Buying a Business PC to upgrade for Gaming-- Why Not?

Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar
J

jmass4

Reputable
Oct 30, 2015
3
0
4,510
So I been looking into buying or building a decent gaming PC for awhile. I'm in the $700 price range. I don't need the best gaming system available but I am hoping for a pretty decent system. I'd be happy if it could play some games at mid to ultra settings. ( Games like Tribes Ascend and StarCraft 2 ).

Anyways I been looking for deals and I continue to see great deals for business PC's with decent hardware. From what I have read business PC's are made with better materials and have less bloatware then most personal use computers out there. So hypothetically why wouldn't they also make for better gaming PC's as well? I am thinking if I add a decent graphics card and maybe upgrade the PSU if needed i should have a decent rig put together for relatively cheap. Is there maybe something I'm not considering here?


Take a look at this deal and tell me if I'm wrong to think that slapping a decent GPU and PSU that I'd have a pretty good rig put together.

http://computers.woot.com/offers/dell-optiplex-intel-i5-3-5ghz-sff-desktop-1?ref=cnt_wp_1_2


Dell Optiplex 7020
Processor: Intel Core i5-4690 3.5GHz (Turbo up to 3.9GHz)
6MB Cache
Processor Core: Quad-Core
Memory: 8GB (supports up to 16GB)
Memory Slots: 4
Graphics: Intel HD Graphics 4600
Video Ports: VGA, DisplayPort
Hard Drive: 128GB Solid State Drive
Optical Drive: Slimline SuperMulti DVD±RW
Sound: Integrated
Network: 10/100/1000 Gigabit Ethernet
Wireless: No
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
It's such a waste of money, and that "From what I have read business PC's are made with better materials and have less bloatware then most personal use computers out there." is such a joke.

You can build your own PC for much cheaper. This PC you build (you literally will start from nothing, you will have raw parts in front of you to assemble into a console annihilator and a business beast) will save you much more money and will give you a ton more performance.

If you are into building PCs, or if you wanna try, this is a good build to do (I put this together SPECIAL for you): http://pcpartpicker.com/p/zYwpTW

This build is a BEAST at gaming. You will be able to play ANY game, even the new ones 50+ FPS on ULTRA settings at 1080p

If you wanna save a $150 and don't need that much GPU power, get a GTX 950 instead, it's a good card that will play new games med-high, and older games at ultra at 1080p.

I remind you, this build is a professional and a very heavy suggestion.

If you don't want to build, then the PC you found is good. You will have $150 to get a GPU and a PSU though. So all you could get for that much is GTX 750 TI from ZOTAC for $100: http://www.amazon.com/ZOTAC-GeForce-DisplayPort-Graphics-ZT-70605-10M/dp/B00KHUE0MC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1446257295&sr=8-1&keywords=zotac+gtx+750+ti
And then get this PSU: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=vp+450

Then for the rest of the money, go buy some ice cream

Cheers :)
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I appreciate the feedback guys! I didn't realize that SFF cannot be upgraded on PSUs. If I were to get a regular sized business PC and upgraded the psu and gpu would it not make a better gaming PC? Is there any truth that business pc's are made with better materials?

@Forever Oleg- That seems like a very good system you have put together for me 🙂. My concern with building a PC is I'd still have to buy Windows OS and that'd put me over the price to upgrade an already built system. Maybe the point with building your own system is it's much more customizable... Do you think I'd have potential to run into compatibility issues with upgrading a business PC? What are the other benefits of building vs upgrading?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote


Don't do it. I was looking into upgrading an OEM PC, and I can tell you that you will be extremely limited later on.

To start with, OEM PSUs aren't suitable at all for any powerful graphics card of any type. That will have to be upgraded no question. However, OEMs like to use proprietary PSUs (Specially HP and Dell.) so that they can make more money on spares. This means you can't swap out the PSU for a larger wattage, better quality one because the motherboard doesn't support it.

Next, while OEM PCs have seemingly identical i3s and i5s to a normal desktop, when you look closely you'll realize that they are actually a throttled down version, which will bottleneck your GPU. To demonstrate this, I'll take my own experience: When I was building my first PC, I looked at getting a new OEM one and upgrading, just like you. Specifically, one with an i3 4th Gen CPU. When I looked closely, however, I realized that with the OEM I'd be getting an i3 4130T at 2.9 GHz, while if I custom built I'd get an i3 4130 at 3.4 GHz. Gigahertz aren't everything, but what is essentially a laptop CPU would have bottlenecked my GPU (A GTX 960.) for sure, since an i3 4130 can only just handle it, and the i3 4130T is roughly 17% less powerful than an i3 4130.

