BSOD (rare) after replacing dual core with quad core

[peterh337]

I am new here but have been reading this excellent site for a long time.

I have read many threads on similar issues.

Background:
Built many PCs over many years
P5K-E MB, 4GB RAM, E8400 changed to QX9650
Windows XP SP3
High quality 650W PSU
Big CPU cooler, +50C max silicon temp
BIOS was reset to default values after changing the CPU
BIOS updated to the latest version, specifically required for the QX9650

The BSOD is highly random and appears for a fraction of a second so I can't capture it; then it reboots. It happens every 1-2 days; PC runs 24/7 and always has. It happens a lot more when I am doing something on the machine.

I suspected Firefox (which nowadays has many issues, esp. with massive memory usage) and set the affinity on firefox.exe to just 1 core and that seemed to help a little. Disabling Kaspersky AV doesn't help (but the PC runs a lot better ).

Previous system, E8400, ran for 2 years, 24/7. Also I do a lot of rendering in Vegas 11 and Handbrake and this uses all four cores to 99-100% and that never crashes it.

Curiously, changing the RAM and the QX9650 for a Q9550 (both quad core, one very slightly slower) makes no difference to the BSODs.

I know Windows rebuilds the hardware tree at every startup, so this should not happen.

Curiously, after the BSOD I do *not* get disk (SATA HD 1TB) corruption. So it never seems to happen while a file is being written. Normally, after a Windows crash you do get file system issues and the CHKDSK run when Windows restarts, but in this case never.

Is there some known issue which fits the above description?

The reason for running XP is due to specific (old, CAD/EDA) software, and is complicated.

My next action is to rebuild the PC with a GA-EX58-UD5 (the top spec MB which still has XP drivers for the chipset) and an i7-970 and new 8GB RAM and hope the problem magically goes away...

Many thanks for any pointers.

 

[GhislainG]

There's nothing recorded in the event logs? You could try to uncheck "Automatically restart" to see the error.

 

[peterh337]

That's a very good point - I will do that and see what happens. I forgot that option existed

 

[GhislainG]

I still run XP, but I virtualized it.

 

[peterh337]

I captured the BSOD... the "usual" 7F error code
http://peter-ftp.co.uk/screenshots/2016-05-09-230625.jpg
The event log shows nothing at all.

 

[GhislainG]

If no software changed, then the CPU may have an issue or you may have to modify some settings in the BIOS to make it stable.

 

[peterh337]

I changed the CPU once already, from a QX9650 to a Q9550.

There are various suggestions online regarding BIOS settings e.g. disabling Speedstep, but I have not found anything that makes a difference.

The one thing which is apparent is that the BSODs are heavily related to using Firefox. But that could simply be that FF is by far the most memory consuming app I have, and there is a memory access issue. That could be the RAM or the motherboard.

 

[GhislainG]

You could test the RAM with Memtest86+ running overnight.

 

[peterh337]

I ran it all night. 7 passes, 0 errors.

 

[GhislainG]

Then it most likely isn't a memory issue. I suspect the motherboard that's getting older, but are you willing to spend money to replace it? Inspect the caps in the VRM area; are there any that don't look like new (bulging or leaking)?

 

[peterh337]

My next action is to rebuild the PC with a GA-EX58-UD5 (the top spec MB which still has XP drivers for the chipset) and an i7-970 and new 8GB RAM and hope the problem magically goes away...

The existing MB will be scrapped.

The capacitors (a well known problem indeed) look fine.

 

[GhislainG]

Rebuilding with a GA-EX58-UD5 would be a good solution, but couldn't you virtualize that XP system?

Edit: You have a quality PSU, but could you try another one? Even the best can have issues.

 

[peterh337]

My plan is to build a dual-boot winXP/win7 setup, and move to win7 all I can, over time. The common stuff will run fine.

I know for a fact that some apps will have to stay under XP but I don't use those very often.

It could be the PSU but the problems started with the quad core processors, and the PSU is "650W" which should be enough by a huge margin. I might put in a new one however...

 

[GhislainG]

The new CPU draws more power; therefore testing with another PSU (even one that's less powerful) would help you to confirm the motherboard probably is the issue. I also need XP, but virtualizing it met my requirements and I got rid of the old socket 775 system.

