CAD - GIS - PHOTOSHOP (and related) Workstation configuration for ITALY help requested

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tonibello

tonibello

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Jul 3, 2013
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I'd like to build a new assembled workstation. At first I checked various HP. DELL, Lenovo, Fujitsu and so on BUT their prices are completely unaffordable for what I'd like.
My fear is to assemble a wrong machine or too much expensive respect to the job I have to do. Considering that unfortunately there is no way to see a workstation like this working in order to try it with my own files I hope that people here form the forum help me in order to find the best cost affordable configuration.

CONSTRAINTS TO KEEP IN MIND
a) My maximum budget should not go over to 2000€ before taxes (here in Italy now 22% and skyrocketing to 25% very soon);
b) I live in Italy so I can't buy from Newegg.com !!! Parts needs to be available in this country which is very far (mentally) from US, UK; Germany or Netherlands markets. Normally Italy is one of the last countries where big international companies arrive to sell !
c) I am not a geek (not yet) so probably I will ask to somebody else to assemble the Workstation according to the final configuration I will select according to your suggestions.
d) Be patient, if I say stupid or wrong things because I am a beginner !!
e) I am afraid that the assembled Workstation is too noisy (fan at maximum speed even for small performances), highly energy consuming and maybe faulty (because of a wrong components selection or assemblage).
f) I'd like to reutilize my graphic board a Nvidia Quadro K2000

SOFTWARE I USE
a) Autocad Map 3D with Raster Design (now v. 2011) => files range between 20-120Mb. I mostly use 2D, I overlap a lot of raster. I use many big map blocks.
b) Carlson Mining for Autocad (v. 2011) => several tools for layers operations, cleaning, DTM construction, contour line generation, etc.. It works 2D (for calculation) and 3D (for visualization).
c) ESRI ArcDesktop (v. 10.2) => I use many raster layers of aerial picture with frequent refresh and redraw.
d) CAE Mining Studio [http://www.dataminesoftware.com/software/] for data management, 3D surface and stratigraphic modelling with a lot of wireframe calculation and 3D visualization
e) Photoshop CS6 => image editing and modification or correction. High resolution scan images used which range 70-150Mb in jpeg format (600*600dpi)
f) CoreDraw => layout preparation with files about 70-150Mb
g) AVS video converter => (to transform video format, 1-2GB)


After that I propose my configuration. Any suggestion or criticism is welcome. As I said I am not an expert. So I am here to learn and to enjoy your experience as user or as Workstation builders.

PCPartPicker part list: http://it.pcpartpicker.com/p/9GhRhM
Price breakdown by merchant: http://it.pcpartpicker.com/p/9GhRhM/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Xeon E5-1630 V3 3.7GHz Quad-Core OEM/Tray Processor
CPU Cooler: Arctic Cooling ACFZI30 74.0 CFM Fluid Dynamic Bearing CPU Cooler
Motherboard: ASRock X99 Extreme4 ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard
Memory: Crucial 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory
Storage: Samsung 850 Pro Series 512GB 2.5" Solid State Drive
Storage: Western Digital BLACK SERIES 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (€149.10 @ Amazon Italia)
Case: Corsair 500R Black ATX Mid Tower Case
Power Supply: SeaSonic 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-03-17 21:11 CET+0100
 
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tonibello,

I use several of the same programs (Autodesk Building Suite, Corel Technical Designer, Adobe CS6) and on a Xeon E5 system.

The E5-1630 v3 system you list has very good choices and would perform well. I believe that the E5-1600-series processors have the best performance for the cost of any Xeon.

You mentioned that you are not a deep computer enthusiast and if you are also self-employed or a contract consultant, I think that to build a system: researching, ordering, waiting for delivery assembling, configuring, and solving problems is not economical: the savings in money is lost by the many hours of work that are delayed. I have two suggestions:

1. Consider buying one of these:

http://www.supermicro.nl/products/system/tower/5037/SYS-5037A-i.cfm

> Which is a Supermicro Superworkstation. Supermicro makes, in my opinion, the best server and workstation motherboards and the Superworkstations are, in effect, a way to buy the case with an excellent Supermocro LGA2011 motherboard, 900W power supply and heat sink all ready installed and you only must plug in the CPU (note that this model uses E5- 1600 v2, memory, graphics card, and hard drives.

This is more in the manner of upgrading an existing system. I would say that if you have any experience upgrading a computer, this is the same effort and expertise as upgrading and could be done in say two to three hours from opening the box, ready to load the software.These systems are supposed to be very quiet- another goal that is difficult to achieve in a home-built system.

I found three listings for companies in Italy that sell Supermicro Superworksttions:

http://www.supermicro.com/wheretobuy/europe.cfm?rgn=115

In the US, this system sells for about $650 (Eur 614) and then you add the CPU, RAM (up to 512GB!) , disks and GPU.

