[SOLVED] Changing power plan while laptop plugged in not effecting CPU in Win11?

[_dawn_chorus_]

I was running a heavy project in FL Studio on battery with a balanced power profile and I was getting around 60-70c temps on the laptops 1260p CPU and only about 50% usage. As soon as I plug it in it ramps up and stays at around 90c with no noticeable performance gain...

It was on the same profile as when on battery. I tried changing power plans, limiting max CPU power state but nothing seemed to make it drop from that 90c temp.

I soon went mad digging through Win11's settings which are nested within nests, within more nests, presumably to "simplify" the user experience...

Can someone please share the secret of how to prevent my processor from going balls to the wall every time a charging cable is plugged into the laptop?

 

[Darkbreeze]

First thing you need to do is make sure you have the most recent BIOS version installed.

Second thing you need to do is make sure you have the latest chipset driver, as available for your laptop model from the manufacturer, installed. Do not rely on Microsoft's native drivers for this. There are plenty of configuration settings behind the curtain especially in the area of the power plans, that directly rely on the chipset drivers for direction on how to function. If you find you need to update, be sure to restart after you update the chipset drivers. And it's not a bad idea to check all of the drivers to make sure you have the latest ones from the manufacturer installed. Don't ever rely on Windows for drivers, not even for laptops, unless you absolutely have to.

Then, go into the power options and make sure both battery and plugged in are set to balanced. Go into the advanced options and make sure that for both battery and plugged in the Min processor power state is 5% (Or if it's set even lower by default, that's fine) and Max is 100%.

Next, go into the BIOS and make sure Intel Speed Shift is disabled and that Intel Speed Step is ENABLED.

Save settings, exit BIOS and check to see if you still see the same behavior. If you do, then it MIGHT have something to do with FL studio IF it is using AVX instructions in the main program or any plugins you might have installed. The system might have settings which automatically offset AVX when on battery but not when plugged in. In that case, while it's not as likely on a laptop, you might check in the BIOS to see if there are any settings for AVX offset.

 

[_dawn_chorus_]

First thing you need to do is make sure you have the most recent BIOS version installed.

Second thing you need to do is make sure you have the latest chipset driver, as available for your laptop model from the manufacturer, installed. Do not rely on Microsoft's native drivers for this. There are plenty of configuration settings behind the curtain especially in the area of the power plans, that directly rely on the chipset drivers for direction on how to function. If you find you need to update, be sure to restart after you update the chipset drivers. And it's not a bad idea to check all of the drivers to make sure you have the latest ones from the manufacturer installed. Don't ever rely on Windows for drivers, not even for laptops, unless you absolutely have to.

Then, go into the power options and make sure both battery and plugged in are set to balanced. Go into the advanced options and make sure that for both battery and plugged in the Min processor power state is 5% (Or if it's set even lower by default, that's fine) and Max is 100%.

Next, go into the BIOS and make sure Intel Speed Shift is disabled and that Intel Speed Step is ENABLED.

Save settings, exit BIOS and check to see if you still see the same behavior. If you do, then it MIGHT have something to do with FL studio IF it is using AVX instructions in the main program or any plugins you might have installed. The system might have settings which automatically offset AVX when on battery but not when plugged in. In that case, while it's not as likely on a laptop, you might check in the BIOS to see if there are any settings for AVX offset.

Thanks for the response. So I tried all of these suggestions but I am still getting the same issue. I tried with a game instead of FL Studio to rule out the AVX offset possibility.
Same thing. CPU package hits 92c (2 of the Pcores stay around 88-90c) immediately after being plugged in. Unplug it and it drops down and hovers between 76-82c. Clicking the battery saver icon drops it even more to around 66-72c.

The only power plan that even exists is the balanced one which it is on. Noting shifts or changes when plugged in, at least not in the UI that I can see, but clearly something behind the scenes is..

[EDIT] Windows 11 has another power menu when you click on the battery icon in the desktop tray. Here it shows the plan as "balanced". It overrides whatever you have that set to and forces balanced where it takes its liberties with temps and power. If I manually set it back to "Best power efficiency" after I plug it in it drops down to ~80... So essentially the old style control panel power plan menu seems redundant and is ignored. I thought it was suspicious when setting my max processor state to 70% mad 0 change in thermals or performance.

Is there some better way to navigate this or to prevent Win11 from forcing a "balanced" power plan when plugging in? I may have to go back to Win10 if I can't sort this.

[Edit 2] So upon opening FL Studio that same battery menu transforms and locks me out of settings forcing a high performance profile... It removes the option entirely to select a different power mode...

 

[Darkbreeze]

Are you SURE you have the MOST recent chipset driver for your specific device installed. Directly from the product page?

 

[_dawn_chorus_]

I believe so? It's been almost a decade since I have used an OEM system. I couldn't find any chipset info in device manager so I tried the Intel Driver and Support Assistant. It showed a BT, WIFI, and Iris XE Graphics upgrade, also some Intel Connectivity suite software. I updated the first 3.
LG Update also only suggested the BT and WIFI drivers.

