[SOLVED] Can i upgrade or should i rebuild from scratch?

[Fatal913443]

Hey guys so I'm wanting to upgrade my RAM and GPU - Ram will obviously be right, but wondering if any of my current specs will cause issues/bottle neck if i upgrade my GPU.

Current Setup:

CPU: Intel Core i7 7700 Kaby Lake - Socket 1151 LGA @ 3.60GHz -

MOBO: Predator G3-710 - Max x16 supported PCI

Memory: 16 GB (Going to upgrade to 32GB) -

GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070

PSU: I think it's 730 but would have to double check before purchasing anything to make sure i don't need to upgrade.

____

Q1: RAM - Can I run 1 stick of 32GB to upgrade at a later date to 64GB or would That be detrimental as I read having 1 stick of ram gives you only half of what it is, am i better off getting 2 sticks of 16GB?

Q2: Would upgrading to a 2080s or 2080ti work with the rest of my set up? Namely my MOBO/CPU? Could it bottle neck?

Q3: If Current tower can't fit the new GPU, and it fits with all my other gear, would it just be as simple as getting a bigger tower and replacing all the hardware in the newer, bigger rig?

Q3: Would I be better off with a 2080s or a 2070s?

 

[Darkbreeze]

1. No. That's not what happens. Running one stick has two problems. First, you don't get dual channel operation which effectively doubles the memory bandwidth, offering a small but important gain in memory performance. Secondly, adding memory "later", especially if it's memory that is faster than what is natively supported by JEDEC standards for that platform, always is a gamble because sticks that did not come together may not "play nice". They might, but they also might not. Memory SHOULD optimally be purchased together, in ONE kit, if you want any guarantee of compatibility with each other. If you are willing to risk the possibility that memory added at a later date will work with whatever you get now, then that is your call, but we spend an inordinate amount of time on this forum helping people figure out that the memory they bought later is not working properly with memory they had previously purchased. So it's not a rare occurrence, it's quite common actually.

2. Yes, your i7-7700 WILL in fact be a "bottleneck" to some degree, because it simply is not able to keep up with most mid to top tier CPUs of today, being several years old. That does not however mean that it can't work. If you are not looking for very high frame rate gaming and want to upgrade the graphics card for the purpose of running at a higher resolution or with higher quality settings in very demanding games, then you could certainly use either of those graphics cards with the CPU you have now.

And actually, it's not the worst idea because you can always upgrade the CPU and motherboard later if you find that it is holding you back. Any bottleneck you encounter due to the CPU isn't going to be a major one really. There are plenty of people running those graphics cards with CPUs that are older than yours, and have fewer threads. Just be aware that you are likely to enounter some difficulties if you are looking for 144fps or higher frame rate gaming, depending on the game and whether it is primarily optimized for threaded performance or relies substantially on single core. For games that don't use a lot of cores, your CPU will do pretty fair still.

We need to know the exact model of your case and the exact model of your power supply, before going any further though. It would also be helpful to know what resolution you plan to game at?

 

[Fatal913443]

Thank Darkbreeze for the detailed response.

I'll have to have a look at the case and PSU either tomorrow night or on the weekend sometime - The case is quite small I originally bought it as a pre built system (i know i know, it was all i could afford at the time) - But having had it for a few years now i figured some of the parts are still relatively good (Starting to reconsider now with the CPU you just told me was quite old lol) and figured I'd be better off just updating the hardware starting with GPU.

To be honest i've not had many problems with my current set up for any games, the latest game i tried to run on complete full settings that gave me issues was RDR2 - This is what has got me starting to think about upgrading in anticipation for Cyberpunk 2077. - I only had to configure it a little bit but i'd would love to not have to do that at all.


Which brings me to my next question: I'd like to upgrade my monitor to atlesat 144hz, thinking of a Wide screen QLED (https://www.centrecom.com.au/samsun...-qled-gaming-monitor-with-1000r-curved-screen) - something like that or similar. Would this give me a noticeable boost in looks even with my 1070?

Furthermore, am i right in assuming that if i had a 240hz monitor but don't have the hardware to hit 240 fps, ultimately the monitor was a waste of money as it's not being fully used? I Highly doubt i will hit 240 fps in cyberpunk 2077 with current specs at ultra, would probably struggle to hit 144hz if i'm being honest as I expect the game to be heavy on the graphics.


Am i currentl having bottleneck issues with my current setup? 1070/17-7700?

