Can anyone see any problems with this potential workstation build?

Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar
Albionm00n

Albionm00n

Reputable
Jan 31, 2016
462
1
5,165
The setup I am considering is this:

- Intel Xeon E5-1650 V3 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor
- ASRock X99E-ITX/ac Mini ITX LGA2011-3 or ASUS X99-M WS mATX motherboard
- Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive
- Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (2x16 or 4x8 depending on mobo)
- NVIDIA Quadro M4000 8GB Video Card
- Silverstone 500W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular SFX Power Supply
- Corsair H100i 77.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler
- Lian-Li PC-05SX or PC-O6SX (depending on mobo choice)
- Maybe an LED strip or two
- Wireless Keyboard and Mouse (not yet selected)
 
Solution
bambiboom
Albionm00n,

What a most excellent and informative reply! Thank you! I have spent over a month researching this build, comparing form factors, chipsets, etc., and it is really nice to know that I haven't barked up the wrong tree. I was really impressed by the Xeon E5-1650-v3 when I came across it. I actually heavily compared it to many other Xeons in its class/price range for I didn't believe what I was seeing🙂 I did consider a cheaper Xeon in dual format (E5-2609-v3) for a while, but the more I thought about it, the more I started thinking about size/case requirements.

___ Yours is a methodical and valid cost /performance approach. I bought a Dell Precision T3500 or $53 as a backup system in December and decided to...
Sort by date Sort by votes


Sweet! Yeah, I have been researching this build for at least a month trying to sort out incompatibilities and the like for there is a lot of differing opinions out there. Thanks for looking it over!
 
Upvote 0 Downvote


You can't overclock Xeon CPUs, but watercooling is nice to have even if you're not overclocking, it ensures thermal stability and looks great too.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote


yes you can, at least with that one. Just wanted to see if he could save money going for a 212 evo or something
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cooler-Master-RR-212E-16PK-R1-Performance-Universal/dp/B0068OI7T8
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
There are three reasons I decided on watercooling:
1: This computer will see 24 hour rendering, so extended temperature maintenance is important.
2: extended longevity of cpu due to better cooling
3: Since I can see into the case, so there is a visual consideration as well.

I am not planning on overclocking, for I want stability and accuracy over time, and overclocking does not buy me much performance for what I am doing as far as I can tell.

I looked at the CoolerMaster RR 212E, but it is not compatible with the 2011-3 socket as far as I can see, plus, value over time in reliablity is more important than saving a few bucks now.

Thank you for the considerations, as I am looking to fine tune this build so that it will just work like a champ reliably🙂
 
Upvote 0 Downvote


Yup! My thoughts exactly.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote


Fair enough, for 24 hour operation watercooling is a good idea, didn't realize you were going to use it so heavily :)

 
Upvote 0 Downvote


Yeah, it is designed to be a workhorse for photo-realistic 3D rendering, and in its "free" time, helping to crunch computations for scientific research🙂 Thank you for taking the time though to consider a potential better cooling solution! Two minds are always better than one.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote


Albionm00n,

The basic choices are very smart: the Xeon E5-1650 since the first cersion is the best cost /perfromance Xeon yet produced, The X99 platform with M.2 has fantastic performance. Of the two motherboard choices, I think you will find that the ASUS WS will extract a bit more from the motherboard In Passmark baselines, a search "E5-1650 v3 / X99 sort by CPU rating" shows the top two CPU scores on ASUS X99-E WS (16454 @ 4.3GHz) and secondly, ASUS X99-Deluxe (15558 @ 4.2GHz). The ASRock Extreme4 also does quite well (No. 3), and is somewhat less expensive -$60 in the US.

Some other comments.

1. Unless you are very pressed for space, I would use a full ATX motherboard. The mATX can squeeze the RAM slots too close to the CPU socket and not have good clearance.

2. It's better in this use- long continuous running at full performance during rendering of video effects processing and roomy mid-tower case for ease of assembly, generous air circulation, and more drives. Lian Li is one of my favorite workstation case makers along with Corsair and for elaborate, dual Xeon systems, I'd choose CaseLabs.

3. While the Samsung 850 EVO is outstanding, with an X99 motherboard, it would be a pity not to use an M.2 drive: Samsung SM951 NVMe is amazingly fast.

4. For RAM, whatever the motherboard choice, choose modules that only fill 1/2 the slots to allow for 64GB.

[b5.[/b] The Quadro M4000 is a brilliant choice. The 3D is in GTX 960 territory and faster than a K5200 that cost twice as much. If I hadn't purchased a Quadro K4200 seven months ago, I'd have an M4000 myself.