Next is upgradeability. OEM motherboards (Although this is more uncommon now, but still happens on the cheaper PCs.) are somethimes built so that they cannot provide 75W for the GPU from the PCI-E slot, or power for a more expensive CPU, thus cutting off CPu upgradeability and possibly causing problems with the GPU due to it being underpowered.

Moving on, size restrictions. OEM cases are NOT built to fit an enthusiast GPU. Anything over a GTX 750Ti is likely to have problems. Also, airflow is generally very restricted in OEM cases, which means that there is a greater chance that the GPU and CPU will overheat. Remember, you are putting relatively high performance components in to a smaller than usual case, which is never a good idea.

Finally, the bloatware. Yes, OEM PCs come with the OS installed, but their relatively sub-par performance is hindered by software that you most likely don't need, and will unnecessarily take up CPU usage. Yes, they can be uninstalled, but even so, I still believe to get the most out of a PC a clean install is the best way to go.

And as to getting better quality components, think of it this way: OEM manufacturers are making products that will for the most part never see the light of day, to consumers who have very little idea past what the salesman tells them about what they are buying, for as much a profit as possible. You won't get better quality; in fact, you will most likely get a PC with lower quality components, and less useful features, like motherboard without USB 3.0, multiple SATA ports, an M.2 slot, etc. OEM motherboards are severely lacking in that sense, and are not built for overclocking of any kind.

Another way to think of it: almost any decent Z97 chipset motherboard (which is unlikely to be found in any OEM PC.) will happily overclock a K-series Intel CPU, yet motherboards found in equally priced OEM PCs won't even have the options in the BIOS to do anything more than raising the base clock frequency (A very simple way of overclocking, which yields very small results.). Soem don't even have that option. Why, then, can you overclock a CPU like an i5 4690K to around 4.5 GHZ (A substantial overclock of around 1 GHz.) with a decently priced Z97 or motherboard? The answer is simple: a motherboard meant for custom PCs will have much better (and more!) power phases, and can sustain the extra load, whereas an OEM motherboard will have malfunctioned long ago due to the high stress it is under (Provided you find a way to get a decent overclock on it, which is highly unlikely.).

All of these issues can be avoided by going the custom building route :). What is your budget for the PC only, excluding the monitor and any other peripherals? Include the cost of windows in the budget.

Also, if possible post the specs of the OEM PC you are looking at. I will match the specs as far as possible as long as it is feasible (I WILL NOT match an i7 with a GTX 750 Ti, or any similarly unbalanced setups.).

EDIT: Never mind the last part, saw your budget and projected PC :). PC build on the way!
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
The dude above really explained why you shouldn't go with the PC you linked us to, and why custom PC building is superior.

Yes, I overlooked the fact that PSU is NOT upgradable in that case so please don't buy that PC.

No, building a PC IS actuallt MUCH cheaper than buying one.

Look at the build I put up together for ya, and instead of getting a GTX 970 for a graphics card, get a GTX 950 or a GTX 960. This will save you the money so you can buy an OS.

Custom building is the way to go if you want to save money AND it will allow for customizability
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Here you go, sorry for the delay!

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4460 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($163.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: ASRock H97M-ITX/AC Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard ($74.70 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Kingston HyperX Fury Black 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($37.53 @ SuperBiiz)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 960 2GB SuperSC ACX 2.0+ Video Card ($175.99 @ NCIX US)
Case: Antec ISK600 Mini ITX Tower Case ($44.10 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: EVGA 750W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($39.99 @ NCIX US)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM (64-bit) ($89.88 @ OutletPC)
Total: $716.17
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-11-01 03:29 EST-0500

This PC will out perform your OEM PC easily. It is over $700, but even if you buy the SFF desktop you linked, you will need to spend at least $220 extra to upgrade it to the same spec as this, meaning that would cost $770 in total. Besides, that is theoretical; in practice, there is absolutely no way you will be able to upgrade an SFF so much.

You'll also get an extra 128 GB of storage with this, and I've selected the parts keeping in mind that you want a small PC. The motherboard has inbuilt WiFi, which is an added plus. Additionally, if needed the case does support a slimline optical drive, and the addition of a 3.5" HDD should you need more space later on.