 

[Darkbreeze]

What is the model (And submodel) or express service tag number, of the prebuilt system you purchased? It may be that this is a proprietary system and if it is then it's likely that replacing the power supply or case are not possible, without replacing everything.

Proprietary prebuilt systems generally have a motherboard, power supply and case that are only compatible with each other, and replacement parts must come from the OEM, and are generally going to be the same was what it had originally, not upgradeable.

But there are a lot of prebuilt systems that do use the standard ATX or micro ATX form factor hardware as well, so it really depends on what it is.

Yes, the monitor is a waste of money if you don't have hardware that can push the framerate high enough to have made it worth buying, UNLESS of course you have plans to upgrade the hardware to something that CAN in the future.

I would highly recommend that you consider an upgrade of your CPU and motherboard before buying a 144hz display, although, it also depends on what you play. Light demand or eSports type games may, in a lot of cases, be able to hit high frame rates on a potato, so if those are the types of games you tend to play then it's fine. If you play resource intensive AAA games, then your i7-7700 is probably going to be a choke point.

None of this really matters until we know about the PSU though, because all things flow outward from the PSU. If the PSU is not a model with sufficient QUALITY, and capacity (Notice that I put capacity SECOND, because the capacity of the power supply is meaningless if the quality is not good and the unit is not actually able to sustain the required capacity while also delivering low levels of ripple and having good voltage regulation) OR if the unit is very old, which yours likely is given that I haven't seen a quality power supply model with a 730w capacity in a very long time, then upgrade considerations are mostly meaningless because you'll just end up with problems.

 

[Fatal913443]

I see I see. It was the ACER PREDATOR from about 3 years ago - A very small case so i would assume a mini atx at best.

I've actually decided to basically build a whole new system - I will update shortly with a list of items i'm planning and would love you to go over it and let me know if the build is something viable for the QLED 4k Monitor and what would/could potentially cause issues or bottle necks. - If you have the time to get to it, i really appreciate your input thus far and you've given me alot of good info to think about.

 

[Darkbreeze]

I would be happy to do that.

Furthermore, if you'd like to tell me what the main use cases are for this system, work, gaming, leisure, etc., as well as what your full budget is for the new build, I'd be happy to outline something for you. If there are any specific prerequisites you'd like to see included, as far as aesthetics, personal preference, whatever, be sure to mention them.

 

[Fatal913443]

Thanks alot darkbreeze, you're like my pocket pc guru guy lol. I Feel like i should pay you.

This is the basic list of what i want - https://au.pcpartpicker.com/list/

Main uses is gaming with some netflix here and there.. I'd love to play Cyberpunk 2077 and ultra without having to turn anything down, but don't mind having to turn off some silly things that don't decrease visual graphics but help a ton with performance -

So i am looking for the best quality for games as possible, but also would still like to be able to have best performance for games like First person shooters etc. (Which is why i'm still leaning towards the 4k screen as i'm on a 1080p atm so a 4k 240hz should be better than current set up and atleast very close to a 144hz 1440p screen in regards to input lag and fps - (as long as my hardware can push enough fps) - but at the same time it SHOULD give me EPIC graphics and colour in games).

I'm not fussed on the lighting rgb looks to be honest, and i'm happy to skimp on a cheaper more basic looking tower to same some coin.

I'm not really wanting to go the full way with a GPU to a 2080ti as I personally can't justify the price increase from a 2080s to a 2080ti for minimum increase (Coming from the 1070, i used to run a 960, so everytime i'm upgrading i've gone up to the next tier, maybe next time i upgrade i will go to the top of the line and get a ti but feel the 2080s is a better option)

Definitely want 32gb ram (I got suckered into trying Star Citizen and figured my 16gb would be enough, Big yikes playing it at 99% probably my CPU struggling too there but could of done with the extra 16gb ram at the time too).


With the CPU again, same thing i don't believe jumping to the i9-10 series is worth the price hike so i'm happy to be a nudge under with the 9900k or something as good.

I'm not crazy knowledgeable with MOBO's but i've done some research and tried to brush up enough on it, i believe the i9 9900k's best fit is the z390, and i'm pretty sure they're compatible, other than that, i'm unsure what would be a better choice for the same rough price.

I'll be picking apart some of my current PC - mainly the SSD + HDD + Portable HD to use in the new build along with the extra SSD (so hopefully my case has enough spots for 2 SSD's and a HD).

