But I don't wanna build another one (whine alert)

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So which way to go?

  • HP a1740n

    Votes: 2 15.4%

  • Dell

    Votes: 1 7.7%

  • Gateway 1

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Gateway 2

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Have you thought about getting an abacus, you loser?

    Votes: 10 76.9%
  • Total voters
    13
T

Trewintent

Distinguished
Nov 24, 2006
17
0
18,510
Ok, apologies. First this is really a boarderline CE question, but since it's not brand specific there was nowhere to put it. May I suggest a CE Systems, General, category?
Second, the whine alert- what is wrong with all these manufactures... everything is almost what I want, but adding $300 of parts always seems to translate to at least $700 increase in retail price because x or y is only available on certain models.
Goal- a reasonably powerful desktop capable of mild-enthusiast gaming, able to run new titles and to let me play with the hard-core types, even if only to see my blood spill.
Problem- no manufacture includes a power supply big enough to run a decent graphics card. I have a 450 watt supply from my old system or can install a new one if necessary but don't know what will fit in a new machine
Options: Best I've found so far
HP a1740n $965 including tax this would work if there's a decent video card to toss into it without upgrading the power supply. It's certainly the price i was looking for
Intel®
Core 2 Duo 6300
1.9GHz
Bus Speed
1066MHz
2MB Level 2 cache
2GB RAM
Memory Type (RAM)
533MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-4200)
320GB
Hard Drive Speed
7200RPM
Burns DVDs Yes
Lightscribe Yes
3 Available PCI Slots
Video memory: 224MB
Video Memory Type😛artially Shared
Windows® Vista Home Premium

I believe this has a 300watt power supply. Haven't been able to locate the HP part number to be certain.

DELL $1139
Intel® Core™2 Duo Processor E6300 (2MB L2 Cache,1.86GHz,1066 FSB)
Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium
2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz - 2 DIMMs
250GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
Dual Drives: 48x Combo + 16x DVD+/-RW w/ dbl layer write capable
256MB nVidia GeForce 7900 GS
Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
ell USB Keyboard
Windows Vista™ Premium
350 watt power supply

Gateway $1675 more than i want to pay. and in an odd twist, gateway is putting in more of a power supply than necessary
Processor Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor E6300 (1.86GHz, 1066MHz FSB, 2MB cache, non-HT)
Operating System Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium (32-bit)
Customized Memory 2048MB 667MHz PC5300 Dual-Channel DDR2 SDRAM (2-1024MB modules) [$150.00]
Customized Hard Drive 250GB 7200rpm Serial ATA II/300 hard drive w/ 8MB cache [$29.00]
Optical Drive 16x Double-Layer Multi-Format DVD Writer DVD±/R±RW/CD-R/RW
Customized Video NVIDIA® GeForce® 7950GT 512MB GDDR3 Dual DVI - Dual Link w/HDCP & TV-Out [$222.00]
Media Card Reader 9-in-1 Memory Card Reader
Keyboard Gateway® Elite Multimedia Keyboard
Modem 56K PCI data/fax modem
Motherboard Intel® 975X Chipset with DDR2 and Intel® Core™ Duo support

Gateway#2 $1,262.99 256 meg video card $170? ouch. also this a uatx baby case.
Processor Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor E6300 (1.86GHz, 1066MHz FSB, 2MB cache, non-HT)
Operating System Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium (32-bit)
Customized Memory 2048MB 667MHz PC5300 Dual-Channel DDR2 SDRAM (2-1024MB modules) [$150.00]
Customized Hard Drive 250GB 7200rpm Serial ATA II/300 hard drive w/ 8MB cache [$29.00]
Optical Drive 16x Double-Layer Multi-Format DVD±/R±RW/CD-R/RW recorder
Customized Monitor No 22" LCD Monitor Selected [$-210.00]
Motherboard Systemboard with Intel® G965 Chipset & 10/100 network
Customized Mouse No Mouse Selected [$-15.00]
Operating System Backup Media Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium Media (32-bit)
Power Supply 400-Watt Power Supply
Security Software No McAfee® Security Subscription Selected (for Genuine Windows® Vista™)
Software Documentation End User License Agreement for Non-Microsoft Software
Customized Video NVIDIA® GeForce® 7600GS 256MB Dual DVI - Dual Link w/ HDCP & TV-Out [$140.00]

Thoughts, opinions, platitudes or belittling?
 
