify the BIOS boot order
If good, continue the power up

It should boot from the new drive, just like the old drive.
Maybe reboot a time or two, just to make sure.

If it works, and it should, all is good.

Later, reconnect the old drive and wipe all partitions on it.
This will probably require the commandline diskpart function, and the clean command.

Ask questions if anything is unclear.
-----------------------------

Thanks. Actually I have got AOMEI, and I trust that will be sufficient?

 

[USAFRet]

Thanks. Actually I have got AOMEI, and I trust that will be sufficient?

Probably.

Or, since you have a Samsung target drive, the Samsung Data Migration is recommended.

 

[Artisanico]

What is your overall budget?
Going to Win 11 WILL mean a whole new system.

The last thing I wanted to do was get a whole new system. I thought you were asking about my budget for graphics programmes, but I evidently misunderstood you. If I get a new system, presumably using a cloned C-drive wouldn't work? I have loads of programmes on my system which will all need to be installed (the biggest worry being Miktex, which runs with my (ancient) version of TexnicCenter, which in turn needs to be connected with a PDF-creating programme - something I always really struggle with).

 

[USAFRet]

The last thing I wanted to do was get a whole new system. I thought you were asking about my budget for graphics programmes, but I evidently misunderstood you. If I get a new system, presumably using a cloned C-drive wouldn't work? I have loads of programmes on my system which will all need to be installed (the biggest worry being Miktex, which runs with my (ancient) version of TechnixCenter, which in turn needs to be connected with a PDF-creating programme - something I always really struggle with).

Correct...with a new system, a clone of the current drive won't work.

But...your existing system is pretty ancient.
Performancewise, anything even a little bit recent blows it out of the water.

And anything can be reinstalled. Often, with a newer, better version.

 

[Misgar]

But I'd try to keep it below £40.

There's a world of difference between low-end SATA SSDs without DRAM cache and more expensive SATA SSDs with speedy DRAM cache if you want to boot Windows from SATA.

I'm currently playing with an old i5-4670K system and I've just cloned a cheap (slow) Lexar SATA SSD (no DRAM) to a fast 500GB Samsung 870 EVO SSD (with DRAM).

Windows random/read write operations benefit significantly from the DRAM cache on the 870 and the whole system feels much faster.

The 500GB EVO 870 is one of the SATA SSDs suggested by @USAFRet in the link to Amazon.co.uk, where today's price is £49.86, i.e. £9.86 more than your £40 budget.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-Electronics-Internal-MZ-77E250B-AM/dp/B08QBN5J9B

If you're tempted to "cheap out" and buy a slower SATA SSD, the 1TB Patriot P220 is only £47.99; cheaper than the 870 EVO 500GB and double the capacity. The problem is the Patriot P220 doesn't have DRAM.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Patriot-P220-Internal-Solid-State/dp/B0BS9Z2FFT

I've used Patriot SATA SSDs as boot drives in the past, all the way down to 120GB. Windows will boot up, but they're SLOW. I don't mind sluggish performance on unimportant systems, but if you can face spending £50 on an SSD with DRAM, you'll get a much faster boot drive. See below:
https://techwiser.com/do-ssds-with-dram-matter-and-how-to-identify-them/

that's why, in the current one we're having in the UK, I have my fan blowing constantly at my open PC.

A good idea, but it sounds like your computer case does not have "enough" standard cooling for the hard disks. I've got two 3TB hard disks running in and this ancient Cooler Master Active Thermal Cooling System case and they're sitting at +31 and +32°C.

The drive cage is mounted behind two small 80x80mm fans which keep the drives at sensible temperatures, even though it's supposed to reach roughly +34°C outside today. Nowhere near as hot as some countries I've visited.

I do have a "problem" hot-running 4TB Enterprise class drive in my media PC which hit +53°C yesterday. The cooling fan in front of the drive is running flat out, but it's not generating enough air flow (presumably designed for low noise in an HTPC). I could fit a cooler-running commercial hard disk or fit a better fan.

 

[Artisanico]

The old HDD that I had been trying to open in Win+E remains a problem. I got all the data off it (without a folder tree!) using Disk Drill, and it looked like it was very easily recoverable. However, it won't format - neither quick format nor full format, even now that I have undone the write protect. Does this mean the disk is simply finished? TIA.

 

[Artisanico]

OK, see this.....

-----------------------------
Specific steps for a successful clone operation:
-----------------------------
Verify the actual used space on the current drive is significantly below the size of the new SSD
Both drives must be the same partitioning scheme, either MBR or GPT
Download and install Macrium Reflect (or Samsung Magician (which includes Data Migration), if a Samsung target SSD)
If you are cloning from a SATA drive to PCIe/NVMe, you may need to install the relevant driver for this new NVMe/PCIe drive.
Power off
Disconnect ALL drives except the current C and the new SSD
Power up

Verify the system boots with ONLY the current "C drive" connected.
If not, we have to fix that first.