Forever Oleg's build is on the right track, but unfortunately I don't recommend it due to the poor quality PSU, and the basic motherboard. H81 chipset motherboards should not be used for gaming systems unless under VERY tight budget constraints (Think ~$450.), and there is absolutely no way that that PSU will power a 970. It is tier 3 in Tom's Hardware's PSU Tier list, which makes it unsuitable for enthusiast, high power rigs of any kind. Also, his build will be slightly larger than an average OEM PC, if that matters to you. In the end, his build does have a more powerful GPU, but the rest of the components aren't exactly meant for a high performance PC, leading to an unbalanced build.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote


Your build is literally what I suggested to him. Also, EVGA 500W will have no problem powering that GTX 970. I know a VP-450 + Molex to 6-pin adapter would be of higher quality, but the EVGA PSU comes with 3 year warranty, and the VP comes with 2 year warranty. The EVGA 500W PSU is higher quality than 500W B1 so it's good enough.
It's cheap. It comes with 3 year warranty. It was proved to be useful and power even badder cards than the GTX 970 like the R9 280 (although that would be stupid). GTX 970 doesn't eat than more power (less than 200W) so that PSU will handle it with a breath.


The mobo I suggested is bad? WHAT? It's literally the most high quality budget LGA 1150 mobo even if you want to game hard. It will be able to handle even the GTX 970. The CPU is i5-4460 so you don't need to overclock anything. The E34 will do the job and save him some money.

BTW, that PSU you suggested is pretty expensive (if you don't count rebates) so an XFX 550W PSU Non-Modular would also be a good choice for much less: http://www.amazon.com/XFX-Wired-Bronze-Power-Supply/dp/B004RJ8EKI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1446386179&sr=8-1&keywords=xfx+550w

<<Questionable link removed by moderator. Beware recommendations for super low cost Windows licenses. If it looks too good to be true, then it likely is. >>
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-2547993/psu-tier-list.html

It is tier three. Ok for a build with a 750 Ti or other such card, but a 970? Nope. The PSU is by far the most under rated component of a PC. It has the potential to fry every other component, and unfortunately is often the case. Never cheap out on it. The EVGA 500W isn't even 80+ bronze, and is built by HEC CompuCase, who have never made quality PSUs. Yes, it will work, but one day it will fail, possibly damaging components. If you don't believe me, go ask one of the more accomplished PSU masters, like SR71_Blackbird. True, the B2 is a bit pricey but the OP never said he did not want to include rebates. Additionally, my build is an ITX one, which would be easier to build if the PSU has modular or semi modular cables.

H81 and B85 boards were created mainly for OEM PCs, with minimal features and lower quality components. I have first hand experience with this: my ASUS H81M-C will randomly try to overclock my locked CPU, and also used to occasionally shutdown my PC. I've tried clean re-installs of windows to no avail. The board was less than an year old when it started doing it. Your board has only 2 SATA headers, while the one in my build has 5. Your's has only 2 USB 3.0 ports, while mine has 4 plus 2 extra USB 2.0.Your's has only stereo audio out, while mine has 5.1 plus digital audio out. Mine has built in wifi, and (Though it doesn't currently matter.) PCI-E 3.0, while yours is PCI-E 2.0. I have NEVER seen anyone pair an H81 board with a GTX 970, or it's AMD equivalent, the R9 290 / 290X. H81 board are only to be used if the OP is on a very tight budget, which he is not.

All this for only $25 more. Yes I can make the build even cheaper while staying with an H97 chipset motherboard, but since the OP seemed to want an SFF PC due to his original choice, I kept that in mind while selecting components, and went with an ITX build. If this was an ATX build, it would be possible to make it even cheaper.

You are suggesting a link to buy what is most likely a MSDN license for windows. That is against Microsoft's Terms of Use, so it is not allowed on this forum. Reported.

About MSDN or TechNet Product Keys
They are genuine Microsoft product keys, that are actually retail licenses, but it is intended for a particular product channel: either the Microsoft Software Developer Network (MSDN), or TechNet for IT Professionals who pay a subscription fee. The main purpose is for evaluation purposes. The great thing about them, unlike trial Microsoft software, MSDN or TechNet keys don't expire. Because the agreement under which the subscription is provided is a single license, none of the software should be distributed outside of it. Even though its $50,000 worth of licenses, it is for one person only to use and no one else.

Unfortunately, regardless of the licensing terms, persons still abuse the program, either giveaway product keys or resell it on auction sites. Microsoft licenses it in good faith that customers won't do so, but I guess human nature wins out.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
For the games mentioned and more, why not go AMD?

