Build Ryzen APUs vs. Skylake refurbs for limited budget?

[parallacks]

I'm in a bit of a pickle, with a side of analysis paralysis. I was researching and saving for a new buy/build for a side business, when my main and backup laptops both died. (I suspect overheating mobos.) So, I need something adequate and affordable ASAP.

Budget Range: $250-400, but up to $500-ish if it's a compelling performance increase, including S/H, tax (7.25%).

System Usage from Most to Least Important:
1- Mostly multitasking with office productivity apps 5-8+ hours a day: 1-3 Word docs; 1-3 Excel docs; Publisher; 1-5 PDFs; 1-2 wikidpad instances; Notepad++ 4-10 tabs; Firefox 4-8 tabs including 1-2 video sites or internet radio, and oritsimulator; 1-5 image gallery windows with 5-18 megapixel images; MS Paint; PhotoImpact or GIMP; calculator; iTunes; etc all at the same time. I managed this barely, if painfully, on my Thinkpad x100e (4GB RAM) before it died.

2 - light gaming, 1-3 hours a day: I still play ye ol'e Unreal Tournament '99 GOTYE, but want to try Unreal 4 and Overwatch and I don't know what else, but probably not too extreme.

3 - occasional light 3D modeling and rendering maybe 1-4 hours a week using Sweethome 3D, Art of Illusion, Blender once I learn it well enough. My old laptop rendered a low detailed archtitectural scene to 1920x1080 jpg in an hour or more, but I don't know what to expect with a newer pc. I want to try to render video walkthroughs at 1080p30.

4 - light to moderate video editing of maybe 30-60 minutes of up to 1080p30 and 720p60 h.264 mpeg-4 20+Mbps video a week. I dont know how complicated it might get, but at least cuts, joins, fades, title screens, text overlay, audio editing. But I may try chromakey and multitrack compositing. I think I know what all those terms mean. Also transcoding and cropping MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 (h.264?), et al. with Handbrake or Avidemux. Not sure what video editor to use (needs to be low cost), which may drive CPU/GPU needs, but use Audacity for audio currently.

build/buy comparisons
I'm impressed with the Ryzen desktop APU value compared to a new Coffee Lake or Kaby Lake build in this time of high GPU prices, especially with what I've read about the Meltdown vulnerability and processor-slowing patches. Although the Ryzen APUs have the BIOS update bootkit hassle that may complicate testing within the return periods. I've built PCs in the past, but the last time was 18 years ago, so I'm a bit out of date. Moreover, I've seen some deals on business refurbs/clearance with Skylake that have competitive benchmarks and total system price, which may be simpler and more cost effective.

These deals may not be there when I want to order, and PCPartPicker prices change by the hour, so the actual products can vary. Ugly parts are OK. I think the refurb systems and a lot of the components have free shipping.

$250-400 budget build/buy
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/dbrH29
$95 Ryzen 3 2200g with Vega 8 graphics
$50-60 b350 mATX or ATX mobo with video out, after rebate
$75-80 8GB DDR4 2400
$20-25 midtower case (or use my 19yr old ATX midtower?)
$20-25 PSU, 400-480w, name brand (e.g. Corsair bronze), after rebate
Free - HDD, WD10EZEX 1TB 7200 3.5 (few hours use, was offline backup)
Free - HDD, Seagate 500GB 5400 2.5, few months use
Free - DVDRW SATA, from laptop (can connect externally if/when needed)
Free - 1920x1080 monitor w/HDMI & VGA, but maybe dual and/or 4k later
$? Quiet fans, thermal compound, etc (recommendations?)
$110-130 Win10 Home 64 retail
= $370
= $260 if I try to roll with Linux, was testing Mint before they died.
(I can add other components, like an SSD and discrete GPU later as finances and evolving needs dictate.)
Plus 7.25+% tax for some resellers (e.g. Amazon)

Micro Center can be cheaper, butthe nearest is 85 mi away, $20 in gas and tolls, but I hear they offer BIOS flash for $20, which may be necessary due to their shorter return period, and they collect sales tax.

