CERN Wants to Upgrade LHC's Luminosity by 10 Times

[Guest]

Just two years after LHC ran its first particle collisions on all four of its detectors.

CERN Wants to Upgrade LHC's Luminosity by 10 Times : Read more

 

[eddieroolz]

I wish I can make sense of the numbers in this news article, but it seems I have failed.

 

[rottingsheep]

... awesome?

 

[southernshark]

I think if they put some black lights in there that it would look cool.

 

[hoofhearted]

I wonder if this was going to be the "big mystery" the Ancients were trying to solve in SGU?

 

[bennaye]

[citation][nom]rottingsheep[/nom]... awesome?[/citation]

awesomely expensive

 

[Granter]

You recommend all of you to watch the anime Steins gate, there is a deep story there that involves CERN and time travel, and within anime community the anime is ranked one of the best animes ever made. check it out.

 

[Guest]

"One of the benefits of the modification may be that scientists can detect evidence for the Higgs Boson. "

Oh come on! The worst case Standard Model Higgs at 115 GeV requires an average of 17/fb to discover and they recorded 10/fb this year alone. The LHC spec without this upgrade calls for 300/fb per year at twice the current energy; enough to dicover or rule out the Higgs in days. This upgrade is planned for the year 2020...

 

[cookoy]

It's there, somewhere out there, but we need more light to see it, or bigger eyes, or bigger shovels, or more power. One thing is certain, we need more cash, tons of it. And while we're talking cash, can we poor scientists get a huge payroll increase?

 

[fazers_on_stun]

[citation][nom]cookoy[/nom]It's there, somewhere out there, but we need more light to see it, or bigger eyes, or bigger shovels, or more power. One thing is certain, we need more cash, tons of it. And while we're talking cash, can we poor scientists get a huge payroll increase?[/citation]

Heh well I have a 4-D-cell flashlight they can borrow ..

On a more serious note - how can CERN afford this with the Eurozone economy on the rocks? I know the US contributes some funds but the bulk comes from Europe IIRC. There's some financial "gurus" who think that the Eurozone will break up in the next year or two, dragging the US economy back into a major recession (think Dow below 8000, just like 2008-2009).

 

[nebun]

such a waste of money....how much does uncle sam donate to this program?

 

[Parsian]

[citation][nom]nebun[/nom]such a waste of money....how much does uncle sam donate to this program?[/citation]

oh boy, u just prompted me to login to thumb u down, you have no idea how wrong you are. Even when we dont get any result, science expands (due to technological needs) as our demand grows to see more and more.

 

[spunkymunky]

@nebun

Got to love how people make the money comments... Guess what, these programs give people jobs WHILE advancing knowledge of basic science. The people researching, making the equipment, constructing the infrastructure all make a living from your idea of "waste of money".

Also, commercial industries do not invest in basic science since it has no return on investment. Government and educational institutes must do these studies which will take tax money, but the benefits are huge. You would not be able to post your ignorant comments on here without past tax-payers investments into basic research, without "waste of money".

What is a waste of money is our current educational system as it leads to people that think like you.

 

[joex444]

I see you grabbed this article from Reuters. Unfortunately Reuters itself is wrong.

It may be worthwhile to actually check what the current instantaneous luminosity the LHC has achieved. ATLAS, for example, states this on their home page -- http://atlas.ch/ -- just hover over the Proton run and you'll see the highest luminosity we achieved was 3.65 x 10^33. And to the above who said we have 10/fb... yes, if you combine the CMS and ATLAS experiment. Each one has roughly 5/fb. We first need each experiment to finish their search before anyone else can try to combine the results.

As for nebun... I just want to weap for humanity.

 

[hetneo]

4.67 x·1032 cm−2s−1??? 32 -2 and -1 should be superscript not subscript. It's 10 to power of 32, cm to power of -2 or 1/cm2 same for seconds. Or simply write it as 46700000000000000000000000000 (is there 26 0's?) candelas per square meter (cd/m2).

