Hello,
I thought about putting this in the CAD section, but it seems like responses in those threads are few and far between......and this concerns a new, ground-up homebuilt system. I need a workstation-level system but I can't afford a Xeon machine at the moment. I primarily work in AutoCAD 2D, but will also be working in Revit MEP before the year is out. Please note my issues that I am having with my current machine that I discuss below my existing system specs, and my proposed system. I would especially appreciate fellow 2D AutoCAD drafters to weigh in on these specific issues. Thank you.
Current PC:
CPU - i5-2500K @4.5GHz
Motherboard - ASUS P8Z68-V Pro
HDD - Samsung HD103SJ 7200 RPM
RAM - 8GB (2x4) Kingston HyperX 1333 1.5v
Graphics - EVGA GTX-570 2560MB RAM, stock clocks
Air cooler - CM Hyper 212+
PSU - Antec Earthwatts 650
Case - Fractal Design Arc Midi (mid-tower)
Proposed new PC: Budget - preferably under $1,200 (or lower if there happens to be sales on some items)
CPU Option 1 - i7-2600K (probably will overclock it)
Option 2 - i7-3820 (probably will overclock it)
Motherboard Option 1 - some z68 or z77 mobo; I really like my Asus so I might just get the same board
Option 2 - some x79 mobo (probably Asus) with 8-RAM slots
SSD - I figured I would use an SSD for the boot drive and to hold my apps like AutoCAD, don't know which one to pick at the moment, I have heard good things about the Intel models, and also the Samsung drives. Capacity - 120GB, but would like +200 GB if the price is right.
HDD - Probably reuse an existing 500GB HDD that I have laying around - for data storage
RAM - Option 1 - 16 or 32 GB - depending on prices of 8GB modules; 1333MHz, 1.5v
Option 2 - 32 or 64 GB - depending on prices of 8GB modules; 1600MHz, 1.5v
Graphics - Re-use my GTX-570 to start with
Air Cooler - Something better than the Hyper 212+ for a little more money, looking at some of the Zalman coolers in the $50-$90 range
PSU - Antec, Corsair or Seasonic 750 or 850 watts, minimum Bronze 80+ rated, preferably silver or gold rated if pricing is right; modular or normal
Case - Corsair 550D mid-tower; or - Fractal Design Define R3; or - Fractal Design Define XL
Okay, now to the issues that I have that I hope to improve upon with a stronger build.
My current i5 setup is used for gaming, general purpose entertainment, internet, streaming, etc. It also serves as my AutoCAD workstation for the time being. I have the processor at 4.5GHz, so I can't really push that too much harder. I notice performance issues while drafting in 2D AutoCAD, and just to make sure it wasn't some corrupted file related or something, I created a few "test dwgs" from scratch by just drawing some circles with a bunch of lines (like a spiderweb); these I copied a gazillion times. I ended up with dwg files of varying sizes, from ~1MB to ~8MB. I tested a few simple commands like window selecting all objects, erasing, etc.
Test results - not very "scientific", but might give a decent idea of the slow-ups that I experience and wish to improve:
- 8MB file: 10-12 seconds to open; selecting ALL objects takes ~3 seconds; zooming and mouse cursor movement is extremely slow and choppy (as if I had the grid snap turned on, but I don't); erasing all the objects - ~500,000 separate objects - REALLY hangs up, says "not responding" and takes over a minute to complete.
- 4MB file: 3 seconds to open; 2 seconds to select all objects; 10-12 seconds to erase all objects - 236,000 separate objects; cursor movement and zooming are not as slow when all objects are selected, but still intolerable.
-2MB file: This is the file size point where it seems the lag time for selecting a bunch of objects, erasing, zooming, cursor movement becomes acceptable to me.
- I guess I need to hear from other AutoCAD users to determine if these are typical performance issues with varying file sizes, and no amount of overclocked CPU and memory power is going to improve them - or - if it is related in part to memory speed, type, etc. and improvements can be made. I realize the opening and saving of the files is mostly a HDD speed (or lack of) issue, that I plan to improve by running apps off of a reliable SSD. I have done all the usual tricks of adjusting WHIPTHREAD variable, enabling hardware acceleration, etc. Is this pretty much as good as it gets?
So, given all that, I need some input on my near-future workstation upgrade. I was planning to build a system around the i7-2600K (Option 1) regardless, because I got one for $200 at Micro Center. However, if running quad-channel RAM at higher stock clocks and perhaps SLI'ing two 570's or 680's together with the full x16 lanes available to both cards (Option 2) would improve some of the issues I am having (which seem to be graphics or memory speed/bandwidth or both), then I would consider it worth selling the 2600K and spending a little more for the 3820 and more expensive motherboard.
Any links to benchmarks or performance comparisons between these two processors and the type of RAM they run, related to AutoCAD and other design software would be appreciated. I have searched, but only found conflicting reports on the advantage of using RAM in a wider bandwidth-capable motherboard for CAD applications; some say it makes a significant difference, some say it doesn't.
Sorry for the extremely long-winded and loaded post, but I really need help here - I am basically working on my own for one person, attempting an amount of work that would normally be divided among several CAD techs and one managing engineer. I need to be able to draft fast, without cursor lag - those seconds add up to minutes, and hours lost over time (and frustration).