You could also consider buying a 7038:

http://www.supermicro.com/products/system/tower/7038/SYS-7038A-i.cfm

> which uses dual Xeon LGA 2011 v3 and the Super X10DAi mothboard, one of the best performing, most reliable dual Xeon boards made. In that case you would buy a single four or six core Xeon E5- 2600 CPU and add the second one later. In the US, a 7038 is about $1,100. The E5 2600 CPU's are, sfortunatamente, expensive.

I think that my next system will be based on one of these as I've decided that having seperate systems for modeling and rendering is not economical . Sending the models over to setup rendenings on my second quality monitor is not convenient and I have trouble keeping two systems mainitained- updated, and backup is too complicated. I think it is better to put all the resources into one excellent system and then have a simple system when there are problems with the main system.

For the backup system:

[ Dell Precision 390 (2006) (Revised): Xeon X3230 quad-core @ 2.67GHz > 8 GB DDR2 ECC 667 > Firepro V4900 (1GB) > 2X WD 320GB >Linksys WMP600N WiFi > Dell 24" > 1920 X 1200 > Windows 7 Professional 64-bit [ Passmark system rating = 1458, CPU = 3699 / 2D= 431 / 3D=1350 / Mem= 885 / Disk=552]

This system was a gift, originally:

Precision 390 (2006) Original: Core2 Duo 6300 dual-core @ 1.86GHz, 2GB DDR2 667 > Quadro FX550 > 2X WD 320GB . Windows XP Pro 32-bit [ Passmark system rating =397, CPU = 587 / 2D= 248 / 3D=75 / Mem=585 / Disk = 552 ]

I bought the CPU, RAM and video card for a total of about $125, so that is the cost!

2. he Precision 390 example brings another method as you can have very good results fro very little money with intelligent upgrading os a used, high quality system. It seems a bit risky, but I have had 4 used Dell Precisions over the years and one of these, a Dell Precision T5400, even after being run up to a week continuously and at least 16 hours per day for 5 years- never a failure. Performance for the cost is impossible to improve:

Purchased for $171 a month ago:

Dell Precision T5500 (2011)Original: Xeon E5620 quad core @ 2.4 / 2.6 GHz > 6GB DDR3 ECC Reg 1066 > Quadro FX 580 (512MB) > Dell PERC 6/i SAS /SATA controller > Seagate Cheetah 15K 146GB > Linksys WMP600N WiFi > Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
[ Passmark system rating = 1479 / CPU = 4067 / 2D= 520 / 3D= 311 / Mem= 1473 / Disk= 1208]

Purchased for $320:

Xeon X5680
24GB DDR3 EEC reg 1333

Had around:

Quadro 4000 (2GB)
Samsung 840 250GB
WD RE4 1TB

And this made for a total of about $650:

Dell Precision T5500 > Xeon X5680 six -core @ 3.33 / 3.6GHz, 24GB DDR3 ECC 1333 > Quadro 4000 (2GB ) > Samsung 840 250GB /WD RE4 Enterprise 1TB > M-Audio 192 sound card> Linksys WMP600N PCI WiFi > Windows 7 Professional 64> HP 2711x (1920 X 1440)
[ Passmark system rating = 3339 / CPU = 9347 / 2D= 684 / 3D= 2030 / Mem= 1871 / Disk= 2234]

I also recently bought:

PERC H310 6GB/s SAS /SATA RAID controller
2X Seagate ES.3 Constellation Enterprise 1TB (SATA III, 128MB cache)

> and to which I can add:

Dell lT5500 CPU /memory /Fan riser, 2nd X5680-- and another 12GB memory for about $400.

This would then be, for about $1400 total, a reasonably high capability and fast 12 core /24 thread system- and excellent rendering engine.

You can find very good Precision T7500's on Ebay.de. The T7500 have 1100W power supplies and room for more drives:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Dell-Precision-T7500-2x-Xeon-HexaCore-X5680-24x-3-33-GHz-48-GB-RAM-ECC-/111606746136?pt=DE_Technik_Computer_Peripherieger%C3%A4te_PC_Systeme&hash=item19fc47cc18&nma=true&si=dW8NZVIQOMpf1UgfgnplCsf5f%252FA%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

> a completed listing for a T7500 with 2X Xeon X5680 (six core @ 3.33 /3.6GHz, 48GB RAM, Quadro FX 4800 (1.5GB, $1,300 new!) and @X 600GB 15K SAS drives. That system probably has a PERC 6/i RAID controller. All for EUR 999,00. I have bought electronics from German Ebahhhh a number of times and always with excellent results- very good condition, tested, good packing, and etc.

