Build Advice Building a new gaming computer ?

jeffgo

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Howdy all!
So, I'm helping my father build a new gaming computer and was looking for some advice. The budget is $1800 USD. He is mostly playing Racing, Space Sim and turn based games. He and I have talked a bit about it, but I was hoping to get some advice as I'm not up to date with the newest hardware that's out. (I've built my own computers before, so we'll be buying the parts separately and I'll be assembling it).

Specs:
Case: Height should be no more then 20" and width should be no wider then 8".
Motherboard: Needs USBC and bluetooth natively, as well as x2 PCIE slots. If it can also do 7 channel sound, that'd be great, otherwise, a recommendation for a sound card that can do it would be appreciated.
CPU: i7 or i9. He wasn't very picky on this, but no lower then i7
GPU: 4060 or 4060ti or equivalent. He is a fan of NVidia, but he isn't SUPER picky. As long as it's at that general level.
Memory: 32GBs. Again, he's not very particular on this, so whichever you recommend.
Drives: One 1 TB M.2 and One 3TB SSD
Power Supply: He has no preference at all, so whatever you'd recommend
Cooling/Fans: He likes water cooling, but if there's something better that is recommended, it's not required.
Monitor: He'd like a 27-30" monitor. It'll need to have a fairly high refresh rate/response time and preferably 4k.

If it's really impossible to get all that within the budget, he is willing to go up to $2200, but would prefer under $1800 if possible. (Also, if the numbers seems odd, it's because we live in Canada, so it's $2500-$3000 CAD)

He's only planning on buying the parts on July 7th, so there's time to work things out.
If there's any questions you have, please don't hesitate to ask.
Thank you in advance for taking the time to read/help!
Jeff
 

35below0

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It'll need to have a fairly high refresh rate/response time and preferably 4k.
High refresh rate for gaming? or 4K?
Because there isn't a GPU in the world that will NOT struggle at 4K.

1440p 166Hz is farily easy to achieve and within your budget. But 4K at anything other than 60Hz is going to require a mortgauge.

I would suggest targetting a 1440p monitor because they're easier on the wallet and the rest of the computer doesn't need to work so hard to drive all those pixels at 1440p. 4K is... orders of magnitude harder and more expensive.
 
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35below0

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WIFI a, b, g, n, ac, ax, supporting 2.4/5/6 GHz carrier frequency bands BLUETOOTH 5.3 Support for 11ax 160MHz wireless standard and up to 2.4 Gbps data rate (Actual data rate may vary depending on environment and equipment.)
7.1 CH HD Audio (Realtek ALC897 Audio Codec) not the best codec but up to the job.
cpu:
- 1 x PCIe 5.0 x16 Slot (PCIE1), supports x16 mode
Chipset:
- 1 x PCIe 4.0 x16 Slot (PCIE4), supports x4 mode
- 2 x PCIe 3.0 x1 Slots (PCIE2 and PCIE3)

I don't see why the CPU should be no lower than an i7 because the performance of the i5 K model (and even non-Ks) is more than sufficient.
You're free to overrule my suggestion, of course.

Maybe in the past an i7 was more desirable, but the 12/13/14th generation intels are all good. Even the slower 12th gen CPUs. I think a good compromise is the 13400, but i have selected the 13600K with more cores.

An i5 13600K more or less trounces an i9 12900K, so that's another reason to choose it. Just relying on the iNumber is not enough as you can see.

There is a gap between 12th gen and 13/14th gen. 14th being just a refresh of the 13th. Accordingly, 12th gen CPUs are considerably cheaper.
They all fit into the same LGA1700 socket.


Water cooling takes up less space on the motherboard but distributes itself around the case. So it's a little more clean and tidy but not so much.
Liquid cooling also does not outperform a good air cooler except for the very, very best liquid coolers. Another nitpick is the pump longevity. They will not generally last longer than 5 years but that may be ok with you.
Because it's cheaper and no lesser performance-wise, i've selected an air cooler. but it's your decision.

There are no 3Tb NVMe drives, so i've selected a 4Tb model. You can drop this down to a 2Tb model, or opt for a Toshiba P300 HDD. Mass storage doesn't need speed, and with an OS running on an NVMe a HDD will feel considerably faster anyway.
It's still S.L.O.W. compared to an SSD.