If you don't like your choices with the major OEM's you could have a retailer build you a custom PC. You pick the parts, they assemble it and warranty it.

PS. I don't like any of those OEM choices.
 
Since Dells are not exactly for OCing, you could try and go for an AMD build. They have a 25% off coupon for their AMD Dimension if the initial price is over $1000.

The X2 5600+ is like the FX-62 with a locked multiplier. CPU-wise, it'll be a better bet.

Going with that route and you can plug in that 450w power supply and you could get a pretty good video card at a low price. NewEgg has a pretty cheap 7800GT recertified to tide you over for cheaper DX10 cards, if you want.
 
Try a smaller enthusiast shop like ibuypower or cyberpower.

They cater more to gamers and offer a much largeer selection of components, usually for less money than the bigger manufacturers, and you can still get warrentes and tech service through them if those things are important to you.

The best way to get exactly what you want is always to build it yourself though, but if you prefer a pre-built system the 2 companies I mentioned offer some nice packages and lots of room to customize for a reasonable price.
 
I'm a fan of barebones builds, but you don't seem to want to go that budget route (see my signature for the budget build I put together a week or so ago). When getting a name brand PC, the proprietary aspects are the problem. With Dells, you often need their drivers and can't use the latest drivers for your new graphics card upgrade. That's not true with every manufacturer, but check to make sure.

Okay, the route from all your choices is get the one you like the most and then just pay extra for that 450 watt power supply. Of course, you'll have to pay more for better graphics, more RAM etc. down the line, if possible without a motherboard upgrade.

That can happen with a barebones too. My motherboard only accepts 2 gigs of RAM and I'll have to switch it out when I need 4 gigs in the future when 64 bit Vista's needed, so check to see if your system's maxed out in RAM. I also didn't want to use the onboard 6100 graphics, so I got a PCIe GPU instead.

The advantage of having a small reputable computer shop build it custom for you, or to get a barebones where the motherboard is already in and all you have to do is install the CPU, memory, hard drives, graphics card and OS is that you get what you wanted. The only brand name cost is the components inside, not the hyped name on the outside. The disadvantage is that the new PC may take more tweaking than an out of the box name brand solution. Yet, when it's tweaked, it will work much better for a longer period of time than the usual HP, Dell, Gateway, Compaq, Lenovo or E-Machines.

Since you're mainly worried about the power supply and are set on getting one off your list, then just pay for that upgrade. It will be overpriced, but one overpriced component doesn't break the bank.
 
I built my last machine three years ago, and it served well until recently without needing any major upgrades. What was supposed to be a relatively minor upgrade lead to its demise (um, yeah.. wristraps are a good thing) and the realization that I just don't have the time to sort out what will work with what, then the building, and then all the tweaking that goes into a build... I enjoyed staying on top of it when I had more time, but now I really just want it to work. I got the hp laptop I'm composing this on for work last year and it's had no issues, so that's the only reason I looked at HP at all- a year or so ago I wouldn't have considered them at all, and I'm certainly not married to any of the big brands mentions, they were tossed out only as the best options I'd found so far. I'm definitely going to look into the smaller companies someone else mentioned.
 
Thanks, I'll definitely check them out. This might really be the best solution, and it hadn't even come to mind. Not really aware of the players in this category, so again, thanks.
 
I'm an hour north of new york city. But I'm very close to putting together what I want with either cyberpowerpc.com or ibuypower.com
there seems to be a little sillyness... system comes with a raidmax case, but they reccomend a nzxt power supply (like that isn't bein25g pulled out of a case) and $19 for professional wiring? I thought you were professionals...
now the big question do I go for 2 gigs of ram or a 512mb video card instead of a 256.
I really appreciate all the input
 
I built my last machine three years ago, and it served well until recently without needing any major upgrades. What was supposed to be a relatively minor upgrade lead to its demise (um, yeah.. wristraps are a good thing)
Click to expand...