That system is good enough to simply load the programs and start using it. And I would buy a Quadro K2200- which performs better than a Quadro K4000- and sell the FX4800 and also buy a PERC H310 6GB/s RAID controller- to replace the 3GB/s PERC 6/i. That kind of thing. but it's never out of use more than an hour or so.

In my view, these two methods could save time, cost, and the many possible frustrations of building a new system.

I would enjoy knowing what you decide to do.!

I migliori auguri,

BambiBoom

HP z420 (2015) > Xeon E5-1660 v2 six core @ 3.7 /4.0GHz > 16GB DDR3 ECC 1866 RAM > Quadro K2200 (4GB) > Intel 730 480GB > Western Digital Black WD1003FZEX 1TB > M-Audio 192 sound card > Logitech z2300 > Linksys AE3000 USB WiFi > Windows 7 Professional 64 >2X Dell Ultrasharp U2715H 2560 X 1440 >
[ Passmark Rating = 4918 > CPU= 13941 / 2D= 823 / 3D=3464 / Mem= 2669 / Disk= 4764]
 
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Yes than you all.
To bambiboom => somebody said that XEON E5-1630 v3 is not the right choice: too expensive and not fit for the purpose. Furthermore the MB doesn't support completely or better doesn't exploit all processor features because it has a X99 socket and NOT a c612 chipset . I can't understand the difference. is it correct ?

I don't like much DD3, I prefer DD4 which will be future next RAM
I didn't understand much the idea of you 2 parts system: with HP z420 and the old computer on the side. How did you use them ?
I am looking for 1 Workstation and NOT for 1 server.
I supposed I explained correctly the tasks I need to do. Do you have any further doubt ?

To sora => suggestions and a more detailed support is welcome !
 
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tonibello,

CPU: I am not certain why there was a comment that the E5-1630 v3 is not suited to your purpose. And, it is quite inexpensive given it's specification. That is to say, the performance is very good for the cost.

The question of "suited to use" depends on whether you need more cores / threads. If you're using primarily multi-threaded programs, such as scientific / simulation, rendering, animation, or video editing, then here is an advantage to have as many cores as possible and as fast as possible. At least a 6-core CPU and at a minimum of say 3.2GHz. . This i s why I mention upgrading a used Precision T7500 as it is possible to have dual 6 core CPU's at 3.3 /3.6GHz -12 cores 24 threads instead of 4 cores /8 threads, within your budget. If the multi-threaded use is not such a large proportion of the use, then a fast 4 or 6 core should be OK. My preference for your system would be to use the six-core E5-1650. Then you will have both fast 3D modeling and rendering.

Of course, DDR4 is more forward looking (also 2133 instead of 1866) Soare Xeon E5 v3's if that is your preference. The v3 Xeons do have a somewhat larger memory bandwidth (68 vs, 56.2) than v2. I did recently buy an E5-1660 v2 (3.7 / 4.0Ghz) as it's actually faster than v3 ( 3.0 / 3.5GHz), but the v3 is an 8-core- complicated!

Motherboard: The X99 has some advantages over C602 / C612 in that there are more SATA III (6GB/s) ports, the ability to use M.2 PCIe (10GB/s) drives. I've seen the note that x99 may not sully support all features of the Xeon E5, but I've haven't seen an exact list or description of the features.

I am not suggesting two systems, only two methods of having a new system. The Supermicro Superworkstation idea is to make the process of assembling very much faster. You just plug in the CPU, RAM, GPU, and drives- hours instead of days' work. It is not a server. The used Precision is a way to have a fast 12-core system at a reasonable cost. A dual Xeon X5680 system that is EUR 1.000 now would have cost over $7,000 new in the US.

I have used two systems during the last 5 or 6 years One was a fast 4-core system for 3D modeling and the second system was a dual Xeon that could sit in the corner and render. Over time, though I've decided to do all my work using a fast 6-core- hence the HP z420 with an E5-1660 v2. This way, I can put all the cost into a better CPU, better GPU, disks monitors, and so, plus I don't have to transfer files and have a confusing backup of files. This is making the T5500- which is also a quite fast 6-core and potentially dual 6-core system only a second, backup system. When I finish a very large project, I intend to sell the T5500, use that value to by a Quadro K4200 and digitizer tablet. I will then use this system for backup:

This system was a gift that I'm upgrading-:

Precision 390 (2006) Original: Core2 Duo 6300 dual-core @ 1.86GHz, 2GB DDR2 667 > Quadro FX550 > 2X WD 320GB . Windows XP Pro 32-bit
[ Passmark system rating =397, CPU = 587 / 2D= 248 / 3D=75 / Mem=585 / Disk = 552 ]

> and that will soon become:

Dell Precision 390 (2006) (Revised): Xeon X3230 quad-core @ 2.67GHz > 8 GB DDR2 ECC 667 > Quadro K600 (1GB) > PERC 6/i SAS SATA RAID controller /Seagate Cheetah 146GB 15K SAS / Seagate Cheetah 300GB 15K SAS > Linksys WMP600N WiFi > Dell 24" > 1920 X 1200 and Dell 19" 1600 X 1200 monitors > Windows 7 Professional 64-bit

> for a total cost of about $125. I still need to install the PERC controller and disks. This is not a high performance but will run my basic programs and is a more appropriate backup system.