Fractal's North is not too tall but it's width is 8.464567"
Montech is 9.055118"
<8" is a very difficult limit. Other cases i'd recommend are wider. Probably because of case ventilation.
I've selected the North. It's worth it's higher asking price, as long as you actually like it. Other, cheaper but good choices are Montech AIR 903 BASE and NZXT H5 Flow
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/rBTZxr/montech-air-903-base-atx-mid-tower-case-air-903-base-w

Now, without a monitor, i've already managed to cross your extended budget limit.
When it comes to monitors, 32" is great and huge, and well freaking huge. Can be both a pro and a con.
27" is almost certainly the sweet spot. 32" is nicer for watching a movie but not that much nicer. For gaming, i'd go with 27".


Here is the PcPartPicker build. The final price depends on whether you decide against the 3Tb HDD or 4Tb NVMe drive, and to a lesser extent the PC case you choose.
A cheaper CPU is also possible. The motherboard does support 12/13/14 gen CPUs and it can run all of them, though i would not overclock an i9 on it.
Are you open to the idea of upgrading in the next 1-2 years to an 14700K CPU? I expect it's price will be much more agreeable than it is today. That is only IF your father feels the need to upgrade the CPU.
one other savings is the CPU cooler. The Fuma 3 is excellent, reliable and quiet. The Peerless Assassin is cheaper: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product...-argb-6617-cfm-cpu-cooler-pa120-se-white-argb
It's a good cooler, just be careful with RAM clearance.

If your father has a non-OEM Win 10 license, he can re-use it as long as he unlicenses his current PC. So that's little more money saved.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-13600K 3.5 GHz 14-Core Processor ($336.96 @ shopRBC)
CPU Cooler: Scythe Fuma 3 67.62 CFM CPU Cooler ($73.56 @ Amazon Canada)
Motherboard: ASRock Z790 Lightning WiFi ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($244.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws S5 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6000 CL30 Memory ($139.99 @ Canada Computers)
Storage: TEAMGROUP MP44L 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($89.96 @ Canada Computers)
Storage: TEAMGROUP MP44 4 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($315.99 @ Amazon Canada)
Storage: Toshiba P300 3 TB 3.5" 7200 RPM Internal Hard Drive ($178.93 @ Amazon Canada)
Video Card: PNY XLR8 Gaming VERTO EPIC-X RGB GeForce RTX 4060 8 GB Video Card ($399.99 @ Best Buy Canada)
Case: Fractal Design North ATX Mid Tower Case ($169.99 @ Canada Computers)
Power Supply: be quiet! Pure Power 12 M 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($109.46 @ Amazon Canada)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 11 Home Retail - USB 64-bit ($172.99 @ PC-Canada)
Monitor: Gigabyte GS27QC 27.0" 2560 x 1440 170 Hz Curved Monitor ($249.99 @ Canada Computers)
Total: $2482.80
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-06-30 16:01 EDT-0400


Happy building. I think i've given you some ideas and a heads-up or two. As always, read reviews. make sure the stuff is actually good.
I've tried to suggest a build that can handle racing sims at 1440p at a decent refresh rate. But it could be tweaked further.

EDIT - I've found an alternative motherboard, the Gigabyte B760 Aorus Elite AX:
https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/B760-AORUS-ELITE-AX-rev-1x#kf
It's cheaper but has 2 full length PCI slots in addition to the GPU PCIe x16 slot. Also has bluetooth and 7.1.
It's as good as the Lightning imo.

Also, you could choose a DDR4 motherboard. DDR4 is cheaper and while it has lower speed, it also has lower latency. But mostly it's cheaper and works just as well as DDR5.
This motherboard is more expensive, but it's the best one of the ones i listed. The RAM is cheaper and overall they cost less than the DDR5 variants above:
https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/Z790-AORUS-ELITE-AX-DDR4-rev-1x/sp#sp

With a 1Tb + 2Tb NVMe drive setup, DDR4 motherboard and RAM, and assuming the Win 10 license can be carried over, the final price would be $1935.82
 