Really i'd like to keep the build under 4,000 (The monitor is really the killer for me but i'm almost 100% set on it, it's 4k, QLED which will means pretty much the best colour (I think?) I want atleast a 31"5 inch screen and atm i'm leaning towards 4k over 144hz 1440p - I've heard once you go 144hz or above you can't go back, i've also heard mixed feelings on Ultra Wide with some people saying it sucks, and others saying it should be the new gen thing, so i currently run 2 31"5 inch FHD samsung monitors and wouldn't mind the 31'5 inch Ultra Wide to replace atleast 1 of them.

I'll need to add a few fans to the build (Will el cheapo fans do the trick or should i get better quality ones? Fans are fans? idk) -

I don't think i'm missing anything for the build to work correctly, but if i am, please lay some knowledge down on me, again thanks for all the help and reading my walls of texts haha.

Best Regards.

 

[Fatal913443]

I Should note : my max to spend would probably be like $4300 AUD with the Odyssey Monitor. However would like to keep it under or as close to 4k as possible.

Again I would like to be playing high graphic single player games at the best quality possible, shooters with good quality but great perfomance and games that are high quality and co-op/mulitplayer like RDR2 i'd like a mixture of greatest quality and great performance. haha.

 

[Fatal913443]

https://au.pcpartpicker.com/list/LqxmYH if that first link didn't work.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Before I answer anything else, "fans are fans" is a big fat no. Not accurate. Fans are definitely highly variable in performance due to differences in airflow, static pressure, quality, longevity and noise levels. Good fans are the difference between a system you can't stand to be in the same room with without a pair of headphones on and one that you can sit right next to and never even hear it, at all.

Also, your list doesn't take me to anything other than the main page. You need to click the "bbcode" button above your build, copy the text that is in the box that pops up and then paste that code here in your thread.

Not sure where you got the 4k 240hz from, but there are no 4k monitors currently that are capable of more than 144hz that I'm aware of, and there are few of those. It's just unrealistic to think you can push that many pixels at those kind of frame rates unless you're running very low settings and if you are, there's not much point in HAVING a 4k display. Anybody wanting to game at 4k, especially on titles that are obscenely demanding like Cyberpunk and Star Citizen, NEEDS to plan on runnning a 2080 ti or something even newer like whatever the higher end offerings for Ampere are going to be. We'll see what that looks like pretty soon.

But, if you're willing to turn things down significantly, then that's you're call man.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Do you have any plans to record, stream, encode or do any other heavy multitasking WHILE gaming, including running other applications, listening to music played from the computer, browser with multiple tabs, etc? Or do you plan to ONLY game, while gaming?

 

[Fatal913443]

Yeah i will listen to music and have browser up for research while playing certain games with multiple tabs - I'm not having to have 4k but I would love to have best picture quality possible while still having good refresh rate - The 31'5 inch Samsung Odyssey is what is sticking out to me atm as i feel like that will give me best of both worlds (not quite 4k, but qled and 240hz seems nice) - may stream at a later date but don't think i'll do it extensively.

 

[Darkbreeze]

The Samsung has good reviews, but it is not as good as it's price. The LG 32GK850F-B has excellent reviews, but is half the cost. I have it's older brother, the 32GK650F-B, which has nearly as good of reviews and in fact I have three of them, two for my main rig and one I'm using elsewhere, and even mine with the 5ms response time (1ms using blur reduction) is the best monitor I've ever personally owned. The 850F-B with it's native 1ms response time has to be that much better. I don't think you're actually getting anything worth an extra six hundred dollars with that Samsung display. I sure as hell wouldn't spend my money on it.

The 240hz is mostly wasted because you're not going to hit anything near those kind of frame rates at 1440p on any major AAA titles, at least, not without dropping settings greatly. And the G-sync, while nice, doesn't justify twice the price over models with Freesync that are verified G-sync compatible and work just fine.

Again, it's your call, but heck, you could get TWO 1440p displays, REALLY GOOD ones, for the price of that monitor.

A 240mm cooler isn't really sufficient for the 9900k or any of the 8/16 CPUs. It will work, but it will likely struggle. Especially if you live somewhere with a high ambient temperature, which you almost certainly do. We have moderators from Canberra and NSW and they tell us how hot it is during the warm season.

At this kind of price, you want an NVME PCIe M.2 SSD which is much faster and has a smaller footprint than a SATA SSD.