Run the Macrium Reflect (or Samsung Data Migration)
Select ALL the partitions on the existing C drive

[Ignore this section if using the SDM. It does this automatically]
If you are going from a smaller drive to a larger, by default, the target partition size will be the same as the Source. You probably don't want that
You can manipulate the size of the partitions on the target (larger)drive
Click on "Cloned Partition Properties", and you can specify the resulting partition size, to even include the whole thing
[/end ignore]

Click the 'Clone' button
Wait until it is done
When it finishes, power off
Disconnect ALL drives except for the new SSD. This is not optional.
This is to allow the system to try to boot from ONLY the SSD

(swapping cables is irrelevant with NVMe drives, but DO disconnect the old drive for this next part)
Swap the SATA cables around so that the new drive is connected to the same SATA port as the old drive
Power up, and verify the BIOS boot order
If good, continue the power up

It should boot from the new drive, just like the old drive.
Maybe reboot a time or two, just to make sure.

If it works, and it should, all is good.

Later, reconnect the old drive and wipe all partitions on it.
This will probably require the commandline diskpart function, and the clean command.

Ask questions if anything is unclear.
-----------------------------

Is there anything I need to be aware of with SSD's? For example, with HDD's I would have been glad to know that they ought to be either horizontal or vertical to avoid parts wear; and that they are vulnerable to hot weather. Do SSD's have a good life expectancy for data retention?

 

[cruisetung]

The old HDD that I had been trying to open in Win+E remains a problem. I got all the data off it (without a folder tree!) using Disk Drill, and it looked like it was very easily recoverable. However, it won't format - neither quick format nor full format, even now that I have undone the write protect. Does this mean the disk is simply finished? TIA.

Usually you can see errors in Windows Event Viewer

Do SSD's have a good life expectancy for data retention?

Like HDD, SSD can die anytime, a sudden current surge can kill it easily, you should have a backup

It's also reported you can't keep SSD offline for too long, however no experience.

 

[Artisanico]

Usually you can see errors in Windows Event Viewer



Like HDD, SSD can die anytime, a sudden current surge can kill it easily, you should have a backup

It's also reported you can't keep SSD offline for too long, however no experience.

There's no surge protection?

 

[Artisanico]

Usually you can see errors in Windows Event Viewer

Under which heading?

 

[cruisetung]

There's no surge protection?

Probably not. I have a SanDisk SSD died on me one day for no reason years ago, can't warranty it since I couldn't find the receipt. It's not even over a year.

Under which heading?

Can be many

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=event+viewer+disk+error

 

[Misgar]

There's no surge protection?

I had to look up "surge damage" on SSDs and discovered it can happen when you experience a major disturbance on the AC mains supply. My guess is the ATX PSU fails to completely isolate short-term high-level mains transients, e.g. voltage spikes.
https://www.reddit.com/r/techsupport/comments/3ayre1/ssd_possibly_ruined_by_power_surge/

Whether or not it's excessive voltage getting through on the +5V supply to a SATA SSD/+3.3V supply to an M.2 drive, or a "current surge" (whatever that is) I don't know. I suppose excessive voltage on the SSD could cause internal components to go short-circuit, which might then draw excessive current and complete the burn out process. Does anyone know the actual process?

I seem to remember Enterprise Class SSDs used to incorporate a bank of capacitors to retain enough charge during unexpected power outages, so the drive had enough time to flush the contents of the write buffers and avoid data corruption. I'd expect (expensive) Enterprise drives to include some form of over-voltage surge protection, but it's probably too expensive to include in all low cost commercial drives.

For example, with HDD's I would have been glad to know that they ought to be either horizontal or vertical to avoid parts wear;

I have two HP servers where all the 3.5" hard disks are mounted on their sides. Presumably HP-certified drives don't mind running this way.

SSDs are more robust as regards mounting and shock damage. If you subject a spinning hard disk to a 300g+ shock, you may get head crashes. You can bash or drop many SSDs with relative impunity, up to a certain point.

Some M.2. SSDs can run hot and include over-temperature protection, which might kick in at circa +80 to +95°C °C. I have a few 2.5" SATA SSDs where the case feels slighly warm to the touch, but I've never bothered to actively cool them,

Modern motherboards fitted with M.2 slots often include integral heatsinks to keep NVMe drives cool. Some M.2 drives run cool without a heatsink, others require a heatsink to avoid thermal throttling.

However, it won't format - neither quick format nor full format, even now that I have undone the write protect. Does this mean the disk is simply finished?

Accept the fact that disk drives die. I've lost count of the number of hard disks I've thrown away (recycled) over the years. I have some drives (ex-server pulls) with over 40,000 hours use, but a brand new NAS drive died after only 10 hours.

 

[USAFRet]

There's no surge protection?

Just like anything else built by humans.,...they can die.
Often, suddenly, with no warning.

Keep good backups.

 

[popatim]

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/1lmquua/microsoft_extends_free_windows_10_security/