6. I would suggest a Seasonic or Corsair power supply of at least 600 or 650W.

7. For this use, liquid cooling is not necessary. A good fan /heatsink makes as good heat exchange and liquid cooling can be too noisy for a workstation. Check the sound characteristics before choosing liquid.

It appear I've commented on everything, but the main choices are really good.

'Albionmoon" - sounds like an poem by William Blake.

Cheers,

BambiBoom

1. HP z420 (2015) > Xeon E5-1660 v2 (6-core @ 3.7 / 4.0GHz) > 32GB DDR3 1866 ECC RAM > Quadro K4200 (4GB) > Intel 730 480GB (9SSDSC2BP480G4R5) > Western Digital Black WD1003FZEX 1TB> M-Audio 192 sound card > 600W PSU> > Windows 7 Professional 64-bit > Logitech z2300 speakers > 2X Dell Ultrasharp U2715H (2560 X 1440)>
[ Passmark Rating = 5064 > CPU= 13989 / 2D= 819 / 3D= 4596 / Mem= 2772 / Disk= 4555] [Cinebench R15 > CPU = 1014 OpenGL= 126.59 FPS] 7.8.15

2. Dell Precision T5500 (2011) > 2X Xeon X5680 (6 -core @ 3.33 / 3.6GHz), 48GB DDR3 1333 ECC Reg. > Quadro K2200 (4GB ) > PERC H310 / Samsung 840 250GB / WD RE4 Enterprise 1TB > M-Audio 192 sound card > 875W PSU > Windows 7 Professional 64> HP 2711x (27", 1920 X 1080)
[ Passmark system rating = 3844 / CPU = 15047 / 2D= 662 / 3D= 3500 / Mem= 1785 / Disk= 2649] (12.30.15)


 
Upvote 0 Downvote


Greetings!

What a most excellent and informative reply! Thank you! I have spent over a month researching this build, comparing form factors, chipsets, etc., and it is really nice to know that I haven't barked up the wrong tree. I was really impressed by the Xeon E5-1650-v3 when I came across it. I actually heavily compared it to many other Xeons in its class/price range for I didn't believe what I was seeing🙂 I did consider a cheaper Xeon in dual format (E5-2609-v3) for a while, but the more I thought about it, the more I started thinking about size/case requirements.

I was originally planning on going with a full ATX motherboard (never made a final choice as to which one) and the Lian Li Pc-O8 WX. I must admit, I just got hooked by Lian Li's quality and that beautiful tinted tempered glass and have grown a little bored of the standard hurking tower of a full sized system. Space is also of a premium, for my office/design studio is also my living room...which is not all that large, and the idea of getting the computer off the floor or desk and hanging it on the wall would be a nice way to go, and if it was going to be there, I felt the PC-O5SX or O6SX was not only maybe a good size for my space, but also just looks so darn good🙂 Plus, I really don't see myself ever needing all the slots available on a full ATX...but you never know...2 years down the road and I may be wishing for that capacity.

Thank you for the thoughts on M.2...I agree and was considering this as an upgrade for the future, but sided for cost per GB for the time being. Secondarily, thank you for your advice on the PSU, I was a little concerned that the 500W might not give me enough headroom. Also, your advice regarding RAM is very sound and I shall follow it!

Considering RAM, I was thinking water cooling for mainly 2 reasons even though I have heard it is a louder solution, and one was the clearance between the RAM and the CPU, as it seemed that the waterblock was smaller and offered less conflict with the RAM than a traditional air cooled heatsink, and second, I liked the idea of setting the radiator fans to pull air into the case from above to pass it directly over the RAM and motherboard heatsinks for cooling, and to create positive air pressure to help keep out dust. I have heard really good things about the filters in these Lian Li cases and thought I might be able to pull off that tactic in an attempt to counter the lack of generous air circulation you mentioned (which is a very worthy consideration!).

I almost went with the Quadro K4200 myself, and then discovered the M4000 in a dark corner of a review. It almost seemed like a silent release in a way? Either way, it seems to be a truly stellar piece of hardware. The perfect solution for someone with a small business with need of truly professional graphics capability at a price that is actually affordable to said small business.

I truly thank you for your input as I am still open to other options (thus the reason for my post), and haven't totally ruled out a larger form factor, and you make good points to continue considering it. I will look again at the ASUS X99-E WS again as well. My goal is to create a reliable workhorse that ain't too bad to look at neither🙂 Whatever route gives me the best results is the one I am most interested in.