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD FX-6300 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor ($88.20 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: CRYORIG H7 49.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($34.50 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: MSI 970A SLI Krait Edition ATX AM3+ Motherboard ($88.99 @ Directron)
Memory: G.Skill Sniper Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($39.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial BX100 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($72.00 @ SuperBiiz)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($40.50 @ SuperBiiz)
Video Card: XFX Radeon R9 280 3GB Double Dissipation Video Card ($139.99 @ Newegg)
Case: NZXT S340 (White) ATX Mid Tower Case ($59.99 @ Micro Center)
Power Supply: SeaSonic S12II 620W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($55.80 @ SuperBiiz)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM (64-bit) ($89.88 @ OutletPC)
Total: $709.84
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-11-01 10:18 EST-0500
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
For the games mentioned and more, why not go AMD?
Click to expand...

Simply because of the HUGE performance difference between a 4460 and a 6300. The 4460 will win easily in any benchmarks or games against the 6300, which is actually more comparable to an i3 4170 in terms of performance (BTW, the i3 has higher single thread performance than the stock FX 6300. Overclocked, it will trade blows with the 4170, but will still pale in comparison with an i5.). Yes, it does have 2 extra cores, but as no game that is currently released, and most probably the next generation of games too, use more than 4 cores, this won't help much. Even DirectX 12 won't improve the performance of the FX 6300 that much to be comparable to an i5. You'll need an FX 8350 to start talking about comparisons, which is why AMD is not used much for high end builds.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote


i want to object. BF 4, Witcher 3, even BF3 use more than 4 cores, and there is even a vid showing how FX-6300 gets slightly more FPS than the i5-4460 when playing Witcher 3

 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Ok, I'll elaborate a little more here: no game is going to benefit from having 2 extra cores. All of those games that you mentioned can be maxed out on a quad core i5, and though they will use more cores where available, this is offset by the lower single thread performance of the 6300 ie. each core can do less work. As a result, a quad core which has a higher single thread performance (Can do more work.) will be able to handle games that use more cores with a lower single thread performance.

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2256614/4460-6300.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2700162/amd-6300-intel-core-4660.html

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-cpu-review-overclock,3106-5.html

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-cpu-review-overclock,3106-2.html <------- FX 6300 is rated as best CPU for $110, and the i5 4590 (Almost identical to the 4460.) as best CPU for $200. The 6300 is also listed as entry level, and the 4590 as mid range.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/699?vs=1261

I cannot comment on the video wihtout actually seeing it my self, but what is most likely causing both to perform the same is that either another components (Most probably the GPU.) is bottlenecking the CPU, or that the game can be maxed out on both CPUs. Please link the video so we can see for ourselves. What I can tell you, however, is without a doubt the i5 is the more pewerful CPU for gaming. See the links above for more info.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote


Why spend $90 now for a 6300 now, and then $160 again for a FX 8350, when you can be done with it with an i5? The 6300 IS a steal at that price, I agree, but still won't match up to an i5, and is meant for a budget build. Plus, a 6300 / 8350 and an R9 280 will require a much beefier PSU than the i5 + GTX 960, and will require extra cooling as well, as they tend to get quite toasty under load. I don't know about you, but I'd have a build that runs cooler and uses less electricity to perform near identical to it's AMD counterpart any day.

Oh, and the 8350 won't work with that motherboard. It only has 4+1 power phases; you'd need 6+2 power phases on a motherboard to run the 8350, which of course costs more. It will run on 4+1 power phases, but may shutdown unexpected under load when gaming, freeze / crash, or even BSOD.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Alright then. Here is a skylake/ddr4 build in his budget. I can verify the cpu is great, as I own one. Same with the mobo. It also has a hybrid drive.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-6500 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($186.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-B150M-D3H-GSM Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($72.00 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Patriot Extreme Performance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($41.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Hybrid Internal Hard Drive ($63.00 @ SuperBiiz)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 960 4GB Video Card ($186.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: Silverstone PS08B (Black) MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($32.40 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: SeaSonic S12II 520W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($48.60 @ SuperBiiz)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 OEM (64-bit) ($85.98 @ OutletPC)
Total: $717.95
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-11-01 13:06 EST-0500
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Thanks for the recommendations! I've been leaning towards an intel I5 ( or possibly I7 ) for awhile just because of the performance, benchmarks and reliability. I may also do some video editing so i heard they can be very good for that.

I see Chayan4400 makes a strong case to go with a good reputable PSU to protect your hardware from the start. What parts would be easiest to upgrade later on? Can a motherboard be replaced with a better one later down the line or will you have to reboot the whole system? Would the OS give me issues at that point?

Also i may be able to win a $500 amazon gift card at work soon which would most likely go towards this build 🙂. I would need to get a monitor and OS as well so i still need to keep my aim at around the 700$ mark.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts

Moderators online

Share this page

COMPANY
RESOURCES
FOLLOW
Top Bottom