Two years ago, I was putting a 160 gig IDE hard drive into my son's PC. I didn't use wrist straps, but usually unplug it and then touch the case. He was 4 years old and he snuck up on me and turned on the power. The hard drive fried, the motherboard burned, the usual mishegoss.

Now he's 6 and he respects PCs more. Still, I don't work on any of our PCs while he's awake. Since I work low level IT second shift, he's asleep while I can work on things overnight.

I'd recommend 2 gigs of RAM. 512 megs on a graphics card is only useful in certain situations, and you'll need 2 gigs for Vista. As far as it goes, 2 gigs works for XP too. I'm getting a second gig of Kingston Value RAM in this PC come payday on March 1st. Building it with one stick was a budget consideration.

My old (now second) Northwood PC has 2 gigs and it made a difference. Since it was DDR, I couldn't transfer any to the new box, and it also has a cheap Raidmax case, but I switched out the power supply from the stock 350 to a 450 watt Cooler Master Realpower with 22 amps on the 12 volt rail. That power supply will stay with that PC and it will allow me to upgrade the graphics card one last time from a Radeon 9800 Pro to either an X1650 XT AGP or X1950 Pro AGP, but it will probably be CPU limited with only a 2.8, I can't see putting a faster processor in. I'd rather use the money for another dual core build next fall.

I'm switching out the 400 watt Apex power supply with 29 amps on the 12 volt rail in my MSI barebones for a Seasonic 500 watt with 35 amps on April 1st. Then, I'll be ready to get a DX10 graphics card in May. I was going to go 8600 Ultra, but I don't like Purevideo's cost, so I"ll go X2800 for Avivo instead. I just got the cheapest 12 shader card I could get that would work until the DX10 choices arrived.

You do have to be careful about OEM power supplies. One local store where I recommended a friend have his built, has Ultra power supplies, but they're practically being given away with rebates at Fry's and Tiger Direct. So, I recommended he get the Thermaltake instead.

Good parts cost more, but IMHO most people skimp on the power supply when they spend too much on the motherboard or graphics card. Never skimp on the power supply.

I love this barebones. The only drawback is that it only accepts 2 gigs of RAM. The Nvidia 405 chipset's okay as is the X2 3800+. One of these years, it will get a bios flash and the cheapest, slowest quad core AM2+ available. Yet, I never skimp on the power supply, except in the first couple of months I have a barebones up and running.
 
I had a look recently at how to build a reasonable gaming and all-purpose rig for my bro'. Considering those facts, I decided to get:
- a quality brand mobo but without all bells and whistles
- a cheap CPU that can overclock sweetly
- loads of RAM
- a reasonable graphics card, 7600 GT or similar
- a silent 450W PSU

I ended up picking an AM2 Sempron (the 2800+) on an Asus ATX mobo, coupled with a good HS+Fan: it overclocks on air without voltmod to around 2.5 GHz (enough for most games) and mobo+CPU+HSF cost less than 200 bucks; with those AM2 Semprons allowing Cool'n'Quiet, power drain goes down when you don't need all its horsepower (good for PSU longevity).

Of course you could also get a C2D 4300 - much more bang for sure, but it adds +- 150 bucks to the bill.

You can find 7600 GTs with passive cooling; I don't think a passive cooled 8600 will be long in coming either. 160 bucks.
A nice system in my book is a silent system. Same for the PSU (with a 12cm, adaptive RPM fan). Akasa AK-P050FG7-BK is around 80; I have a similar model, you don't hear it.

A lot of fast RAM, well timed, with such a system, will make it fast and supple. It costs though: 2x1 Gb of DDR2-800 will set you back around 300.
Throw in a good SATA HD, you have a worthwile, silent gaming machine for around 800 bucks.
 