I think it is something windows 11 is doing. I found I can force a specific power plan per program, so I set FL Studio to power saver, which does indeed kick on power saver upon opening the program. HOWEVER, when I click on the taskbar tray battery icon it still shows "cannot change power plan while in High Performance Mode" but just below says battery saver mode is on...

If I stop FL Studio that same window gives me the ability to change power plans again. However if I select "Best power efficiency" you can see just below it it shows battery saver mode won't come on until 40% battery...
Meanwhile the old school control panel battery option is set to the only available plan, balanced, this whole time.

So one of these menus, or something going on in the background seems to be superseding my selections, or some of these menus are redundant.

That is all while unplugged. Plugging in still ramps up thermals significantly, despite the CPU using the same wattage, clockspeed, etc.
Here are some images:

https://imgur.com/a/mCt5jZd

View: https://imgur.com/a/mCt5jZd

 

[Darkbreeze]

What is the EXACT model and submodel of your laptop? Or service tag/express service tag number?

 

[_dawn_chorus_]

14ZB90Q-G.AAC6U1

Manufactured in Dec 2022.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Yep, that's gonna be a PITA because LG is very unhelpful when it comes to support for any of the laptop or other computer systems, unlike most other OEMs who usually at the least offer some direct, clearly outlined downloads for chipset, network adapters, audio adapters, etc.

LG likes to use these in house "setup" programs that do their own thing and you don't ever really know just what it is it's doing so in truth you're probably just as well off to run through the "Optional updates" in Windows update for making sure the drivers are at least somewhat the latest for that hardware. Unfortunately, in this case, I don't think I can really be much more help than that and if this was just built or purchased in December of 2022 then it should absolutely still be covered under the LG warranty and if you are having this problem as you've outlined I'd recommend making them deal with the problem. Insist on a replacement if they cannot resolve it to your satisfaction. It is your best option right now and I'd do it now, and not wait, because if you wait you might end up having to eat the problem yourself later and you already know it's a problem now.

It's unlikely to resolve itself and you should not have to deal with this on an almost brand new laptop.

 

[_dawn_chorus_]

Yep, that's gonna be a PITA because LG is very unhelpful when it comes to support for any of the laptop or other computer systems, unlike most other OEMs who usually at the least offer some direct, clearly outlined downloads for chipset, network adapters, audio adapters, etc.

LG likes to use these in house "setup" programs that do their own thing and you don't ever really know just what it is it's doing so in truth you're probably just as well off to run through the "Optional updates" in Windows update for making sure the drivers are at least somewhat the latest for that hardware. Unfortunately, in this case, I don't think I can really be much more help than that and if this was just built or purchased in December of 2022 then it should absolutely still be covered under the LG warranty and if you are having this problem as you've outlined I'd recommend making them deal with the problem. Insist on a replacement if they cannot resolve it to your satisfaction. It is your best option right now and I'd do it now, and not wait, because if you wait you might end up having to eat the problem yourself later and you already know it's a problem now.

It's unlikely to resolve itself and you should not have to deal with this on an almost brand new laptop.

That's unfortunate to hear.. I wonder if that is why no matter what I did the laptop would not boot from my Win10 usb when I tried. I did just now find Intel(R) Chipset Device Software V:10.1.19159.8331 in the control panel Uninstall or change a program window. Right clicking it only gives an option to uninstall though.

In your opinion are these even worrisome temps for an Alder lake mobile cpu? I noticed yesterday after my last reply, in HWinfo I was looking at the CPU Enhanced CPU Package temp, but there is another CPU Package temp under the DTS column, it consistently runs around 10-13c lower than what the Enhanced column shows. Looking at the per-core temps under the DTS column I can see the hottest core temp corelates with the DTS CPU package temp and as mentioned is around 10c+ lower than the Enhanced CPU Package temp.

So if the DTS one is more accurate, running at 75-83c under load doesn't seem bad right? It doesn't fix my initial problem, but if it's a non issue then I would call that a solution. The laptop otherwise meets all of my specific wants and I got it on sale for $800 with a 90 day return window so I'd like to keep it, and entering RMA limbo with a massive company does not appeal..

LG does seem to be a nightmare. I tried contacting their laptop support (on their website that appears broken on any device or browser I open it) and get sent to home electronics where a lady twice attempted to send me to the laptop department but I just ended up on an 1hr hold before closing the chat.. not ideal, as you said.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Then ten degree lower temp is Intel spec TJmax. That is the package temp and is by calculation almost always ten degrees cooler for all Intel architectures, mostly. The higher temp, which is the one to be paid attention to, is Tjunction. Tjunction is the ACTUAL temperature AT the core. This is what the system uses for PROCHOT and Thermal trip or any required throttling. Spec for Alder lake is technically 100°C Tjunction, which is where it needs to reach before it will throttle, by spec anyhow.