Cheers,

BambiBoom
 
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Thank you dear, I hope in somebody else suggestion ... especially for the underdeveloped Italian market ... I see the Dell Precision 7500 ... but should I buy a monster computer of about 5yrs old ? PERC or not PERC
This is 1400€ http://www.ebay.it/itm/Dell-Precision-T7500-2x-Xeon-x5680-Hexa-Core-3-33-GHz-36-GB-RAM-QuadroFX3800-/151619178776?pt=DE_Technik_Computer_Peripherieger%C3%A4te_PC_Systeme&hash=item234d351118

and it seems too expensive for the value. Which is the evolution of high end Dell Precision 7500 series ?
I can't judge if the the expense is worth !
 
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tonibello,

The idea of the Dell Precision T7500 is that, if you need a strong rendering computer, with 12 cores / 24 threads, it would be possible within your budget. That system has three times as many threads as a quad core. And, because the system is working when it arrives, you can plug in your Quadro K2000 and start to work two weeks faster than researching, ordering, assembling, and solving problems.

The age is an important consideration. There technology is two or three generations past and there are no guarantees. However, Dell Precisions are built in the manner of servers designed to run continuously for years. There are many available too, on US Ebay, there more than 7,000, T7500's and that means that there are many parts available. Dell is fantastic in that you can download every driver and manual. When I bought the T5500 for $171, I called Dell and they sent me in two days a disk of Windows 7 Professional for $0. I have had five used Precisions, and the T5400 (2X Xeon X5460, 16GB RAM, Quadro FX 4800) I used for five years, sometimes running for an entire week, and it never failed. They are monsters in a way, 14kg, but they are beautifully made and very quiet.

Building a system is of course a possibility, and this is more future looking, but in my opinion, it is time consuming and has difficulties. For your use, I'd suggest:

BambiBoom PixelCannon Cadamodelrendergrapharific iWork TurboBlast Extreme SuperModel 9000 ®©$$™®£™©™_ 9.24.14

1. CPU: Intel Xeon E5-1650 v3 Six-Core Processor 3.5 / 3.8GHz 0GT/s 15MB LGA 2011-v3 CPU> $575
____ http://ark.intel.com/products/82765/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-1650-v3-15M-Cache-3_50-GHz
http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=E51650V3BX
____ http://www.amazon.com/XEON-E5-1650V3-6C-3-5G-15MB/dp/B00MU045JU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1411580728&sr=8-1&keywords=E5-1650+v3

2. CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO CPU Fan > $32.

3. Motherboard: Supermicro MBD-X10SRA-F , C612, up to 512GB ECC DDR4 2133, 4X PCIe x16 , 10X SATA 3 8X USB 3> $ 318 240

____ http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon/C600/X10SRA-F.cfm

4. RAM: 32GB (4) Samsung DDR4-2133 8GB/1Gx72 ECC/REG CL15 Server Memory > $460 ($115 ea.)

____ http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=D4218G4S1

5. GPU: PNY NVIDIA Quadro K4200 4GB GDDR5 PCIe Graphics Card (VCQK4200-PB) > $822.
____ http://www.macmall.com/p/PNY-Video-Cards/product~DPNo~13248565~pdp.iigbbje?source=mwbgoogleshop&gclid=CjwKEAjw2f2hBRCdg76qqNXfkCsSJABYAycP_-AKV0I5UZVBtWrk8ltpCKFcaH__Twc558CuDVDMhBoC8B_w_wcB

6. Drive 1: Crucial MX100 CT512MX100SSD1 2.5" 512GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) > $210
____ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148821&cm_re=crucial_mx110-_-20-148-821-_-Product

7. Drive 2: Western Digital Black 2 TB SATA III 7200 RPM 64 MB Cache Bulk/OEM Desktop Hard Drive, Black, WD2003FZEX> $140 (Files, Backup, System Image)

8. PSU: SeaSonic X-850 ; SS-850KM3 ACTIVE PFC F3 850W 80 Plus Gold ATX12V/EPS12V Power Supply > $146


9. Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE 24X SATA DVD±RW Internal Drive w/o Software (Black) SH-224DB $17.99

10. Case: LIAN LI PC-A75X No Power Supply ATX Full Tower Case (Black) CA-A75$179.99

11. Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit w/ SP1 (1-Pack, DVD), OEM MSFQC04649 $138.99

________________________________________________________

TOTAL = $ 3.040

And this would be fast and reliable. But, my guess is that in most beautiful Italy, that cost is perhaps EUR 2200. And, with CPU rendering, not faster than the EUR 1150 T7500.