Sorry to bump this thread...I was planning on building a new rig at the beginning of this year as well, but I simply do not have enough time anymore mostly thanks to my damn job. I hate using brand name computers for the reasons everyone already listed here, but I think I chose the lesser evil. Dell has had a promotion on Dimension systems (all you had to do was search for the coupon online) for the last 3 weeks of Februray that is supposed to end today where you get 25% off.

I picked up a somewhat acceptable machine for $810 after taxes with their promotion....

CORE 2 DUO E6300 1.86GHZ
2GB PC2-4200 (533MHZ) DDR2 SDRAM
250GB SATA II HD (7200 RPM)
16X DVD ROM & 16X DVD+/-RW
13 IN 1 CARD MEDIA READER

They forced you to price the machine to at least $999 in order to take advantage of the "deal" (which explains the extra DVD-ROM drive) so depending on how much your tax is, you can end up with a decent machine + Vista for 800 bucks.

Of course, its got a horrible onboard video card (Intel GMA X3000) and a weak psu of only 305 watts, so I will end up dropping another $150 or so in the hole in order to remedy those problems. By the way...I did some browsing, and spotted a 7600GT for $100 shipped, so my $150 figure is pretty reasonable.

Before I bought the Dell, I priced out similar configuration for a custom built machine + Vista, and I'd have saved maybe $200, and that right there would have been the new video card and psu. That would have been nice, and I'd have gladly saved the extra $200, but I just didn't have the time.

Trewintent, if you are in a similar situation, I think you'll see that I did an okay job here.
 
I'd like to thank everyone for their input, and following the group consensus I've decided to go with a standard model as the as the Lee Kai-chen version has more power than I need.
tnda.jpg

Try it yourself!

Actually, I've been really disheartend by the way everyone seems to be putting together almost enough, and am on the verge of trying to put my old one back together... I just solved a major disk deliema and am overcoming how frustrated I am with fixing several things that were apparently not the problem, but life isn't allowing me time to tinker. Anyway, I just found PCworld's review of the Micro Express MicroFlex 66B and from what I've seen, with a little tweaking it's the closest to what I want for an even grand. So if I do go new, that's probably where I'm headed.
Seriously, thanks one and all for your sage advice.
 
if you have done all that research about those systems and you can capible of pluging in a GPU i think you could handle a barebones build with no problem. If all goes well you could be playing games on that computer in about 1 1/2 hours.
 
I'm an hour north of new york city. But I'm very close to putting together what I want with either cyberpowerpc.com or ibuypower.com
there seems to be a little sillyness... system comes with a raidmax case, but they reccomend a nzxt power supply (like that isn't bein25g pulled out of a case) and $19 for professional wiring? I thought you were professionals...
now the big question do I go for 2 gigs of ram or a 512mb video card instead of a 256.
I really appreciate all the input
Click to expand...
Yo Westchesta! TZ Bridge...Sing Sing....lol

forgot Rye Playland 8)
 
Ok, apologies. First this is really a boarderline CE question, but since it's not brand specific there was nowhere to put it. May I suggest a CE Systems, General, category?
Second, the whine alert- what is wrong with all these manufactures... everything is almost what I want, but adding $300 of parts always seems to translate to at least $700 increase in retail price because x or y is only available on certain models.
Goal- a reasonably powerful desktop capable of mild-enthusiast gaming, able to run new titles and to let me play with the hard-core types, even if only to see my blood spill.
Problem- no manufacture includes a power supply big enough to run a decent graphics card. I have a 450 watt supply from my old system or can install a new one if necessary but don't know what will fit in a new machine
Options: Best I've found so far
HP a1740n $965 including tax this would work if there's a decent video card to toss into it without upgrading the power supply. It's certainly the price i was looking for
Intel®
Core 2 Duo 6300
1.9GHz
Bus Speed
1066MHz
2MB Level 2 cache
2GB RAM
Memory Type (RAM)
533MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-4200)
320GB
Hard Drive Speed
7200RPM
Burns DVDs Yes
Lightscribe Yes
3 Available PCI Slots
Video memory: 224MB
Video Memory Type😛artially Shared
Windows® Vista Home Premium

I believe this has a 300watt power supply. Haven't been able to locate the HP part number to be certain.