Compared to

$299 refurb HP Prodesk 800 G3 microtower, i5 6500, 4GB DDR4 2133, 500GB HDD, DVDRW, DisplayPort, 180w PSU, Win10 Pro 64, 1yr warranty
Can upgrade RAM refurb or new at half price:
$314 add 4GB (8GB total)
$362 add 2x 8GB (16GB total)
Plus 7.25% tax

Or

$500-ish better build/buy
Same as budget build, but with:
$163 Ryzen 5 2400G with Vega 11 graphics
$150 16GB DDR4 2400 (or $160 for DDR4 3000?)
= $513 with Win10 Home 64 ($403 with Linux)
(Or a Ryzen 5 1600 for $12 more + a cheap GPU for now?)

Compared to

$482 refurb HP ProDesk 600 G3, i7 6700, 16GB DDR4 2400, 500GB HDD, Radeon RX 460 2GB, DisplayPort, 250w PSU, Win10 Pro 64, 1yr warranty Plus 7.25% tax (scratch and dent condition)

Or

$503 refurb HP EliteDesk 800 G3 Small Form Factor, i7 7700, 8GB DDR4 2400, 1TB HDD, GT 730, DVDRW, 250w PSU, Win10 Pro 64
= $535 with upgrade to 16GB DDR4 2400
Plus 7.25% tax

Location: Illinois, USA

Overclocking: Maybe, but stability is more important for production. For now I'd only OC with the stock cooler.

Additional Comments: I would like a quiet PC, to focus on audio/video editing.

So, what path should I take? Anything else I should consider or that I missed? (I hope that's not too many questions in one post.)

 

[logainofhades]

Gotta love that IL sales tax. I try to avoid it as much as I can. That i7 6700 with the RX460 is going to be the top all around performer, with that RX 460, for graphics. Problem is graphics upgrades might be a problem, later. OEM's are bad about that.

A 2400g based rig would give you upgradability at least. You want fast ram with Ryzen in general, especially for the APU's. You could run Win10 unregistered for awhile, until you had the cash to get a license. You lose out on some customization options, and get an annoying watermark, but it is usable. If the bios update thing is an issue, you could go with an R5 1400.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1400 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($139.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI - B350M PRO-VD PLUS Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($60.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: Team - Vulcan 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($90.98 @ Newegg Business)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1050 2GB ACX 2.0 Video Card ($149.99 @ B&H)
Case: Cougar - MX330 ATX Mid Tower Case ($24.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: Corsair - CX (2017) 450W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($39.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $506.92
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-05-08 17:41 EDT-0400

If you fell more comfortable with getting windows now, this would work.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 3 1200 3.1GHz Quad-Core Processor ($91.50 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI - B350M PRO-VD PLUS Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($60.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: Team - Vulcan 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($90.98 @ Newegg Business)
Video Card: Asus - GeForce GT 1030 2GB Phoenix Fan OC Video Card ($89.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: Cougar - MX330 ATX Mid Tower Case ($24.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: Corsair - CX (2017) 450W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($39.99 @ Amazon)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($97.99 @ Other World Computing)
Total: $496.42
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-05-08 17:44 EDT-0400

 

[parallacks]

Thanks for the quick and detailed answer. I appreciate the parts lists. I went back and looked at mine and the prices had jumped by a lot. That's part of the fun of the hunt, but still not sure what category my use case puts me in. Would an r3 or i5 or even an i3 be adequate for processor and iGP?

Part of the pickle I'm in is looking for a new job after taking time to help a family member beat cancer. So, while the limit isn't hard, it's coming out of a fixed quantity. That being said, I want to balance my current needs against future needs.