Another good alternative is the Dell Precision T3500. These may use only one CPU, but many were sold with a fantastic CPU, the Xeon W3690, which is 6-cores at 3.47 /3.73GHz:

http://www.ebay.it/itm/Dell-Precision-T3500-HexaCore-Xeon-W3690-3-46-GHz-8-GB-Windows-7-Quadro-2000-/231507681157?pt=DE_Technik_Computer_Peripherieger%C3%A4te_PC_Systeme&hash=item35e6eedf85

> which is a T3500 with the W3690, 8GB RAM (this is ECC 1333), and a Quadro 2000, in Germany for EUR 449 or Fai una proposta. To this you add 48Gb RAM (these use RAM in sets of 3) , a Quadro K2200, PERC H310 6GB/s RAID controller, fast SSD and Drives and good 2TB drive- and still probably less than EUR 1000. Again, not future looking, but could be used immediately and upgraded while working- patiently shopping for low prices. One day add the RAM, another day the GPU, and then the PERC and drives. this way, you are not without a system more than a couple of hours

A Dell Latitude is a laptop system, not useful for CAD.

Yes, a complicated decision!


Cheers,

BambiBoom

PS: For your amusement, here is a system I worked out as my ideal computer:

BambiBoom PixelCannon Cadarendercompilanimatrographarific iWork TurboSignature Extreme ModelBlast 9900_2.25.15

1. Supermicro SuperWorkstation SYS-7048A-T Dual LGA2011 1200W 4U Rackmount/Tower Workstation Barebone System > $980 (Includes case, motherboard, 1200W power supply)

____ http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=SY-748AT

____ http://www.supermicro.com/products/system/4u/7048/sys-7048a-t.cfm

2. (2X) Intel Xeon E5-2643 v3 Six-Core Haswell Processor @ 3.4 / 3.7GHz 9.6GT/s 20MB LGA 2011-v3 CPU, OEM > $3,040 ($1,520 ea)

____ http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=E5-2643V3

____ http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=E5-2643V3

3. 128GB (SAMSUNG (8X 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM ECC Registered DDR4 2133 (PC4-17000) Server Memory Model M393A2G40DB0-CPB > $1,600 ($200 each) ( Verify compatibility with Supermicro)

____ http://www.supermicro.com/support/resources/mem.cfm

4. PNY NVIDIA Quadro K5200 8GB GDDR5 2DVI/2DisplayPorts PCI-Express Video Card > $2000

____ http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=PNY-K5200

5. Intel 730 Series SSDSC2BP480G4R5 480GB 2.5 inch SATA3 Solid State Drive (MLC > $300 (OS / Applications Working Files)

____

6 (3X) Seagate Constellation ES.3 ST4000NM0033 4TB 7200RPM SATA3/SATA 6.0 GB/s 128MB Enterprise Hard Drive (3.5 inch) > $777 ($259 each) (RAID 10)

____ http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=HD-ST40NM3

7. LSI MegaRAID SAS LSI9240-4I 4-Port 6Gb/s PCI-Express SATA/SAS Single RAID Controller, Retail > $180

____ http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=LSI-92404S

8. LG Electronics WH16NS40 16X SATA Blu-ray Internal Rewriter, Bulk > $60

____ http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=WH16NS40

9. Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit w/ SP1 (1-Pack, DVD), OEM MSFQC04649 $138.99

TOTAL = $9,076


And the interesting feature is that this system would probably save only one or two minutes per rendering from the system listed above!

 
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Dear bambiboom could you tell me more about the RAID controller.
I've never understood which changes I can do.
I saw again the Dell 7500 at 999€ but I'd like to mount SSD disk.
I'd like to know which kind of expansion this workstation allows me to do !.
Furthermore it mounts 1333DD3 ... aren't they too slow ?
Please let me know about your experience !

> a completed listing for a T7500 with 2X Xeon X5680 (six core @ 3.33 /3.6GHz, 48GB RAM, Quadro FX 4800 (1.5GB, $1,300 new!) and @X 600GB 15K SAS drives. That system probably has a PERC 6/i RAID controller. All for EUR 999,00. I have bought electronics from German Ebahhhh a number of times and always with excellent results- very good condition, tested, good packing, and etc.

That system is good enough to simply load the programs and start using it. And I would buy a Quadro K2200- which performs better than a Quadro K4000- and sell the FX4800 and also buy a PERC H310 6GB/s RAID controller- to replace the 3GB/s PERC 6/i. That kind of thing. but it's never out of use more than an hour or so.
 
