Challenging FPS: Testing SLI And CrossFire Using Video Capture

[bystander]

I do think it would be worth incrementing that count a few times, say 25, 30, 40, 60 to see if there's a "cutoff" point where suddenly AMD is no worse than nVidia.

I believe as you increase it, it'll make AMD look worse, until you hit a point where you get into normal frame sizes, then both will just drop to 0.

 

[PC_lover]

The is no relation between the frame time of nVidia cards and their number of runt frames. Quick Google "geforce frame metering" and you will find out why the nVi cards rarely have runt frames IN CHART. In fact, nVi cards DO HAVE them. They just delays those frames a bit to match with other good frames' speed, therefore the frame time chart looks good miraculously. And you, the user, will have to deal with input delay, as well as runt frames, of course.

The whole picture looks like a marketing trick from nVidia, it's meant to SELL

 

[PC_lover]

Quick Google "geforce frame metering" and you will find out why the nVi cards rarely have runt frames IN CHART. In fact, nVi cards DO have them. They just delays those frames a bit to match with other good frames' speed, therefore the frame time chart looks good miraculously. And you, the user, will have to deal with input delay.

The whole picture looks like a marketing trick from nVidia, it's meant to SELL. They involved in frame benchmark technology, and created the cards which can fool that technology. Damn cool.

 

[bystander]

The is no relation between the frame time of nVidia cards and their number of runt frames. Quick Google "geforce frame metering" and you will find out why the nVi cards rarely have runt frames IN CHART. In fact, nVi cards DO HAVE them. They just delays those frames a bit to match with other good frames' speed, therefore the frame time chart looks good miraculously. And you, the user, will have to deal with input delay, as well as runt frames, of course.

The whole picture looks like a marketing trick from nVidia, it's meant to SELL

In order for the frames to get out of sync, one card has to have rendered a frame faster than the other.

So, what is better, to have a slower frame followed by a faster frame, which results in several frames that are barely seen, or to have the frame following a slower frame be slowed down to be almost as slow, which results in nicely spaced frames? Not only do you get stuttery output without metering, but you get poorly spaced input, which has its own form of latency (extra long time between inputs is latency as well).

I'll take consistent frame times and spaced out input, over erratic frame times and input times.

 

[ubercake]

The is no relation between the frame time of nVidia cards and their number of runt frames. Quick Google "geforce frame metering" and you will find out why the nVi cards rarely have runt frames IN CHART. In fact, nVi cards DO HAVE them. They just delays those frames a bit to match with other good frames' speed, therefore the frame time chart looks good miraculously. And you, the user, will have to deal with input delay, as well as runt frames, of course.

The whole picture looks like a marketing trick from nVidia, it's meant to SELL

In order for the frames to get out of sync, one card has to have rendered a frame faster than the other.

So, what is better, to have a slower frame followed by a faster frame, which results in several frames that are barely seen, or to have the frame following a slower frame be slowed down to be almost as slow, which results in nicely spaced frames? Not only do you get stuttery output that way, but you get poorly spaced input, which has its own form of latency (extra long time between inputs is latency as well).

I'll take consistent frame times and spaced out input, over erratic frame times and input times.

Me too. At least it's predictable.

I challenge anyone to try both 7970s in crossfire and 680s in SLI. If you haven't tried both crossfire and SLI, you'll only believe what other people have told you. If you have tried both, you'll know that Nvidia offers a better multi-card solution.

There's a reason you pay a premium for Nvidia cards and it's not what FRAPS has to say. It's overall performance. These runt-frame/dropped-frame studies offer good explanations of why FRAPS can show high framerates with crossfire while producing flickering video.

I guess some people are just satisfied with the higher number in the yellow font in the corner of their screen no matter what the rest of the screen looks like.

 

[jessterman21]

I guess some people are just satisfied with the higher number in the yellow font in the corner of their screen no matter what the rest of the screen looks like.

+1

I stopped running FRAPS with all my games about a year ago - I would be playing a game just fine - feeling smooth, and then look at the framerate and see it drop below 40, and immediately feel frustrated with my hardware. The point of PC gaming is to smoothly play the games at high settings, not insist that you are always at a certain fps in every game.