 

[peterh337]

I appear to have solved this by throwing out the motherboard and RAM and putting in another P5K-E (Ebay), with new RAM (Ebay), and the QX9650 CPU which I used before.

So far, no BSODs in by far the worst offending program (Firefox) and I have done video rendering runs in Handbrake (four cores at 50%) and Vegas (four cores at 100%), max silicon temp measured at +66C, and all fine.

The RAM tested fine with memtest86+ so I assume it was OK and I will keep it, but the MB will get binned, after I extracted the heat pipes which are handy for other projects

My 6-core i7 replacement is not going too well however, so it is just as well that I got this PC working:
www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-3060760/ex58-ud5-starting-build.html

 

[GhislainG]

I read your other post. Unless they are used and manufactured several years ago, the G.Skill modules that you bought probably are single-sided (8 ICs on one side). All 4 GB and 8 GB modules on the QVL are double-sided (16 ICs, 8 ICs on each side). If I were you I'd try dual-sided modules or a set of old 1 GB modules. A used 8 GB kit manufactured in 2011 or before should be compatible because they were using low-density ICs and 16 chips were required.

 

[peterh337]

I am really sorry for the dumb question but could you go to ebay.co.uk and show me some which you think may work and give me 8GB total?

The modules I have are dated 2014 so quite recent.

I am really confused by the various descriptions...

The memory list for this MB shows some DS modules:

Also I need to go for 2GB sticks to get 8GB on this MB.

AIUI I can get 6GB using six 1GB sticks, which is better than nothing (for win7) but I can't believe this MB would have been crippled in that way.

The exact numbers on the QVL don't currently appear on Ebay, which is surprising.

 

[peterh337]

Update:

Having chucked out the motherboard, swapped out the memory and the CPU, the BSODs are back!

They appear only when Firefox is running!

I cannot make it BSOD by heavy CPU activity e.g. Sony Vegas rendering a 1080P video for 10 hours, all 4 QX9650 cores at 100%, silicon temp +67C on the hottest core.

So what's changed?

Going from 2-core 8400 CPU to the 4-core 9650 or 9550 (both the latter would BSOD).

Maybe the P5K-E MB simply doesn't work with winXP and 4-core CPUs... doesn't seem likely because XP was #1 when this MB was "around".

I also installed a different video card but that was a week before the CPU change.

Could the PSU be faulty in a way which is *not* load-related? Sure it can be but it won't know I am running Firefox

Could it be the HD? It is a high-end Western Digital 1TB SATA, on the MB SATA controller, BIOS configured as Compatible / IDE mode (I always use that BIOS mode because the enhanced modes deliver almost no speed-up, and this way I can put the HD in another machine and everything can read it). 2 years old and running 24/7.

What would be today's high-end SATA HD, 10k but not overly noisy? I can use only 3Gb/sec.

 

[GhislainG]

Unless you need a large HDD I'd suggest a SSD. It will be slower than it would be on a newer system, but still much faster than a 10k drive.

 

[peterh337]

An SSD doesn't work on XP. It lasts about a year on a 24/7 machine. I have trashed a number of them.

I think XP writes about once a second and after a year it uses up the write allowance at which point every block has seen the # of max writes per block.

SSDs work great on laptops which get switched on only occassionally.

 

[GhislainG]

Would a 7200 RPM WD Black meet your requirements? They have been reliable in my home servers that run 24x7 (with an XP VM on one of them).

 

[peterh337]

Many thanks. Looks good - just bought one

Interesting how few 10000rpm drives there are nowadays.

 

[GhislainG]

10k and 15k SAS drives are easy to get, but SATA drives are limited. A new WD Black is faster than most older 10k drives.

 

[peterh337]

More googling suggests that my graphics card, GTX750, is known for BSODs with not just winXP but also win7...

That is an NVIDIA card, which makes it implausible that it would do it on win7. But would it do it on winXP too? I cannot believe that, given the high profile of both XP and NVIDIA at the relevant time. That's unless NVIDIA changed the silicon but didn't debug the XP drivers...

Anyway, that leads to AMD as the only other reasonable-performance (1080P 60FPS video; forget 4k) choice, and the Radeon R7 2xx.

 

[GhislainG]

I have a GTX 750 on a Windows 8.1 system and it hasn't caused issues and it didn't while I was running Windows 7. However my hardware is different.