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Amico tonibello,

The T7500- and I think many computers have a motherboard / software RAID controller. On a standard T7500 probably a a RAID 0, 1, 5, and possibly 10 may be set up, but the performance is not fantastic and would be to the SATA 2 stadard- that is to say, 3GB per second.

This is fast enough for mechanical hard drives, but I don't think any hard drive, even very fast SAS, can go as high as the 3GB/s, but SSD's can. This is why the LSI PCIe card- the PERC H310 is an advantage as it is SATA III- 6GB/s and can use SAS drives (7.2K. 10K. ,and 15K as well- I think you can have 32 drives ! My T5500 arrived with a PERC 6/i and two SAS drives 146GB and 300GB and these were 15K drives that were as fast as the SATA III Western Digital "Black" 1TB on the HP z420. The 15K drives are quite expensive when they hold more than 300GB. The PERC 6/i and drives from the T5500 will be used on a Dell Precision 390 and I think the disk performance will be doubled..

In summary: For the T7500, the essential quality of the LSI card is that it changes the disk system from 3GB/s to 6GB/s so you can have the full performance of an SSD.The high quality PCIe RAID controller such as LSI and Adaptec produce very high disk benchmark scores on my favourite benchmark test, Passmark.

RAM: Yes the T7500 is limited to DDR3 1333, but the latency of 1333 is more like 9 or 10 and DDR4 21333 is as high as 14 or 15 so there is apparently a trade off of clock speed to latency. The good news is that you can afford a lot of DDR3 1333 and with the large topographical and strata files(100MB+), quantity will be important. If I had a dual CPU T7500, I'd have 48GB of RAM (remember these use sets of 3: 3X2, 3X4, 3x8. Remember also that you can buy a T7500 with a single CPU- the X5690 (6-core @ 3.47 / 3.73GHz) and use the budget for a Quadro K4200- which I really recommend for your use-, and then add a second CPU later. there is a lot of flexibility. I find the single X5680 the 5500 with a Quadro 4000, 24GB RAM, and Samsung 840 SSD /WD RE4 1TB quite good enough for my work, and if I keep it, will probably not add the second CPU. But if increase eh amount of rendering by a large number, I might add the second X5680.

I think that if you are going to load large topographical maps in 3D, you will need a fast CPU, a lot of memory, very good graphics card, and fast disk system. Apparteneva molto buono ! I am working on a project with a contour map of 2km X 2km and 400,000 square meters of building and in Sketchup this file is 105MB. The HP z420 running at 4GHz, with 16GB RAM , and a 4GB Quadro K2200 is working quite well but the loading and saving to the mech'l drive is slow. That's why I changed form a 250GB SSD to a 480GB(Intel 730) as I can have a partition of 200GB for the OS and programs and a 280GB partition for working files that I then back up to the WD Black. Today I received a pair of Seagate Constellation ES.3 1TB and will add the HP/ LSI 9212-4i and put the two ES/3 drives in RAID 1. The ES.3 has 128MB cache instead of the typical 64MB and that is supposed to be an advantage for large files.

Cheers,

BambiBoom

 
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tonibello,

I'm not an expert in RAID, but will try to describe the basic ideas.

RAID had originally a somewhat comic meaning: Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disks and later it's became often called Redundant Array of Independent Disks. However, I think the "Independent" version of the name is not correct because the fundamental of a RAID is that disks are made dependent on one or more other disk. There are really only two fundamental- simplest- RAIDs. In either type, the disks should be more or less identical:

RAID 1 is for data protection. takes two disks and the data from the primary disk is continuously copied- without any tolerance for errors- to the second disk. If either disk fails mechanically or develops unreadable sectors, etc., the failed disk may be removed and the RAID will "rebuild" the new disk more or less automatically until another second, perfect copy exists. If you're using a RAID 1, it is a good idea to also have ECC- error correcting memory to ensure the copy is perfect.

RAID 0 is for disk performance. This form is much more complex. In RAID 0, there are two disks. Because it takes time- only milliseconds for the disk to access data, the RAID 0 splits the data onto two identical disks in what are called "stripes", in effect, encrypted in fragments according to an algorithm. The access time is therefore theoretically one half of a single disk so the disk can find and transfer the data must faster. When SSD's were first developed, it was thought that their access time was so fast, that RAID 0 would not be much help, but SSD's can have tremendous improvement in RAID 0. Rembener though that when the data is split between thw two drives you have two disks with a total capacity of one disk.