What I would do is download and install HWinfo. Not any other, JUST HWinfo. Run it and choose the "Sensors only" option and make sure "Summary" is disabled. Leave it open and running and you can keep an eye on it if you wish. Run your programs where you are seeing problems you think, with the unit plugged into power so that it is not running under the "battery" plan. After a while take a look through the HWinfo sensors and there will be section under "CPU Intel Core i7-1260p" (Or something like that) where it shows "Core max" and below that "Core thermal throttling". Check to see if it says "No" all the way across OR if any point it showed "Yes" indicating that the system had to throttle the cores in order to remain within thermal spec. This will tell us something about what is or is not going on in this regard.

 

[_dawn_chorus_]

Then ten degree lower temp is Intel spec TJmax. That is the package temp and is by calculation almost always ten degrees cooler for all Intel architectures, mostly. The higher temp, which is the one to be paid attention to, is Tjunction. Tjunction is the ACTUAL temperature AT the core. This is what the system uses for PROCHOT and Thermal trip or any required throttling. Spec for Alder lake is technically 100°C Tjunction, which is where it needs to reach before it will throttle, by spec anyhow.

What I would do is download and install HWinfo. Not any other, JUST HWinfo. Run it and choose the "Sensors only" option and make sure "Summary" is disabled. Leave it open and running and you can keep an eye on it if you wish. Run your programs where you are seeing problems you think, with the unit plugged into power so that it is not running under the "battery" plan. After a while take a look through the HWinfo sensors and there will be section under "CPU Intel Core i7-1260p" (Or something like that) where it shows "Core max" and below that "Core thermal throttling". Check to see if it says "No" all the way across OR if any point it showed "Yes" indicating that the system had to throttle the cores in order to remain within thermal spec. This will tell us something about what is or is not going on in this regard.

Oh it definitely thermal throttles initially, but it jumps up and down, hitting the ceiling here and there.
I discovered the pre-installed LG Smart Assistant app which I had been using for fan control also is effecting power draw/clock speeds. Setting it to "Low" counterintuitively provides the coolest temps, but thats because it limits the power draw of the CPU. "Normal" actually runs the hottest for some reason, and "High" blasts the fans while maintaining higher power draw and still cools a bit better than "Normal" mode.

Below are 3 screenshots from HWinfo I took while running a loop in FL Studio and moved through fan speed options. The first, with the red bars, was taken last to show the graphs change between fan speeds. The following two are taken while running "Normal" and then "Low" so you can see the change in the HWinfo Current column. There is different throttling happening or something. It says "Core power limit exceeded" on the low profile, which sounds bad but not sure it is.

So LG's software is really dug in, as you mentioned.
I contemplated uninstalling it to see how win11 handled things alone, but thankfully found this reddit comment before doing so:

"i had this problem when i factory reset my 2022 gram 14" -- the included software which was pretty minimal is all gone, so the LG Smart Assistant is missing now. can't adjust fan speed or set different profiles, use Reading Mode, or toggle function key lock/assign function key hotkeys. LG support said to mail in the computer and they can install it (will wipe everything though) and that they can't supply a download for it. "

So that's not great...

I guess ultimately I am fine with it, running the "Low" fan profile handles my FL projects and

[EDIT] : I just discovered a setting exists in FL that forces high performance mode.... facepalm.
I'm still curious what you think about everything else typed above, and whether those temps and behaviors are any real concern, especially if I am running in the low fan mode.

https://imgur.com/a/6MJU9OJ

View: https://imgur.com/a/6MJU9OJ

 

[Darkbreeze]

I mean, I have no answers in this case.

If it were MY machine, ALL the LG software would be gone because I do a full clean install, as I do with EVERY machine, and then I'd install the stock Intel chipset driver software for the baseboard chipset, use a USB wireless adapter or LAN connection to connect to the internet and then allow Windows to show me exactly ALL drivers in the "Optional updates" section of Windows update that it detects as available for it. No machine, ever, should be thermally throttling. It is not designed to have to do that unless there is a problem and if there is a problem it is either because the machien is not adequately designed with cooling that can handle the hardware as put together, or some software is screwing things up or somebody has badly misconfigured something OR you are running AVX instructions of some kind that exceeds what the cooling is capable of handling and need to either configure an AVX offset in the BIOS if the option exists or somehow manually adjust your Windows maximum processor power performance setting in the advanced settings only when you are running that application. Or something along those lines.

Personally, I wouldn't own a machine that did this. I'd return it and tell them it is not able to run within Intel spec because it is throttling and that I want a refund or a replacement unit. But, that's me, and I'm an ass that way.

 

[_dawn_chorus_]

Yeah, I usually do the same thing. I was trying to on this one but glad I saw that guys post because the LG Smart Assistant seems to be the only way to limit it's max charge level to 80%. Also it wouldn't read my windows 10 usb for some reason...

I think I'll just clone it to another M.2 and do a reinstall to see how things run bare bones.
It runs at a cool 55c-65c now with that FL setting off though. If I can figure out the weird drive issue I'll be satisfied.

Anyway thank you for all the time and help. This conversation has been hugely insightful and helpful for me.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Anytime man and sorry I couldn't just be a bit MORE helpful, but sometimes these OEMs kind of tie your hands unless you're willing to go all the way. Sometimes even then to some degree. LOL.