 

[Onus]

I guess some people are just satisfied with the higher number in the yellow font in the corner of their screen no matter what the rest of the screen looks like.

+1

I stopped running FRAPS with all my games about a year ago - I would be playing a game just fine - feeling smooth, and then look at the framerate and see it drop below 40, and immediately feel frustrated with my hardware. The point of PC gaming is to smoothly play the games at high settings, not insist that you are always at a certain fps in every game.

This. People could save themselves a lot of money if they accepted a smooth 35 (better than movie quality) rather than a jittery 65 that would end up irritating the pooh out of them.

 

[nukemaster]

For users who are more effected by frame rate changes, can use something like MSI afterburner to limit the frame rates on games.

Nvidia Inspector can do it as well at a per game level.
Radeon Pro has never seemed to be that great IMO.

 

[cravin]

For users who are more effected by frame rate changes, can use something like MSI afterburner to limit the frame rates on games.

Nvidia Inspector can do it as well at a per game level.
Radeon Pro has never seemed to be that great IMO.

How do I do this? My frame rate is always going up and down. I've watched 45fps twitch streams and they look awesome, I'd gladly give up my jittery 120+ for a good consistant 45. But with the vsync it always has input lag which sucks

 

[jessterman21]

I guess some people are just satisfied with the higher number in the yellow font in the corner of their screen no matter what the rest of the screen looks like.

+1

I stopped running FRAPS with all my games about a year ago - I would be playing a game just fine - feeling smooth, and then look at the framerate and see it drop below 40, and immediately feel frustrated with my hardware. The point of PC gaming is to smoothly play the games at high settings, not insist that you are always at a certain fps in every game.

This. People could save themselves a lot of money if they accepted a smooth 35 (better than movie quality) rather than a jittery 65 that would end up irritating the pooh out of them.

For users who are more effected by frame rate changes, can use something like MSI afterburner to limit the frame rates on games.

Nvidia Inspector can do it as well at a per game level.
Radeon Pro has never seemed to be that great IMO.

How do I do this? My frame rate is always going up and down. I've watched 45fps twitch streams and they look awesome, I'd gladly give up my jittery 120+ for a good consistant 45. But with the vsync it always has input lag which sucks

Adaptive Vsync or the OSI within Afterburner - choose a game .exe and click the wrench to set a max fps limit. Changed my life.

 

[nukemaster]

For afterburner

Install MSI afterburner and then select Settings.

On the next screen select On screen display and select "More"

You will get a RivaTuner Statics Server technology window with a "adjustable wrench"(Crescent) on the right side. Select that and then you will see an option to set a frame rate limit(0 means none or disabled so set 45-50 what ever you want).

For Nvidia Inspector

Open Nvidia Inspector

Select Drive 256+ profile settings(its a screw driver and wrench crossed next to the current driver version)

You need to give elevated permissions so go a head and say yes.

You can search for your game from the _GLOBAL_DRIVER_PROFILE (Base Profile) so you can edit each game you to have a fixed fps based on game type and preferences.

Scroll down to Common and you should see a "Frame Rate Limiter" option. Select what you want then apply the changes and restart your game if it was running.

You should now have the frame rate you set.

Final Note
Just remember, some users will fine lower frame rates feel less smooth(play with it to see what works for you), but other like the more consistent performance vs high/low constantly

 

[cravin]

This frame rate limiter wouldn't cause any imput lag would it?

 

[bystander]

This frame rate limiter wouldn't cause any imput lag would it?

That is a complicated answer. If you measure input lag as the time it takes collect then start to display a frame, then no. However, latency increases, as you are delaying the displaying of a frame. You also can increase the time between input points, though considering runt frames will result in long input times followed by very short input times, you will find you will get more consistent spacing of input as a result, which may end up better.

 

[nukemaster]

The only thing I have seen give insane input lag(and only tested it on one game) was Nvidia's Adaptive Vysnc in half refresh mode(normal adaptive was ok when compared to normal vsync for input delay[minimal enough for me to play with], but this half[what I as guessing would just be a straight up 30fps frame limiter was not quite so]).