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PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: *AMD Ryzen 5 7600 3.8 GHz 6-Core Processor ($245.17 @ Amazon Canada)
CPU Cooler: *Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE ARGB 66.17 CFM CPU Cooler ($46.90 @ Amazon Canada)
Motherboard: *MSI PRO B650-S WIFI ATX AM5 Motherboard ($199.99 @ Best Buy Canada)
Memory: *G.Skill Flare X5 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6000 CL30 Memory ($144.97 @ Newegg Canada)
Storage: *TEAMGROUP MP44L 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($154.97 @ Newegg Canada)
Video Card: *Gigabyte WINDFORCE OC GeForce RTX 4070 Ti SUPER 16 GB Video Card ($1099.99 @ Memory Express)
Case: *Phanteks XT PRO ULTRA ATX Mid Tower Case ($109.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Power Supply: *MSI MAG A850GL PCIE5 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($129.97 @ Amazon Canada)
Monitor: *Samsung Odyssey G50A 32.0" 2560 x 1440 165 Hz Monitor ($299.99 @ Canada Computers)
Total: $2431.93
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
*Lowest price parts chosen from parametric criteria
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-06-30 18:24 EDT-0400
 
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PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i7-13700K 3.4 GHz 16-Core Processor ($449.00 @ Amazon Canada)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Aqua Elite V3 66.17 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($59.90 @ Amazon Canada)
Motherboard: MSI MAG Z790 TOMAHAWK WIFI ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($261.19 @ Amazon Canada)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws S5 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6000 CL30 Memory ($139.99 @ Canada Computers)
Storage: SK Hynix Platinum P41 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($207.90 @ Amazon Canada)
Storage: Crucial P3 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($158.50 @ Vuugo)
Video Card: PNY VERTO OC GeForce RTX 4070 SUPER 12 GB Video Card ($784.99 @ Amazon Canada)
Case: Montech AIR 903 BASE ATX Mid Tower Case ($94.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Power Supply: MSI MAG A850GL PCIE5 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($129.97 @ Amazon Canada)
Monitor: ViewSonic OMNI VX2728J-2K 27.0" 2560 x 1440 180 Hz Monitor ($249.99 @ Canada Computers)
Total: $2536.42
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-06-30 19:18 EDT-0400


Some notes:
  • 4k high refresh screens are going to cost at least double and need a much higher end video card to run decently
  • you don't say why you need multiple PCIe slots and this can be very important
  • there aren't any 3TB SSD options so that's why there are 2x 2TB drives here
  • an i7 is absolutely not needed and an i5 will easily work, but kept the i7 due to request
  • AMD is a good choice here, and for sim type games an X3D part can be especially beneficial
  • you're not going to find a worthwhile case the width requested
For video card the 4060 lines are a pretty poor deal overall and most certainly is an awful choice for anything but 1080p gaming. Here's the logic I used based on pricing I saw for which card was picked:
Code:
4070 super
$770-800
1440p performance: 118.4
4k performance: 67.2

4070 Ti
$900 - 12.5% over 4070 Super
1440p performance: 128.2 vs 4070 Super +8.28%
4k performance: 72.8 vs 4070 Super +8.33%

4070 Ti Super
$1059-1100 - 37.5% over 4070 Super
1440p performance: 135.8 vs 4070 Super +14.7%
4k performance: 79.7 vs 4070 Super +18.6%

4080 Super
$1330-1370 - 71.25% over 4070 Super
1440p performance: 155.8 vs 4070 Super +31.6%
4k performance: 93.7 vs 4070 Super +39.43%
 
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35below0

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For video card the 4060 lines are a pretty poor deal overall and most certainly is an awful choice for anything but 1080p gaming.
I do agree it's not really good enough. A 7800XT or 7900GRE would be the ideal choice. But the 4060 can work for racing sims as long as some graphical details are lowered. Mainly shadows or AA. While those are nice, they are less relevant in split second decision making games. But, ultimately it was the budget that decided the GPU. Very difficult to fit a GPU better than the 4060 while keeping the cost below $2000 or $2200.

For turn based games, the 4060 is much less at a disadvantage.

It would help if we knew more about the exact games the computer should run. Some sims require more CPU power. "Space games" could mean anything. TBS generally aren't most demanding.