The case I selected is a great case, but my first choice would probably be the Fractal Design Meshify S2, however it is another 100 dollars over the price of this case. Both are very good choices, as are a good many others. Forget about the Cooler master Silencio. It's not a good choice. It has too thin construction for a high end case and it has problems with radiators for a lot of cooler models that are a little bit thicker. It also has punch out PCI covers instead of screw in ones, which sucks. Very little room on the backside of the motherboard tray for cable management. Very few pass-through grommets for cable management.

Yes, it's a cheap case, but it acts like one, and therefore has no business in a build like this. You'll regret it if you go with a cheap case. Not because of any fancy lights or anything like that, but because cases that are more expensive tend to be more expensive for a good reason. They have features, or include fans, or are solidly built, to justify them being that price most of the time. Most of the time.

You don't need an 850w power supply for this build, either yours, or mine. Not unless you plan to wait and go with the Nvidia 3000 series RTX 3090, which requires a good 850w PSU and likely will need one with a special auxiliary 12 pin power adapter.

I'd do something like this, which is less expensive but if we're being honest, is a much better configuration than what you had chosen in many areas.

Also, if you're going to buy an Nvidia based graphics card, you buy EVGA. No question. Every time. And if you want, you can add 2 or 7 additional years on the warranty on their graphics cards for a very reasonable price. Like 30 bucks for an extra two years over the three it comes with, and 60 bucks for an extra 7 years. US prices of course but I'm sure they have something similar for your region. Regardless, they make the best Nvidia based gaming cards, hands down.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8 GHz 12-Core Processor ($664.30 @ Amazon Australia)
CPU Cooler: Corsair iCUE H115i RGB Pro XT 63 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($215.00 @ Amazon Australia)
Motherboard: MSI B450 GAMING PRO CARBON MAX WIFI ATX AM4 Motherboard ($259.00 @ Skycomp Technology)
Memory: G.Skill Trident Z RGB 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory ($267.30 @ Newegg Australia)
Storage: Samsung 970 Evo Plus 500 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($139.00 @ Computer Alliance)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER 8 GB XC ULTRA GAMING Video Card ($1299.00 @ Umart)
Case: be quiet! Pure Base 500DX ATX Mid Tower Case ($169.00 @ PCCaseGear)
Power Supply: Corsair HX Platinum 750 W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($239.00 @ Umart)
Monitor: LG 32GK850F-B 32.0" 2560x1440 144 Hz Monitor ($639.00 @ Device Deal)
Total: $3890.60
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-08-29 05:32 AEST+1000

 

[Fatal913443]

Thanks for all the info, the list seems quite good - I'm however not a fan of AMD Anything would i still be able to add an intel CPU to that build? and should i do that, is the i9 9900k a good choice?

 

[Darkbreeze]

AMD is not the AMD of old. AMD is pretty much king of the hill right now, in terms of performance per dollar when building. They are also significantly less power hungry, unlike in the old days where Intel was killing AMD in this area. Not anymore. All of the high end Intel CPUs use significantly more power because they've been stuck on the 14nm process for like five generations now.

But hey, if you want Intel, and are willing to pay for it, then that's your call.

10700k is same as the 9900k, but a few bucks less, and a generation newer.

You will also get fewer cores and threads with Intel. The AMD build above, has 12 cores with 24 threads. The 9900k or 10700k, has 8 cores with 16 threads. Either is plenty, and even more than enough, for any kind of gaming though. If you tend to heavily multitask, the extra threads are probably somewhat helpful. If you tend to run a LOT of add on programs that continuously run in the background, the extra threads would be VERY helpful.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i7-10700K 3.8 GHz 8-Core Processor ($635.80 @ Newegg Australia)
CPU Cooler: Corsair iCUE H115i RGB Pro XT 63 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($215.00 @ Amazon Australia)
Motherboard: Asus PRIME Z490-A ATX LGA1200 Motherboard ($333.93 @ Amazon Australia)
Memory: G.Skill Trident Z 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL15 Memory ($266.20 @ Newegg Australia)
Storage: Samsung 970 Evo Plus 500 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($139.00 @ Computer Alliance)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER 8 GB XC ULTRA GAMING Video Card ($1299.00 @ Umart)
Case: be quiet! Pure Base 500DX ATX Mid Tower Case ($169.00 @ PCCaseGear)
Power Supply: Corsair HX Platinum 750 W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($239.00 @ Umart)
Monitor: LG 32GK850F-B 32.0" 2560x1440 144 Hz Monitor ($639.00 @ Device Deal)
Total: $3935.93
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-08-29 16:39 AEST+1000

 

[Fatal913443]

I'm so confused when it comes to the cpu, i7 is older, but not the 10x series, but i9 is newer, but not as new as the i7-10x? Would an i9-9900k not be better than the i7-10700k?