Thanks again!
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Albionm00n,

What a most excellent and informative reply! Thank you! I have spent over a month researching this build, comparing form factors, chipsets, etc., and it is really nice to know that I haven't barked up the wrong tree. I was really impressed by the Xeon E5-1650-v3 when I came across it. I actually heavily compared it to many other Xeons in its class/price range for I didn't believe what I was seeing🙂 I did consider a cheaper Xeon in dual format (E5-2609-v3) for a while, but the more I thought about it, the more I started thinking about size/case requirements.

___ Yours is a methodical and valid cost /performance approach. I bought a Dell Precision T3500 or $53 as a backup system in December and decided to document the upgrade process. The process when described is suprisingly complex as it involves the analysis of past, present, and future hardware in performance relationship to the use, the path of the market cost, and forecasting the potential demands for improving /extending it. My little game with the T3500- and spending a total of $185 fills 16 single-spaced pages.

I was originally planning on going with a full ATX motherboard (never made a final choice as to which one) and the Lian Li Pc-O8 WX. I must admit, I just got hooked by Lian Li's quality and that beautiful tinted tempered glass and have grown a little bored of the standard hurking tower of a full sized system. Space is also of a premium, for my office/design studio is also my living room...which is not all that large, and the idea of getting the computer off the floor or desk and hanging it on the wall would be a nice way to go, and if it was going to be there, I felt the PC-O5SX or O6SX was not only maybe a good size for my space, but also just looks so darn good🙂 Plus, I really don't see myself ever needing all the slots available on a full ATX...but you never know...2 years down the road and I may be wishing for that capacity.

____ I understand the need to utilize space efficiently. I've had home offices since 1995. However, given the cost and effort to acquire a system, I don't like to compromise the function to a relatively small change in volume as volume is the key to expansion, and to secondarily to easier service upgrading and better cooling. The pattern I developed is to have a door on sawhorses as desk and place the CPU on the floor to the left of the footwell. Not elegant, but easy to use as the CPU is next to my left knee and I can place disks and flash drives. If you have the CPU remotely, the CD/ DVD burner has to be external and there needs to be remote USB hub fro flash drives. I have a (wired) keyboard with two USB ports on it, but they are impossibly slow.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vvg8e7z7d3r0m6a/Photos_4.13.15%20038.JPG?dl=0

Thank you for the thoughts on M.2...I agree and was considering this as an upgrade for the future, but sided for cost per GB for the time being. Secondarily, thank you for your advice on the PSU, I was a little concerned that the 500W might not give me enough headroom. Also, your advice regarding RAM is very sound and I shall follow it!

____ The Samsung 850 EVO is still among the best SSD's and should be fine. The M.2 though is very convincing. In day to day use, disk speed is a matter of a few seconds, but I make full backups of 70GB and then I become impatient.

Considering RAM, I was thinking water cooling for mainly 2 reasons even though I have heard it is a louder solution, and one was the clearance between the RAM and the CPU, as it seemed that the waterblock was smaller and offered less conflict with the RAM than a traditional air cooled heatsink, and second, I liked the idea of setting the radiator fans to pull air into the case from above to pass it directly over the RAM and motherboard heatsinks for cooling, and to create positive air pressure to help keep out dust. I have heard really good things about the filters in these Lian Li cases and thought I might be able to pull off that tactic in an attempt to counter the lack of generous air circulation you mentioned (which is a very worthy consideration!).

____ Watercooling does present a small footprint on the CPU. However, this returns to the idea of a larger motherboard and case allowing a greater number of options. Looking at the thermal efficiency, a good fan /heatsink is a good heat exchanger and think this is due to the CPU contact volume being so small and that the liquid volume being small.

I almost went with the Quadro K4200 myself, and then discovered the M4000 in a dark corner of a review. It almost seemed like a silent release in a way? Either way, it seems to be a truly stellar piece of hardware. The perfect solution for someone with a small business with need of truly professional graphics capability at a price that is actually affordable to said small business.