Ok, this build just about squeezes into a $2200 budget. The CPU is a little weaker, but it should not be underestimated. Check reviews and performance because as i've mentioned previously, a 13600K is faster than an i9 12900K. The 13500 is in some instances preferable to the 13600K. The hybrid-era Intels (12,13,14th gen) do not automaticaly provide a benefit to an unlocked CPU.
The door is still open to a i7 14700K down the road.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-13500 2.5 GHz 14-Core Processor ($319.99 @ Newegg Canada)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE WHITE ARGB 66.17 CFM CPU Cooler ($41.90 @ Amazon Canada)
Motherboard: Gigabyte Z790 AORUS ELITE AX DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($269.99 @ Amazon Canada)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory ($80.95 @ Amazon Canada)
Storage: TEAMGROUP MP44L 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($89.96 @ Canada Computers)
Storage: TEAMGROUP MP44L 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($154.97 @ Newegg Canada)
Video Card: Gigabyte GAMING OC Radeon RX 7900 GRE 16 GB Video Card ($749.00 @ Canada Computers)
Case: Montech AIR 903 BASE ATX Mid Tower Case ($94.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS GX-750 ATX 3.0 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($140.25 @ Vuugo)
Monitor: Gigabyte GS27QC 27.0" 2560 x 1440 170 Hz Curved Monitor ($249.99 @ Canada Computers)
Total: $2191.99
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-07-01 07:06 EDT-0400


Edit - replaced the PSU with a 750 SeaSonic ATX 3.0 model
 
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jeffgo

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Thank you all for replies! I sent them to my father and he's going to look at them when he has some free time.
Great advice all around honestly. I'll reply once he has had a chance to look at them

But to help out with some of the questions:

Aside from 4x games, he is likely to play games like Star Citizen, Star Wars Squadrons, the Forza racing series, Dyson Sphere Project.
Essentially, fast paced racing games and Dog fighting space simulators.

As for things about specific parts, I believe he will be flexible. So, don't feel the need to stick to the 4060 simply because I mentioned it. If there are better alternatives (that can stay in budget), then feel free to change them.

As for the budget, if there is a significant improvement, he mentioned being willing to bump it up to $3000.

The case is one of those odd ones... he said he'll need to measure to make 100% sure. I'll ask him to see if there's somewhere else he can put it.

He also mentioned wanting x2 PCIE slots for future upgrade possibilities. I'm not 100% sure why, but it's something he wants.

Again, thank you all for taking the time to reply. I appreciate the advice!
 
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jeffgo

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Alright, I spoke with my father and he replied. Here were my questions and what he had to say:


What specific games do you plan on playing?

- Sim racing (Forza4/5, Assetto Corsa, Hot Wheels Unleashed 2, others), Space Sims (Star Wars Squadrons, Star Citizen, Everspace, X4), Grand Strategy (Stellaris, Civ, Europa), Builders (Dyson Sphere, Satisfactory, Skylines)

Does it need to be 8" wide or can you put it somewhere else? (They said 8" for what you want will be a bit tricky)

I probably could if I had to. How wide are we talking?

Is there a reason it needs x2 PCIE slots?

Well, one for the GPU, and one for anything else I might choose to add. Right now I have an M.2 extension card that needs that slot and I don't have it. Truthfully, I haven't missed it all these years that I had the current machine, so maybe I could give that up.

Are you set on getting a 4060/4060ti or, if they have a better option, would you be willing to try another GPU?

For sure. But I want something that will give me at least 3-4 years of good fun before I need to upgrade. 5 years would be better.

Do you need an i7 CPU? (A lot of people say the newest gen i5 is plenty good)

No. I am quite happy using an i5


Lastly, from reading through the suggestions, it seems most of them agree that for a proper gaming PC, $2400 might be a bit low and you might need to go up to $3000. Mostly because video cards are crazy expensive right now.


If that's what has to be done, then that's it. Let's build the right machine as long as we are doing it, eh?

Feel free to ask me other questions/concerns and I can relay them.

Thanks once again
 
I probably could if I had to. How wide are we talking?
most current cases that aren't a dual chamber design are generally around 230mm/9"
Well, one for the GPU, and one for anything else I might choose to add. Right now I have an M.2 extension card that needs that slot and I don't have it. Truthfully, I haven't missed it all these years that I had the current machine, so maybe I could give that up.
The primary reason for asking this is that client platforms are very limited in PCIe and most less expensive motherboards only have one slot from the CPU lanes. If you needed more bandwidth for whatever reason then that would change which board, and if you needed bifurcation for more storage or the like would mean switching to AMD. I don't think this will be a sticking point for the build.
For sure. But I want something that will give me at least 3-4 years of good fun before I need to upgrade. 5 years would be better.
The 4k monitor question is the big one for answering this because if set on 4k then should probably be looking at a video card with 16GB VRAM just for longevity sake. With 1440p a 12GB card should be plenty then it just becomes what level of performance for the money is wanted.
 

35below0

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He also mentioned wanting x2 PCIE slots for future upgrade possibilities. I'm not 100% sure why, but it's something he wants.
PCIe slots can be full length or very short.


