Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament,alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)
On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 12:08:50 -0500, Folk <Folk@folk.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 02:36:35 -0700, Lars Wilsen <spam@someone.else>
>wrote:
>
>
>>Unless you're so good that you can back over people behind you while
>>shooting the node, I'll have to disregard your opinion.
>
>Do you drive your Manta in first person or third person view? If you
>use third person, it's trivial to back over people while shooting,
>since you now have a 360 view of things.
Not nearly so easy as you think. I usually play in third person, and
even when you zoom way out, you have to be looking down to see far
behind you. If you zoom in, you can't see far at all, regardless of
where you're looking. The people I take to be using bots have backed
over me, for instance, while I'm standing at the the tree stand above
the first node on Torlan (iun the trees), while they are starting at
the node and shooting it all the while.
There's also the matter of how quickly they can stop and turn around,
a tenth the distance it seems to take me going at the same speed.
>Although people tried to write aimbot code for alt-flak, it was never
>really successful due to the fact that the projectile follows an arc.
>It was just too difficult to do, so by and large, aimbots are for
>hitscan weapons. So how could one write a cheat for a vehicle which
>doesn't follow a pre-determined path?
Actually, it would be much easier when you are in continual control of
the object/vehicle, rather than trying to predict where the player
will be when the missile arrives and hope his velocity doesn't change.
The manta bot would only have to send every other key event to guide
the vehicle all the way to the target, continually updating the
projected path with each cycle (similar to the way the aimbot directs
the players aim for him). That was why I was thinking it would be
much easier to do. To predict where the projectile is going to land
and when it will intercept the enemy is difficult compared to simply
redirecting the vehicle with every from to target the enemy's current
position. I've also noted predictive aiming - aiming at where I will
be when the vehicle arrives rather than where I am now, but that is
also the same vector equations as firing a projectile, performed every
cycle, so it also isn't a difficult bit of programming.
>>I've also played against players who would to the flying levi trick
>>all of the time, and since they fixed that, some who can get the
>>hellbender to fly (the "flying hb hack"). Cheating is definitely
>>possible.
>
>You're confusing exploits with cheats. The flying levi was fixed in
>the first patch.
Yes, "since they fixed that" was how I already said that the levi bug
was fixed, and I consider a flying hellbender that can be hacked to
fly to be a cheat, not an "exploit". I haven't had to do that to win.
I also wish the game would decrement points for spawn camping. A lot
of the cruddier players like to take a tank near a node and prevent
the other team from even playing. If they aren't shooting a player
with weapons or vulnerable node, and if they have to use an "exploit"
to win, then they should find a game that they're able to play
successfully and play that, instead of preventing me from playing this
game.
>>>I play ONS virtually every night on a hefty assortment of different
>>>servers, and I've been playing since the release of the demo. I
>>>*know* I've seen two botters. I may have seen another, but I'm not
>>>sure. I guess I might have missed one or two that were on my team
>>>(and I couldn't observe them since they weren't shooting at me) but
>>>usually an obvious bot will raise a hue and cry amongst the players,
>>>and again, I've only seen that happen a couple of times.
>>>
>>>No matter what your skill level, you will sometimes play against
>>>people 10 times better than you. It's often easier to think that
>>>person is a bot than to admit you're getting owned so badly.
>>
>>I play most nights as well (Darwin_Saves!), and I still seem to be
>>able to detect manta bots. Again, watch for the tell-tale backing
>>over you ploy. I've backed over a few people accidentially, but never
>>tracked someone up a hill behind me and run them over while shooting
>>the node. If someone does that to you, especially a couple of times
>>in a row, you can feel assured you've spotted a manta bot there.
>
>Put your perspective into third-person view and see how trivially easy
>it is to do what you're describing.
Try spectating once in a while. Again, people have said they're using
a manta bot, I've been tracked and backed over from far to great a
distance not to have had a bot involved, and you can't view far behind
you when also shooting at a node. And again, I've spectated people
climbing the hills around the center node in Arctic Stronghold (the
side cliffs - all the way to the top) and watched people shooting out
the side and front of the manta in successive shots. There is no
question about whether a bot is in use, I was only pointing out that
Epic should do more to stop it or at least to make it difficult.
