News China warns that it may "react" to "hegemonic" treatment by the U.S. in 'Chip War

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With Chip War stuff I just thought of something the might be important.
China is big. 1.4 billion people? It is probably hard to keep that many people and companies all playing by the rules all the time. Several companies go and do bad things like taking IP and such and the US needs to impose sanctions to all of China, not just that company.

My opinion is since China is lax in their cares for IP rights, China needs to get more regulators for their companies so they play by the rules or at least don't go far enough to warrant US action. Thereby removing sanctions for the rest of the country. They got 1.3999 billion other people who might be able to fill those roles! 👍
 
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Geef said:
With Chip War stuff I just thought of something the might be important.
China is big. 1.4 billion people? It is probably hard to keep that many people and companies all playing by the rules all the time. Several companies go and do bad things like taking IP and such and the US needs to impose sanctions to all of China, not just that company.

My opinion is since China is lax in their cares for IP rights, China needs to get more regulators for their companies so they play by the rules or at least don't go far enough to warrant US action. Thereby removing sanctions for the rest of the country. They got 1.3999 billion other people who might be able to fill those roles! 👍
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That presumes the US is sanctioning all of China because of a few bad companies when it's really because technology is the primary competitive advantage of the US military. Should China reach parity in tech with the West, then the West's advantage is negated, leaving everything on the table. Taiwan, South Korea, Australia, the Middle East, and more.
 
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The military advantage stuff has always and will always be there with technology. China will be behind the US for a while with tech, but as long as their regulators get them to do it right they won't be 'as far' behind. Every bit counts with AI tech.

My opinion is: The world will fall apart because of AI as soon as there is an AI hologram woman like in the movie 'The 6th Day' It will of course fall apart with 50% of the population smiling though. - look it up, short clip will make you laugh. 🤣
 
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China's ambassador in the Netherlands calls for enhanced dialogue between China and the European Union.

China warns that it may "react" to "hegemonic" treatment by the U.S. in 'Chip War : Read more
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The hegemony they complain about is true, but it's a democratic "western" one and not an authoritarian led hegemony which is what, for example, an emerging counter hegemony such as BRICS would likely tolerate/impose. China has many legitimate complaints, but the point as to why the US is withholding cutting edge tech for AI development still stands. AI has the potential to be extremely powerful not just for military uses and authoritarian governments can do whatever they like without any real accountability. We've seen this already with the Chinese surveillance state. There's no way a country that favors a democratic approach would let an ideologically opposing country, using cutting edge technology sourced from its democratically fostered companies, gain an insurmountable lead in AI. Also China would attempt to steal the IP whether we gave it to them willingly or not. Whether that's intentional or not doesn't matter. It's what happens. If they want to trade high tech, they have to show they're trustworthy partners. We're a long way from reaching that point diplomatically and the gulf widens every day. Hopefully they don't do something desperate like invade Taiwan. I think that's the biggest threat here for sure.
 
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DavidMV said:
This means the US actions actually are working despite what the Chinese media tries to push. Good!!!
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except the end result will be counter-intuitive and develop chinese fabs. tell me good again in about 10 years. selling lithography machines and gpus to china keeps them dependent. this forces them to become independent. if the US was serious about this, they would outmatch the $200 Billion USD Chinese chip investments and not $50 drop in a bucket US ASML investments. The US should be putting Trillions into US chip fabs. Cutting edge is the only way to stay ahead, not by limiting others.
 
purpleduggy said:
except the end result will be counter-intuitive and develop chinese fabs. tell me good again in about 10 years. selling lithography machines and gpus to china keeps them dependent. this forces them to become independent.
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That's the point of sanctions, it doesn't stop them, just delays their progress.
 
China is like apple. Work with suppliers, learn from them, develop the ip in-house, ditch the supplier, make them go out of business. Same will happen to countries doing business with China. The moment they get into any conflict is when the world will realize they are too dependent on China, and need to give in to their demands. Same thing happened during covid as well.
 
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JamesJones44 said:
Bingo. The PR articles can say what they like, but in truth the Chinese economy is actually in bad shape. So bad it looks like a government bailout similar to the one the US did in 2008 is coming.
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It looks worse actually. They are facing their first potential great depression. The local government debts are trillions in debt. This is more than all the fed chinese govt. And unregulated banks are collapsing left and right. Also, all the biggest building contractors are all going belly up because of debt to assets ratio issues.
 
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Under the agreement the EU can't sell them fab equipment. The technology came from multiple countries. And it would work against Europe's interest to do so for multiple reasons.

They will be polite but obey the agreements for the technology owned by multiple nations. If any one of them pulls licensing rights the whole process for making lithography machines stops. Lest they face damaging sanctions from other countries with the rights.
 
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sivaseemakurthi said:
China is like apple. Work with suppliers, learn from them, develop the ip in-house, ditch the supplier, make them go out of business. Same will happen to countries doing business with China. The moment they get into any conflict is when the world will realize they are too dependent on China, and need to give in to their demands. Same thing happened during covid as well.
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Agreed, China is buying tens of billions worth of Fab equipment per year and tens of billions more to R&D. China is already putting pressure on 16nm and higher chips and sooner or later 7nm in a year or 2.
 
peachpuff said:
That's the point of sanctions, it doesn't stop them, just delays their progress.
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how does it delay progress if the sanction forces them to commit to developing their own? selling to them delays progress on their independence. there is this perceived idea that if they can't get access to gpus then they can't clone them, they already have access to all of them, its the number of them (millions I'd guess) and the price that is the issue. you need very few GPUs or lithography machines to clone them and the tech if you really commit to that plan if cloning. all this does is incentivizes their independence. if the gpus were cheaper to buy there would be no need to create their own. it is more dangerous to the US to have an independent semiconductor industry in China than letting them buy GPUs.
 
digitalgriffin said:
It looks worse actually. They are facing their first potential great depression. The local government debts are trillions in debt. This is more than all the fed chinese govt. And unregulated banks are collapsing left and right. Also, all the biggest building contractors are all going belly up because of debt to assets ratio issues.
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we're only now seeing the consequences of what happened 4 years ago. thousands of factories and businesses have shut down worldwide the last year. there just isn't any demand for all items like there was in 2018. Sure some products will always be in demand but many others are way down. All the numbers on online shopping sites are down, and so the factories are scaling back since the West isn't buying as much as we did before.
 
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purpleduggy said:
how does it delay progress if the sanction forces them to commit to developing their own? selling to them delays progress on their independence. there is this perceived idea that if they can't get access to gpus then they can't clone them, they already have access to all of them, its the number of them (millions I'd guess) and the price that is the issue. you need very few GPUs or lithography machines to clone them and the tech if you really commit to that plan if cloning. all this does is incentivizes their independence. if the gpus were cheaper to buy there would be no need to create their own. it is more dangerous to the US to have an independent semiconductor industry in China than letting them buy GPUs.
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Because developing these machines is hard. We can infer this because China already has machines in hand from before the sanctions, and even with a physical device to reverse engineer, they are still unable to make their own. How much hard is it to develop the next step without a direct example in hand?
 
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