I am a tinkerer, but also frugal. I got by on laptops by adding RAM and external peripherals. I generally take good care of my equipment and use it for many years as long as it suits my needs. So, future-proofing for me is more about having a system I that will have room for me to grow into it and expand without ditching expensive compenents (because even I struggle with Sunk Cost), as opposed to wanting or needing to have the latest and greatest.

And that's the kicker. The i7 Skylake prebuilt seems like a good fit for several years, and has 4k capability out of the box with DisplayPort on the RX 460 and the mobo (i think). If I were to sell the GPU, it might take it down to the cost of the i5 with the 16 GB RAM upgrade. But, then I may have to upgrade the PSU and fans if I want better graphics or quiet operation. Moreover, there isn't really an upgrade path for the processor (I don't know if the OEM mobo limits upgrades and overclocking unlocked CPUs), which is now already two generations old, but it may still be more than enough for the next 5 years. One possible potential plus is having Windows Pro, which I may want for reasons, plus the Skylake Prodesks have downgrade rights to Windows 7 Pro, which is what I've been using. (I don't like Win10 very much - the flat UI makes it hard to tell where one window ends and another begins, which is important for all the multitasking I do.)

On the other hand, a Ryzen APU might be adequate, but the lower priced boards lack DisplayPort and I'm not sure if they have HDMI 2.0. But, with a later upgrade to a GPU, it might then have 4K capability and with CUDA or OpenCL, it might also handle video and 3D processing. Plus, I have compatibility with new Ryzen CPUs through 2020.

The HP Business Outlet also has some low-priced AM4-based desktops, but searching suggests HP won't release a BIOS update that allows for Ryzen use. But looking at the consumer site shows they have or had an r5 1400, 8GB, 1TB, RX 550, for $550. Slickdeals shoes some past deals on refurb r7 desktops around $600. But maybe I could build that for cheaper.

The i5 skylake might be powerful enough at the price point even with upgraded RAM, but at180w, the PSU leaves little room for adding a GPU, and I don't know if Intel HD 530 would handle my needs.

All told, I'm not sure how to weight my needs and which component to prioritize. Halp!

 

[logainofhades]

Ryzen's APU's blow Intel's IGP out of the water. 4k video won't be a problem, but forget any kind of gaming, at that res, without spending significantly more. A 2400g is capable of Overwatch. The HDMI, on that GT 1030 is HDMI 2.0. The GTX 1030 is about even, if not just slightly faster with the IGP of the 2400g. The 2400g needs really fast ram to get there though.

 

[parallacks]

I've been trying to figure out RAM for Ryzens, with articles saying there's a performance penalty for 4 DIMMs without quad channel, and most mobos have only 2 DIMM slots anyway . So, if I need 16GB, I should get it as 2x8 instead of 4x4, and 2x8 is cheaper per GB at present, though prices on Ram might fall...someday, or not. But maybe 8GB is enough for light, occasional video editing on a budget. http://www.logicalincrements.com/articles/videoediting

And if I were to overclock, which I've never done, do I need faster RAM, or does overclocking make it faster too?

I like your first build choice. But, the prebuilt i7 6700 looks better after reading that Blender worked with AMD and now has an hybrid cpu/gpu renderer that can take advantage of the RX 460, being within a few dollars and including an HDD, 8GB more RAM, DisplayPort, and Windows license. But it's harder to judge a comparison after the Meltdown patch tax. I'm not sure how much my workload will be affected by Meltdown, even after reading this. https://www.pcworld.com/article/3250645/laptop-computers/how-meltdown-and-spectre-patches-drag-down-older-hardware.html But I may not notice it, considering my noteboks scored 680 and 720 by Passmark. Looking closer, the prebuilt looks tight and I worry about airflow. I also realized it's 1x16 DDR4 (not sure if it's 2133 or 2400) and wonder how that affects speed if it's not running in dual channel mode (It's a Q270 according to specs).

 

[logainofhades]

For ryzen, you want 2x8gb with a minimum speed of ddr4 3000.