On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 12:08:50 -0500, Folk <Folk@folk.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 02:36:35 -0700, Lars Wilsen <spam@someone.else>
>wrote:
>
>
>>Unless you're so good that you can back over people behind you while
>>shooting the node, I'll have to disregard your opinion.
>
>Do you drive your Manta in first person or third person view? If you
>use third person, it's trivial to back over people while shooting,
>since you now have a 360 view of things.
Not nearly so easy as you think. I usually play in third person, and
even when you zoom way out, you have to be looking down to see far
behind you. If you zoom in, you can't see far at all, regardless of
where you're looking. The people I take to be using bots have backed
over me, for instance, while I'm standing at the the tree stand above
the first node on Torlan (iun the trees), while they are starting at
the node and shooting it all the while.
There's also the matter of how quickly they can stop and turn around,
a tenth the distance it seems to take me going at the same speed.
>Although people tried to write aimbot code for alt-flak, it was never
>really successful due to the fact that the projectile follows an arc.
>It was just too difficult to do, so by and large, aimbots are for
>hitscan weapons. So how could one write a cheat for a vehicle which
>doesn't follow a pre-determined path?
Actually, it would be much easier when you are in continual control of
the object/vehicle, rather than trying to predict where the player
will be when the missile arrives and hope his velocity doesn't change.
The manta bot would only have to send every other key event to guide
the vehicle all the way to the target, continually updating the
projected path with each cycle (similar to the way the aimbot directs
the players aim for him). That was why I was thinking it would be
much easier to do. To predict where the projectile is going to land
and when it will intercept the enemy is difficult compared to simply
redirecting the vehicle with every from to target the enemy's current
position. I've also noted predictive aiming - aiming at where I will
be when the vehicle arrives rather than where I am now, but that is
also the same vector equations as firing a projectile, performed every
cycle, so it also isn't a difficult bit of programming.
>>I've also played against players who would to the flying levi trick
>>all of the time, and since they fixed that, some who can get the
>>hellbender to fly (the "flying hb hack"). Cheating is definitely
>>possible.
>
>You're confusing exploits with cheats. The flying levi was fixed in
>the first patch.
Yes, "since they fixed that" was how I already said that the levi bug
was fixed, and I consider a flying hellbender that can be hacked to
fly to be a cheat, not an "exploit". I haven't had to do that to win.
I also wish the game would decrement points for spawn camping. A lot
of the cruddier players like to take a tank near a node and prevent
the other team from even playing. If they aren't shooting a player
with weapons or vulnerable node, and if they have to use an "exploit"
to win, then they should find a game that they're able to play
successfully and play that, instead of preventing me from playing this
game.
>>>I play ONS virtually every night on a hefty assortment of different
>>>servers, and I've been playing since the release of the demo. I
>>>*know* I've seen two botters. I may have seen another, but I'm not
>>>sure. I guess I might have missed one or two that were on my team
>>>(and I couldn't observe them since they weren't shooting at me) but
>>>usually an obvious bot will raise a hue and cry amongst the players,
>>>and again, I've only seen that happen a couple of times.
>>>
>>>No matter what your skill level, you will sometimes play against
>>>people 10 times better than you. It's often easier to think that
>>>person is a bot than to admit you're getting owned so badly.
>>
>>I play most nights as well (Darwin_Saves!), and I still seem to be
>>able to detect manta bots. Again, watch for the tell-tale backing
>>over you ploy. I've backed over a few people accidentially, but never
>>tracked someone up a hill behind me and run them over while shooting
>>the node. If someone does that to you, especially a couple of times
>>in a row, you can feel assured you've spotted a manta bot there.
>
>Put your perspective into third-person view and see how trivially easy
>it is to do what you're describing.
Try spectating once in a while. Again, people have said they're using
a manta bot, I've been tracked and backed over from far to great a
distance not to have had a bot involved, and you can't view far behind
you when also shooting at a node. And again, I've spectated people
climbing the hills around the center node in Arctic Stronghold (the
side cliffs - all the way to the top) and watched people shooting out
the side and front of the manta in successive shots. There is no
question about whether a bot is in use, I was only pointing out that
Epic should do more to stop it or at least to make it difficult.
an.2004.12.16.01.22.13.186050@hotmail.com...
I just think that if more 
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