___ The M6000 was already in use and that had had some publicity so it was odd that the M4000 and M5000 appeared out of nowhere in I think September. The performance claims were so significant- someone write the M4000 might rival the K6000! ( it's not but closer than it should be), so as soon I as saw the notices I looked for review test. Nothing, only the same general mention of the Maxwell GPU and the 8GB memory. Only a few days ago I checked for new reviews and there is still almost nothing. Hey Tom's: how about a current version of:

Workstation Graphics: 14 FirePro And Quadro Cards By Igor Wallossek July 7, 2013 11:00 PM

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-workstation-graphics-card,3493.html

I truly thank you for your input as I am still open to other options (thus the reason for my post), and haven't totally ruled out a larger form factor, and you make good points to continue considering it. I will look again at the ASUS X99-E WS again as well. My goal is to create a reliable workhorse that ain't too bad to look at neither🙂 Whatever route gives me the best results is the one I am most interested in.

____ As this an opportunity to really optimize a system for your use, it seems to me that the eventual system is axctually a dual Xeon with as many cores as practical, but still with a high enough turbo clock speed for 3D modeling. If you are still open to other possibilities how about this:

BambiBoom Pixel Cannon Cadarendereditgraphilicious iWork TurboSignature Extreme ModelBlast 9900 ®©$$™®£™©™_2.2.15

Case /Motherboard /Power supply: Supermicro SuperWorkstation SYS-7037A-I Dual Socket LGA2011 Xeon 900W Mid-Tower Workstation Barebone System (Black) > $721

http://www.supermicro.com/products/system/tower/7038/SYS-7038A-i.cfm
http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=SY-7038AI

CPU: 2X Intel Xeon E5-2680 Eight-Core Haswell Processor 2.7 /3.6GHz, 20MB LGA 2011 CPU, 130W > used about $400 ($200 each)

http://ark.intel.com/products/64583/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-2680-20M-Cache-2_70-GHz-8_00-GTs-Intel-QPI

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-SR0KH-Xeon-E5-2680-2-7GHz-8-Cores-Socket-2011-CPU-Processors-USA-TESTED-/191770882001?hash=item2ca66f6fd1%3Ag%3A9TkAAOSwCQNWhBsk&nma=true&si=bKkcIBSFWFwXM%252Bjp2IbFzHJFj9Y%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Memory: 32GB (4x 8GB) Crucial 8GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM ECC Unbuffered DDR3 1866 (PC3 14900) Memory Model CT102472BA186D > $320 ($60ea.)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=12K-00WZ-00010&cm_re=8GB_DDR3-1866_ECC_unbuffered-_-12K-00WZ-00010-_-Product

GPU: PNY Quadro M4000 VCQM4000-PB 8GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 Full Height Workstation Video Card > $859.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA24G3RH4362&cm_re=quadro_M4000-_-14-132-051-_-Product

RAID Controller : Future:

Disk 1: SAMSUNG 850 EVO 2.5" 500GB SATA III 3-D Vertical Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) MZ-75E500B/AM> $158.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA2W02DV8166&cm_re=samsung_850_EVO-_-20-147-373-_-Product

Disks 2, 3: 2X WD Black 2TB Performance Desktop Hard Disk Drive - 7200 RPM SATA 6 Gb/s 64MB Cache 3.5 Inch - WD2003FZEX> $258 ($128ea) (Files, Backup, System Image)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236624&cm_re=Western_Digital_Black_2_TB-_-22-236-624-_-Product

Optical Disk: SAMSUNG DVD Burner 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 24X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM SATA Model SH-224DB/BEBE - OEM > $18

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151266

Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional SP1 64-bit English (1-Pack), OEM > $139.

http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=MSFQC08289
_______________________________________

TOTAL = $2873

The Supermicro Superworkstation provides a case, 900W PSU, dual Xeon LGA2011 motherboard that supports E5-2600 v1 and v2 CPU/s, and a pair of CPU coolers. The components are server quality- designed to run continuously at full load. These are rated to be very quiet.

The nice feature is that so many choices have been made and integrated. You only have to plug in the CPU's, RAM, GPU drives so after loading theOS and Programs in a few hours you're at work. This saves ordering, assembling, and general configuration- there's no wiring.

By using used CPU's the price is quite reasonable, in consideration of the result: 16 cores / 32 threads at 2.7 / 3.5GHz. will make work of effects processing,video editing, rendering and the 3.5 speed is good for 3D modeling and graphic design. Plus- a savings of $16,000 against a new dual 8-core E5 system,... The RAM is 1866 since the chipset allows the CPU to be an E5-v2 that supports it. In the future, add +32GB RAM, a fast RAID controller and a RAID 1, PCIE SSD, and when Xeon E5-2687w v2's are $800 each you can have the 16 cores / 32 threads @ 3.4 /4.0 GHz. Cost / Performance / Optimization / Expandable. Not beautiful not the latest technology and not compact, but capable of any task or can be made so.