A RAID 0 though has a dangerous aspect. If one drive fails, then only half the data is left. Rebuilding a RAID 0 is not automatic. You have to find an intact, exact copy of one or more of the files and analyze it heuristically in hexidecimal to reverse engineer the original constructive algorithm. I never, never want to learn how to do that! To protect a RAID 0, there are several forms of a RAID 1+0- there is both a RAID 0 and a RAID 1. The most basic of which is a RAID 5 in which the RAID 0 has a third disk called a "parity disk " that can reconstruct the entire data set into a new RAID 0. Like RAID 0 and RAID 1, with a RAID 1+0 you are using a minimum of three disks with the total capacity of only one of the disks, so RAID can be expensive.

The common RAIDs I think are 0,1,5,10,50, and 60 and I would say for a professional, visualization, computational /simulation, or scientific PC, a RAID 10 with 5 drives appears to be best.

Rebuilding complex RAIDs can take many hours. I have a Dell Poweredge 2600 server with very small drives: 2X 36GB and 3X 73GB (SAS 15,000 RPM) and PERC 5/i controller. Rebuilding the RAID 5 takes about 20 hours. I recently copied all the data off the 73GB drive and only copying it took 15 hours, probably because of zero fault tolerance.

To answer your question about adding drives to a RAID, yes RAID is setup to be able to replace failed drives and add drives, but in a complex RAID it must rebuild the RAID's and this can be running for a very long time. A friend working in an engineering office said it took more than one week to rebuild their RAID.

So, that's a naive description of RAID. I'm going to be learning much more soon as I now have three RAID controllers to install: Dell /LSI PERC H310 for the T5500, an HP / LSI 9212-4i for the HP z420, and PERC 6/i for the Precision 390 using a total of 8 drives: 2 SSD's, 2 SAS, and 4 SATA., but there will be only 1 RAID in the HP z420.

I would be interested to know more about your work. Are you designing / planning mining excavations - shafts, tunnels, support access or planning quarries?

Cheers,

BambiBoom

 
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Hey guys I am here.
Should I start ?
Final project

The problem is : should I finfd these parts in Italy ? At which prices ????? 3rd world country !!!
url=http://pcpartpicker.com/p/y7zppg]PCPartPicker part list[/url] / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Xeon E5-1650 V3 3.5GHz 6-Core OEM/Tray Processor ($554.95 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U14S 55.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($69.30 @ Mwave)
Thermal Compound: Arctic Silver 5 High-Density Polysynthetic Silver 3.5g Thermal Paste ($6.58 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock X99 Extreme4 ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard ($189.49 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial 32GB (4 x 8GB) Registered DDR4-2133 Memory ($380.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Storage: Samsung 850 Pro Series 512GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($279.99 @ Mac Mall)
Storage: Western Digital BLACK SERIES 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($124.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Corsair 500R Black ATX Mid Tower Case ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($94.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($19.78 @ Directron)
Total: $1811.05
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-03-27 13:08 EDT-0400
 
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tonibello,

The parts selected look very good. When ordering, first have a look at the ASRock website and check the type, makes and models of ECC RAM that has been tested with the Extreme4 motherboard. I would be surprised if an X99 board would use registered ECC. Typically, only servers use it. Also, while the Extreme4 can use ECC, it's a motherboard that is on the edge of being both "prosumer" and workstation- look into the features very carefully. The X99 does provide a lot more SATA III than C602 /C12. I have an HP z420 with the C602 and there are only two SATA III connections. I'm adding the LSI PCIe RAID controller that will then allow 32!

I Have looked at some Italian computer sites and was not able to find the E5-1650 v3. I think you would more of components in Germany, but the taxes will be the same. The prices are comparatively much less in the US. My impression and something that's $1,800 in the US might cost EUR 1500 in the EU.

But, yes, i think you can have good performance fro a reasonable cost with that system. Let us know how it works!

Cheers,

BambiBoom
 
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About X99 and ECC compatibility http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/X99%20Extreme4/
About the price: no way ... in US the cost is MUCH less and the market is HUGE. Here everything is shrink .. 3rd world country . Believe me !
 
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Hey guys I am approaching the expensive experiment
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Xeon E5-1630 V3 3.7GHz Quad-Core OEM/Tray Processor ($362.95 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Arctic Cooling ACFZI30 74.0 CFM Fluid Dynamic Bearing CPU Cooler ($32.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Thermal Compound: Arctic Silver 5 High-Density Polysynthetic Silver 3.5g Thermal Paste ($6.49 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Asus X99-DELUXE ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard ($372.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Crucial 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory ($159.99 @ Adorama)
Memory: Crucial 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory ($159.99 @ Adorama)
Storage: Samsung 850 Pro Series 512GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($269.00 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital BLACK SERIES 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($124.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Corsair 500R Black ATX Mid Tower Case ($112.27 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($129.99 @ Amazon)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer ($14.98 @ OutletPC)
Total: $1746.63
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-04-09 07:32 EDT-0400

