News Chinese government shifts focus from x86 and Arm CPUs, promoting the adoption of RISC-V chips

[Admin]

Chinese government will encourage domestic chip developers to design processors based on the RISC-V ISA.

Chinese government shifts focus from x86 and Arm CPUs, promoting the adoption of RISC-V chips : Read more

 

[bit_user]

Arm and x86 are supported by a wide range of operating systems and programs, unlike RISC-V, which can boast limited compatibility with software.

I'm pretty sure that, as with the hardware situation, they also don't want to depend on software they don't control. So, that mostly nullifies the concerns about compatibility with legacy software. For everything else, there are emulators that should work well enough.

if someone attempts to build AI processors based on RISC-V, they will have to create an ecosystem like Nvidia's CUDA, which will be particularly hard as it took over a decade to make.

No, you don't need the entirety of CUDA to accelerate AI. Frameworks like PyTorch and Tensorflow already support several different hardware backends and rely on much less functionality than the totality of CUDA.


Overall, I think this was very predictable and actually a lot better for everyone than if they'd thrown their weight behind Loongarch. This way, at least there's still room for collaboration and code compatibility between Chinese systems and western ones.

 

[ekio]

Well, that's the smartest way to go.

RISC-V is the obvious choice for technological freedom, advanced software support, and even for potential chip efficiency.

 

[jackt]

Riscv is well supported by Linux, and thats more than enough.

 

[blitz120]

No, you don't need the entirety of CUDA to accelerate AI. Frameworks like PyTorch and Tensorflow already support several different hardware backends and rely on much less functionality than the totality of CUDA.

I'd also add that there's separate work underway to implement CUDA on RISC-V:
https://github.com/vortexgpgpu/vortex_tutorials

 

[bit_user]

I'd also add that there's separate work underway to implement CUDA on RISC-V:
https://github.com/vortexgpgpu/vortex_tutorials

FWIW, Think-Silicon (now owned by Applied Materials) announced embedded GPUs based on RISC-V ISA almost 3 years ago:

Think Silicon NEOX RISC-V GPU offers 3D graphics or AI acceleration - CNX Software

Think Silicon NEOX GPU family with models optimized for graphics (NEOX|G) or artificial intelligence (NEOX|A) is based on the RISC-V RV64C ISA instruction

www.cnx-software.com

 

[nookoool]

Eventual wide usage on the server side won't be in doubt with linux and porting over of development tools. The trillion dollar question is will anything be able to dethrone win/x86 on desktop in china or elsewhere

 

[bit_user]

Eventual wide usage on the server side won't be in doubt with linux and porting over of development tools.

Development tools have been there for a while. I guess things like profiling and performance counters are still in early days

The trillion dollar question is will anything be able to dethrone win/x86 on desktop in china or elsewhere

Maybe Arm could get there first:

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...ricing-starts-at-usd200-for-the-8gb-ram-model
​

Also, Nvidia is partnering with Mediatek on Arm PCs. We should learn more, later this year. They announced one product that sounds fairly impressive (although rather on the expensive side, IMO):

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...sd3-000-to-bring-1-pflops-of-performance-home
​

 

[TerryLaze]

Maybe Arm could get there first:

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...ricing-starts-at-usd200-for-the-8gb-ram-model

​

With that logic, intel released x86 smartphones in 2012....tremble in fear arm, your days are counted....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_RAZR_i

You people have to get that there is no throne, risc and x86 have existed together since the 80ies with companies using whatever is best suited for any job. It has always been and it will always be that there will be things better suited for risc and others better for x86.​

 

[bit_user]

You people have to get that there is no throne, risc and x86 have existed together since the 80ies

But there haven't been recent examples of an ARM-based motherboard in a PC form factor, like the Radxa one I linked. Yes, you can find a couple (Firefly and LattePanda) that have SoMs with a host board, but those are more for industrial/embedded applications, whereas the Radxa seems aimed more at the AI PC market (indeed, they even have an AI PC kit option).

In my other example is a powerful mini AI PC made by a pair of companies who have also announced plans to deliver a Windows-on-ARM solution. If it's anywhere near as powerful as their DIGITS box, it should be interesting.

We haven't seen examples like these, before. That's what's changed.

 

[TerryLaze]

But there haven't been recent examples of an ARM-based motherboard in a PC form factor, like the Radxa one I linked. Yes, you can find a couple (Firefly and LattePanda) that have SoMs with a host board, but those are more for industrial/embedded applications, whereas the Radxa seems aimed more at the AI PC market (indeed, they even have an AI PC kit option).

In my other example is a powerful mini AI PC made by a pair of companies who have also announced plans to deliver a Windows-on-ARM solution. If it's anywhere near as powerful as their DIGITS box, it should be interesting.

We haven't seen examples like these, before. That's what's changed.

What's your point with all of this?!
That people with an x86 based PC need a second one just for AI?
How is that going to dethrone or do anything to x86?
I don't get your logic here.

 

[bit_user]

What's your point with all of this?!

That people are starting to make moves on parts of the desktop market, using ARM-based systems.

In order for x86 to be "dethroned", there first need to be comparable systems based on other ISAs. This is the first step towards that. I didn't say it's a done deal, just that maybe Arm would do it first, assuming it happens.

That people with an x86 based PC need a second one just for AI?

Use of the term "AI PC" was merely to reflect the fact that it has current specs. Feel free to ignore the term, if you want.

How is that going to dethrone or do anything to x86?

I can't predict the future. I'm just watching who seems to be making relevant moves.

 

[Ful4n1t0c0sme]

Chinese government will encourage domestic chip developers to design processors based on the RISC-V ISA.

Chinese government shifts focus from x86 and Arm CPUs, promoting the adoption of RISC-V chips : Read more

What a sick fixation you have with what China does...