DELL $1139
Intel® Core™2 Duo Processor E6300 (2MB L2 Cache,1.86GHz,1066 FSB)
Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium
2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz - 2 DIMMs
250GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
Dual Drives: 48x Combo + 16x DVD+/-RW w/ dbl layer write capable
256MB nVidia GeForce 7900 GS
Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
ell USB Keyboard
Windows Vista™ Premium
350 watt power supply

Gateway $1675 more than i want to pay. and in an odd twist, gateway is putting in more of a power supply than necessary
Processor Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor E6300 (1.86GHz, 1066MHz FSB, 2MB cache, non-HT)
Operating System Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium (32-bit)
Customized Memory 2048MB 667MHz PC5300 Dual-Channel DDR2 SDRAM (2-1024MB modules) [$150.00]
Customized Hard Drive 250GB 7200rpm Serial ATA II/300 hard drive w/ 8MB cache [$29.00]
Optical Drive 16x Double-Layer Multi-Format DVD Writer DVD±/R±RW/CD-R/RW
Customized Video NVIDIA® GeForce® 7950GT 512MB GDDR3 Dual DVI - Dual Link w/HDCP & TV-Out [$222.00]
Media Card Reader 9-in-1 Memory Card Reader
Keyboard Gateway® Elite Multimedia Keyboard
Modem 56K PCI data/fax modem
Motherboard Intel® 975X Chipset with DDR2 and Intel® Core™ Duo support

Gateway#2 $1,262.99 256 meg video card $170? ouch. also this a uatx baby case.
Processor Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor E6300 (1.86GHz, 1066MHz FSB, 2MB cache, non-HT)
Operating System Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium (32-bit)
Customized Memory 2048MB 667MHz PC5300 Dual-Channel DDR2 SDRAM (2-1024MB modules) [$150.00]
Customized Hard Drive 250GB 7200rpm Serial ATA II/300 hard drive w/ 8MB cache [$29.00]
Optical Drive 16x Double-Layer Multi-Format DVD±/R±RW/CD-R/RW recorder
Customized Monitor No 22" LCD Monitor Selected [$-210.00]
Motherboard Systemboard with Intel® G965 Chipset & 10/100 network
Customized Mouse No Mouse Selected [$-15.00]
Operating System Backup Media Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium Media (32-bit)
Power Supply 400-Watt Power Supply
Security Software No McAfee® Security Subscription Selected (for Genuine Windows® Vista™)
Software Documentation End User License Agreement for Non-Microsoft Software
Customized Video NVIDIA® GeForce® 7600GS 256MB Dual DVI - Dual Link w/ HDCP & TV-Out [$140.00]

Thoughts, opinions, platitudes or belittling?
Click to expand...
Build, build, build!

It seems they're neutering the E6300 with tiny cases and bare minimum memory(DDR2-533). While the E6300 is the cheapest( minus the E4300), it also has the most potential. Setting up a proper rig that has the potential to reach for the sky will probably make you pretty happy. Get a nice case, decent mobo, ample power supply, and at LEAST DDR2-800 memory. I think A-Data gig sticks are close to the price of the DDR2-533 they were trying to push on you. I've gotten the 512 sticks of this brand to DDR2-960 easily. I bumped the volts up to 2.1v from 1.8v.


STAY AWAY FROM VISTA for now. Driver and program compatibility is the story on Vista these days. Get Win XP and the upgrade coupon from Newegg before 3/15. You can get the Vista upgrade disc for $12.13 shipping and sit on it until Vista gets sorted out.

Those prebuilts usually have Norton something or another installed. Avoid it like the plague! I've restored too many computers that had Norton "protecting" the customer. Zone Alarm has a decent product that works fine. I've used it for years without issue.
 
We are buying dell optiplex 620's with ATI x1350 add in video cards. I don't think we can get a better card but maybe that is good enough?

Ken
 
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