 

[jessterman21]

I can attest ...Vsync + 30fps is Laggggggy

 

[nukemaster]

I can attest ...Vsync + 30fps is Laggggggy

Strange thing is v-sync + 30fps limit was not even half as bad as this was. It was insane(maybe the game did not get along with it? It was Just Cause 2).

 

[bystander]

I can attest ...Vsync + 30fps is Laggggggy

Strange thing is v-sync + 30fps limit was not even half as bad as this was. It was insane(maybe the game did not get along with it? It was Just Cause 2).

That half refresh rate option really only makes since for 120hz monitors in my opinion. 30 FPS is awful if the game is mouse driven.

 

[ingtar33]

With the cost premium between the top card an the ones that one or two notches down growing and growing, and the difference in performance shrinking (i.e. 670 vs 680), the appeal of two mid range cards has become more attractive.

Absolutely. I am chomping at the bit to upgrade to a GTX 670, but I can't bring myself to pay almost 100% more than a GTX 660 for 30% more performance... So I'm waiting for the GTX 760 - which really should hit at less than $250. But SLIing 2GB GTX 650Ti Boosts is tempting for the price.

...But SLIing 2GB GTX 650Ti Boosts is tempting for the price.

Indeed. I wonder if we'll get to see this exact combination in a [near-]future SBM build?

except for the fact that the 650ti (boost or otherwise) is not SLi capable.

 

[jessterman21]

except for the fact that the 650ti (boost or otherwise) is not SLi capable.

Check your facts, senor - the 650Ti Boost is SLI capable, just like the 660.

 

[ubercake]

except for the fact that the 650ti (boost or otherwise) is not SLi capable.

Check your facts, senor - the 650Ti Boost is SLI capable, just like the 660.

This is true.

 

[17seconds]

Quote:

"After running the GeForce GTX 650 Ti Boost SLI through our test suite, I have to admit that I'm impressed. The duo delivered performance easily matching and often exceeding much more expensive single-card options such as the GeForce GTX 680 and Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition, and they don't cost as much. SLI multi-GPU scaling works well with all of our titles except for F1 2012. Scaling by going from one to two GTX 650 Ti Boost cards is around 70%, even with F1 2012 taken into account. Unlike AMD, NVIDIA does a good job of maintaining its SLI profiles, so you should be able to play new games without a long wait for multi-GPU support. However, the risk that a game will not be supported still exists, and you might, at worst, end up with single-card performance. This is in my opinion, given the massive performance-per-dollar advantage, an acceptable tradeoff. I would definitely recommend a GTX 650 Ti Boost SLI setup to a friend looking to spend as little money as possible on a high-end gaming rig."
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_650_Ti_Boost_SLI/23.html

 

[kdawgmaster]

So let me get this straight, we are using an Nvidia based benchmarking tool to test both AMD and Nvidia cards. In this we try to see what the difference is between practical fps and hardware fps.

Unless theres a 3rd party program that hasnt had any GPU manufactures influence on it i wont consider this a valid test at all. Theres to much of a biased result in this which can cause a confliction.

 

[nukemaster]

It was stated that FRAPS(third party software) can add the overlay.

While the software it self(to analyze the results) is Nvidia made, it simply looks at a video stream so it has no real way to know what card is in the system.

I would have called foul too if I did not see all the details, but they are on the site.

By this logic, ALL game benchmarks are invalid since either company has influence over one game or another. Almost all the big games have red or green backing them.

 

[ubercake]

So let me get this straight, we are using an Nvidia based benchmarking tool to test both AMD and Nvidia cards. In this we try to see what the difference is between practical fps and hardware fps.

Unless theres a 3rd party program that hasnt had any GPU manufactures influence on it i wont consider this a valid test at all. Theres to much of a biased result in this which can cause a confliction.

AMD admits they have issues:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6857/amd-stuttering-issues-driver-roadmap-fraps

They're supposedly working on it.