I'm kinda revamping my list with some of the things you've added, with a few changes to try and keep the monitor and price as low as possible. will post a link shortly.

 

[theonerm2]

The i9 9900K isn't any better because both the 10700k and the 9900K are 8 cores/16 threads and they are pretty similar. That's sometimes what you get with a new generation. It's like this. Today's i9 is tomorrow's i7. At least that's how it seems to be now. If and when there is another big leap in performance we'll probably see a rebrand.

 

[Fatal913443]

Ah right - Well i've decided to go with alot of what you've said in the above link - I've changed the ram slightly, graphics card to a slightly cheaper one (I like gigabyte and haven't had any issues with my previous msi cards) but will keep note on EVGA being the best for future. - I also am still pretty keen on this monitor LOL, maybe it's silly but so far there hasn't been any other screen i've looked at that has had me in "WOW" mode.

I also know there has been some issues with some of these monitors that I hope I don't have to deal with - I'm willing to risk getting these issues as worse case scenario is I will get a replacement, and if still no good refund and end up getting a 144hz screen (but fingers crossed the odyssey is perfect).

https://au.pcpartpicker.com/list/pJQ4yk

Here's the link - One last question, since i already have a HDD and a SDD, i will be able to slot in both my HDD and new+old SSD? or will i have to not use one SSD?

Thanks again, and how would you hypothetically rate this set up for high graphics games like RDR2 and upcoming cyberpunk 2077?

 

[Fatal913443]

I found this - https://www.scorptec.com.au/bundle/Cases/ATX/868-SST-FAB1B-LDRBplusSST-PF240-ARGB -- Would you think this is a good alternative to the case you suggested? It comes with a CPU Cooler (Would this suffice enough to warrant not getting the other one?) I could save costs here - If that cpu cooler is no good by its self, is there anyway to use 2 CPU coolers?

Also with the PSU - could you suggest another one? (Where i may buy these items from scorptec doesn't seem to have that PSU - So even a Gold of similiar cost that would do).

EDIT: Also how many extra fans should I aim to install for cooling?

 

[Fatal913443]

So you can possibly disregard some of what was said in my above post -

I've rejigged my list and come up with this - If you could take a look at that and lmk if there would be issues?

Still am keen for a PSU + Case that is currently "In Stock" at www.scoprtec.com.au (if you have the time) that would be compatible with the list.

New jig : https://au.pcpartpicker.com/list/2HjT8M

 

[Fatal913443]

So i've slightly changed the build again - Unsure if i need a different case or not - And have gone with a higher PSU as the GPU is now a 2080ti - Heard this particular screen also requires alot of power from the gpu and i guess the PSU -

Would you suggest a change in Case? is the PSU good enough at 860w plat with the 2080ti? will the i7-10700k still be viable with the 2080ti? Cheers

https://au.pcpartpicker.com/list/V9VMRk

 

[Fatal913443]

Am i going to be able to put my old HDD with windows on it into my new rig and start it up to do a re-format? Or Do i need to reformat before installing it into my new PC with all the new gpu/cpu/mobos etc.

 

[Darkbreeze]

i7 and i9 having ZERO, NOTHING, at all, to do with how "old" the CPU is. There are i7 models going all the way back to the first gen in 2008 and up to the latest generation this year, of which I listed the most popular model which IS basically the exact same CPU as the previous generation i9-9900k.

Same cache. Basically the same maximum boost speed, 100mhz more actually on the 10700k than the 9900k, so minimally faster if you have good enough cooling to support it.

Being an "i9" does not make any CPU newer than another that is an i7.

i7 and i9 are simply families within each generation that in general describes levels of performance based on commonly expected standards. i3 is at the bottom of the heap for each generation of Core-i processor while i7 has typically been at the top of the pile, i9 being a step up from i7 in most cases. Nothing to do with old or new, at all. There are old and new models of both i7 and i9.

 

[Fatal913443]

Did you get a chance to look at the new build Dark? Think all will be compatible and fit in the case? Forsee any problems that could arise?

 

[Vic 40]

Personally do i think, although great M.2 ssd's, that the 970 is too expensive, you could get for a bit more two of these in that build,
https://au.pcpartpicker.com/product...-m2-2280-nvme-solid-state-drive-sa2000m81000g