 

[izoli]

[citation][nom]granter[/nom]You recommend all of you to watch the anime Steins gate, there is a deep story there that involves CERN and time travel, and within anime community the anime is ranked one of the best animes ever made. check it out.[/citation]

Definitely one of the best anime this season, but it is just an anime I am not sure if I would take many life lessons from that show.

 

[beayn]

[citation][nom]hoofhearted[/nom]I wonder if this was going to be the "big mystery" the Ancients were trying to solve in SGU?[/citation]
I wish they hadn't canceled that show

 

[JOSHSKORN]

CERN is going to split the Earth into two pieces (or more) if this keeps up.

 

[f-14]

you fail at math, all it leads to is an arms race that just triples and multiplies by 100x's costing more tax payer dollars. take your social communism back to grade school math and learn how miserably it fails with out the theft of the wealth of other nations and the death of a great many people also.

The most successful war seldom pays for its losses.
Thomas Jefferson
War is an instrument entirely inefficient toward redressing wrong; and multiplies, instead of indemnifying losses.
Thomas Jefferson
We did not raise armies for glory or for conquest.
Thomas Jefferson

[citation][nom]spunkymunky[/nom]@nebunGot to love how people make the money comments... Guess what, these programs give people jobs WHILE advancing knowledge of basic science. The people researching, making the equipment, constructing the infrastructure all make a living from your idea of "waste of money". Also, commercial industries do not invest in basic science since it has no return on investment. Government and educational institutes must do these studies which will take tax money, but the benefits are huge. You would not be able to post your ignorant comments on here without past tax-payers investments into basic research, without "waste of money".What is a waste of money is our current educational system as it leads to people that think like you.[/citation]

 

[pjmelect]

For those who say that CERN is a waste of money, don't forget that one of the technological spin offs was the World Wide Web. You can never predict what other spin offs may come about from basic research.

 

[cpatel1987]

Umm...que?

 

[fpga123]

They are just cutting some useless crap for those standard model activists so that they won't lose hope and in turn won't make LHC useless... After all Higgs Boson was the main reason LHC came to be!

 

[rantoc]

[citation][nom]fazers_on_stun[/nom]On a more serious note - how can CERN afford this with the Eurozone economy on the rocks? I know the US contributes some funds but the bulk comes from Europe IIRC. There's some financial "gurus" who think that the Eurozone will break up in the next year or two, dragging the US economy back into a major recession (think Dow below 8000, just like 2008-2009).[/citation]

Well US aren't exactly in good shape either, look at the loans that need to re-repaid someday! The EU have a few membership country's that haven't exactly run their country's well but the majority have good finances. Did you know that every American have a loan of 48.800$ and most of that is to the Chinese and what have you got from that money?

Considering the economical climate atm i think the money put into those things could have been used better like making sure people at least have a roof over their head and a meal but i guess its to much to ask for - A world gone sane!

 

[nebun]

[citation][nom]Parsian[/nom]oh boy, u just prompted me to login to thumb u down, you have no idea how wrong you are. Even when we dont get any result, science expands (due to technological needs) as our demand grows to see more and more.[/citation]
and what exactly do you want to see?....all i see is a nation with empty pockets and trillions in debt...this is not something we should be proud of

 

[Guest]

Id rather waste money on 100 LHCs then do another iraq war.

Cost of iraq/afghanicstan war so far 3.2-4 trillion. Cost of LHC is ~9 billion. You could have funded 400 LHC scale projects instead. If you convert the cost of the apollo program to today dollars you get about 100-120 billion or so. You could have funded about 40 apollo scale programs.

The internet was born out of particle physics research. The MRI was born out of particle physics research. There are many many modern day technologies that we take for granded that are born out of large scale science projects. And yet their combined budges are nothing compared to the money that was pissed away in iraq in the last decade.

Makes me extremely frustrated and sad when i think of the technology we could have today if we spent just 10% as much on science as we do on the millitary.