Just a thought.

Cheers,

BambiBoom




 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Solution


Ooh, this definitely got me thinking about the dual setup again! Thank you for the suggestion, for this made me dig around again leaning toward my needs for space and aesthetic qualities, that I admit are a little foolish, but as a designer I must always include at least 10% for artistic value in anything I do🙂 I am also truly interested in building a system from the ground up. I am a tinkerer, contraption builder, Theatrical designer and technician, fine woodworker, and all around lover of creating things with my own two hands🙂

I don't mind allotting some desk space for the unit, even though the wall option is really appealing, but I really don't want it on the floor for I have carpet and cats, and so I think either the Lian Li PC-O8sx or the Lian Li PC-O7s might fit the bill nicely. The PC-O8sx offers far better thermal solution capabilities over the O7s however...which is more important to me than just being able to mount it on the wall. As I said, 10% for art, meaning 90% for smart functionality and reliability.

I must take a moment to compliment you on your setup. As a craftsman and builder, I truly love your use of sawhorses and a door. Right up my alley! I also like the way your printer is totally accessible, yet discreetly tucked away...mine currently is a presence in the room.

So, as I said, you got me really thinking, and so I put together another idea for you to check out🙂

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/rjGRQ7

I am curious of your take on it, for as far as I can see, it gives me a dual capability (albeit with alot less cores for the 2609 does not hyperthread and clock speed for the time being...I can always swap in better processors with 8 - 18 cores as the prices drop in the future) but puts me into the current form factor of 2011-3 with DDR4 RAM capability. For a little more cost I could gain hyperthreading with the 2620...Am I mistaken to think this may be a more future capable setup? The reality is, is that I haven't built a system since 2003 and a whole heck of a lot has changed since then...Thus my endeavor for the last several months to educate myself on current technologies before even starting to consider a build. That system was one that I got from HP, but I worked with them to upgrade certain components and leave some out altogether for I was going to immediately crack it open and add my own components that I purchased elsewhere that HP did not offer. That wonderful system ran for 9 years. Seriously. Nine years of solid running until the technologies of programs moved beyond its upgrade-ability. :-(

This current dual setup (and your idea) is around $700 more expensive than my SFF idea, which might prove challenging at this time, buuut is worth considering seriously for the increase in productivity and capability. Not a large investment really as a small business is concerned. To clarify, I design and build theatrical scenery and interior home remodel/cabinetry (focused on fine woodworking) as a multi focused business under one hat. I have just recently undertaken to a sole-proprietor endeavor basically (business license coming soon) and have realized I need to set myself up the smartest tool I can. This is important to me...I never like to skrimp when it comes to my tools (be them design tools or saws or the like), for a person's capability can be limited by inferior tools and I am interested in being able to do my best work and expand myself as I go. I need a tool to provide this🙂

When I first considered a dual setup a while ago, it became too big and expensive...(as you said $16,000!!! Ack! Ha!), and I was also just delving into the research, so I kinda just set the idea aside. Until your last reply that is! Your information gave me new paths to research that I had not seen before that has reduced the cost and size to fit my needs...I think(?). Thank you!!!!! Still, I would really like your thoughts on the dual system I have put together for consideration.

I already use a wireless mouse and keyboard, and my 6TB backup, optical drive, and USB hub are all external already for my current computer is a Samsung RF511 laptop that I bought in 2011 to replace my aging HP build. At the time, the i5 and GTX540M in it was far better than the 9 year old Pentium and graphics card, and allowed me a smaller form factor and mobility that seemed really nice for my needs then. But my needs have changed🙂 The laptop is still running great, but has proved terribly weak as I have moved into the realm of 3D rendering for my design work (It will become my entertainment system to watch movies on while the workstation plugs away, able to be focused on its tasks)...the current version of SketchUp just chugs and freezes every 3 minutes or so, and rendering it to 3D takes 4 days and trying to use the system for anything else (even just web browsing) is not an option for it tanks the system resources so low that the rendering program just halts its operations.

Soooo, yeah, seriously time for an upgrade🙂

Thank you again, and I hope your day is great!
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Albionm00n,

Unfortunately, all day I've had an error message "Partpicker is currently unavailable", so I haven't been able to view the latest configuration.

Given the condition, use, and interest in making the system forward-looking convinces me that a dual Xeon E5 is the appropriate basis. Even if you build initially with a single processor, it is worth having the other socket waiting. Anyway, the Xeon E5 v4's are already beginning to make their impending presence known - up to 22 cores so the current v3's are already the previous generation.