I debated with my if and i7 5930k + non-ECC RAM is better (or cheaper) than E5-1630v3 with registered ECC ram ! I hope you can help me to solve this last doubt ! I am pretty sure the configuration is correct.
I skipped the Supermicro's MB both single (http://www.supermicro.nl/products/motherboard/Xeon/C600/X10SRA-F.cfm) and double socket (http://www.supermicro.nl/products/motherboard/Xeon/C600/X10DRD-i.cfm) because of their high price or because they didn't support the E5 series. I skipped Asus double socket too (http://www.asus.com/Commercial_Servers_Workstations/Z10PED16_WS/specifications/).
The Asrock single process MB seems ok.
A double processor machine is too expensive NOW !!! Isn't it ? Except I buy the T7500 as suggested by Bambi
 
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tonibello,

There is nothing wrong with this proposed system- you're making good choices: the E5-1630 is excellent given the high clock speed, and my guess is that in your work beautiful renderings (which can use more cores) are not as important as being able to navigate large 3D models. Both the Supermicro boards, by the way do support Xeon E5's, both 1600 and 2600-series, but the X99 is a very fast chipset, and supports more SATA 3 ports and USB 3 connections. I like the Corsair 500R very much too, as it's a plain, and non-distracting design- probably relatively quiet also.

Cheers,

BamibBoom

 
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OK done, after long time .. Autocad , Arcgis and similar work as slowly as a weak computer ! Possible autodesk in 7yrs wasn't able to produce algorithms to optimize autocad for multiprocessors architecture ??? Any good mathematician solved this issue introducing parallel calculation instead of serial for 2D models ?
 
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tonibello,

What specification did you use for the system- was it the E5-1630 v3 or Precision T7500?

ArcGIS since v10 supports 64-bit, multi-threading, and dual processors, but the files must be calculating from very large databases so with either system, there needs to be a lot of RAM and the disk system should be very fast. Make sure that AHCI is enabled and that the power option is set in Control Panel to "Performance". You might consider a RAID 10 on an LSI or Adaptec PCIe controller either SSD or SAS 10K.

The poor AutoCAD performance really is surprising. It's true that it is single-threaded but the files are relatively small and the prgrams are well-written to run on modest systems. I have a 2004 Dell Pentium 4 3GHz with a Quadro FX 580 (512MB)that runs AutoCad 2007 perfectly well and I tested AutoCad 2014 on a 2007 Dell Precision 390 with a Xeon X3230 (4-core @ 2.66Ghz) and AMD V4900 (1GB) and the 3D was quite usable.

But, so long as programs like AutoCad are single-threaded, those with modest performance systems will benefit and those with expensive, fast systems will be frustrated. However, any system has to be able to satisfactorily produce the largest project in the most demanding program, so the poor results with ArcGIS is troubling, especially if you have a dual CPU T7500. However, if you do have the T7500, I'd again suggest concentrating on a fast disk system. Find a PERC H310 or H710 RAID controller and that will convert the disk system from 3GB/s to 6GB/s. I have T5500 and am preparing to install a PERC H310 and also add a USB 3.0 PCIe card to connect my external drives.

Cheers,

BambiBoom

HP z420 (2015) > Xeon E5-1660 v2 six-core @ 3.7 /4.0GHz > 16GB DDR3 ECC 1866 RAM > Quadro K2200 (4GB) > Intel 730 480GB (9SSDSC2BP480G4R5) > Western Digital Black WD1003FZEX 1TB> M-Audio 192 sound card > Logitech z2300 > Linksys AE3000 USB WiFi > 2X Dell Ultrasharp U2715H (2560 X 1440) > Windows 7 Professional 64 >
[ Passmark Rating = 4918 > CPU= 13941 / 2D= 823 / 3D=3464 / Mem= 2669 / Disk= 4764]

Pending upgrade: HP /LSI 9212-4i PCIe SAS /SATA HBA RAID controller, 2X Seagate Constellation ES.3 1TB (RAID 1)

Dell Precision T5500 (2011) > Xeon X5680 six -core @ 3.33 / 3.6GHz, 24GB DDR3 ECC 1333 > Quadro 4000 (2GB ) > Samsung 840 250GB / WD RE4 Enterprise 1TB > M-Audio 192 sound card > Linksys WMP600N PCI WiFi > Windows 7 Professional 64> HP 2711x (1920 X 1080)
[ Passmark system rating = 3339 / CPU = 9347 / 2D= 684 / 3D= 2030 / Mem= 1871 / Disk= 2234]

Pending upgrade: PERC H310 PCIe SAS /SATA RAID controller, 2X WD Black 1TB (RAID 1)(Converts disk system from 3GB/s to 6GB/s)
 
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