I thought about putting this in the CAD section, but it seems like responses in those threads are few and far between......and this concerns a new, ground-up homebuilt system. I need a workstation-level system but I can't afford a Xeon machine at the moment. I primarily work in AutoCAD 2D, but will also be working in Revit MEP before the year is out. Please note my issues that I am having with my current machine that I discuss below my existing system specs, and my proposed system. I would especially appreciate fellow 2D AutoCAD drafters to weigh in on these specific issues. Thank you.
Current PC:
CPU - i5-2500K @4.5GHz
Motherboard - ASUS P8Z68-V Pro
HDD - Samsung HD103SJ 7200 RPM
RAM - 8GB (2x4) Kingston HyperX 1333 1.5v
Graphics - EVGA GTX-570 2560MB RAM, stock clocks
Air cooler - CM Hyper 212+
PSU - Antec Earthwatts 650
Case - Fractal Design Arc Midi (mid-tower)
Proposed new PC: Budget - preferably under $1,200 (or lower if there happens to be sales on some items)
CPU Option 1 - i7-2600K (probably will overclock it)
Option 2 - i7-3820 (probably will overclock it)
Motherboard Option 1 - some z68 or z77 mobo; I really like my Asus so I might just get the same board
Option 2 - some x79 mobo (probably Asus) with 8-RAM slots
SSD - I figured I would use an SSD for the boot drive and to hold my apps like AutoCAD, don't know which one to pick at the moment, I have heard good things about the Intel models, and also the Samsung drives. Capacity - 120GB, but would like +200 GB if the price is right.
HDD - Probably reuse an existing 500GB HDD that I have laying around - for data storage
RAM - Option 1 - 16 or 32 GB - depending on prices of 8GB modules; 1333MHz, 1.5v
Option 2 - 32 or 64 GB - depending on prices of 8GB modules; 1600MHz, 1.5v
Graphics - Re-use my GTX-570 to start with
Air Cooler - Something better than the Hyper 212+ for a little more money, looking at some of the Zalman coolers in the $50-$90 range
PSU - Antec, Corsair or Seasonic 750 or 850 watts, minimum Bronze 80+ rated, preferably silver or gold rated if pricing is right; modular or normal
Case - Corsair 550D mid-tower; or - Fractal Design Define R3; or - Fractal Design Define XL
Okay, now to the issues that I have that I hope to improve upon with a stronger build.
My current i5 setup is used for gaming, general purpose entertainment, internet, streaming, etc. It also serves as my AutoCAD workstation for the time being. I have the processor at 4.5GHz, so I can't really push that too much harder. I notice performance issues while drafting in 2D AutoCAD, and just to make sure it wasn't some corrupted file related or something, I created a few "test dwgs" from scratch by just drawing some circles with a bunch of lines (like a spiderweb); these I copied a gazillion times. I ended up with dwg files of varying sizes, from ~1MB to ~8MB. I tested a few simple commands like window selecting all objects, erasing, etc.
Test results - not very "scientific", but might give a decent idea of the slow-ups that I experience and wish to improve:
- 8MB file: 10-12 seconds to open; selecting ALL objects takes ~3 seconds; zooming and mouse cursor movement is extremely slow and choppy (as if I had the grid snap turned on, but I don't); erasing all the objects - ~500,000 separate objects - REALLY hangs up, says "not responding" and takes over a minute to complete.
- 4MB file: 3 seconds to open; 2 seconds to select all objects; 10-12 seconds to erase all objects - 236,000 separate objects; cursor movement and zooming are not as slow when all objects are selected, but still intolerable.
-2MB file: This is the file size point where it seems the lag time for selecting a bunch of objects, erasing, zooming, cursor movement becomes acceptable to me.
- I guess I need to hear from other AutoCAD users to determine if these are typical performance issues with varying file sizes, and no amount of overclocked CPU and memory power is going to improve them - or - if it is related in part to memory speed, type, etc. and improvements can be made. I realize the opening and saving of the files is mostly a HDD speed (or lack of) issue, that I plan to improve by running apps off of a reliable SSD. I have done all the usual tricks of adjusting WHIPTHREAD variable, enabling hardware acceleration, etc. Is this pretty much as good as it gets?
So, given all that, I need some input on my near-future workstation upgrade. I was planning to build a system around the i7-2600K (Option 1) regardless, because I got one for $200 at Micro Center. However, if running quad-channel RAM at higher stock clocks and perhaps SLI'ing two 570's or 680's together with the full x16 lanes available to both cards (Option 2) would improve some of the issues I am having (which seem to be graphics or memory speed/bandwidth or both), then I would consider it worth selling the 2600K and spending a little more for the 3820 and more expensive motherboard.
Any links to benchmarks or performance comparisons between these two processors and the type of RAM they run, related to AutoCAD and other design software would be appreciated. I have searched, but only found conflicting reports on the advantage of using RAM in a wider bandwidth-capable motherboard for CAD applications; some say it makes a significant difference, some say it doesn't.
Sorry for the extremely long-winded and loaded post, but I really need help here - I am basically working on my own for one person, attempting an amount of work that would normally be divided among several CAD techs and one managing engineer. I need to be able to draft fast, without cursor lag - those seconds add up to minutes, and hours lost over time (and frustration).
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