Also, as I have purchased quite a few used CPU's over the last seven years with no failures, I would make one more gentle prod to consider a dual LGA2011 system that can use E5 v1 and v2 processors. In some ways I like the E5 v2 line up better than v3 as there is a clock speed gap in the 6-core CPU's in v3's that forces a big jump to a very expensive processor. I believe that a hyperthreading CPU is essential. Yes, it's DDR3-1866, but the lower the speed, the lower latency and again it's a cost consideration.

I'd say it is time for a new system! But. I've used systems for long periods too. It's possible to become very used to the performance. The T700R Pentium III 750MHz cost $2,300 in 1998 and still works beautifully. I use that until 2004 when I bought a Dell Dimension 8400 P4 3GHz- $1,800 that I used until 2010- 6-years. As it's 64-bit, hyperthreading and so many programs are single-threaded it still works at a reasonable pace. Then, when I had to change emphasis from 2D to 3D CAD I balked a the cost and started buying used workstations and upgrading and bought a Dell Precision T5400 Xeon X5460 3.16 that I used with modifications until 2013 when I added my first HP z420 and the T5400 became the rendering engine.

These are still completely usable and but perhaps I should donate them to museum,.. I did actually offer to give the Dell 8400 to a draughtsman in my office- which ran AutoCad 2007 and Adobe CS4, but he wouldn't take it even though he used a similar Dimension 4400 that was only 2.2GHz and 32-bit. I remember a cartoon in The New Yorker: there was fellow looking at a table with haphazard stack of computers with a big sign "Day Old:.

When you mentioned that you are theatrical designer and craftsman I couldn't resist spending 20 minutes designing a "Theatrical Wall-Mounted Computer". With refinement this could be fun. I'll send a dropbox link in a PM as Dropbox doesn't seem to work here.

When I can see your latest list, I'll write again.

Cheers,

BambiBoom


 
Upvote 0 Downvote


Bambiboom, I got to tell you that I am seriously enjoying this conversation! I can't stop giggling about the New Yorker cartoon you mentioned, I haven't seen that comic in particular, but am familiar with the cartoonist's style from the New Yorker, and I keep picturing it in my head (or how I think it might look) and it keeps making me laugh. Also, methinks those are kitty legs hanging from beneath the blanket in your avatar pic? It is things like that that will always have a cat in my home. They are silly and amazing at the same time. Mine run the house, and is why I have to keep my stuff up out of their way🙂

Yeah, the more I have thought about it (and thanks to your advice), I am decided on going with the dual Xeon setup...and yes, there is no question when it comes to hyperthreading...absolute requirement...Though I hadn't considered starting with just one processor on a dual board...this could be good for I could get a really decent processor, and then add a second later on...hmmm...brain churning... I am really pleased to find a way back to having that capability, for I was sad to let it go as an option a month or so ago in my research, for it is obvious that it is a superior setup for what I am doing and will remain so as my work evolves. When I think about what it offers (huge amount of cores and speed) compared to the consumer level laptop I have running a single quad i5, well, it is just short of dumbfounding really. I have always used consumer grade components due to budget and just wanting to be up and running, but now that I have become more specified in higher computing required work and more enlightened regarding professional level computing, I have caught a serious bug. The idea of having such a capable, multi-core workstation feels more like obtaining a super computer rather than the "toys" I have been playing with. It is almost baffling when I think about it in a way, yet incredibly exciting to have a tool that will allow me to really push myself and learn and use the best software tools in the process...not to mention the sheer reduction in rendering times!!! Man will that be a relief!

Please know I have not disregarded the option of the v2 Xeon setup you offered, and for the exact same point you make about the cost increase and speed gap in the v3s...That is the exact reason why I relegated myself to the single cpu concept with the E5-1650-v3. It is a shame that it does not support a dual socket setup...good chip at a good price comparatively. You also make a good point about buying cpus used, for they are solid little things and the chances of one being bad is statistically really quite low.

Really? v4s already?!!? Gaahh! Wow, can you imagine? 44 cores and 88 threads?!?! And I remember my first computer...a TRS 80 (no idea what the processor could have been) that had 4K of memory with a 16K block that attached in the back to give it a whopping 20K, it had 8 color capability, was programmed in basic, plugged into a standard t.v., and used cassette tapes as storage...it kinda just blows my mind. Sheesh, I remember when the solar powered digital calculator revolutionized our concept of high technology...