- Does it need to be 8" wide or can you put it somewhere else? (They said 8" for what you want will be a bit tricky)
- I probably could if I had to. How wide are we talking?
~9"
Basically a case is likely to be between 215 and 240 mm. Definetly more than 8" but not a hell of a lot more.
The Fractal Design North is one of the slimmest. Costs a little bit more but it's got enough space to work in, good ventilation. It looks odd, but if that's not a problem i would recommend it.


As for the PCIe slots, most motherboards will have at least one extra slot besides the GPU. And they will have a few M.2 slots for NVMe drives.
The Aorus Elite AX DDR4 motherboard i recommended has 4 M.2 slots for NVMe drives (one of which supports M.2 SATA drives), and 3 full length x16 PCIe slots. One is PCIe 5.0, the others 4.0 and 3.0

It also has the Bluetooth, WiFi and 7.1 audio features so overall it ticks all the boxes. It does cost more but what's $30-40 if compromises will have to be made.
Full specs: https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/Z790-AORUS-ELITE-AX-DDR4-rev-1x/sp#sp

For sure. But I want something that will give me at least 3-4 years of good fun before I need to upgrade. 5 years would be better.
The Radeon RX 7900GRE is king and queen of 1440p gaming. There are faster GPUs but they cost more.
If your father is willing to part with roughly $1100 for a Nvidia RTX 4070 Ti Super GPU, he will get a higher level of performance, and it will last longer.

However, we are some 4-6 months away from the launch of many new GPUs from Intel, AMD and Nvidia. The Nvidia's in particular are expected to be a great improvement on the current 40XX series.
The 5070 will probably blow away what the 4070 Ti Super can deliver, and do it for less money and less power.

Buying a cheap RTX 4060 helps save some money towards a more meaningful purchase in the near future. One that will last 3-5 years or even longer.
On the other hand, buying a RX 7900GRE delivers right now and will not become gutless for another 3 years. Possibly longer.

It's normally best to buy right now but we are very close to the next gen launching. So waiting is an option.


No. I am quite happy using an i5
Perhaps this can convince you further that just looking at the number after the "i" is not enough:

Passmark benchmark - single thread performance (most relevant for gaming)

13500 - 3890 pts $320
13600K - 4148 $337
13700K - 4363 $450
12900K - 4348 $410
11900K - 3511 $522
10900K - 3135 $700

i3 12100 - 3481 :oops: $150

As you can see, the newer generation CPUs are improved in performance so much, they can outclass the higher tier CPUs from the previous generation.
In the multithreaded performance, the higher tier CPUs like the i7 and i9 still have some fight left in them because of higher core counts and more threads. But it's the single thread performance that is most relevant for gaming, as games very rarely take advantage of extra threads and cores.

If that's what has to be done, then that's it. Let's build the right machine as long as we are doing it, eh?
Good attitude but it doesn't have to be crazy expensive to be good. Your budget was pretty close (except for 4K gaming)

This build costs ~$2500
Maybe a more expensive monitor or an extra $250 for the RTX 4070 Ti Super would be a good way to spend up to $3000.
A power supply that would last a decade and efficiently handle pretty much anything ($245):
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product...d-fully-modular-atx-power-supply-sf-1300f14xg
Or drop the CPU down to an i5 13600K and save $110. The i7 doesn't exactly improve things that much for it's price.


PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i7-13700K 3.4 GHz 16-Core Processor ($449.99 @ Best Buy Canada)
CPU Cooler: Scythe Fuma 3 67.62 CFM CPU Cooler ($73.56 @ Amazon Canada)
Motherboard: Gigabyte Z790 AORUS ELITE AX DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($344.99 @ Amazon Canada)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory ($80.95 @ Amazon Canada)
Storage: TEAMGROUP MP44L 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($89.96 @ Canada Computers)
Storage: TEAMGROUP MP44L 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($154.97 @ Newegg Canada)
Video Card: Gigabyte GAMING OC Radeon RX 7900 GRE 16 GB Video Card ($749.00 @ Canada Computers)
Case: Fractal Design North ATX Mid Tower Case ($169.99 @ Canada Computers)
Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS GX-750 ATX 3.0 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($140.25 @ Vuugo)
Monitor: Gigabyte GS27QC 27.0" 2560 x 1440 170 Hz Curved Monitor ($249.99 @ Canada Computers)
Total: $2503.65
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-07-01 18:13 EDT-0400
 
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