Computers are rather amazing. We perceive them as being momentary in their usefulness (a toast to the power of marketing), but in actuality they can run a very long time productively. If I was to dig out my old HP and set it back up, I have no doubt that I could still use it for a great many things. Heck, Windows XP is just now seeing the end if its support from Microsoft. I offered it to my mom in 2011, but she was really wanting a laptop so that she could surf and facebook in her living room instead of her studio where the HP would have had to live.

I am still interested in your take on my other configuration idea, though you already actually covered the things that I really was seeking your input on. CPU considerations, RAM, and the like. If I was to go with the 2011-3 route (which is now being heavily compared to your v2 2011 considerations) I would definitely go with the 2 x E5-2620-v3 to start...relatively affordable with hyperthreading and 6 cores. However, the idea of going v2 to get more cores, speed, and RAM for my money is something that I would have to be a darn fool to ignore. The reality though, is that it will probably take me the better part of the next 6 or so months before I can afford to really start putting the money down to acquire components...gotta take care of some needed maintenance on my work truck first...so I will probably purchase over time, so maybe after the reality of v4 hits, it will allow the better v3 models to drop in price or come up as used offerings? If the market is similar to what it is now though, I think I will go the v2 route so that I can get the best tool for my moolah.

I am really looking forward to seeing your idea for a Theatrical Wall-Mounted Computer! I must admit, the idea of an artistically considered and potentially whimsical computer design is rather fun and appealing to me (it is in my nature), so I am glad you see the fun in it too. I am really interested in the best tool I can afford, but why not have some fun with it too?

Again, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your knowledge, time, and ideas, for it has cleared a great deal of fog for me. For the last several years I have had computers that did their job ok (well, the HP was a super powerhouse when it was new in 2003), so I have not kept abreast of the evolution of components, incompatibilities, capabilities, and the like for all that time...jumping back in to the realm of computer building/tinkering has been an educational endeavor to say the least! However, with your input I feel like I have a much clearer picture on the potential system setup that will be the true winner for what I am trying to accomplish.

I will admit, when I first put out this thread, I was worried that I would have to filter through pages and pages of replies from gaming focused computer users trying to glean whatever info I could for my needs while having to filter out all the advice regarding massive frame rates per second and overclocking to the max and custom bent hardpipe water cooling setups (though I will admit that the idea of "plumbing" a computer is rather fascinating to me, and that stuff is pretty awesome looking...though soooo not what I am interested in for my setup). But no, rather I was fortunate to have you find my post. Another person who has similar computing requirements and a deep knowledge in the proper setup to achieve those requirements. Hooray!

Thanks again for engaging with me upon this journey!
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Albionm00n,

I was a late and reluctant convert to computers even though my father had worked with them since the late 1950's when they still had vacuum tubes. In the early 1970's we had a terminal at home that seemed like a magical, futuristic device. It was the size of a small desk and had a keyboard and integrated electric typewriter and telephone. You picked up the phone and dialed a number, listed for an answer tone, placed the phone in a cradle on the terminal that had a speaker into the transmitting side and a microphone on the earpiece. Some code is typed and that signed into an IBM 360 mainframe about 10 miles away. The typewriter clattered, "Good morning John. What do you want to do today?" And for a little kid, that was the magic part, how could a computer know a person's name and type from 10 miles away? I remember my father being very pleased that they were adding a fantastic new device to the system. This was the size of a small barrel and ran several spinning 24" platters. It was called a "hard drive" and the miracle was that it could store 5MB of information. And, it cost $50,000 which would buy a very nice house in those days. That's $10,000 per MB news of an exciting future. As there are 1,000,000 MB in 1TB, at that cost/MB, a 1TB drive would cost $1,000,000,000- One Billion Dollars.

So, the golden age of computing is now!

I cite this story as computer innovation is never finished and at some point- there's always something upcoming that dilutes resolve. In considering technology the simultaneity of past, present, and future makes it necessary at some point to make complex decisions out of uncertainty. It helps to make these on a cost / performance basis as it focuses the parameters and the market input helps the choices describe the past and be predictive.

The other aspect is that older technology is surprisingly useful and used components, especially workstation parts made for long. continuous full performance running. I have two computers side by side, a 2015 HP z420 with a 6-core Xeon up to 4.0GHz, 32GB 1886 RAM, fast 4GB Quadro K4200 and very fast Intel 730 480GB SSD and next to it a 2011 Dell Precision T5500. When that system had a single Xeon X5680 6-core up to 3.47GHz, 16GB of 1333 RAM, Quadro 4000 2GB GPU, and a Samsung 840 on an SATAII interface. I have a Sketchup model that is 105MB-very large for Sketchup and that one model is the reason I changed from a Quadro K2200 to the K4200. The navigation was incredibly slow even with shadows and layers turned off. I had to work in monochrome without textures - "inconvenient" for a model that is done to produce renderings. I set both the z420 and T5500 such that I could simultaneously load the Sketchup model- single click on the mouse of both systems with one finger. I have a chronograph watch and loaded the model. The average of the result was that the HP was 11 seconds faster over about a 1min 20sec total. In summary the new system that was 6X the cost of the one assembled from 5-7 year old parts saved 11 seconds. How much is each second saved worth?

_____________________________________

For your system, the E5-1650 v3 is a great choice, but in the long run a dual Xeon motherboard offers so much more potential. While my Sketchup model loading did not have appreciable time difference with higher CPU clock speed, that is because Sketckup is single-threaded (a situation that desperately needs to be changed). If you have multi-threaded renderings or video editing / effects processing the world of as many threads as possible will be dramatically better. Renderings that took 1 hour on my 2013 HP z420 E5-1620 4-core on the 12- core /24 thread T5500 take only 9 minutes. And of course you can start with a single 8-core Xeon E5 v1 such as the 2.7 / 3.5GHz Xeon E5-2680 (about $200 now) and add a second plus more RAM later. I did this with the T5500, changing the original Xeon E5620 4-core to a single X5680 6-core. That CPU cost $1,650 new, but I paid $230. When I added the second one 15 months later it cost $170. When I bought the T5400 Precision it had a single Xeon X5460 3.16 4-core - $1550 new and two years later I bought a second for $25. that arrived in a crumpled padded envelope and has worked perfectly on three day continuous rendering slogs.

Yes, the E5 v4's are intriguing, and though it's too early to know for certain, the E5-2600 dual models to me appear to continue a trend from v3 in increasing the core count at the expense of clock speed. Some of these will be server workhorses but, there will be still some good combinations in which the turbo speed is suffiicient for 3D modeling while the base clock speed can sit in the corner and calculate /simulate, render, or process huge video and audio. This is why I like the E5-2680- 8-core with 3.5 to model, 2.7 to render. The E5-2680 v2 is a bit better- 2.8 /3.6 but a v2 used cost more than twice as much as a v1 $550 to $200 . I think Intel is looking ahead to what I've been hoping for the last four years- make all workstation programs fully multi-threaded.

I tried posting the Theatrical Computer but for some reason my Dropbox link disappeared every time- 800K file too large? Also, since I did the first quick sketch, I thought of a number of variations and decided to refine the idea a bit. I sent the raw sketch to a fellow that makes wind tunnel models to get some advice on the difficulty and cost in making one. The materials are not exotic, the hardware standard, and there is very little finish work, but the case-only materials might still cost upwards of $500 (and with quite a bit of fabrication.

Yes, a very enjoyable discussion and glad to help if I can. This thread may challenge the words per post record.

Cheers,

BambiBoom

My personal motto: "No matter what your wealth or power may be, the cheapest things in life are free."








 
Upvote 0 Downvote


Bambiboom!! Greetings!

I apologize for dropping off the face of the planet! I have been bouncing around for work out of town a bunch and with rendering on my old laptop when I have been using the computer, I found my online time going to a minimum for the last few months.

I am still trying to make up my mind on the perfect build, but have decided the E5-v4 Xeons are the route for me. I almost went with a E5-2660 (v1) dual proc setup for those processors are super cheap and very available, but I am hoping to get into graduate studies in a year and a half which will mean I will be a starving student unable to afford hardware, so I figured while I am making real money I might as well set myself up with a system that will hold me through my schooling and the new generation seems to be the route to take. Plus, they kinda just blow everything out of the water for price/performance for new components🙂

I just wanted to take a moment to touch base and apologize for disappearing, and to thank you again for all your insight. I really think I would have made some bad choices out of confusion/new hardware excitement without your knowledge. I have around 25 variations on pcpartpicker of different configs, both dual proc and high core single proc systems, and will be finally biting the bullet later this summer on the build, so I will have to make up my mind soon🙂 Dual proc is the best obviously, but the idea of a smaller build is still tempting...

Thanks again, and I hope Summer is finding you well!
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts

Moderators online

Share this page

COMPANY
RESOURCES
FOLLOW
Top Bottom